I Wish Bootleggers Would F*ck Off

[Pk 22dj]

'pk 22dj' timestamp='1341344918' post='1769648']

After calming down somewhat and looking back at my post reactions I would like to apologise for the fffing, at my age as you rightly say i should calm down a bit and ignore what's going on. They will carry on booting and I have no doubt collectors will buy them, I said collectors not so called DJs. You don't have to have £1000 pound records to be a good DJ, as there are fantastic tunes we all love and fill a dance floors for 10-20 quid and on original labels. My problem is copying labels is totally wrong as the people who buy them would buy them for a £10 on a printed white label if they wanted to play them at home etc. The fact I saw some DJ play something on a boot and did not say anything was due to two things, firstly I can't see that good without my specks and did not realise it was a boot till I was told afterwards. Secondly the tune had just been booted that week, one thing is for sure if it were on a white label that DJ would not have played it. I'm lucky as most of us are to have records that have gone through the roof value wise due mainly to the fact I carried on buying after Wigan etc not knowing they would double / treble in price. I was hoping they might read this and adjust their thoughts on label design, not holding out much hope though. Cheers everyone and keep on souling, I'm off to Valencia with a box of originals this weekend to DJ life is not that bad after all.

thanks pk22DJ

I think a lot of people understand where you are comming from, i think we need to remember that not everyone can afford these tunes normally but love them. i look at it another way. if guys play them at home they grow to love them more, want to hear them out at dos, do`s continue, dj`s get asked to play. records get released and so the cycle continues...............

that said, i think one of the big issues that narks guys is they get asked to dj and follow someone who just played his top tunes, that people want to hear him play, on absolute OUT AND OUT BOOTS made to "decieve" or not to "allegedly". i remeber buying joey delorenzo back in 1999 off george, not cheap but only kenny and ginger i think had it (probably another somewhere, remember it WAS a great tune).....imagine my disgust having it played where i was djing ON A CD. i have the same problem as others with this. its these collectors, dealers and djs who kept the scene going for me and allowed me the opportunity to find and hear some of the best music ever, WE OWE THEM A LOT and should respect it. think where we might be if it wasnt for johnny manship, ginger taylor, gerorge hunt, danny spiers, ady croasdale and many many others who have shared thier love of soul music with us . although i will say i am collecting the go ahead stuff. i think the value is tremendous and the effort put in by whoever does these is just the best quality ever. the pic sleeves and notes are the best. these are the only ones to buy. but what if some one had an original master tape of a top tune and got it put on a carver, would that be acceptable, if the tune was another version and intro, and better. something really rare like magnetics, ernie williams, the inticers or a motown thing, would the carver be acceptable. i think so. i wonder if someone will do holly st james soon and spoil the energy around that one, unless its go ahead of course. then i for one will buy it

I think Holly St James has been booted already, although not on a like for like label and therefor dose not bother me. The Cd thing is fine by me as well, like you say you can always hear new tunes that way. It looks like LAP TOPS are on their way next with a billion or so songs to choose so there will be nothing you cant hear if you ask for it.

However something is a miss for me, as the magic of sitting in a venue and hearing a tune you have never heard before making the hairs on your neck stand up. Then running over to the decks to make your enquiries and hopefully get chance to hold the record its self, in order to remember the thing the next day and trawl web sites and phone around your favorite dealers with the hope of picking it up.

Running up to check what CD its on doesn't have the same ring about it.

I have a 7" Jobet copy of Tommy Good's " IVE GOT TO GET AWAY" think there is only me and Ginger who has it, but some how it found its way on to a CD some years back. I don't give a toss though as I can pick it out and play it at any chosen moment without looking what track it is etc.

Thanks for you reply. PK

Edited July 6, 2012 by pk 22dj

[Mike]

please don't arrest me officer, I only stole 1 camera from the shop, according to some that is ok because there are thieves out there that have stolen a lot more

sorry mike, but was just passing on my thoughts in reply to Petes question

as I said you could discuss the actual ethics of such a deal, however my post was just to give my opinion on what may be the reasons for the different reactions to two different threads, and have no real wish to start comparing a ebay sale with other major issues so excuse me for not replying to your points

[Peter99]

Thanks everyone.

I've had my say which is fine - some may agree or some disagree, which is fine too. I shall now leave this thread - and the other one (after I've picked up any replies) to sunnier and more interesting threads on our great site.

[Guest]

sorry mike, but was just passing on my thoughts in reply to Petes question

as I said you could discuss the actual ethics of such a deal, however my post was just to give my opinion on what may be the reasons for the different reactions to two different threads, and have no real wish to start comparing a ebay sale with other major issues so excuse me for not replying to your points

sorry mike, but was just passing on my thoughts in reply to Petes question

as I said you could discuss the actual ethics of such a deal, however my post was just to give my opinion on what may be the reasons for the different reactions to two different threads, and have no real wish to start comparing a ebay sale with other major issues so excuse me for not replying to your points

I accept the point you make however bootlegging is bootlegging and this thread has voiced its opinion on those who sell them for profit. Be it 1 bootleg or ten, its still selling for profit. I would disagree with your assumption that it is just someone getting rid of some things picked up in a deal; it does not wash with me.....I believe it does not get criticised because of who it is that's doing the selling. My reason for thinking this way is that we also have a 'respected' seller who frequently sells illegal carvers and bootlegs on this site .... NEVER do the people who are criticising on this thread EVER say a word about those dealings .... some can sell bootlegs and carvers galore on this site and not a dicky bird get said.....like it or not, hypocrisy is rife when its 'one of the boys'

Edited July 6, 2012 by mikecook

[Pete S]

I don't know if you're talking about me or not but if you are you need to check the facts of this particular part of your statement

frequently sells illegal carvers

I sold three that I got in a collection the other day, any others I've sold you can count on one hand.

I don't sell any recent or new bootlegs, only "old school" pressings and boots from the 70's which everyone sells.

[paultp]

Sorry but being a saddo i collect flyers, i am yet to see one that states ovo.

If I remember correctly, when "Soul In The City" started up in London they used to have something along the lines of "all records played are original vinyl - it may not be important to you but it is to us"

Always thought that was a nice way of putting it.

[Mace]

Good point, Mace.

Many licensees probably don't have specific permission to reproduce logos and trademarks but they usually do it without meaning to infringe or offend.

With licensing I often try to obtain additional rights to use the names and likenesses of labels (as well as artists) so I can use them if needed and also allow my licensees to use them. I can do that with Quinvy, Harthon and Creative Funk etc. To do that without permission would be wrong and usually it's just a case of making a polite request.

But your point is even more interesting when it comes to bootlegs because in many countries the laws which exist to protect against the unauthorised use of names, images and trade marks are stronger than the laws which protect against infringement of musical copyrights.

For someone to bring a claim for copyright infringement it's necessary (but sometimes difficult) for them to first prove they are in fact the rightful owner. It's often easier to prove you are the owner or an authorised user of a trade name or trade mark than it is to prove you are the owner or the exclusive licensee of a specific recording which may have been made almost fifty years ago or whenever. That's a long time for people to keep all paperwork needed to prove the chain of title etc.

The result is that bootleggers are sometimes prosecuted for infringement of trade marks rather than for unuathorised reproduction of music. At the end of the day it's poetic justice, a bit like the police bringing a general conspiracy case against someone because they don't have enough evidence of the specific crime.

Even here in the UK agencies such as Trading Standards have more power when a trade mark has been infringed. And that's why I'm amazed when bootleggers are careless enough to press 45s on labels such as Motown, for example, which is a well protected trademark in all territories.

So if I ever bootleg a record it will probably be on a fake label called Hits-U-Like or something like that.

As for the question about copyright eventually ceasing in trade marks after a while, I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that but I suspect constant modifications and re-registrations can ensure the rights are protected for as long as required.

Paul

Interesting stuff, thanks for the indepth reply Paul.

Regards

Mace

[Guest Gogs]

If I remember correctly, when "Soul In The City" started up in London they used to have something along the lines of "all records played are original vinyl - it may not be important to you but it is to us"

Always thought that was a nice way of putting it.

I like that.

But just to prove how sad i am, i just pulled a random selection of 100 flyers from my collection (many of the nites are no longer running, mostly due to pubs/clubs shutting down after the smoking ban kicked in (but that's a different topic)) But on none of these flyers did it state their policy as to ovo or vinyl only or cd's or usb sticks or even youtube, so how is anybody to know what is being played unless you stand behind the dj's and watch over their shoulder.

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

£9.99 retail

Stack me!

Commiserations, that would burn me up good and proper, in fact just the thought that people could be that stupid and give all that money to the wrong man isn't doing my blood pressure much good right now...

I assume you must be one of the companies that occasionally emails me with offers (Including GWTWIML). I must make a note that you're one of the good guys.

[lorchand]

Am I missing something or reading this wrong? As an artist, writer and producer, it breaks my heart when I see my work (or any other artists') being bootlegged. I have seen one of my songs being sold on four different labels without permission, at the same time! There is no legitimate bootlegging! I am not calling anyone a bootlegger, but some of the posts here implies the 'collectors' are upset on being robbed!

While I totally agree with the title of this thread, the only thing being stolen are the royalties not being paid to the record company, artist, writers and publishers when bootlegging is done.

Lorraine

[Guest giant]

Am I missing something or reading this wrong? As an artist, writer and producer, it breaks my heart when I see my work (or any other artists') being bootlegged. I have seen one of my songs being sold on four different labels without permission, at the same time! There is no legitimate bootlegging! I am not calling anyone a bootlegger, but some of the posts here implies the 'collectors' are upset on being robbed!

While I totally agree with the title of this thread, the only thing being stolen are the royalties not being paid to the record company, artist, writers and publishers when bootlegging is done.

Lorraine

100% agree with what say all bootleggers are thieves making lot of out of other peoples had work

Edited July 10, 2012 by giant

[Phild]

Stack me!

Commiserations, that would burn me up good and proper, in fact just the thought that people could be that stupid and give all that money to the wrong man isn't doing my blood pressure much good right now...

I assume you must be one of the companies that occasionally emails me with offers (Including GWTWIML). I must make a note that you're one of the good guys.

Thanks

[Guest Gazfunk]

On a related topic - sorry if anyone thinks I'm going too far off topic here, I've been thinking about setting up my own record label for a while now. Basically I want to release new music (on a soul/funk vein and I've already been in negotiations with some artists) but I also wanted to issue some old tracks.

My idea is a limited pressing of new and old tracks on 7 inch vinyl on my label (say no more than 200 copies) that would be sold to djs and collectors around the world. I've got quite a big collection of latin, soul & funk LPs and there are a number of tracks on these LPs that were never issued on a 45. I'd love people to get to hear some of these obscure tracks (and own them on 7") because I think they are fantastic songs that deserve to be heard and owned.

So I identified the tracks I'd like to issue and went through the laborious task of finding out which label currently owns the rights to the songs. After a while I was able to identify the labels and contacted them about the possibility of licensing the tracks for a limited pressing of 200 copies. Not 1 of the labels responded despite me contacting several of them a number of times each.

I guess they realise there's just no money in it for them and they also can't be bothered looking through their catalogue to even confirm that they do own the licensing. This left me incredibly frustrated because it seems that the labels couldn't care less about the music.

As a result, I toyed with the idea of just releasing the tracks anyway (technically you could argue they aren't reissues or bootlegs as they have never been released as a 45 and I'm not trying to swindle people into believing they are original pressings by copying the labels). There was a part of me that wasn't sure that it was o.k. morally, so I guess I'm at a bit of a crossroads and don't know what to do.

I know a lot of you guys are upset with bootlegs but I was just wondering what your views were on my idea. I should add, I'll not really make any money out of this when I consider my costs so I'm not doing this as a money-making scam.

Apologies for the drawn out nature of my post and if it's gone off topic too much. I'd just be genuinely interested in your views.

Cheers,

Gazfunk

[Jerry Hipkiss]

As a result, I toyed with the idea of just releasing the tracks anyway (technically you could argue they aren't reissues or bootlegs as they have never been released as a 45 and I'm not trying to swindle people into believing they are original pressings by copying the labels). There was a part of me that wasn't sure that it was o.k. morally, so I guess I'm at a bit of a crossroads and don't know what to do.

Eh? They've been released in a legal format - doesn't matter whether it's LP only - anything you did would be illegal.

[Guest jerrio]

On a related topic - sorry if anyone thinks I'm going too far off topic here, I've been thinking about setting up my own record label for a while now. Basically I want to release new music (on a soul/funk vein and I've already been in negotiations with some artists) but I also wanted to issue some old tracks.

My idea is a limited pressing of new and old tracks on 7 inch vinyl on my label (say no more than 200 copies) that would be sold to djs and collectors around the world. I've got quite a big collection of latin, soul & funk LPs and there are a number of tracks on these LPs that were never issued on a 45. I'd love people to get to hear some of these obscure tracks (and own them on 7") because I think they are fantastic songs that deserve to be heard and owned.

So I identified the tracks I'd like to issue and went through the laborious task of finding out which label currently owns the rights to the songs. After a while I was able to identify the labels and contacted them about the possibility of licensing the tracks for a limited pressing of 200 copies. Not 1 of the labels responded despite me contacting several of them a number of times each.

I guess they realise there's just no money in it for them and they also can't be bothered looking through their catalogue to even confirm that they do own the licensing. This left me incredibly frustrated because it seems that the labels couldn't care less about the music.

As a result, I toyed with the idea of just releasing the tracks anyway (technically you could argue they aren't reissues or bootlegs as they have never been released as a 45 and I'm not trying to swindle people into believing they are original pressings by copying the labels). There was a part of me that wasn't sure that it was o.k. morally, so I guess I'm at a bit of a crossroads and don't know what to do.

I know a lot of you guys are upset with bootlegs but I was just wondering what your views were on my idea. I should add, I'll not really make any money out of this when I consider my costs so I'm not doing this as a money-making scam.

Apologies for the drawn out nature of my post and if it's gone off topic too much. I'd just be genuinely interested in your views.

Cheers,

Gazfunk

I think you could do with having a word with Paul Mooney on here,Im sure he would be the one to give you advice on reissues and how to about it proply and legaly. Wrighty.

[Guest Phil Armstrong]

I like that.

But just to prove how sad i am, i just pulled a random selection of 100 flyers from my collection (many of the nites are no longer running, mostly due to pubs/clubs shutting down after the smoking ban kicked in (but that's a different topic)) But on none of these flyers did it state their policy as to ovo or vinyl only or cd's or usb sticks or even youtube, so how is anybody to know what is being played unless you stand behind the dj's and watch over their shoulder.

I think the cameras on the decks helps in some way, DJ's are unlikely to play boots for everyone to see.

[Jumpinjoan]

I think the cameras on the decks helps in some way, DJ's are unlikely to play boots for everyone to see.

Adds another dimension to the night too. I love them

[Andybellwood]

I think the cameras on the decks helps in some way, DJ's are unlikely to play boots for everyone to see.

they are impressive at Blackpool tower weekenders

[Naughty Boy]

I think the cameras on the decks helps in some way, DJ's are unlikely to play boots for everyone to see.

Have heard off various folks this has caught a few out too

[KevH]

I think the cameras on the decks helps in some way, DJ's are unlikely to play boots for everyone to see.

Not true.Some don't care they are playing boots with camera's hovering above.

[Guest kev such]

Not true.Some don't care they are playing boots with camera's hovering above.

Or have been known to redirect the camera when djing.

[Jumpinjoan]

Or have been known to redirect the camera when djing.

Couldn't do that at Phil Armstong's do in Derby (2nd room) - no idea where the camera is

Two cameras would be better - nowhere to hide and rightly so

Edited July 11, 2012 by jumpinjoan

[Phild]

I think the cameras on the decks helps in some way, DJ's are unlikely to play boots for everyone to see.

Should be compulsory

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

As a result, I toyed with the idea of just releasing the tracks anyway (technically you could argue they aren't reissues or bootlegs as they have never been released as a 45 and I'm not trying to swindle people into believing they are original pressings by copying the labels). There was a part of me that wasn't sure that it was o.k. morally, so I guess I'm at a bit of a crossroads and don't know what to do.

Your problem is that it's the sound that's copyright, not the format it's on. You can't reproduce it in any way, shape, or form without permission (Unless it's released in 1961 or earlier if you're based in the UK). Anyone who does is a crook

Maybe you went to the wrong people to get your permission though. You should have started with the publishers, or maybe you could have tried the copyright collectors, in my day they were the PRS and the MCPS, don't know if they still are though.

I like the idea though. Good luck with it.

[Ian Dewhirst]

On a related topic - sorry if anyone thinks I'm going too far off topic here, I've been thinking about setting up my own record label for a while now. Basically I want to release new music (on a soul/funk vein and I've already been in negotiations with some artists) but I also wanted to issue some old tracks.

My idea is a limited pressing of new and old tracks on 7 inch vinyl on my label (say no more than 200 copies) that would be sold to djs and collectors around the world. I've got quite a big collection of latin, soul & funk LPs and there are a number of tracks on these LPs that were never issued on a 45. I'd love people to get to hear some of these obscure tracks (and own them on 7") because I think they are fantastic songs that deserve to be heard and owned.

So I identified the tracks I'd like to issue and went through the laborious task of finding out which label currently owns the rights to the songs. After a while I was able to identify the labels and contacted them about the possibility of licensing the tracks for a limited pressing of 200 copies. Not 1 of the labels responded despite me contacting several of them a number of times each.

I guess they realise there's just no money in it for them and they also can't be bothered looking through their catalogue to even confirm that they do own the licensing. This left me incredibly frustrated because it seems that the labels couldn't care less about the music.

As a result, I toyed with the idea of just releasing the tracks anyway (technically you could argue they aren't reissues or bootlegs as they have never been released as a 45 and I'm not trying to swindle people into believing they are original pressings by copying the labels). There was a part of me that wasn't sure that it was o.k. morally, so I guess I'm at a bit of a crossroads and don't know what to do.

I know a lot of you guys are upset with bootlegs but I was just wondering what your views were on my idea. I should add, I'll not really make any money out of this when I consider my costs so I'm not doing this as a money-making scam.

Apologies for the drawn out nature of my post and if it's gone off topic too much. I'd just be genuinely interested in your views.

Cheers,

Gazfunk

Licensing music is a laborious process, uses a lot of resources, takes forever and is a pain in the ass for everyone. By the time the negotiation's been done, the paperwork generated, advances paid, legals signed off, masters requested (and possibly even restored or digitised) and been transported etc, etc, you'll be needing to sell 500 minimum just to cover all the costs believe me.

Also, every music company is under-resourced these days. It takes me months and months to clear albums and I do this for a living. What's currently happening is that you go into a long queue and depending on the value of the deal or your importance to the licensor, you'll find that this will directly set your priority level. The people who do licensing these days are all pretty stressed with huge workloads, so I guess they're trying to keep on top of their most valuable business. So if Ministry Of Sound, Universal TV or Now That's What I Call Music Vol 2000 (all of which will all sell tens of thousands of CD's), then my guess is that they'll get back to those guys rather than the guy who wants to sell a couple of hundred singles on a song they don't know and on a format they didn't think still existed LOL.....

If you want to persue it then have a chat with Paul Mooney as previously suggested and he'll set you straight.

You're gonna need some dosh though. I take it you're independently wealthy then?

Ian D

[Guest Paul]

On a related topic - sorry if anyone thinks I'm going too far off topic here, I've been thinking about setting up my own record label for a while now. Basically I want to release new music (on a soul/funk vein and I've already been in negotiations with some artists) but I also wanted to issue some old tracks.

My idea is a limited pressing of new and old tracks on 7 inch vinyl on my label (say no more than 200 copies) that would be sold to djs and collectors around the world. I've got quite a big collection of latin, soul & funk LPs and there are a number of tracks on these LPs that were never issued on a 45. I'd love people to get to hear some of these obscure tracks (and own them on 7") because I think they are fantastic songs that deserve to be heard and owned.

So I identified the tracks I'd like to issue and went through the laborious task of finding out which label currently owns the rights to the songs. After a while I was able to identify the labels and contacted them about the possibility of licensing the tracks for a limited pressing of 200 copies. Not 1 of the labels responded despite me contacting several of them a number of times each.

I guess they realise there's just no money in it for them and they also can't be bothered looking through their catalogue to even confirm that they do own the licensing. This left me incredibly frustrated because it seems that the labels couldn't care less about the music.

As a result, I toyed with the idea of just releasing the tracks anyway (technically you could argue they aren't reissues or bootlegs as they have never been released as a 45 and I'm not trying to swindle people into believing they are original pressings by copying the labels). There was a part of me that wasn't sure that it was o.k. morally, so I guess I'm at a bit of a crossroads and don't know what to do.

I know a lot of you guys are upset with bootlegs but I was just wondering what your views were on my idea. I should add, I'll not really make any money out of this when I consider my costs so I'm not doing this as a money-making scam.

Apologies for the drawn out nature of my post and if it's gone off topic too much. I'd just be genuinely interested in your views.

Cheers,

Gazfunk

Hello,

It sounds interesting, I'm glad you didn't issue things without licenses and I hope you can find a way to start your project.

But it wouldn't be realistic to limit batches to 200 units because the unit cost would be very high and the revenue from 200 sales (assuming mostly at dealer price) wouldn't quite cover basic processing and manufacturing costs - and that's before you consider licensing fees and royalties, marketing costs and general overheads.

As Ian said, you need to aim for 500 units.

Sorry to hear you didn't get any responses to your license enquiries but I hope you'll find that some companies will pay more attention after you've established a label. So it's catch 22.

The economics of specialist music which has limited sales potential - especially on vinyl format - means that even a high royalty doesn't usually amount to anything which would interest major companies or many independents. And those who may show interest would probably require an advance which would exceed the royalties payable on 500 sales so you could end up paying royalties upfront on far more copies than you'll sell (increasing your costs).

But don't be discouraged, smart small and be patient in the hope that it will grow and you'll gradually get more opportunities to license tracks which may not be available to you in the early days.

Your priority should be to find some music which you can actually license so focus on indie label operators etc. who might be more willing to deal with you at this stage.

I'm a great believer in "nothing ventured, nothing gained" and you should enjoy the experience no matter how it works out.

Best wishes,

Paul

[Little-stevie]

I know its been talked about before but is there a set policy for not letting members sell boots/ carvers on this site????

How many times do i see this subject come up... I am sure many of you know who the bootleggers are, if so then name them ??? many of us have no idea where these things come from...

[Guest Gazfunk]

Thanks to everyone for their replies/suggestions (especially Paul & Ian).

A number of people have said to me about upping the number of copies to 500 or more, but my concern is that there's not enough of a market to sell 500 and I wouldn't want to be out the cost and end up with 300 or so records sitting around that I can't sell!!

Also, it would tie-in with what I want to do in terms of the new acts I'm looking to work with. Again, pressing up 500 or so copies of a track by a band that few people have heard of, is in my opinion throwing money away. By creating only 200 copies of each, the label becomes more exclusive and more appealing to collectors & djs who have a real passion for this kind of music.

I am realistic enough to know that the majors won't bother unless they can make enough money out of it and even at 500 copies per release it still may well not be worth their time (let alone mine and the cost to me).

I guess I'm in the position that I can't see it happening due to the logistics of it. I'd really love to put the tracks out there for collectors to buy on 45 (I know they were on LPs but even these are scarce and few people would be prepared to pay the money for a whole LP, just because of 1 track) so I'll most likely have to shelve my plans.

It's possible I may still have the label with new artists and just drop the idea of issuing old tracks. It's a shame that my passion for the music and sharing it isn't matched by the labels and that it comes down to making money (which I certainly wouldn't) but that's the way of the world these days I suppose and is in part understandable due to the financial climate we are currently operating in.

Cheers!

Gazfunk

[Benji]

I know its been talked about before but is there a set policy for not letting members sell boots/ carvers on this site????

I'm not aware of such a policy and I don't think there's need for one. I only recall the odd one-off carver in the sales section and hardly any of those nasty new pressings. Of course old i.e. 70s/80s pressings are sold on SS and I don't have a problem with that.

It's rather a case of venues and ebay where selling new boots and carvers should be banned.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Benji

[Pete S]

I know its been talked about before but is there a set policy for not letting members sell boots/ carvers on this site????

Not unless someone was making them to order and selling them, or getting quantities of same title bootlegs and selling them like they do on ebay

[Ady Croasdell]

Thanks to everyone for their replies/suggestions (especially Paul & Ian).

A number of people have said to me about upping the number of copies to 500 or more, but my concern is that there's not enough of a market to sell 500 and I wouldn't want to be out the cost and end up with 300 or so records sitting around that I can't sell!!

Also, it would tie-in with what I want to do in terms of the new acts I'm looking to work with. Again, pressing up 500 or so copies of a track by a band that few people have heard of, is in my opinion throwing money away. By creating only 200 copies of each, the label becomes more exclusive and more appealing to collectors & djs who have a real passion for this kind of music.

I am realistic enough to know that the majors won't bother unless they can make enough money out of it and even at 500 copies per release it still may well not be worth their time (let alone mine and the cost to me).

I guess I'm in the position that I can't see it happening due to the logistics of it. I'd really love to put the tracks out there for collectors to buy on 45 (I know they were on LPs but even these are scarce and few people would be prepared to pay the money for a whole LP, just because of 1 track) so I'll most likely have to shelve my plans.

It's possible I may still have the label with new artists and just drop the idea of issuing old tracks. It's a shame that my passion for the music and sharing it isn't matched by the labels and that it comes down to making money (which I certainly wouldn't) but that's the way of the world these days I suppose and is in part understandable due to the financial climate we are currently operating in.

Cheers!

Gazfunk

What people are saying are that it would cost about say £20 or so more to make 500 than 200 as most of the costs are in the setting up stage.

[Mike]

I know its been talked about before but is there a set policy for not letting members sell boots/ carvers on this site????

no specfic policy for vinyl as it should be covered by the "terms of use" already

if there are items where the legality is of concern and are aware of concerns then will firstly try and get confirmation from the member that it is legal or if not feasible ( eg overseas cds etc) look at major retail outlets and see if its been accepted

obviously if not legal then will remove/refuse

this is mainly for new products

when you start talking about "used" (second hand stuff) then its not as clear cut as per the "new" items

as this concerns the running of this site eg site policy, suggest that the best place for any further discussion on this aspect (eg site policy etc ) is via the feedback forum as per reasons said many times

cheers

mike

Edited July 11, 2012 by mike

[Len]

What people are saying are that it would cost about say £20 or so more to make 500 than 200 as most of the costs are in the setting up stage.

I wish my customers understood that! - Sorry, completely 'of topic'

This has been a 'read and a half' though!

Len.

Edited July 11, 2012 by LEN

[grant]

I have been meaning to post this for a while as it's really getting me down, as a 50 yr old Northern Soul fanatic who has been collecting records for over 35 year I think this must be said.

At 15 years old and having very little money, I too collected bootleg records from wigan to play at the youth clubs etc, these records stuck out a mile that they were boots and to be honest nobody bothered as we all had f*ck all and as long as we could hear the top tunes during the week before heading back to Wigan at the weekend to see and hear the originals. At the time we also had Grapevine and Destiny records which too were repected, excepted and collectible.

As the years have gone by more money found its way into my pockets and originals were the order of the day, and lucky for me still quite easy to get hold of, now my collection is very large and filled with expensive top tunes which I get great pleasure of playing from time to time at soul nights in the North West.

Here's my problem, whoever is consistently reproducing the latest crop of top tunes on almost exactly the same label please f*ck *ff doing so, put them out on your own label if you want. Nothing worse than getting your records ready to do your spot when you see the DJ putting on a £10 boot which cost you £100's on the exact same label and now you cant get the pleasure of playing it.

You know who you are so get on with designing your own label before the TAX MAN has you.

I'm sure I'm not on my own with these thoughts. Together we can put a stop to this and keep Northern Soul the most wanted and expensive music ever.

Know where you are coming from Paul, feel the same as you know. AT least whoever did this boot wasnt trying to fool anyone, still makes me chuckle this one....wtf bootleg this??

[Pete S]

Know where you are coming from Paul, feel the same as you know. AT least whoever did this boot wasnt trying to fool anyone, still makes me chuckle this one....wtf bootleg this??

All those "Boot" label releases were aimed at the scooter scene Grant, as were the "Joker" and "SOS" label ones, all came from the same UK source I believe.

[grant]

All those "Boot" label releases were aimed at the scooter scene Grant, as were the "Joker" and "SOS" label ones, all came from the same UK source I believe.

Hi Pete, wasnt there also that Mafmon? thing with 'Just Wait & See' and I think Clifford Binns? both under c/up names

Edited July 19, 2012 by grant

[Pete S]

Hi Pete, wasnt there also that Mafmon? thing with 'Just Wait & See' and I think Clifford Binns? both under c/up names

Yeah but that was done by two of the Stafford boys, totally separate. Mafmon = Mafia Monster

[Ernie Andrews]

By all means discuss it but there was a topic last week covering most of this and there is one on at least a monthly basis covering the same grounds.

Chalky are you saying the House of Commons shouldnt debate the economy on a regular basis then!

Edited July 22, 2012 by Ernie Andrews

[Peter99]

Fcuk me - 188 posts and it's still going strong. Now, where was that OVO thread?

[Ernie Andrews]

Eh? They've been released in a legal format - doesn't matter whether it's LP only - anything you did would be illegal.

I totally agree with you Jerry but IMO it applies to any format I had an argument with Mike on a thread 2 or 3 years ago that spoke about getting a carver of an unissued acetate!-Some local guys were coming back from Prestatyn with Alt versions of the Salvadors etc on Carvers! People have their own standards and agree to the general consensus until it benefits them then Morals go out of the window!

Edited July 22, 2012 by Ernie Andrews

[Ted Massey]

Yeah but that was done by two of the Stafford boys, totally separate. Mafmon = Mafia Monster

Guy said they had 500 pressed then suddenly realised out side of the Stafford followers nobody knew them he said it was a bit of a balls up