Funky Soul

[Spacehopper]

anyway im gonna go now and drive my van doing some work listening to the funky/gospel discs greg and kev gave me at the weekend...dont suppose i'll like em all but id rather listen to them than an oldies disc from asda!!

dean

[Guest BAKUNIN]

It is all music yes, but is it all soul music? I'm not so sure

If it was all soul music there wouldn't be a funk scene surely? I did ask before but do they play hours of northern soul at funk do's? Also, do they play the kind of records that are being played at soul do's now? Serious question as I am really interested

I'm against pigeon holing as much as anyone, a good record is a good record no matter when it was made. Whether you like a record or not really doesn't matter - if the dance floor is full then it's job done in my book. I have never once said what should or should not get played. All I've said is a lot of it is just not good enough (for me) which is every bit as valid as saying it is good enough surely?

What I do find hard to understand though is why these tunes weren't played years ago? Could it be that they weren't considered good enough compared to all the other tunes that were being discovered at the time? If they weren't good enough then what makes them good enough now?

I really don't think it's a case of people not wanting to hear something new or that they are happy to stay stuck in the past. Jeez, hearing new stuff is what it's all about for me and almost everyone I know. It's more that the records fall way short of the high standards and quality of what's gone before.

Good post this having read most of this thread.Each to his own and all that but I personally have not heard any stand-out so-called "funk" record yet in the same way I have with the "other stuff"

Could it possibly be that a lot of the newly played funk records that are popping up and can be classified as underplayed are precisely that because they were never popular in the first place.

Get the impression that people are playing stuff just for the sake of it being rare, underplayed,different whatever you like to call it but that doesnt make them good does it?

Anyway just an observation.

[Jumpinjoan]

anyway im gonna go now and drive my van doing some work listening to the funky/gospel discs greg and kev gave me at the weekend...dont suppose i'll like em all but id rather listen to them than an oldies disc from asda!!

dean

Good for you but why make a comparison to pop / blue eyed / Asda soul which is not what I am talking about. Far from it

As for records growing on you (like you mentioned in your previous post) I can honestly say that isn't how it is for me. I hear a record and I either like it or I don't.

As entertaining and as interesting as these threads are, they never change things in the real 'soul' world so I guess the answer is to just avoid venues playing the stuff you don't want to hear. All I know is if this is the furture of the scene then it's not for me. Thankfully (I hope) there will be enough unimaginative and narrow minded venues around to ensure there is at least somewhere to go that plays the kind of unexciting tunes that I prefer

[manus]

well like a lot of you started reading and then skimming through this thread...my thoughts and opinions not aimed at anyone in particuliar!!

i wonder is it because we are getting on a bit or sat at a pc that we get so narrow minded sometimes...

i never went to wigan or mecca but some of those tunes now classed as northern oldies were in no way the type of soul that dave godin named northern....some were funky edged even then...some garage bands and some blatant teen pop...

ive been going to 'northern' nites since the 80s and dont like it all....who does?...if they play funky edged at a northern nite whats the problem as long as its not all night....go and chat vinyl,have a drink or a smoke if you do...i have to when they play disco...i mean 70s and modern! ;-)...but i dont moan about it..i cant dance to the slower 70s funk but the uptempo stuff..bring it on

regarding george...blew the roof off go go children..(.lots of younger people there though!!!) but not all.. plenty soulies too...played a few northern tunes and even 60s motown although yes mainly funky stuff...ARSE KICKIN UPTEMPO STUFF THAT MADE YOU DANCE!!!!

yes go go children is not a northern soul night...although the majority are soul fans...and along with rnb and funky stuff theres lots of northern played...check this month playlists!.....guests have inc...johnny beggs who played lots of latin...pete tebbit who played some big mod numbers...warren boogaloo,des parker,trowbridge matt,sean chapman,pete lyster,dr pickles,mick lloyd and more who are all djs on the northern scene...my point is the playing of something different is nothing new and we have people who are oldies fans come down and dance and have a good time....despite they wide range of music...it can be done

the reason they are not posting on ss?....despite having a massive ammount of members and being the busiest soul forum....most people out roll their eyes whenever i mention soulsource...and thats not just at go go children either...

dean

I agree in terms of it being nothing new as we were having the same discussions 37/38 years ago involving the merits of Snoopy Dean, Bobby Franklin, Prince George , Lou Edwards and all - It'll never be over for sure lol

Cheers

Manus

[Swifty]

Bit like me and 3 of my mates going to the pub ! We all have one thing in common that we all like going to the pub.

When in the pub, I drink Lager , Rob drinks Cider , Dave drinks Bitter , Mark drinks Guiness etc.

Now Dave hates lager & Guiness but will sometimes have a Cider instead of Bitter,

Rob will drink Cider and sometimes Lager,

Mark will only drink Guiness,

Me , I like it all but not all of the time.

Bit like Soul music , eh!

Swifty (Hic!)

I also like Red Wine

[Guest rodw]

Here's a few funky soul records that float my boat.....

Bill Coday - Find a fool bump his head

Eddie Parker - Body chains

Ronnie North - I've gotta hear it from you

Ebonystic - Ain't it good to you

Spiritual Four - If you think god is dead

Johnny Williams - Breaking point

Denise LaSalle - Do me right

Ann Sexton - I still love you

Rising Sun - Good loving

Master Keys - I done got on the right road

Claude & Hank Carbo - Fox in a mini skirt

Bobby Patterson - Right on Jody

Neal Kimble - If it was'nt for the children

Tommy Tucker - That's how much

Little Milton - Grits ain't groceries

Al Danner- You are my happiness

Bobby Byrd - Lost in the crowd

Clarence Murray - Let's get on with it

Buddy Lamp - Devil's gonna get you

Vikki Styles - The tears won't stop falling

Bobby Bland - Yum Yum Tree

Delegates Of Soul - I'll come running back

Charles Spurling - Let me be your steppin soul

Eddie Jackson - Memories of a dream

Kool Blues - I'm gonna keep on loving you

Mariann - Motivation

Shirley Caeser - Stand the storm

Rex Garvin - You don't need no help

Ann Peebles - 99lbs

Buddy Guy - Buddy's Groove

Darondo Pulliam - How I got over

I would put all these in the funky soul catagory......

Just a very small example of some funky soul tunes from various periods of our scene....

[Mike]

Just a very small example of some funky soul tunes from various periods of our scene....

rod

can you stop quoting previous list posts by your self

no real need and just makes scrolling thru posts a pain

if you want to highlight your own past posts

just link to the the top right number in every post

eg

[Guest rodw]

Cheers Mike....

[Dylan]

you responded quoting a post from Pete S that was talking about how he couldn't move copies of the Specials and Pete made no reference to the Innersouls 45 ever. Not trying to split hairs, but there was no way anyone could have figured that out from your post... Anyways, I agree the innersouls "thoughts" is killer, I regretted not buying it when you were selling it. I finally got a copy recently, the only clean one I've ever seen.

in England is "dirge" spelled differently than in the US? Also, does it mean something totally different than it does in the US? Thanks.

I thought pete coulndn't move the mystics I must have read it wrong......

[Guest Bearsy]

well like a lot of you started reading and then skimming through this thread...my thoughts and opinions not aimed at anyone in particuliar!!

i wonder is it because we are getting on a bit or sat at a pc that we get so narrow minded sometimes...

i never went to wigan or mecca but some of those tunes now classed as northern oldies were in no way the type of soul that dave godin named northern....some were funky edged even then...some garage bands and some blatant teen pop...

ive been going to 'northern' nites since the 80s and dont like it all....who does?...if they play funky edged at a northern nite whats the problem as long as its not all night....go and chat vinyl,have a drink or a smoke if you do...i have to when they play disco...i mean 70s and modern! ;-)...but i dont moan about it..i cant dance to the slower 70s funk but the uptempo stuff..bring it on

regarding george...blew the roof off go go children..(.lots of younger people there though!!!) but not all.. plenty soulies too...played a few northern tunes and even 60s motown although yes mainly funky stuff...ARSE KICKIN UPTEMPO STUFF THAT MADE YOU DANCE!!!!

yes go go children is not a northern soul night...although the majority are soul fans...and along with rnb and funky stuff theres lots of northern played...check this month playlists!.....guests have inc...johnny beggs who played lots of latin...pete tebbit who played some big mod numbers...warren boogaloo,des parker,trowbridge matt,sean chapman,pete lyster,dr pickles,mick lloyd and more who are all djs on the northern scene...my point is the playing of something different is nothing new and we have people who are oldies fans come down and dance and have a good time....despite they wide range of music...it can be done

the reason they are not posting on ss?....despite having a massive ammount of members and being the busiest soul forum....most people out roll their eyes whenever i mention soulsource...and thats not just at go go children either...

dean

As Dr Pickles even noticed i danced to some RnB on Saturday honestly i wasnt i was a bit drunk trying to get to the bar again

i have heard a lot of the stuff played at Go Go on Saturday played at many nights advertised as Soul Nights so maybe your not a Northern Soul night but by golly it was all bloody great dance music even the RnB i dont like imho just how a Soul night shoul be

[Guest Bearsy]

Bit like me and 3 of my mates going to the pub ! We all have one thing in common that we all like going to the pub.

When in the pub, I drink Lager , Rob drinks Cider , Dave drinks Bitter , Mark drinks Guiness etc.

Now Dave hates lager & Guiness but will sometimes have a Cider instead of Bitter,

Rob will drink Cider and sometimes Lager,

Mark will only drink Guiness,

Me , I like it all but not all of the time.

Bit like Soul music , eh!

Swifty (Hic!)

I also like Red Wine

but if you put them all in 1 glass i prefer shandy meself

[Garethx]

A version of this debate was going on thirty years ago when I first started going out. Then it was between varying combinations of Modern fans, Oldies fans, 60s Newies fans and probably a few more factions besides.

Each individual probably has their own unique vision of what constitutes the ideal Northern Soul record but there really never has been a definitive answer to that question. Maybe that's what has contributed to the scene's longevity. There is no wrong answer.

[Spacehopper]

Good for you but why make a comparison to pop / blue eyed / Asda soul which is not what I am talking about. Far from it

As for records growing on you (like you mentioned in your previous post) I can honestly say that isn't how it is for me. I hear a record and I either like it or I don't.

As entertaining and as interesting as these threads are, they never change things in the real 'soul' world so I guess the answer is to just avoid venues playing the stuff you don't want to hear. All I know is if this is the furture of the scene then it's not for me. Thankfully (I hope) there will be enough unimaginative and narrow minded venues around to ensure there is at least somewhere to go that plays the kind of unexciting tunes that I prefer

maybe you misunderstand me or maybe i didnt write it very well!.....my point was soul clubs pre wigan were not playing a lot of blue eyed soul especially the poppy side of it but a few years down the line it was played at wigan and is now called northern soul...some good and some bad...just like the funky stuff and rnb played now....i dont think the future of the scene is all funk....and keeping away from venues that play a little can restict you from having some great nites.....there were people i know at go go for the first time saturday who went to wigan and i quote'dont like rnb and that funky stuff' but as they are friends came and gave it ago and loved it...friends or not!...they didnt love every tune but still had a great nite...trust me i wouldnt want to go to a nite and hear funk all night...but to be honest anymore that straight northern all night...mix it up...northern classics,underplayed,rnb,latin,funky edged..as long as it makes most of the club dance it cant be bad..can it?

dean

[Guest rodw]

You see Rod this is where this thread just becomes a posting point for people's very diverse personal taste and knowledge. As Marc and others says one man's garbage another man's top want.

I'd say the Delegates of Soul isn't really funky at all, and by the way is a piss poor version of a great record - Charles Mintz singing the same tune IS an awesome funky edged dancer.

But I'd also agree with Gareth S why are we trying to pidgeon hole these records into micro-genres all the time?

Steve

Perhaps I should have chosen Charles Mintz's version then as it's his 64th Birthday today....both good versions in my book tho Steve.....

[Spacehopper]

and as for underplayed being describes as...records played just to be different because if it was good it would have been played before...most northern tunes were flops in the 60s but we all know (unlike those outside the scene) that it doesnt mean they are not great tunes...better in fact than most of those huge motown and stax soul hits .....as i said if in the early 70s record diggers in the states did overlook them for all the big wigan monsters that are now classic oldies...doesnt mean they were crap ..just they were not as good as tomangoes etc...but does that mean 30 years later you still just wanna hear tomangoes when you go out week after week?

my desert island discs would probably be mainly big oldies...i admit that...but going out every weekend i wanna hear what other mainly 60s american black music tunes are out there too

[Pete S]

Percy Millem "Call On Me" Goldwax, Sam Dees "Lonely For You Baby" SSS Int., Art Freeman "Slippiong Around" Fame...just to name three classic Southern Soul tunes I would always enjoy hearing at an allnighter. But Then again I havent got a clue anyway LOL

I'm talking about it in the old definition, slow ballad soul. You knew that.

[Jumpinjoan]

maybe you misunderstand me or maybe i didnt write it very well!.....my point was soul clubs pre wigan were not playing a lot of blue eyed soul especially the poppy side of it but a few years down the line it was played at wigan and is now called northern soul...some good and some bad...just like the funky stuff and rnb played now....i dont think the future of the scene is all funk....and keeping away from venues that play a little can restict you from having some great nites.....there were people i know at go go for the first time saturday who went to wigan and i quote'dont like rnb and that funky stuff' but as they are friends came and gave it ago and loved it...friends or not!...they didnt love every tune but still had a great nite...trust me i wouldnt want to go to a nite and hear funk all night...but to be honest anymore that straight northern all night...mix it up...northern classics,underplayed,rnb,latin,funky edged..as long as it makes most of the club dance it cant be bad..can it?

dean

I consider myself pretty easy going (a lot more so than some of my mates that's for sure lol) and a few tracks here and there (even every hour) is no problem at all. There's getting to be more and more of it though and the quality really isn't good enough (for me). If the dance floor is busy it's job done - but it usually isn't and there lies the problem.

[Pete S]

as far as why werent they played before...tastes change for a start....why wasnt some of the blue eyed soul at wigan played at the torch or wheel?..

Are you kidding, it was, in just as big a quantity at Wigan, do a bit of reasearch! For a start, one of the biggest record ever, You're Ready Now - FRankie Valli.

[Jumpinjoan]

but does that mean 30 years later you still just wanna hear tomangoes when you go out week after week?

As opposed to something that isn't as good? Absolutely!

[Kev Cane]

I consider myself pretty easy going (a lot more so than some of my mates that's for sure lol) and a few tracks here and there (even every hour) is no problem at all. There's getting to be more and more of it though and the quality really isn't good enough (for me). If the dance floor is busy it's job done - but it usually isn't and there lies the problem.

Agree Joan, I think someones already touched on it (Gareth I think) but, play a record cos its bloody good, not because its funk or rare or r&B cos thats seen to be hip or cutting edge or the supposed future and answer to everything, we,ve all heard DJ,s play a record for the sake of it cos its rare for rares sake and its been a heap of shite. Theres loads of quality out there in all genres, quality being the buzz word instead of being obsessed with whats the supposedly trendy way to go.

Kev

[Spacehopper]

Are you kidding, it was, in just as big a quantity at Wigan, do a bit of reasearch! For a start, one of the biggest record ever, You're Ready Now - FRankie Valli.

i did say 'some' of the blue eyed soul pete...ofcourse there was some good blue eyed soul played at the 60s clubs but im sure some of those early jocks overlooked tunes that would later make their way onto wigan playlists.....as im always hearing wigan was great in the early days then not so good in the middle with all the pop being played before being rescued at the end by searling etc...but maybe im wrong either way i dont want to take yet another thread off corse!!

[Spacehopper]

Agree Joan, I think someones already touched on it (Gareth I think) but, play a record cos its bloody good, not because its funk or rare or r&B cos thats seen to be hip or cutting edge or the supposed future and answer to everything, we,ve all heard DJ,s play a record for the sake of it cos its rare for rares sake and its been a heap of shite. Theres loads of quality out there in all genres, quality being the buzz word instead of being obsessed with whats the supposedly trendy way to go.

Kev

but i wasnt saying that...i would never play a record i didnt like...or because its rare.......but i dont wanna hear and wouldnt play my top 100 every time i go out...there are oldies i dont like as much as tomangoes but havnt heard played out for ages so would be more of a buzz to me on the dancefloor when i hear the intro...than oh its tomangoes again...but again we digress...again

[Guest john s]

Agree Joan, I think someones already touched on it (Gareth I think) but, play a record cos its bloody good, not because its funk or rare or r&B cos thats seen to be hip or cutting edge or the supposed future and answer to everything, we,ve all heard DJ,s play a record for the sake of it cos its rare for rares sake and its been a heap of shite. Theres loads of quality out there in all genres, quality being the buzz word instead of being obsessed with whats the supposedly trendy way to go.

Kev

Very fair point, and one I agree with completely.

I suppose the only thing is, who decides if a record is bloody good or a heap of shite?

I'd imagine there's a fairly wide range of opinions about that!

[NEV]

Eyup Nev

I get that bit, self-defined funk bands made funk records by and large. I also get that 'northern' isn't a genre as such. 'Funky soul' bands? Pointless, semantics.

Scene-wise, just records which, in the final analysis, will be good enough or not to people on it who'll vote with their feet. The yardstick that most will use will be what's gone before; some of which had a 'funky-edge' and a bigger proportion of which didn't. If the records posted on this thread are representative of 'funky soul' as some kind of separate entity or [quasi] genre (if pedantry is your thing) - and I suspect they're not but don't really know enough to decide for myself, or if they are reflective of the direction that most think the 'scene' should or want it to go in then I'll get me coat.

Alternatively, if its about evolution and things which, for whatever reason, fit the broad 'bill' as established over however many years, that's got to be a good thing hasn't it? Surely there's a place for records from across the spectrum; always has been so why would that suddenly change? What seems to happen at times can be a bit confusing at times though for sure: on the one hand 'we've always had it, what's the problem', and on the other it's 'upfront' and 'different'.

For me, tthe very best stuff has bits of both i.e. something recognisable and familiar but different and fresh at the same time. Some are just too different to my ears, that's all.

Hi Phil

I know this topic can and will roll on ,as it is probably the most interesting debatable subject on here at the moment

Why ? because there are a lot of people on the scene ,still with the passion to want to keep it fresh !

Regarding the issue of Funky soul ....there are unquestionably good examples as there are also bad ,but that goes across the board for all genres that have been included on this crazy scene .

It is all about which venue your at ,as to how much so called funky soul your likey to hear ..or actually want to be subject to .

But suffice to say ..a good dj or experienced dj can fit some good examples of funky soul into a regular set and achieve a good reaction from an otherwise "Northern soul " crowd or dare i say a rare soul crowd.

You yourself have played Otto & the sensations -girl we can make it ...i would wager nobody booed you or threw a pint at the stage .lol

But without straying too far off the path ,let me take you to a set played by John Parker at York soul club(sure he won't mind ) and see /hear John mix up a set that includes records like Patrinell staten ..the Camaros ....George Lemons ..Mr Lucky and throw in a couple of funk tunes , Angela Davis -my love is so strong ..and Rufus Wood -Before 2001 and non other than the brillaint I.j Harris !

The interesting thing is that the floor does'nt empty when the funky stuff comes into play .

So for me it is and always has been about how it's executed .

To answer another question which is ...how come none of these records were being played 20-30 yrs back ?

Summising they were known records ...here is a post i clipped ( in full) from a man who needs no introduction ,its not relating to a funk record but i think it does sum up attitudes and hopefully goes a way to explain the answer

• Neckender quote
  

Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:13 PM

re. williams cummings; I bought my first copy from soul bowl from his £1 special page in 1975. Tim Ash also bought a copy from the £1 specials around the same same time. Soul bowl originally had it priced at £4 on his rarities page in 1974 but probably couldn't sell it and like many records ended up on the £1 special page. At the same period I also bought the zeke & soul setters for a £1 (thanks again soulbowl)

I can't say that I ever saw many other copies for sale, on lists or at venues, so my guess is that it was and always has been rare.

You have to remember that back in the 7ts most collectors were not chasing odd-ball label obscurities, so you didn't have a great deal of competition if you wanted to buy things like william cummings. Many collectors,would see william cummings as being too left field; not strictly Northern and certainly not considered for public consumption at a club.

[Guest Bearsy]

Hi Phil

I know this topic can and will roll on ,as it is probably the most interesting debatable subject on here at the moment

Why ? because there are a lot of people on the scene ,still with the passion to want to keep it fresh !

Regarding the issue of Funky soul ....there are unquestionably good examples as there are also bad ,but that goes across the board for all genres that have been included on this crazy scene .

It is all about which venue your at ,as to how much so called funky soul your likey to hear ..or actually want to be subject to .

But suffice to say ..a good dj or experienced dj can fit some good examples of funky soul into a regular set and achieve a good reaction from an otherwise "Northern soul " crowd or dare i say a rare soul crowd.

You yourself have played Otto & the sensations -girl we can make it ...i would wager nobody booed you or threw a pint at the stage .lol

But without straying too far off the path ,let me take you to a set played by John Parker at York soul club(sure he won't mind ) and see /hear John mix up a set that includes records like Patrinell staten ..the Camaros ....George Lemons ..Mr Lucky and throw in a couple of funk tunes , Angela Davis -my love is so strong ..and Rufus Wood -Before 2001 and non other than the brillaint I.j Harris !

The interesting thing is that the floor does'nt empty when the funky stuff comes into play .

So for me it is and always has been about how it's executed .

To answer another question which is ...how come none of these records were being played 20-30 yrs back ?

Summising they were known records ...here is a post i clipped ( in full) from a man who needs no introduction ,its not relating to a funk record but i think it does sum up attitudes and hopefully goes a way to explain the answer

• Neckender quote
  

Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:13 PM

re. williams cummings; I bought my first copy from soul bowl from his £1 special page in 1975. Tim Ash also bought a copy from the £1 specials around the same same time. Soul bowl originally had it priced at £4 on his rarities page in 1974 but probably couldn't sell it and like many records ended up on the £1 special page. At the same period I also bought the zeke & soul setters for a £1 (thanks again soulbowl)

I can't say that I ever saw many other copies for sale, on lists or at venues, so my guess is that it was and always has been rare.

You have to remember that back in the 7ts most collectors were not chasing odd-ball label obscurities, so you didn't have a great deal of competition if you wanted to buy things like william cummings. Many collectors,would see william cummings as being too left field; not strictly Northern and certainly not considered for public consumption at a club.

what would he know :lol:

Some people buy records cos they love them wehter they be an indemand tune at the moment cos it might be new to them or a god damn great oldie, a cheapie a rare one, to me it matters not i just want what i want and if i can find and afford i will own, there is also the point that a lot of djs like to play lets call them genres of tunes in 2s 3s 4s 5s etc so to do that then you would need at least a few to make a set flow along and as long as the dj beleieves in them then surely the promoters and paying soulies will probably define if said dj gets many more dj spots, there is plenty of kak played from all genres played on the scene as well as gooduns so a bit of everything in moderation cant be all bad can it, except out and out funkak of course

[Marc Forrest]

I'm talking about it in the old definition, slow ballad soul. You knew that.

No Pete, sorry to have miss interpret you in that case. Must admit I didnt knew that "old definition" at all. Knowing, having and loving so many deep and slow tunes form up north, east coast, west coast I really never associated or tagged slow, deep Soul as Southern Soul. Hence my missunderstanding.

[Stevie T]

easy really , put on flyers "funky soul" then i will not turn up , job done !

[MrsWoodsrules]

I personally love sharon redd, but then again around the time you enjoyed colin curtis I was a young street dancing kiddo ;) would love to know where in Berlin colin played early eighties though, it wouldnt happen to have been at a club called Dschungel ?

Hi Mark, think I mislead you a bit mate, Berlin (behind Spin Inn Records in Manchester) was a club.

Great music, more Latin jazz in those days to be honest.

Aid

[Marc Forrest]

Hi Mark, think I mislead you a bit mate, Berlin (behind Spin Inn Records in Manchester) was a club.

Great music, more Latin jazz in those days to be honest.

Aid

cheers aid, no problem. as I said earlier...proper name for a club ;)

[Jumpinjoan]

After Lance Hill's version of Make My Love I can't help hearing a C&W influence to the tune

Ever wish you'd never heard something?

[MrsWoodsrules]

cheers aid, no problem. as I said earlier...proper name for a club ;)

She died of AIDS how sad & tragic is that, she was also in a big hit sitcom in the 70s in the U.S. called 'Rhoda'.

Aid

[MrsWoodsrules]

Funky edged soul, I'm not very good at these definitions, does Donald Byrd Dominos fit the bill?

Or is that jazzy/edged soul? Whatever that is.

Aid.

[Geeselad]

anyway im gonna go now and drive my van doing some work listening to the funky/gospel discs greg and kev gave me at the weekend...dont suppose i'll like em all but id rather listen to them than an oldies disc from asda!!

dean

I just wrote a speil for the Change Anniversary CD making exactly that piont, the whole piont of Northern compred top so many othger scene's is that its live or alive, were not Teds and never will be, there's a long history of Funky sounds being played, many are classic top 500 oldies. If you'd played Torch sounds to a regular from the the Scene club or Brazennose street you'd probably get the same reaction as many moaning about the changing style of NS inb the 21st century.

[Pete S]

No Pete, sorry to have miss interpret you in that case. Must admit I didnt knew that "old definition" at all. Knowing, having and loving so many deep and slow tunes form up north, east coast, west coast I really never associated or tagged slow, deep Soul as Southern Soul. Hence my missunderstanding.

OK sorry I'll explain what I mean, Roburt said that on his night out he'd like to hear disco, southern soul and so on, as long as it was soulful, I think we're at cross purposes because I am talking exclusively about Northern Soul nights and I wouldn't want to hear ballads etc at a Northern Soul night.

[NEV]

OK sorry I'll explain what I mean, Roburt said that on his night out he'd like to hear disco, southern soul and so on, as long as it was soulful, I think we're at cross purposes because I am talking exclusively about Northern Soul nights and I wouldn't want to hear ballads etc at a Northern Soul night.

Pete ,with all due respect Southern soul means its from the southern part of USA ..nothing to do with being a ballad or slow .

Just as the deep south doesn't mean deep soul

[Stevie T]

back in the 70,s when the disco , funky beat type northern was seeping through , it was taken on board more down south and was niknamed southern soul !.....jeez! and you should have seen what they wore ......

[Guest MrC]

I must admit that I always associated 'Deep' or 'Southern' soul with ballads. Something I picked up from Blues & Soul during the 70s I think.

[NEV]

I must admit that I always associated 'Deep' or 'Southern' soul with ballads. Something I picked up from Blues & Soul during the 70s I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_soul

[Wilxy]

Great thread this!!!!and whilst I'd agree, that several styles have done and still have there part in the overall "scene" itself, individuals championing (in this case) the funk edged "cause" to the degree where solid one hour sets of it, whilst probably including a few stand out tracks within their set,lose the impetus by virtue of the weaker sounds they play along side them. Having listened to most of the soundclips within the thread, there are IMHO undoubtedly a few really nice pieces of music...... however there are also some more very average tracks........In my very humble opinion.....Alas respectfully.....Each to their own

[Tim Smithers]

back in the 70,s when the disco , funky beat type northern was seeping through , it was taken on board more down south and was niknamed southern soul !.....jeez! and you should have seen what they wore ......

Not as bad as up north, think most are still dressing that way lol

[Pete S]

Pete ,with all due respect Southern soul means its from the southern part of USA ..nothing to do with being a ballad or slow .

Just as the deep south doesn't mean deep soul

Thanks for patronising me Nev however if you were a bit older you'd understand that this was how the press diifferentiated the types of soul, generally Southern meant slow, Northern meant fast.

For f*cks sake.

[Stevie T]

Not as bad as up north, think most are still dressing that way lol

hahahaha i get where your coming from , but the southern thing was like a banging night at studio 54 or an early episode of FAME !!!

[NEV]

Thanks for patronising me Nev however if you were a bit older you'd understand that this was how the press diifferentiated the types of soul, generally Southern meant slow, Northern meant fast.

For f*cks sake.

Sorry Pete ... was'nt meant to be patronising .,was trying to help

.i thought maybe you were confused ,Marc seemed to think so ,or you were confusing him and me ??

I guess maybe me and Marc are too young and missed the point

[Pete S]

Sorry Pete ... was'nt meant to be patronising .,was trying to help

.i thought maybe you were confused ,Marc seemed to think so ,or you were confusing him and me ??

I guess maybe me and Marc are too young and missed the point

Two people also said the same thing as me above Nev - that in the 70's, Southern meant slow, Northern meant fast - not always, but mostly.

Bit perterbed that you think I wouldn't know that labels like the Backbeat set up, Goldwax, people like Lou Pride etc came from the South though.

I do actually know quite a bit about music

[Guest MrC]

Two people also said the same thing as me above Nev - that in the 70's, Southern meant slow, Northern meant fast - not always, but mostly.

Bit perterbed that you think I wouldn't know that labels like the Backbeat set up, Goldwax, people like Lou Pride etc came from the South though.

I do actually know quite a bit about music

Ditto

[NEV]

Two people also said the same thing as me above Nev - that in the 70's, Southern meant slow, Northern meant fast - not always, but mostly.

Bit perterbed that you think I wouldn't know that labels like the Backbeat set up, Goldwax, people like Lou Pride etc came from the South though.

I do actually know quite a bit about music

Yes but nobody knows everything Pete ..then again ,these days it's all there to be googled

[Guest MrC]

Yes but nobody knows everything Pete ..then again ,these days it's all there to be googled

https://en.wikipedia....i/Southern_soul

or quoted as a link to a wikipedia artilcle..........

[Guest gordon russell]

People seem preoccupied with single records,but added together they're gonna make a set and as far as nighters go it,s sets of flowing dance music that count one set blending into the other these funk dominated sets as well as being to my mind durge brake the flow of the night giving the job of the next dj to revive the night....sometimes it,s to late .....For a while now if the music is as i,ve described (as it usually is at my fav venue,but has had it,s moments) then l never even need to look up to the stage to see who's djing.......l only look up when the vibe has been broken with that good old retort "who the f**ks that djing"....sadly it,s been when someones playing a disjointed set that don,t flow....and it,s usually too funk laden

[Guest john s]

.l only look up when the vibe has been broken with that good old retort "who the f**ks that djing"....sadly it,s been when someones playing a disjointed set that don,t flow....and it,s usually too funk laden

I've seen a lot of people play disjointed sets that don't flow - that's nothing to do with playing funky music, that's being a crap DJ, not being able to read a crowd, and not knowing how your records go together, surely.

[Garethx]

If you dig too deep into any named musical gene you're going to hit a point where the quality level eventually drops off the cliff face.

I happen to love "Pow Wow" by Manny Corchado and consider it to be one of the greatest and most charismatic dance records ever made, but an hour long set of 'authentic' 1960s Boogaloo on ever more obscure labels by more and more marginal artists might just drive me to slash my wrists.

I sometimes wonder if we aren't all too far into obscure records to wake up and smell the coffee: a lot of them, in whatever sub-genre we might favour at a particular point in time, are just not that great, for any number of reasons. A lot of soul music never rose above the level of the generic or the formulaic. Much of it was made speculatively regardless of whether those involved had any real talent. A lot of people will doubtless disagree with me and you are free to do so!

I suppose the part of soul that I used to favour as a collector was deep soul. Outside of about a hundred key titles the quality goes out the window and you eventually reach a point where it becomes difficult to find any semblance of true quality in much of what lies beyond the 'great' records. I eventually began to question whether it was financially worthwhile to continue to mine the depths of the terminally amateurish, the slap-dash and the derivative.

I think it's a similar story with funky-soul, beat ballads, crossover, etc. and that includes so-called 'classic' Northern Soul of the Wigan/Torch/Mecca variety.