The Right To Reply

[jocko]

And regards new music, keep up lad, I binned that off months ago, lost interest almost totally for a myriad of reasons, to the extent where I've knocked venue DJ'ing on the head as well - I'm happy as Larry these days with my collection and steady steam of new discogs and ebay original vinyl only LP purchases, it's all I need now, the rest of you can carry on fighting amongst yourselves.

Ehhh that is my point soft lad, as one of your most ardent podcast stalkers followers, I am well aware of your change in path and I have hardly bought any new music since you changed tack, so I am ordering you to get back to new music as its too much hard work for me to find my own.

At risk of going even further off topic, how good is Discogs. I am almost into treble figures of cheap LPs off there this year

[Sutty]

The downside of dj's not playing original vinyl is, anyone who has not served there time, will be able to get behind the decks and do a ridiculous uneducated spot.

wasn't going to say anything but that is the post of the day lol

[Little-stevie]

Sad to say on topics such as this its impossible for some to " play nicely "..... It brings forth a passion like no other..

There are more than enough places that play original format for me, not enough time to get around all these with home life/ work/ finances etc etc.

Also the playing of original records can be done without the night looking like a stamp collectors convention , i know many happy go lucky folk who can be rather jolly and good fun and they preach the original vinyl code..

[Guest Matt Male]

I think there is too much diversity modern soul r n b Latin funky and rare soul....which is a beast that I just do not understand! I've listened to a lot of it and I find that its too mid tempo and suffer from bad productions yet The Tomangoes is rare soul and northern soul and right up my street...when the two meet its great ...when they don't oh dear..

Here we go again, funky soul played on the scene is mid-tempo. What a load of rubbish. You've listened to a lot of it? I doubt that very much. Why don't you get along to the Ton of Dynamite room at Gloucester and listen to set after set of up-tempo funky soul, RnB and Latin. I'm sick of people with no idea slagging off the venues that play these sounds.

I'm sorry but what you've written is pure ignorance. As someone said earlier, two scenes.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Matt Male

[Little-stevie]

Here we go again, funky soul played on the scene is mid-tempo. What a load of rubbish. You've listened to a lot of it? I doubt that very much. Why don't you get along to the Ton of Dynamite room at Gloucester and listen to set after set of up-tempo funky soul, RnB and Latin. I'm sick of people with no idea slagging off the venues that play these sounds.

I'm sorry but what you've written is pure ignorance.

Your reply Matt will start the funky debate again thats another topic of real passion but not the original question on this topic...

Just thought i would drop that in because you are sure to get a reply to your post mate....

[Guest Matt Male]

Your reply Matt will start the funky debate again thats another topic of real passion but not the original question on this topic...

Just thought i would drop that in because you are sure to get a reply to your post mate....

I can't even remember the original topic.

I've said everything I think on here many times before so no point saying it again. Mind you this thread does look like the scene finally breaking apart and to be honest that can only be a good thing. I think it's long over due that those of us who prefer the progressive side of things finally admit to ourselves that we will never lure back the oldies nostalgics (i'll have to look that word up) and should just let them get on with it. We sit around wondering why our nights are empty and the bootleg venue down the road is rammed but we should just stop worrying and just accept that that's the way it is now and probably will be for the forseeable future.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Matt Male

[hullsoul]

A honest responce gogs but your final statement says it all for me the rest is just stamp collecting .

So would that be a case of "What's In The Glue"

Cheers

Martyn

[Steve G]

The other dimension, as perhaps my learned Scottish banking friend was trying to suggest earlier via his cryptic comments, was that just because a venue plays OVO, it doesn't of itself make it good. The other ingredient is taste - playing good music, not poor music. Do all OV champions play good stuff? Without breathing life into the corpse of the 'playlist' thread from the other day, I'd think not.

[Little-stevie]

The other dimension, as perhaps my learned Scottish banking friend was trying to suggest earlier via his cryptic comments, was that just because a venue plays OVO, it doesn't of itself make it good. The other ingredient is taste - playing good music, not poor music. Do all OV champions play good stuff? Without breathing life into the corpse of the 'playlist' thread from the other day, I'd think not.

"Taste" ....."Good stuff"...... One mans dogs bollocks is another mans dog poo.... this topic too will drive the topic well away from the original question...

[Steve G]

"Taste" ....."Good stuff"...... One mans dogs bollocks is another mans dog poo.... this topic too will drive the topic well away from the original question...

Yeah but Steve, just playing OVO for the sake of it, proves nothing. Anyone can line up a playlist of obscure stuff, and to Jocko's point, they also need to be good records. Don't want a row about the myriad of different styles, and whether they're crap or not, but it is a relevant point I think. I've seen plenty of OV playlists of underplayed stuff which are as dull as ditchwater....sorry to say.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Steve G

[Guest Matt Male]

Yeah but Steve, just playing OVO for the sake of it, proves nothing. Anyone can line up a playlist of obscure stuff, and to Jocko's point, they also need to be good records. Don't want a row about the myriad of different styles, and whether they're crap or not, but it is a relevant point I think. I've seen plenty of OV playlists of underplayed stuff which are as dull as ditchwater....sorry to say.

I couldn't agree more with this. I can't think of anyone who I respect as a DJ that plays underplayed sounds on original vinyl just because it is original vinyl. Even those of us who prefer to use original vinyl should put the music first, otherwise what's the point?

[Guest rodw]

I can't understand anyone who would'nt want to listen to a record just because they had'nt heard it before...it would sound to me as if they had a mental age of 10, after all it's all Soul music...the only way I could understand it is if they did'nt like Soul music full stop.

[SOULCENTRAL]

EXACTLY THAT!

It is always a question of taste. That is personal taste of the individual concerned.........

That persons taste in;

Music

Genre

Venue

DJs

Dress sense etc.

ROY

[Guest Matt Male]

EXACTLY THAT!

It is always a question of taste. That is personal taste of the individual concerned.........

That persons taste in;

Music

Genre

Venue

DJs

Dress sense etc.

ROY

Unfortunately Roy we don't all live in bubbles and personal tastes and personal choices effect others. I agree it's up to anyone where they go and what they listen to and whether they prefer the oldies they know or the newies they don't. It's just that, in my opinion, the personal choices that most people have been making over the last ten years or so have slowly made this scene unrecognisable from the one I got into in the early 80s, when everyone (bar none) was looking for new stuff and the whole point of the scene was listening to exciting undiscovered soul music new to everyone's ears. Unfortunately that's not a choice the majority make any more, and that's sad in my opinion.

[SOULCENTRAL]

I couldn't agree more with this. I can't think of anyone who I respect as a DJ that plays underplayed sounds on original vinyl just because it is original vinyl. Even those of us who prefer to use original vinyl should put the music first, otherwise what's the point?

HI MATT,

There is also another issue here and that is the aspect of wether the dj plays the record on OVO just because it is as rare as rocking horse sh*t and would cost you 3 months salary to buy.

Attended a rare and underplayed event last year at which two of the guests on the night were regarded as being in the top 5 in the country, regularly appearing at the top nighters. I had not heard about 90% of the records they played but my dissapointment was evident in the fact that some of what was played was absolute dross but these dj's extolled the virtues of the records courtesy of the rarity and value of the records. which is bullshit and an insult to my intelligence.

The saving grace of the evening was the fact that the third dj of the evening came on and blew me away with what he played and again i probably knew only about 80% of what was on offer, that man was Arthur Fenn!.

That evening i expected to listen to OVO and i knew that would be the case, but listening to dross being portrayed as great soul music because of its rarity and value, i did not expect. But then again its down to my own personal choice!

ROY

[Guest rodw]

EXACTLY THAT!

It is always a question of taste. That is personal taste of the individual concerned.........

That persons taste in;

Music

Genre

Venue

DJs

Dress sense etc.

ROY

I was only talking about music...nothing else. I will say again...if you hav'nt listened to a record whatever genre of Soul, how do you know if you like it or not...simples ???

[SOULCENTRAL]

I was only talking about music...nothing else. I will say again...if you hav'nt listened to a record whatever genre of Soul, how do you know if you like it or not...simples ???

Rod,

Was not directing my post against your reply. It was in response to some earlier posts on page one which seemed to tarnish all people who aline themselves with particular genres, with the same brush. My point was that everyone is individual and as such there will always be divided opinion and diverse views on the emotive subject that is soul.

ROY

[Wiggyflat]

I always shy away from gigs advertised as rare soul ....bad memories of four oclock sets that had me scurrying to Ritz bank holiday dayers as soon as they started.Listened to some rare soul podcasts recently and the music is still bad....but I don't want to listen to the same old northern either.....

[Roger Williams]

Listened to some rare soul podcasts recently and the music is still bad....

It's rare for a reason!!

[Guest rodw]

I agree but wherever you go whether it be an Oldies, Newies, etc etc etc...there will always be an element of records you like & don't like, everybody can say that about any Soul do...the point that I'm trying to make is, the willingness to listen. Just wish that many more people especially from the Oldies, Classics (however you want to describe it) only sector would just try to listen to records not so familiar & judge individually on merit. Nobody likes every record at every Soul do they go to...& all dos are different, probably far more so on the Rare & Underplayed side because most dj's are constantly looking for different records to play but in saying that, any Oldies only regular would recognise a fair amount of tunes played at a Rare & Underplayed do....& many would also probably say " Corr, hav'nt heard that for years " on many occasions if they went along to a Rare & Underplayed nite....say, now & again.

[SallieJane]

I always shy away from gigs advertised as rare soul ....bad memories of four oclock sets that had me scurrying to Ritz bank holiday dayers as soon as they started.Listened to some rare soul podcasts recently and the music is still bad....but I don't want to listen to the same old northern either.....

You're obviously going to the wrong allniters then !!!

[Steve G]

It's rare for a reason!!

Predictable as ever Roger!

[Guest Bearsy]

It's rare for a reason!!

its what the scene was built on and 99% of most peoples faves are the rarest of the rare are they not

[Guest Bearsy]

I always shy away from gigs advertised as rare soul ....bad memories of four oclock sets that had me scurrying to Ritz bank holiday dayers as soon as they started.Listened to some rare soul podcasts recently and the music is still bad....but I don't want to listen to the same old northern either.....

So Wiggy are you going to shy away from the gig your djn at thats advertised in your signature

[Roger Williams]

its what the scene was built on and 99% of most peoples faves are the rarest of the rare are they not

I'm not disputing that mate, I was replying to Wiggyflat's post where he said the music was bad, which I personally agree with in a lot of instances. Fluorescent Smogg is a big favourite of many people, I think it's utter garbage, just to give an example.

Just one opinion, that's all.

[Bazza]

its what the scene was built on and 99% of most peoples faves are the rarest of the rare are they not

Not quite rite but " your a young boy you've got a lot to learn, reach out " quote from little old man - Bill Cosby "

Bazza

[Sebastian]

Does anyone on here actually say that they only play "rare soul" or only like "rare soul"?

"Rare soul" is not a genre.

By a lot of peoples posts in this thread it sounds as if they think that soul records that are rare/scarce -- i.e. "rare soul" -- has got a specific sound or style.

That's just ridiculous.

The northern soul scene has always concerned itself with rare records.

Most of the best-loved tunes on the northern soul scene are in the grand scheme of things rare/scarce 45s on their original release.

[Guest Bearsy]

I'm not disputing that mate, I was replying to Wiggyflat's post where he said the music was bad, which I personally agree with in a lot of instances. Fluorescent Smogg is a big favourite of many people, I think it's utter garbage, just to give an example.

Just one opinion, that's all.

I AGREE

[Guest Bearsy]

Not quite rite but " your a young boy you've got a lot to learn, reach out " quote from little old man - Bill Cosby "

Bazza

Sorry Bazza i didnt realise it was built on popular music Bill Cosby.... now your talking

[Guest Bearsy]

Does anyone on here actually say that they only play "rare soul" or only like "rare soul"?

"Rare soul" is not a genre.

By a lot of peoples posts in this thread it sounds as if they think that soul records that are rare/scarce -- i.e. "rare soul" -- has got a specific sound or style.

That's just ridiculous.

The northern soul scene has always concerned itself with rare records.

Most of the best-loved tunes on the northern soul scene are in the grand scheme of things rare/scarce 45s on their original release.

Thats what i thought too but im too young to know anyway eh Bazza

[Bazza]

Sorry Bazza i didnt realise it was built on popular music Bill Cosby.... now your talking

Well Bill Cosby is not, never was rare but was played in the early days ,many tunes played were not rare

reggae ska R&B and uptempo soul stuff was all part of it ,the scene did not start on "rare records"

Bazza

[Guest Bearsy]

Well Bill Cosby is not, never was rare but was played in the early days ,many tunes played were not rare

reggae ska R&B and uptempo soul stuff was all part of it ,the scene did not start on "rare records"

Bazza

Hi Bazza long time no chat hope your well matey i wasnt even born when the scene started not disputing what was play when the scene started i just thought that the scene was built and developed over the years by the Rare Records the top djs strived to own and play to the masses to make them stand out from the other djs which inturn many became most if not all soulies faves

[Winnie :-)]

Well Bill Cosby is not, never was rare but was played in the early days ,many tunes played were not rare

reggae ska R&B and uptempo soul stuff was all part of it ,the scene did not start on "rare records"

Bazza

I'd say that what has now become known as the ''northern/rare soul'' scene, started because there was a natural need for a generation of youngsters to rebel against the music of their parents. The initial rarity inference would have come from the fact that the records were very difficult to get hold of, rarity nowadays is a much more factual reference. Somebody said earlier in the thread, there are too many DJs playing under the ''rare'' banner, the inference being, that they just couldn't cut the mustard, which to me means, we're likely to be listening to someone's personal take on northern, rather than our own. All well and good if the records played are hitting the spot, not so much if they don't.

Winnie

[Steve G]

I'm not disputing that mate, I was replying to Wiggyflat's post where he said the music was bad, which I personally agree with in a lot of instances. Fluorescent Smogg is a big favourite of many people, I think it's utter garbage, just to give an example.

Just one opinion, that's all.

I AGREE

:rolleyes:

[Wiggyflat]

Reply to Bearsy... Got asked to dj and I will be playing uptempo northern including 4 unreleased tracks that nobody has heard that do cut the mustard...when I do my own gigs in Southend its all uptempo northern....no r and b no Latin no xover no boogaloo.Regarding rare soul....I have listened to various podcasts etc etc but I find I just don't like rare soul but I do like northern.I can see why oldies gigs are full and rare soul gigs have low numbers ....

[Winnie :-)]

Reply to Bearsy... Got asked to dj and I will be playing uptempo northern including 4 unreleased tracks that nobody has heard that do cut the mustard...when I do my own gigs in Southend its all uptempo northern....no r and b no Latin no xover no boogaloo.Regarding rare soul....I have listened to various podcasts etc etc but I find I just don't like rare soul but I do like northern.I can see why oldies gigs are full and rare soul gigs have low numbers ....

If you haven't played them out yet, how do you know they cut it?

[Wiggyflat]

I have had acetates in the past which I think don't cut it ....I stuck one on my YouTube channel Honey child by Zola Taylor ....I don't think it is good enough to play out.Listen yourself ....and I had 6 tracks cut from these reel to reels but two are not up to par but the other 4 are...great productions....uptempo....quality northern soul.

[Ged Parker]

Regarding rare soul....I have listened to various podcasts etc etc but I find I just don't like rare soul

I had 6 tracks cut from these reel to reels but two are not up to par but the other 4 are...great productions....uptempo....quality northern soul.

Are you saying you had these tracks cut to acetate but they're not rare?

[Pete S]

If you haven't played them out yet, how do you know they cut it?

What's he meant to do, play them to a panel of judges first?

Someone's got to be brave enough to go with their instincts haven't they?

[Pete S]

If you haven't played them out yet, how do you know they cut it?

duplicate post

Edited June 22, 2012 by Pete S

[Spacehopper]

What's he meant to do, play them to a panel of judges first?

Someone's got to be brave enough to go with their instincts haven't they?

we wouldnt have a lot of the oldies we have today if it was not for djs doin precisely that!....so many 'northern' soul oldies are not northern in the strict sense of the genre...famously carstairs,bob relf,world column..emptied floors ay first were not four to the floor uptempo 60s

thats the mental thing...oldies only fans saying we shouldnt have funky or rnb and things they dont know...WEVE ALWAYS HAD SOME FUNKY,RNB AND THINGS WE DIDNT KNOW...THE SCENE HASNT CHANGED...THE MUSIC ALWAYS HAS!!...and you have!

dean

[Guest Seagrave]

Let's just get this into perspective. At a northern soul event there really is no excuse for playing anything other than original vinyl, and it is the promoters who are to blame for not booking the DJs who have the records.

If I may use the north east as an example (and I'm pretty sure the point will hold true for the north west, London, east midlands, Yorkshire, west midlands etc. as well); within the three counties of Durham, Tyne & Wear and Northumberland (apologies for not including the smoggies, but you're historically Yorkshire!) there are many DJs here who have the genuine records that the punters want to hear.

That includes classics, crossover, underplayed, rare, 70s, Motown, R&B - up-tempo or mid-tempo - and covers virtually any record you might want to hear.

There is no need to book 'Johnny Bootleg' to play the Tomangoes, Sandi Sheldon, Freddie Chavez, Salvadors, Eddie Parker, Gwen Owens, Al Williams, J.D. Bryant, Yum Yums, Mel Britt, or anything else the oldies/classics brigade might want to hear as part of a night out because:

... and listen up here promoters ...

THERE ARE DJs IN YOUR VICINITY, WITH THE REAL THING, WHO WILL GLADLY PLAY THOSE RECORDS FOR YOU!

It is well known who those DJs are too, so it's not exactly difficult to contact them. Just tell them, when you book them, what it is you need from your event.

Oh, and in case someone out there thinks that it must be the marvelous crowd-pleasing personalities of our bootleggy friends which wins the day for them, well, think again - I've heard them, and believe me they don't exactly set the microphone (let alone the turntables!) alight with their 'compelling'(?!?) stage presence.

[Wiggyflat]

The reel to reels were on 3 quarter tape so I had them mastered and had carvers made up as I ain't carting and cueing up reel to reel machines....the Zola Taylor acetate I bought but its not really up to scratch I feel for playing out.Re the list of records earlier....they are all quality ...and that us the crux of it quality control...not just playing something for rarities sake.Btw Bob Relf I would class as a typical northern sound.

[Russ Vickers]

I cant understand why rare soul is being talked about as a genre, not only that but almost used as an insult, wasnt the scene referred to as a rare soul scene even before the term NS was coined, many genres come under the banner of RARE SOUL including traditional NS....its just that some people prefer this term, because it disasscotiates them from what they consider to be the naff side of the NS scene.....Im gob smacked by peoples ignorance sometimes, its almost unbeleivable at times....

Best Russ

[tim smithers]

Let's just get this into perspective. At a northern soul event there really is no excuse for playing anything other than original vinyl, and it is the promoters who are to blame for not booking the DJs who have the records.

If I may use the north east as an example (and I'm pretty sure the point will hold true for the north west, London, east midlands, Yorkshire, west midlands etc. as well); within the three counties of Durham, Tyne & Wear and Northumberland (apologies for not including the smoggies, but you're historically Yorkshire!) there are many DJs here who have the genuine records that the punters want to hear.

That includes classics, crossover, underplayed, rare, 70s, Motown, R&B - up-tempo or mid-tempo - and covers virtually any record you might want to hear.

There is no need to book 'Johnny Bootleg' to play the Tomangoes, Sandi Sheldon, Freddie Chavez, Salvadors, Eddie Parker, Gwen Owens, Al Williams, J.D. Bryant, Yum Yums, Mel Britt, or anything else the oldies/classics brigade might want to hear as part of a night out because:

... and listen up here promoters ...

THERE ARE DJs IN YOUR VICINITY, WITH THE REAL THING, WHO WILL GLADLY PLAY THOSE RECORDS FOR YOU!

It is well known who those DJs are too, so it's not exactly difficult to contact them. Just tell them, when you book them, what it is you need from your event.

Oh, and in case someone out there thinks that it must be the marvelous crowd-pleasing personalities of our bootleggy friends which wins the day for them, well, think again - I've heard them, and believe me they don't exactly set the microphone (let alone the turntables!) alight with their 'compelling'(?!?) stage presence.

Most promoters who allow bootlegs are also djs that cant get spots because of playing bootlegs, chicken and the egg

[Russ Vickers]

I cant believe we all continue to debate a subject, that actually doesnt & shoudnt need discussion...it just is....your either right or wrong, could you imagine having this discussion 15 years ago, it would have been a relative non starter....doesnt that tell us all something.......the debate for not playing from original format of release...generally comes from folk who dont understsnd, dont care or have a vested interest.

Russ

Edited June 22, 2012 by Russ Vickers

[Bazza]

I cant understand why rare soul is being talked about as a genre, not only that but almost used as an insult, wasnt the scene referred to as a rare soul scene even before the term NS was coined, many genres come under the banner of RARE SOUL including traditional NS....its just that some people prefer this term, because it disasscotiates them from what they consider to be the naff side of the NS scene.....Im gob smacked by peoples ignorance sometimes, its almost unbeleivable at times....

Best Russ

I dont think it was,club soul would be more like it,in my day

Bazza

[Pete S]

I dont think it was,club soul would be more like it,in my day

Bazza

Deleted Soul was one version.

[Guest Seagrave]

Most promoters who allow bootlegs are also djs that cant get spots because of playing bootlegs, chicken and the egg

That is also true, and another reason why promoters are to blame (and, following Pete's point earlier, contributing to the 'too many DJs' factor).

Principles, standards, integrity ... sadly in short supply.

[jocko]

Reply to Bearsy... Got asked to dj and I will be playing uptempo northern including 4 unreleased tracks that nobody has heard that do cut the mustard...when I do my own gigs in Southend its all uptempo northern....no r and b no Latin no xover no boogaloo.Regarding rare soul....I have listened to various podcasts etc etc but I find I just don't like rare soul but I do like northern.I can see why oldies gigs are full and rare soul gigs have low numbers ....

So if you like it its Northern if you don't like it its Rare. Very factual and dare I say rather bollocks.

I have been meaning to ask for ages how you can tell something is Rare just by listening to it but thanks for clearing that up!

No surprise the most sensible post on this knocking Pete off is Sebastians, one of our European cousins.

This post reiterates my view, stop worrying about FatWiggy and his likes they are irrelevant and always will be to the progressive world, stop worrying about the 1000's dancing to whatever they like and know, its a scene that has as little in common with what I was into as Doo Wop or Rockabilly scenes.

Start worrying about the people who think it is cool to put on a room for their 40 mates, telling everyone they are into "Rare and Underplayed" but don't have a clue on how to articulate that. I now f***king hate that saying because of on here.

Just thinking your cool isn't getting it!

Start worrying about supporting half a dozen top DJ's that have top end kit, there aren't many more than that despite what the 4562 "rare and underplayed" DJ's keep telling themselves.