I Wish Bootleggers Would F*ck Off

[Guest Brett F]

There is a market for vinyl releases. This genre of music when played out to an audience is primarily played on vinyl. Most do's don't have CD players.

Your right Phil, sorry my comment was confused, and seeing as i do buy previously unreleased vinyl 45's taken off original CD's it indeed was idiotic..LOL...

[Chalky]

Seem to remember a thread on here where the clubs stated whether they were OVO or not (100% Vinyl )

Perhaps a few could take a liitle blimp at that.

Happily there's one on Friday not a million miles from me.

ATB

Tony

I'll see if I can find it later, people will be surprised to see OVO isn't restricted to the so called upfront scene as many seem to believe.

[Quinvy]

I may be wrong, but I think Tony was pointing out the subtle difference between 100% vinyl only, and "original" vinyl only. A lot of the venues that put themselves forward as OVO in that thread, were the former, not the latter. I kept my mouth shut at the time, but nearly severed my tongue doing so.

[Steve G]

It was a tongue in cheek comment

Sorry Nev, my humour fails me whenever I hear about bootlegs.

So are these Outta Sights bootlegs yes or no?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Steve G

[Chalky]

I understand there is a difference. It's getting ridiculous all these debates. Most who are voicing an opinion no where they are going to go for their soul fix, who is Djing, what they play, what format and what the promoters policy is.

Some don't even go to venues.

Phil have you never played somethng you shouldn't?

[Stevie]

What would you prefer us to talk about Chalky?

A reminder of how people feel about bootleggers on a forum such as this does no harm in my eyes.

[Chalky]

By all means discuss it but there was a topic last week covering most of this and there is one on at least a monthly basis covering the same grounds.

[Guest]

One thing about this thread has become apparent to me, many people are using the term dj and saying how appalled they are by boots of their originals being played, well in my circle only a minority of tunes if any ! are booted and if they are then they are quickly diminished and forgotten about, but i'm involved in the soul music scene and not a so called 'Northern ' scene....and God knows what that means anymore, each to their own, my scene is healthy and vibrant, and my weekend will be full, Manchester Saturday at Different Strokes and York at the Waterfront on Sunday....i'm quite content with my lot...Ask yourself a question..Are You ?

would that be the Waterfront Blues & Soul Club

Edited July 5, 2012 by mikecook

[Phild]

43 quid???

How much were you selling your genuine articles for then?

£9.99 retail

[Phild]

I understand there is a difference. It's getting ridiculous all these debates. Most who are voicing an opinion no where they are going to go for their soul fix, who is Djing, what they play, what format and what the promoters policy is.

Some don't even go to venues.

Phil have you never played somethng you shouldn't?

Don't know which Phil this is meant for?

But I have - several records that should never have gone near a turntable. Profiles - Tale A Giant Step for one

[Chalky]

Don't know which Phil this is meant for?

But I have - several records that should never have gone near a turntable. Profiles - Tale A Giant Step for one

Meant for Qunivy and in relation to carvers, cuts or boots not sh*te records.

Bootleggers and counterfeiters have been around a lot longer than this scene and whilst ever there is a demand for a product they will remain.

[Citizen P]

I'll see if I can find it later, people will be surprised to see OVO isn't restricted to the so called upfront scene as many seem to believe.

I may be wrong, but I think Tony was pointing out the subtle difference between 100% vinyl only, and "original" vinyl only. A lot of the venues that put themselves forward as OVO in that thread, were the former, not the latter. I kept my mouth shut at the time, but nearly severed my tongue doing so.

Actually, you are both right....

OVO is not strictly limited to the "Upfront " scene, there are plenty of nights with promotors that care..

And yes, I see lots of nights listed as 100% vinyl- WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FFFS ??

I have said it before, if you want to run a "Top 100 Northern Soul Night" and you haven't got the records emploly the guys n girls that do... there's enough of 'em about.

Tony

[Pete S]

Most of these bootlegs on Ebay are not actual pressings of records but they are carvers made to order by someone or two or three people who have machines, you only need to look at the vinyl and labels, so they can just list any titles and make a copy if anyone orders it. A few years ago someone was doing Millie Jackson House For Sale and I thought they were threatened with legal action by Ace but took no notice.

[Pete S]

And yes, I see lots of nights listed as 100% vinyl- WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FFFS ??

It means there are no CD players. It might not be OVO but at least it's VO.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Pete S

[Citizen P]

It means there are no CD players. It might not be OVO but at least it's VO.

Ah, right, got it.

It means "we play Pressings and boots but not CD's", then ??

Tony

[Guest Brett F]

would that be the Waterfront Blues & Soul Club

Well im over to hear Nev Griffiths play his records, I'm sure his records will all be original, I can't comment on other djs plays at something I didn't attend.

[Pete S]

Ah, right, got it.

It means "we play Pressings and boots but not CD's", then ??

Tony

Yeah I think it means we play anything so long as it's not a cd.

[Andybellwood]

Well im over to hear Nev Griffiths play his records, I'm sure his records will all be original, I can't comment on other djs plays at something I didn't attend.

Well said Brett , i don't normally respond to snide remarks from others, not least as the moderators intervened on the original (playlists) thread . Frankly i'm just embrassed as i didn't release said record was a boot.

[Guest]

I can't agree with that Chalky, there's lots of "blind eyes, and ears" being turned. Everyone knows it goes on, but nobody dares to speak up.

I can't agree with that Chalky, there's lots of "blind eyes, and ears" being turned. Everyone knows it goes on, but nobody dares to speak up.

would that be the Waterfront Blues & Soul Club

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would that be the Waterfront Blues & Soul Club

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the above refers to the promoter of the club who also DJ's ..... do we support clubs who allow bootlegs or do we, as Quinvy suggest, turn a blind eye and ear when it suits

Well im over to hear Nev Griffiths play his records, I'm sure his records will all be original, I can't comment on other djs plays at something I didn't attend.

Edited July 5, 2012 by mikecook

[Guest]

come on guys, the book stops at the DJ, not the bootleggers, next you will be blaming the drug dealers for the people off their faces.

PLAY OVO, ATTEND ONLY OVO EVENTS, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUL SOURCE EVENT GUIDE TO THOSE WHO ARE OVO AND THOSE THAT ARE NOT.

[Guest]

Well im over to hear Nev Griffiths play his records, I'm sure his records will all be original, I can't comment on other djs plays at something I didn't attend.

This is what hacks me off the most. People are very good on their keyboards to shout OVO and 'we only attend 'proper' soul nights with OVO'. And, 'DJ's should not support non OVO events'.

And here we see a classic case of an event that is not OVO (the promoter plays boots) yet those who shout about on here don't really care when it comes to choosing the events they go to.....and OVO DJ's that fdon't give two hoots if they are playing at a non OVO event.

Keyboard warriors

Edited July 5, 2012 by mikecook

[Citizen P]

come on guys, the book stops at the DJ, not the bootleggers, next you will be blaming the drug dealers for the people off their faces.

PLAY OVO, ATTEND ONLY OVO EVENTS, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUL SOURCE EVENT GUIDE TO THOSE WHO ARE OVO AND THOSE THAT ARE NOT.

Bluddy Hell, Read my mind-was just musing if it was a viable option (doubt it)

but on the lines of

OVO

Vinyl

Anything goes.

But, who's gonna be honest enough ??

T

[Guest Brett F]

the above refers to the promoter of the club who also DJ's ..... do we support clubs who allow bootlegs or do we, as Quinvy suggest, turn a blind eye and ear when it suits

Don't see why your so upset because I'm attending a venue to see a good friend of mine play records, I'm off to Manchester Sat, to see my good German friend Lars play his records too, and excuse me but I've no idea who you are but ill make sure ill ask you in the future where I choose to go and with whom I socialise with. Like I said earlier I'm content with the places I visit as a punter, last year or so I've been to Filthy Soul, London, Monumental Soul weekender, Morecambe weekender, Bamburg weekender, Hamburg weekender, Driving Beat ,Leeds, Horse and Groom, Doncaster, Different Strokes, Manchester, Soul Essence weekender, Dab of Soul, Nantwich, Manchester Euro weekender, Taste of Honey, Manchester, Aachen weekender, EMS weekender, Birmingham,Ducimer All Dayer, Manchester, Red Bar Wakefield , Horti Soul Nights, Sheffield ( my Home city ), Leicester All niighter....and a few more, you probably get out more than me, but I will make sure I get your expert advice on what I should or not visit.

[Guest Brett F]

This is what hacks me off the most. People are very good on their keyboards to shout OVO and 'we only attend 'proper' soul nights with OVO'. And, 'DJ's should not support non OVO events'.

And here we see a classic case of an event that is not OVO (the promoter plays boots) yet those who shout about on here don't really care when it comes to choosing the events they go to.....and OVO DJ's that fdon't give two hoots if they are playing at a non OVO event.

Keyboard warriors

Haha Keyboard warriors....I'm loving that, made my day...

Jesus get a life...

This is music we are on about isn't it, Im just trying to think of something that less interests me than you........Still thinking.

[Guest]

Don't see why your so upset because I'm attending a venue to see a good friend of mine play records, I'm off to Manchester Sat, to see my good German friend Lars play his records too, and excuse me but I've no idea who you are but ill make sure ill ask you in the future where I choose to go and with whom I socialise with. Like I said earlier I'm content with the places I visit as a punter, last year or so I've been to Filthy Soul, London, Monumental Soul weekender, Morecambe weekender, Bamburg weekender, Hamburg weekender, Driving Beat ,Leeds, Horse and Groom, Doncaster, Different Strokes, Manchester, Soul Essence weekender, Dab of Soul, Nantwich, Manchester Euro weekender, Taste of Honey, Manchester, Aachen weekender, EMS weekender, Birmingham,Ducimer All Dayer, Manchester, Red Bar Wakefield , Horti Soul Nights, Sheffield ( my Home city ), Leicester All niighter....and a few more, you probably get out more than me, but I will make sure I get your expert advice on what I should or not visit.

Don't see why your so upset because I'm attending a venue to see a good friend of mine play records, I'm off to Manchester Sat, to see my good German friend Lars play his records too, and excuse me but I've no idea who you are but ill make sure ill ask you in the future where I choose to go and with whom I socialise with. Like I said earlier I'm content with the places I visit as a punter, last year or so I've been to Filthy Soul, London, Monumental Soul weekender, Morecambe weekender, Bamburg weekender, Hamburg weekender, Driving Beat ,Leeds, Horse and Groom, Doncaster, Different Strokes, Manchester, Soul Essence weekender, Dab of Soul, Nantwich, Manchester Euro weekender, Taste of Honey, Manchester, Aachen weekender, EMS weekender, Birmingham,Ducimer All Dayer, Manchester, Red Bar Wakefield , Horti Soul Nights, Sheffield ( my Home city ), Leicester All niighter....and a few more, you probably get out more than me, but I will make sure I get your expert advice on what I should or not visit.

attend whatever you like mate ... its non of my business. I just get hacked off at people who say one thing but do another. Waterfront plays bootlegs ... if you chose to go that's up to you. but please don't infer you chose your events to avoid those who allow boots to be played

Edited July 5, 2012 by mikecook

[Guest WheelCity45]

Just an example of cheap quality & fine for dj`ing spins..

Jammers-Where Can She Run Too...
Cookie V-Queen Of Fool...
Ron Baxter-I Aint No School Boy...
Cookie Scott-Your Love Has Won Me Over...
John Ladrew-What`s The Matter With Me...

Atb...
Conner...

Edited March 20, 2013 by WheelCity45

[Guest Brett F]

Mike I've been to 100's of nights where boots have been played, I'm really not that concerned, but the majority are OVO see list above, but I can't possibly be 100% sure every record is original, you see I meet my friends and enjoy myself, I'm a fan of music and yes I like to collect original records, its only a hobby, not life or death, I've many interests outside of Soul, my opinions are only valid to me, I really don't take all this that seriously...do I give that impression.? .I'm sure my friends don't see me like that, I just want to laugh with them and enjoy music.

[Guest]

Well said Brett , i don't normally respond to snide remarks from others, not least as the moderators intervened on the original (playlists) thread . Frankly i'm just embrassed as i didn't release said record was a boot.

its not a snide remark Andy...I'm stating facts

I can understand that these 'look-a-like' boots might confuse some but come on.....surely you can tell the difference between an orig ABC label and a bootlegged DCP LABEL

[Andybellwood]

its not a snide remark Andy...I'm stating facts

I can understand that these 'look-a-like' boots might confuse some but come on.....surely you can tell the difference between an orig ABC label and a bootlegged DCP LABEL

Hi Mike , as you say the difference is obvious but in all honesty i didn't realise DCP was a 'boot' as opposed to another legit label release . Just a shame you have made such an issue out of my ignorance and seek to taint the Waterfront in the process.. 1000 plus records played (venue encourages play lists to be posted) and you focused on a single 45. Lets move on .... . Edited July 5, 2012 by andybellwood

[NEV]

It's been said before on many occasion ,but collecting and playing ovo is a personal choice .

I have many friends who collect and play re-issues and boots ,it doesn't make em bad people and it won't stop me going to non original vinyl events to meet up and socialise with them.

Ffs ,Waterfront is a free event on a Sunday afternoon and for people who enjoy soul music .

I've seen many a playlist on here that are from ovo events with records on em that are considered boots and IMHO items that are merely down to interpretation of a rule ,that lets face it ,is unwritten ,there are no real laws and sorry to disappoint or burst anyone's bubble ..not really any soul police!

I seriously think some people need to get a grip on reality .

Stick by your own principles by all means ,but don't chastise others because they don't follow your regime !

[paultp]

its not a snide remark Andy...I'm stating facts

I can understand that these 'look-a-like' boots might confuse some but come on.....surely you can tell the difference between an orig ABC label and a bootlegged DCP LABEL

I think the difference here is that Andy thought he was playing OVO but wasn't, that is a million miles from the club being one where boots are acceptable. He would hardly put a playlist up on here with labels etc if he was knowingly playing bootlegs.

He's already said quite publicly that he is embarrassed about the whole thing but you keep at it like a dog with a bone - is this a personal thing or summat? What is it you want?

[Guest]

It's been said before on many occasion ,but collecting and playing ovo is a personal choice .

I have many friends who collect and play re-issues and boots ,it doesn't make em bad people and it won't stop me going to non original vinyl events to meet up and socialise with them.

Ffs ,Waterfront is a free event on a Sunday afternoon and for people who enjoy soul music .

I've seen many a playlist on here that are from ovo events with records on em that are considered boots and IMHO items that are merely down to interpretation of a rule ,that lets face it ,is unwritten ,there are no real laws and sorry to disappoint or burst anyone's bubble ..not really any soul police!

I seriously think some people need to get a grip on reality .

Stick by your own principles by all means ,but don't chastise others because they don't follow your regime !

the most sensible post i've read in this thread

Edited July 5, 2012 by mikecook

[pikeys dog]

Sorry, but "Shazaming"? I've not come across that one before.

What's it mean?

It's a particularly perverse sex act involving half a pint of Olive Oil, a Midget and a child's Tonka Truck toy...

"I Shazamed him until he was walking like John Wayne..."

[Keithw]

if people make carvers with look alike labels - how long before these go over to the states for a few years and get sold back

by american dealers who havnt a clue what the orig should look like and just say i bought it in the states it must be kosher

and sell to someone who doesnt know about stamps and such ----- very dodgy ground

[Guest Paul]

As this topic is about bootlegs, I think we should try to distinguish between bootlegs and authentic issues / reissues.

Most soul bootlegs are either pirates on fake or unauthorised labels or counterfeits which copy or emulate the original label, sometimes with the intention of misleading buyers.

But counterfeits are often called repros these days and that can be confusing because some legitimate companies issue or reissue 45s in repro label styles. There's an important difference but at times it's difficult for any of us to really know if a particular 45 is legal or not.

The most obvious example of a UK company which uses a variety of repro label styles rather than their own generic label is Outta Sight, as discussed in this topic and elsewhere recently. It's no surprise that some people confuse some of Outta Sight's repro label 45s with bootleg 45s, that's bound to happen.

From what limited knowledge I have and from specific dealings with Outta Sight and their manufacturers / distributors Passion (who also handle the Expansion, Soul Brother and Go Ahead labels), I'm sure the repro label 45s issued by Outta Sight are legitimate. They license masters from companies such as Sony, Universal and Demon etc - companies which I have dealings with myself.

As for my personal views, I'm not keen on repro label 45s in general (apart from the risk of them being confused with bootlegs) and I don't usually like UK 45s which are dinked just to look American. And I'm not very keen on 45s which feature unrelated artists on each side, it's sometimes unavoidable and it's obviously good value for money but it just doesn't appeal to me for some strange reason. We all have difference tastes.

As for the original vinyl debate, I don't have strong views about it myself and I've DJd all my life until about ten years ago, playing music new and old on various formats. It's each to his own, of course, but context is the important thing so it obviously depends on the event; it would be insulting to play reissues at a defined rare soul event.

If cassette tapes ever become popular with DJs we could have endless debates about Dolby B.

Paul

[Mace]

As this topic is about bootlegs, I think we should try to distinguish between bootlegs and authentic issues / reissues.

Most soul bootlegs are either pirates on fake or unauthorised labels or counterfeits which copy or emulate the original label, sometimes with the intention of misleading buyers.

But counterfeits are often called repros these days and that can be confusing because some legitimate companies issue or reissue 45s in repro label styles. There's an important difference but at times it's difficult for any of us to really know if a particular 45 is legal or not.

The most obvious example of a UK company which uses a variety of repro label styles rather than their own generic label is Outta Sight, as discussed in this topic and elsewhere recently. It's no surprise that some people confuse some of Outta Sight's repro label 45s with bootleg 45s, that's bound to happen.

From what limited knowledge I have and from specific dealings with Outta Sight and their manufacturers / distributors Passion (who also handle the Expansion, Soul Brother and Go Ahead labels), I'm sure the repro label 45s issued by Outta Sight are legitimate. They license masters from companies such as Sony, Universal and Demon etc - companies which I have dealings with myself.

As for my personal views, I'm not keen on repro label 45s in general (apart from the risk of them being confused with bootlegs) and I don't usually like UK 45s which are dinked just to look American. And I'm not very keen on 45s which feature unrelated artists on each side, it's sometimes unavoidable and it's obviously good value for money but it just doesn't appeal to me for some strange reason. We all have difference tastes.

As for the original vinyl debate, I don't have strong views about it myself and I've DJd all my life until about ten years ago, playing music new and old on various formats. It's each to his own, of course, but context is the important thing so it obviously depends on the event; it would be insulting to play reissues at a defined rare soul event.

If cassette tapes ever become popular with DJs we could have endless debates about Dolby B.

Paul

Paul, putting the actual music to one side for a second, there is one area of lookalike repros that I have often wondered about.

Does the use the lookalike labels, or labels which emulate the original labels, break any laws regards artistic design of the original label...... and if so has anyone ever been sued or likely to be sued for such ?

Also, if applicable, would such (label) artistic license be subject to the same 50 year rule that supposedly restricts the illegal copying of the actual music?

Regards

Mace

[Peter99]

I have just commented on this issue on the "Carver" thread. Why haven't all the outraged, vitriolic posters commented there? Don't get it.

Sorry Chalky - it is sort of relevant - so I might cut and paste?

[Peter99]

My post from the carvers thread.

"I'm not really into all this heated debate about OVO, boots, carvers etc. Mainly because it get's done to death on here and it is now probably one of the most tedious fecking topics on the site. But, what does intrigue me is that it appears that it's ok if some people are involved in some way and making a bit of cash out of it along the way - but not others. Why is that?

Why hasn't this thread suddenly got a hundred or so vitriolic, foul mouthed rants about the seller who is clearly selling stuff that isn't legit? Or am I missing something. Like I said I'm not that interested either way but it smacks of hypocracy to me. If I've missed something I'm happy to hold my hands up and apologise - but I'm not sure that I have"

[Brav]

My post from the carvers thread.

"I'm not really into all this heated debate about OVO, boots, carvers etc. Mainly because it get's done to death on here and it is now probably one of the most tedious fecking topics on the site. But, what does intrigue me is that it appears that it's ok if some people are involved in some way and making a bit of cash out of it along the way - but not others. Why is that?

Why hasn't this thread suddenly got a hundred or so vitriolic, foul mouthed rants about the seller who is clearly selling stuff that isn't legit? Or am I missing something. Like I said I'm not that interested either way but it smacks of hypocracy to me. If I've missed something I'm happy to hold my hands up and apologise - but I'm not sure that I have"

Hi Pete.

I said the same thing in an earlier post, it's double standards mate.

Some of the Top Dj's with the big ticket records that do all the moaning about people playing boots dont mind selling boots to people.

You only have to look in the sales section on here and theres loads of boot forsale.

[Peter99]

Hi Pete.

I said the same thing in an earlier post, it's double standards mate.

Some of the Top Dj's with the big ticket records that do all the moaning about people playing boots dont mind selling boots to people.

You only have to look in the sales section on here and theres loads of boot forsale.

Yep.

You're always going to get some of it. The thing that gets me though is all the effing and blinding about - people come across as being so angry and against it it's unbelievable hypocracy. As I said I don't really give two hoots cos it's now so boring. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has a go at me now for saying I don't give two hoots!

[NEV]

Yep.

You're always going to get some of it. The thing that gets me though is all the effing and blinding about - people come across as being so angry and against it it's unbelievable hypocracy. As I said I don't really give two hoots cos it's now so boring. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has a go at me now for saying I don't give two hoots!

Two hoots ...is that subliminal for two casino classic 45's ..if so it worked on me .lol

[Peter99]

LOL

Nice one Nev

[SallieJane]

Let's face it....the oldies handbaggers dos don't give a f**k if it OVO. But that's not my scene, probably no one on here either as they can't be bothered to really get involved lol.

So as I see it, from the comments posted, bootlegs OK for listening at home....but most definately NOT for playing out...AGREE

end of story really....

Edited July 5, 2012 by SallieJane

[Peter99]

Let's face it....the oldies handbaggers dos don't give a f**k if it OVO. But that's not my scene, probably no one on here either as they can't be bothered to really get involved lol.

So as I see it, from the comments posted, bootlegs OK for listening at home....but most definately NOT for playing out...AGREE

end of story really....

But that isn't it is it. This thread is entitled "Boot Leggers Fcuk Off" and there has been plenty of very, very angry posts citing that anyone who has anything to do with bootlegs, pressings and non OVO are the anti christ(s). 142 posts to be precise. Yet, we have another thread entitled "Carvers" where a well known person is selling stuff that could be described as dodgy and no one gives a fook.

So, tell me. How's that work then. As I've said previously I don't care cos I'm bored with the whole subject - but the level of hypocracy is mind blowing.

[Mike]

But that isn't it is it. This thread is entitled "Boot Leggers Fcuk Off" and there has been plenty of very, very angry posts citing that anyone who has anything to do with bootlegs, pressings and non OVO are the anti christ(s). 142 posts to be precise. Yet, we have another thread entitled "Carvers" where a well known person is selling stuff that could be described as dodgy and no one gives a fook.

So, tell me. How's that work then. As I've said previously I don't care cos I'm bored with the whole subject - but the level of hypocracy is mind blowing.

mind blowing hypocracy ?

thought the seller description made it quite clear the circumstances of the sale

as in its part of a collection disposal

sure can always question the ethics of such a sale

but wouldn't agree with your view that a lack of posted outrage is its a example of mind blowing etc etc

or indeed comparable with someone mass producing bootlegs

seems to me to be just someone getting rid of some things picked up in a deal to me

maybe the lack of outrage is cause others see it that way as well?

cheers

mike

LL THESE 45S ARE IN VG++ OR BETTER CONDITION AND ARE SOLD AS IS, NON OF THEM ARE ORIGINAL ALTHOUGH MOST HAVE ORIGINAL LOOKING LABELS.

THESE WERE PART OF A COLLECTION DISPOSAL AND ARE NOT THE NORMAL STUFF WE CARRY SO YOU DECIDE THE PRICE. ITS STARTING AT JUST £1.

THE CARVERS ARE NOT VINYL DUB PLATES BUT ACTUAL ONE OFFS DONE ON A VESTEX CUTTER IN JAPAN

WE TAKE ALL PAYMENT METHODS INC CREDIT CARDS.

ANY QUESTIONS WELCOME

THANKS FOR LOOKING

Edited July 5, 2012 by mike

[Guest Gogs]

Sort of changing the subject slightly here..................but someone has already mentioned that you look at what's on offer and you make your choices. Pretty straightforward you would think!!!

If a flyer or a post says OVO, then that's what you expect....................if the same does not state OVO, then in general you know that that particular venue/promoter is not particularly bothered.

I was in a position not too long ago where the guest DJ played CD's. There was a bit of a debate going on...........a few didn't mind................a few were a bit peeeed

off (including myself).

I didn't attend this particular venue because I was a big fan of the guest DJ..................I knew what I was going to get music wise..................but like I say I was a bit peeeed off at the CD issue. I commented at the time, that .had I known about the CD thing, I would not have attended!!

My point is that if promoters can state on a flyer if OVO will be played, in the same vein, why can't a promoter state on a flyer or post on here or whatever form of advertising that CD's will be played on the night!!!! Doing this IMO would then give no chance for complaint.................it does what it says on the tin.............if you have all the info, you can then make your choice!!!

Carol

Sorry but being a saddo i collect flyers, i am yet to see one that states ovo.

[Ady Croasdell]

But that isn't it is it. This thread is entitled "Boot Leggers Fcuk Off" and there has been plenty of very, very angry posts citing that anyone who has anything to do with bootlegs, pressings and non OVO are the anti christ(s). 142 posts to be precise. Yet, we have another thread entitled "Carvers" where a well known person is selling stuff that could be described as dodgy and no one gives a fook.

So, tell me. How's that work then. As I've said previously I don't care cos I'm bored with the whole subject - but the level of hypocracy is mind blowing.

I think this thread is about having a go at people who press up 500 copies for personal profit without giving anything to the people who made the records possible in the first place. Most people are into the business side to make money but why not give a rightful percentage to the people who created the goods they are selling,

You're right there is a huge amount of hypocrisy on the scene, like the people who bought the releases of a well known gladly departed Northern Soul reissue label who flouted the not very strong licensing laws. They made a lot of money and couldn't be arsed to give it to the singers, songwriters and producers. They got their comeuppance eventually and are now a murky piece of Northern Soul history. With their knowledge and contacts they could have done it so much better, still be doing very good business and have a lot of respect. but they were greedy and thought they were above a law that is there to get a small percentage of the profits to people who earned it. And the people who colluded with them and kissed their bums weren't a lot better.

Nobody can be arsed to deal with a fool who makes a one or ten-off carver and sells it on to an even bigger fool, the effort to catch and prosecute jokers like that isn't worth it.

If you're bored with this thread maybe you could go and find another one, there's plenty on this excellent site. Leave this one to people who want to discuss a sad part of our scene which makes you feel embarrassed to talk about our interest in the wonderful music to the singers and musicians when you have to then explain that their recordings have been exploited for commercial gain over here by people who have no rights whatsoever to do it.

Ady

[Guest Paul]

Paul, putting the actual music to one side for a second, there is one area of lookalike repros that I have often wondered about.

Does the use the lookalike labels, or labels which emulate the original labels, break any laws regards artistic design of the original label...... and if so has anyone ever been sued or likely to be sued for such ?

Also, if applicable, would such (label) artistic license be subject to the same 50 year rule that supposedly restricts the illegal copying of the actual music?

Regards

Mace

Good point, Mace.

Many licensees probably don't have specific permission to reproduce logos and trademarks but they usually do it without meaning to infringe or offend.

With licensing I often try to obtain additional rights to use the names and likenesses of labels (as well as artists) so I can use them if needed and also allow my licensees to use them. I can do that with Quinvy, Harthon and Creative Funk etc. To do that without permission would be wrong and usually it's just a case of making a polite request.

But your point is even more interesting when it comes to bootlegs because in many countries the laws which exist to protect against the unauthorised use of names, images and trade marks are stronger than the laws which protect against infringement of musical copyrights.

For someone to bring a claim for copyright infringement it's necessary (but sometimes difficult) for them to first prove they are in fact the rightful owner. It's often easier to prove you are the owner or an authorised user of a trade name or trade mark than it is to prove you are the owner or the exclusive licensee of a specific recording which may have been made almost fifty years ago or whenever. That's a long time for people to keep all paperwork needed to prove the chain of title etc.

The result is that bootleggers are sometimes prosecuted for infringement of trade marks rather than for unuathorised reproduction of music. At the end of the day it's poetic justice, a bit like the police bringing a general conspiracy case against someone because they don't have enough evidence of the specific crime.

Even here in the UK agencies such as Trading Standards have more power when a trade mark has been infringed. And that's why I'm amazed when bootleggers are careless enough to press 45s on labels such as Motown, for example, which is a well protected trademark in all territories.

So if I ever bootleg a record it will probably be on a fake label called Hits-U-Like or something like that.

As for the question about copyright eventually ceasing in trade marks after a while, I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that but I suspect constant modifications and re-registrations can ensure the rights are protected for as long as required.

Paul

[Guest turntableterra]

quote name='Roger Williams' timestamp='1341394597' post='1769841']

Here's a genuine thought about all this lot.

All 'scene ethos' blah blah aside, I understand all that, heard a million arguments for and against a million times, but at the end of the day, isn't a thread like this started because a DJ has had his ego bruised because he hasn't had the chance to show off his prize possessions?

I think it is but no way would anyone be big enough or man enough to admit it.

Roger

i understand where you are comming from here, but i for one love to see these rare numbers and the fact that guys go out of their way to find them and spend the hard earned dosh to buy them,....................sadly or not i even ask if i can photograph them. to those guys i say KEEP ON KEEPING ON

[Guest]

mind blowing hypocracy ?

thought the seller description made it quite clear the circumstances of the sale

as in its part of a collection disposal

sure can always question the ethics of such a sale

but wouldn't agree with your view that a lack of posted outrage is its a example of mind blowing etc etc

or indeed comparable with someone mass producing bootlegs

seems to me to be just someone getting rid of some things picked up in a deal to me

maybe the lack of outrage is cause others see it that way as well?

cheers

mike

mind blowing hypocracy ?

thought the seller description made it quite clear the circumstances of the sale

as in its part of a collection disposal

sure can always question the ethics of such a sale

but wouldn't agree with your view that a lack of posted outrage is its a example of mind blowing etc etc

or indeed comparable with someone mass producing bootlegs

seems to me to be just someone getting rid of some things picked up in a deal to me

maybe the lack of outrage is cause others see it that way as well?

cheers

mike

please don't arrest me officer, I only stole 1 camera from the shop, according to some that is ok because there are thieves out there that have stolen a lot more

Edited July 6, 2012 by mikecook