Rca Custom Press - Grapevine Label

[dthedrug]

HI ALL...I WAS LOOKING AT RANKONG JOHNNY BOYS AUCTION WHEN.........

On Johns auction, he has an acetate by Al Williams, in the blurb that follows he Say's that it is a rare opportunity and this us the 1st time he has listed a pre release, very true, however as I have 2 other titles on RCA CUSTOM, i was wondering what the value will be, what John fails to mention, is the very small numbers of grapevine acetates there are, I was told only 5 out of 43+ had custom release, with the ALL WILLIAMS on JM AUCTION & my 2, what are the others, also I was informed, that Richard only handed these records to the very few selected top DJ? my 2 were Richards own copies, that were played at the CASINO. I have a strong feeling on my water that the Al Williams is also Richards, but I could be wrong.

Does any other titles apart from the 3, in the hands of SOULSOURCE MEMBERS, If so can they let me no what they are, To my way of thinking these are not just acetates, but also very rare memorabilia

DAVE K

[Pete S]

HI ALL...I WAS LOOKING AT RANKONG JOHNNY BOYS AUCTION WHEN.........

On Johns auction, he has an acetate by Al Williams, in the blurb that follows he Say's that it is a rare opportunity and this us the 1st time he has listed a pre release, very true, however as I have 2 other titles on RCA CUSTOM, i was wondering what the value will be, what John fails to mention, is the very small numbers of grapevine acetates there are, I was told only 5 out of 43+ had custom release, with the ALL WILLIAMS on JM AUCTION & my 2, what are the others, also I was informed, that Richard only handed these records to the very few selected top DJ? my 2 were Richards own copies, that were played at the CASINO. I have a strong feeling on my water that the Al Williams is also Richards, but I could be wrong.

Does any other titles apart from the 3, in the hands of SOULSOURCE MEMBERS, If so can they let me no what they are, To my way of thinking these are not just acetates, but also very rare memorabilia

DAVE K

Only because of the provenance though - otherwise they contain the same material as the released records and are therefore not really worth much - remember we discussed this about the Pye 60's acetates...

[dthedrug]

HI PETE I totally agree, some people would say they are as good as the EMI DISCS of the 72-74 period, However as you are aware these do have a provenance that attaches them to Wigan, and I am sure that if the unreleased Grapevines come up on RCA CUSTOM, the completest would have to have them, don't you think? in fact these should belong in a collection, I have most Grapevines never got round to finishjng the run? only 8 short got all but to of the rarest DAVE

[Trev Thomas]

there was a few on ebay last year keanya collins and a couple of others

[Steve G]

I've got one, got it from Ian Clark a few years ago. I'd need to dig it out of a box of acetates though.

[Ric-tic]

theres what judy street too

[Wiganer1]

searling what on this label at blackpool

[Steve G]

My one is Keanya Collins

[Wiganer1]

wish i had a betty boo - spellbound or even better ronnie and robin 137...

[TOAD]

soul sam had a real jimmy burns at that time i dont reamber searling playing it ? Any way worthless imo !

[dthedrug]

HI ALL......I have had a rethink about this subject, and it is clear that there are more than 5 as stated, and like the First Choice "this is the house" PYE INT, there is no reason that the unreleased stuff from the catalogue, was not promoted at the time? I do also think that they are worth more than the old EMO DISC as I stated, this change of mind is due to the fact that they are all 100% proper, and the fact that they are on RCA CUSTOM PRESS, am I right in saying that there are a couple of EDDIE HOLMAN sides on RCA CUSTOM also BETTY BOO?

of course we could ask the Scotchman John Anderson or indeed Richard, as well as Pete but he was quick to dismiss them, why I don't no as he wrote a excellent review of the label?

Toady boy any thing you say is relevant to me, even if it's an elephant to you mate And finaly perhaps my favourate DISCO RECORD OH! YEH DAVE DOUBLE DEX

THE MEMPHIS HORNS CLASSIC?

[Steve G]

theres what judy street too

Interesting, since Judy Street was already a monster everywhere when it came out and all the top jocks had it.

Kind of implies it was done for quality / testing type purposes rather than for giving out to DJs?

SOme of the others were big rarities or lesser known sounds, so I could understand Richard giving a few out for airplay once they knew they would be coming out.

[Trev Thomas]

jimmy burns on grapevine is a bootleg, bobby james who owns the rights to it was totally unaware of any u.k. release and he certainly never recieved any royalties from grapevine

[Pete S]

Interesting, since Judy Street was already a monster everywhere when it came out and all the top jocks had it.

Kind of implies it was done for quality / testing type purposes rather than for giving out to DJs?

SOme of the others were big rarities or lesser known sounds, so I could understand Richard giving a few out for airplay once they knew they would be coming out.

That's right, they're just the standard acetate/test presses. When I did the Grapevine article for Record Collector I did ask why they put out weird things like Stanley Woodruff a year after it had been popular and John Anderson said simply "because we had the rights to them"

[Chalky]

I have an magazine at home about the Grapevine Label, (done in the 80's I think) and sure it has scans of quite a few Grapevine RCA acetates. I'll have to dig the magazine out.

[Wiganer1]

i saw 10" acetates at wigan tiffs for sale in 82...of betty boo and tony hestor

[Phild]

jimmy burns on grapevine is a bootleg, bobby james who owns the rights to it was totally unaware of any u.k. release and he certainly never recieved any royalties from grapevine

Hi Trev,

Actually Bobby James doesn't own the rights to either Jimmy Burns or even his own version.

The rights belong to Clarence Johnson (well his estate now) and I did a long term license deal with Clarence many years ago for UK and EU rights.

Many artists "think" they own the rights to their songs, but in most cases sadly they don't.

Cheers

Phil

Edited June 28, 2012 by phild

[Guest]

I have a RCA Custom labelled acetate for Construction, albeit the hand-written credits state 'Del Capris' a la the c/up name Grapevine released it under.

I was always under the impression these acetates were made for fellow Casino DJs and that was it... Think Dave Evison once told me that. Therefore, there were only a small handful of each, if indeed all numbers followed this pattern.

[Steve Foran]

HI ALL...I WAS LOOKING AT RANKONG JOHNNY BOYS AUCTION WHEN.........

On Johns auction, he has an acetate by Al Williams, in the blurb that follows he Say's that it is a rare opportunity and this us the 1st time he has listed a pre release, very true, however as I have 2 other titles on RCA CUSTOM, i was wondering what the value will be, what John fails to mention, is the very small numbers of grapevine acetates there are, I was told only 5 out of 43+ had custom release, with the ALL WILLIAMS on JM AUCTION & my 2, what are the others, also I was informed, that Richard only handed these records to the very few selected top DJ? my 2 were Richards own copies, that were played at the CASINO. I have a strong feeling on my water that the Al Williams is also Richards, but I could be wrong.

Does any other titles apart from the 3, in the hands of SOULSOURCE MEMBERS, If so can they let me no what they are, To my way of thinking these are not just acetates, but also very rare memorabilia

DAVE K

Re Al Williams I know that Richard had both a La Beat copy and a Palmer copy back then. On his radio show for Jazz FM he said he gave one to his accountant for his tax affairs one year in place of payment. Still nice and interesting to see the Grapevine 10" ( imo).

[Tfk]

I have a RCA Custom labelled acetate for Construction, albeit the hand-written credits state 'Del Capris' a la the c/up name Grapevine released it under.

I was always under the impression these acetates were made for fellow Casino DJs and that was it... Think Dave Evison once told me that. Therefore, there were only a small handful of each, if indeed all numbers followed this pattern.

add the James Bynum, The Millionaires on 45 and and managed to rub 2 out of the 3 Grapevine albums

GRAL1001 AND GRAL1002....all on RCA Custom acetates.. given by same source...[seem to think the GRAL1002 was the hardest and it would be interesting how many album acetates were done atthe time]

ktf tfk

Edited June 30, 2012 by tfk

[Steve G]

Just heard from Ian Clark, who's been keeping an eye on this thread from afar (well deepest Norfolk).

He writes to say he remembers having12" of Del Capris and a 10" acetate of Larry Clinton AND Jimmy Burns.

Also on this format was Betty Boo "spellbound" , Popcorn Wylie "Hanky Panky" (both 10") and James Bynum, Ellingtons, and Millionaires.

Plus there was a 7" of the same - Dave McAller (ex Pye man) was working at RCA at the time....which I didn't know.

Ian was sent to RCA's vault in London one day by John A to retrieve his copy of Cecil Washington which John had left on the shelves during a visit and a tape of an instrumental of Al Williams which was there.

Ian says Hi to all and is working on his next list:

Steve

[Chalky]

The booklet I was talking about can be found in the following topic......