The Right To Reply

[Russ Vickers]

In response to a post on another thread, I wrote this reply:

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Roger Williams in reply wrote 'Drama Queen'

Now altho we havnt seen each other for some years, I class Roger as a friend. I know Rogers feelings on such things & I respect them, however Roger writes from the perspective of a Modern Soul fan looking in on the NS Scene, my comments were aimed directly at the Northern scene & have very little do with the Modern scene. I stick by my guns & would add that if you pop over to EMS you may think that the same comment 'Drama Queen' could be applied when he who cannot be named (2) along with others in a left field way, make comment on the previous thread on this subject....its obvious that regardless of what is said on SS it hit a nerve, cos said person obviously feels he should comment, albeit in a round about way. Its a pity that the legend couldnt respond in person on SS.

Please feel free to lock this thread now I have replied.

Many thanks

Russ

[Pete S]

Are you talking about Ian Levine?

[Peter99]

Are you talking about Ian Levine?

Colin Curtis I think

[Guest Seagrave]

Sorry, not quite with it, and I'm sure the answer's obvious, but what is EMS?

[Pete S]

Sorry, not quite with it, and I'm sure the answer's obvious, but what is EMS?

Essential Modern Soul.

A misnomer if ever there was one

[Steve G]

Hi Russ,

I think you are picking the wrong fight here.

The principles you put forward are those in play on the rare soul scene and long may they continue there. Boots, CDs, IPads don't feature - end of.

They have NOT been the principles on the modern scene since the mid 1980s (Rock City etc.), and are NO LONGER the principles in very large parts of the northern scene (probably since the late 90s).

The guy I think you are talking about does more to promote black music in this country each and every month than many of the billy bunters who put on northern nights, then happily play bootlegs of Wigan oldies. Isn't it those billy bunters who don't contribute that you should be targeting your anger at? (And before anyone jumps in I do know there are some oldies venues that stick to OVO).

But before you do I can tell you now you are wasting your fingertips, the majority of the northern scene these days is about listening to well known records, finding out where to buy the best repro soul patches, and a social craic. The record collecting side of it is now very much a minority, and most of it is done on the internet anyway.

Based on your views Russ I think you should stick to rare soul, that's where you'll find unchallenged principles of OVO.

And if you want to go to a club night with a current DJ who is doing a one off oldies set based on his past reputation / discoveries, don't expect it to be on OV, cos it won't be.

Steve

Edited June 20, 2012 by Steve G

[Guest Seagrave]

Essential Modern Soul.

A misnomer if ever there was one

Thanks Pete, and I understand your sentiments!

[Harrythedog]

Russ is spot on with his thread, but iam afraid hes wasting his time. The rare soul scene today which carries forward the ideals when we started all those years ago makes up around 20% of the venues today. This is made up of a crowd which believes in moving forward and listing to underplayed and new dicoveries on vinyl, and generally supported by people who have always supported the scene through the years, never had a break due to marriage, kids, mortgage etc. The other 80% is a revival, fancy dress piss up, who want everything to be just how it was when they last went in 1980. Get dressed how they think we used to dress, get the badges and listen to the same 60 records they knew back then-and they always spout the same old line that they Kept The Faith. If it wasnt so tragic it would be funny. One thing though the rare soul scene at present is as near to an underground movement as it was all those years ago.

[Phild]

Russ is spot on with his thread, but iam afraid hes wasting his time. The rare soul scene today which carries forward the ideals when we started all those years ago makes up around 20% of the venues today. This is made up of a crowd which believes in moving forward and listing to underplayed and new dicoveries on vinyl, and generally supported by people who have always supported the scene through the years, never had a break due to marriage, kids, mortgage etc. The other 80% is a revival, fancy dress piss up, who want everything to be just how it was when they last went in 1980. Get dressed how they think we used to dress, get the badges and listen to the same 60 records they knew back then-and they always spout the same old line that they Kept The Faith. If it wasnt so tragic it would be funny. One thing though the rare soul scene at present is as near to an underground movement as it was all those years ago.

Sadly all too true.

I too am very disillusioned with the scene at present (again), precisely because of this.

I love oldies too but can't bear it when people play them on bootlegs. If you have to play bootlegs, don't play at all.

[Russ Vickers]

Hi Russ,

I think you are picking the wrong fight here.

The principles you put forward are those in play on the rare soul scene and long may they continue there. Boots, CDs, IPads don't feature - end of.

They have NOT been the principles on the modern scene since the mid 1980s (Rock City etc.), and are NO LONGER the principles in very large parts of the northern scene (probably since the late 90s).

The guy I think you are talking about does more to promote black music in this country each and every month than many of the billy bunters who put on northern nights, then happily play bootlegs of Wigan oldies. Isn't it those billy bunters who don't contribute that you should be targeting your anger at? (And before anyone jumps in I do know there are some oldies venues that stick to OVO).

But before you do I can tell you now you are wasting your fingertips, the majority of the northern scene these days is about listening to well known records, finding out where to buy the best repro soul patches, and a social craic. The record collecting side of it is now very much a minority, and most of it is done on the internet anyway.

Based on your views Russ I think you should stick to rare soul, that's where you'll find unchallenged principles of OVO.

And if you want to go to a club night with a current DJ who is doing a one off oldies set based on his past reputation / discoveries, don't expect it to be on OV, cos it won't be.

Steve

Colin Curtis was a NS legend, his current Modern Soul sets I believe are still hugely inspirational. I think by doing the nostalgia circuit playing from CD the man is doing himself a massive injustice, I just dont understand why anyone would feel the need to do this, add to this the way it is defended & justified by others then Im just mystified.

I would also add that I am not angry, just disappointed & frustrated....Im at a loss as to how anyone can defend some of the current practices, not only that, but it seems to be generally exceptable....if you question this, you become the brunt of all kinds of stuff, when essentially your right....whats happened to make this not only exceptable, but almost the norm, were the divs are running the show, re writing history & watering down the essence of Rare Soul.

Russ

[KevH]

Out of the ashes ......something's stirring,i can feel it in my water.Year Zero approaching?

[Russ Vickers]

There still some venues & DJ's doin the right thing...I will continue to support these oasis's of Rare Soul as much as I can...that is what is truly Keepin the Faith.....

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

Out of the ashes ......something's stirring,i can feel it in my water.Year Zero approaching?

Yes, yes, yes....I know it will, we've done it before & we will do it again....when its imploded, the scene will re invent itseld & get back to the basics of what it is really about.....

Russ

[Phild]

There still some venues & DJ's doin the right thing...I will continue to support these oasis's of Rare Soul as much as I can...that is what is truly Keepin the Faith.....

Russ

There are.But the venues that do "keep the faith" are usually not very busy which sometimes makes for a lack of atmosphere.

Also, I find that a lot of right minded venues won't play classy oldies either. I like a good mix of old (not overplayed BTW) and new, just so long as its on original vinyl.

[Harrythedog]

Year zero has been before and it will come again. Dont worry the revival brigade will destroy it and leave again in their droves. Bring it on, the sooner the better. Seen this happen in 77 and it will happen again.

[SallieJane]

Depressing reading...but all too true !!! So sad when the true ethos of the scene gets dilluted to the top 100, and many reissues and bootlegs at that, with people rushing to hand over their cash to relive their nostalgia trips. Sure there's a place for oldies nights (but ONLY underplayed for me please).

With regards to allniters, personally I only want to hear rare and underplayed, and certainly nothing from the NS soul charts even if it is OVO. But seems my opinions are in the minority today. Perhaps I should just get out my circular skirt and ankle socks and start twirling round the dance floor or better still take up knitting !!!

[Guest Matt Male]

Russ is spot on with his thread, but iam afraid hes wasting his time. The rare soul scene today which carries forward the ideals when we started all those years ago makes up around 20% of the venues today. This is made up of a crowd which believes in moving forward and listing to underplayed and new dicoveries on vinyl, and generally supported by people who have always supported the scene through the years, never had a break due to marriage, kids, mortgage etc. The other 80% is a revival, fancy dress piss up, who want everything to be just how it was when they last went in 1980. Get dressed how they think we used to dress, get the badges and listen to the same 60 records they knew back then-and they always spout the same old line that they Kept The Faith. If it wasnt so tragic it would be funny. One thing though the rare soul scene at present is as near to an underground movement as it was all those years ago.

I don't know who you are are Harry, but if we haven't met yet I feel we should have done and when we do can I shake you by the hand?

[Steve G]

Russ is spot on with his thread, but iam afraid hes wasting his time. The rare soul scene today which carries forward the ideals when we started all those years ago makes up around 20% of the venues today. This is made up of a crowd which believes in moving forward and listing to underplayed and new dicoveries on vinyl, and generally supported by people who have always supported the scene through the years, never had a break due to marriage, kids, mortgage etc. The other 80% is a revival, fancy dress piss up, who want everything to be just how it was when they last went in 1980. Get dressed how they think we used to dress, get the badges and listen to the same 60 records they knew back then-and they always spout the same old line that they Kept The Faith. If it wasnt so tragic it would be funny. One thing though the rare soul scene at present is as near to an underground movement as it was all those years ago.

Very true in many areas.

However in other areas there's hardly anywhere to go at all.....maybe one soul night a month or quarter....and a long drive..... where a bit of everything style wise needs to get mixed in to keep everyone happy.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Steve G

[sir cumference]

Depressing reading...but all too true !!! So sad when the true ethos of the scene gets dilluted to the top 100, and many reissues and bootlegs at that, with people rushing to hand over their cash to relive their nostalgia trips. Sure there's a place for oldies nights (but ONLY underplayed for me please).

With regards to allniters, personally I only want to hear rare and underplayed, and certainly nothing from the NS soul charts even if it is OVO. But seems my opinions are in the minority today. Perhaps I should just get out my circular skirt and ankle socks and start twirling round the dance floor or better still take up knitting !!!

Guess you ain`t been to the Kings Hall,Stoke in the last few years then.Why do you(and maybe others)think that the TOP DJ on the northern scene doesn`t frequent it anymore.It`s stale!It`s almost a parody-but it`s friggin packed!

So maybe it`s me and a few others?

[Guest BAKUNIN]

Due to personal circumstances I have been away from the soul scene for over a year and have been on the outside looking in as it were..

not going out except on a rare occasion but mainly watching from a distance and reading on here.

Have to say it doesnt look very good from here.

Asked myself the other day whether I still wanted to spend my Saturday night/Sunday morning doing this anymore.

Decided first why I went in first place...to hear something (obviously not everything) that I hadnt heard before and with it the buzz and desire(for the the most part completely unrealistic) to maybe own that rare or underplayed piece of vinyl.

Also went deeper though..wanted to share my experiences with other like-minded folk on my wavelength...

Afraid now however that I will only attend a very select (my opinion)few nighters where I can still not only hear that elusive tune but also still "feel" that special exclusivity type atmosphere....underground feel if you like

I mentioned above that it doesnt look very good from here...there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of dos everywhere frequented by people who are enjoying themselves as they should be but just because they are described as soul dos does not mean that they cater for me and my definition of same

If I go out to hear music that I can play in the car on the way to a do why the f..k am I going?

The scene is imploding or rather disintegrating into its constituent parts.

That small rare and underplayed part is hanging on though so theres still hope....

My own little rare soul club is the answer otherwise in 5 years time I will have nowhere to go!

As for the main point of this thread ..yes OVO only otherwise it is what it is fast becoming in certain quarters...A sham

[Dave Moore]

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.

Russ,

U meks oiy laaaaarf!

Regards,

Dave

[Russ Vickers]

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.

Russ,

U meks oiy laaaaarf!

Regards,

Dave

I know Dave & I know your only messin with me, but I cant leave it alone mate, if we leave it they have won & that cant happen, some of us have to speak out, even if its an ongoing debate that becomes boring, we cant just ignore it & let things become 'normal' we have to try to keep the original ethos alive for the next generation of Rare Soul events other wise its doomed mate, hope you are well buddy.

Russ

[Dave Moore]

I know Dave & I know your only messin with me, but I cant leave it alone mate, if we leave it they have won & that cant happen, some of us have to speak out, even if its an ongoing debate that becomes boring, we cant just ignore it & let things become 'normal' we have to try to keep the original ethos alive for the next generation of Rare Soul events other wise its doomed mate, hope you are well buddy.

Russ

Russ,

We'll never be 'normal' Mate. In fact I'll make you a promise.... If you do ever become 'normal', I'll pop round and un-normalise you miself.

Rare soul will never become 'doomed' Matey. It's alive n kickin' just as long as we enjoy it. .

Now then...... back to mi cheesecake!

Regards,

Dave

[Dekka]

There are 'Soul' nights that even have a disclaimer stating that

'what you are paying for is boot and re-issue'

I kid you not, unbelievable.

Talk about fighting against the tide, even King Canute wouldn't bother.

OVO,or BIN IT

[sir cumference]

There are 'Soul' nights that even have a disclaimer stating that

'what you are paying for is boot and re-issue'

I kid you not, unbelievable.

Talk about fighting against the tide, even King Canute wouldn't bother.

OVO,or BIN IT

Never in all my born days!

[Guest Brett F]

I think there are enough venues playing with the original vinyl only ethic, but perhaps the tunes played are more varied and not essentially traditional 'Northern ' nights' just a few i've been too in say the last 12 months Dab of Soul (Nantwich), Soul or Nothing, Different Strokes (Manchester), Driving Beat (Leeds) Just Soul, Soul Essence (Gt Yarmouth ), Hamburg Weekender, Aachen Weekender, Bamberg (ok European and perhaps not relevant to the UK scene), Manchester Euro Soul weekender, Filthy Soul (London), Morecambe and Clacton Weekenders, Horse and Groom (Doncaster )etc etc..But these venues embrace soul music and yes most veer toward 70's rare soul, many aren't massive clubs but all respected among punters, collectors and Dj's. It seems to me just by reading the events section in this forum alone there seems a myriad of Northern Soul nights in bars, clubs pubs, and the UK soul scene seems saturated with people who put on and play there own records...i don't see anything wrong with that at all, each to their own, the bottom line for me is that with a bit of detective work and actually visiting places, listening to dj's you soon make a choice on what you want. The last time i went to what i call a regular calendar monthly progressive rare soul nighter was Lifeline last year, i think it's common knowledge that they and the 100 club are at the front of their field. My own scene is probably more underground than most (70's/ crossover) but it's a minority genre i know that but it lives by the ethics Russ Vickers pleads for (Russ knows and has visited some of the aforementioned venues). The nostalgia Northern scene seems healthy but it isn't for me, but that's a personal choice i like different music, i think both of the 60's soul scenes can just go about their own thing, occasionally their paths will cross some may choose one camp over another...Make your choices and be happy with them.

My two penneth.....

[Ted Massey]

Guess you ain`t been to the Kings Hall,Stoke in the last few years then.Why do you(and maybe others)think that the TOP DJ on the northern scene doesn`t frequent it anymore.It`s stale!It`s almost a parody-but it`s friggin packed!

So maybe it`s me and a few others?

Ive heard some of the best music ever in the Windsor suite and thats normally packed as well

[Billywhizz]

There are 'Soul' nights that even have a disclaimer stating that

'what you are paying for is boot and re-issue'

I kid you not, unbelievable.

Talk about fighting against the tide, even King Canute wouldn't bother.

OVO,or BIN IT

hey up dekka, ive seen ur playlist today that would stand any top nighter, 100 club lifeline etc etc. cheers billy

[Billywhizz]

In response to a post on another thread, I wrote this reply:

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Roger Williams in reply wrote 'Drama Queen'

Now altho we havnt seen each other for some years, I class Roger as a friend. I know Rogers feelings on such things & I respect them, however Roger writes from the perspective of a Modern Soul fan looking in on the NS Scene, my comments were aimed directly at the Northern scene & have very little do with the Modern scene. I stick by my guns & would add that if you pop over to EMS you may think that the same comment 'Drama Queen' could be applied when he who cannot be named (2) along with others in a left field way, make comment on the previous thread on this subject....its obvious that regardless of what is said on SS it hit a nerve, cos said person obviously feels he should comment, albeit in a round about way. Its a pity that the legend couldnt respond in person on SS.

Please feel free to lock this thread now I have replied.

Many thanks

Russ

Hey Russ i spoke to you at the start of the year at rugby, i put my hands up you got to be one of the most passionate chaps on the scene today and in your post it shows it as dave moore says "wheels of the bus go round and round" keep on keeping on billy

[SOULCENTRAL]

I know Dave & I know your only messin with me, but I cant leave it alone mate, if we leave it they have won & that cant happen, some of us have to speak out, even if its an ongoing debate that becomes boring, we cant just ignore it & let things become 'normal' we have to try to keep the original ethos alive for the next generation of Rare Soul events other wise its doomed mate, hope you are well buddy.

Russ

HI RUSS,

There does not relly need to be a winner in all this!. I appreciate you are passionate about your own personal genre of music and the venues at which it is played, but the bottom line is each to their own and be happy with it( as Brett says).

An earlier post quoted "nostalgia northern nights" as an 80% fancy dress night which i think is well overboard although the people who dress a la 1976 and onwards do look somewhat ridiculous, although again each to their own.

Regretfully the rare and underplayed element of the soul scene at this moment in time is well in the minority and will stay that way for some time to come as numbers are decreasing in attendance. There are not too many sounds played here that do eventually find there way, and become established, at mainstream classic northern nights.

Personally i like all elements that make up the soul scene (with the exception of r&b). Most classic northern nights are frequented by people who are there for their love of dancing ,the music and social gathering and they are not too bothered about which medium delivers that package. Rare and underplayed, 70s and crossover are 99% OVO and that will be set in stone for years to come and the people visiting these venues are avid OVO punters, record collectors etc.

Will the soul scene as we know it implode?, possibly but you can feel something stirring.

Will there be a next generation waiting in the wings?,they are already there but are getting p*ss*ed off with not getting a chance to play at some of the R & U events so are doing their own thing.

A solution would be for all promotors to insist on OVO at their events. This would cut down the number of classic northern nights down by about 80% but we all know this just is not going to happen.

ROY

[Wilxy]

I must say that I totally agree with Russ from an ethos perspective, and whilst I have utmost respect for Dj's who were both pioneers of "our" scene and of great influence, sell the" tools of your trade", and "were" is the operative word.....There are many more with the enthusiasm that you once posessed, and it all moves on, and I speak from a collectors perspective,and "no longer a wanna be DJ"

[Guest rodw]

Personally unless the records played at your venue are OVO...then you should'nt be allowed to advertise on Soul Source. This might upset a fair few people but at least the scene will be kept underground & be advertised as such....just a thought ?? Can't see it happening tho...but the general scene is turning into a circus as far as I can see, so glad their is a real backbone left of people that really do care about the way things are going. Only sad thing is, is that they are the minority these days unfortunately.....

Great thread Russ Vickers, you are definately in the minority category !!!

Nice one mate

Rod

[Guest giant]

In response to a post on another thread, I wrote this reply:

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Roger Williams in reply wrote 'Drama Queen'

Now altho we havnt seen each other for some years, I class Roger as a friend. I know Rogers feelings on such things & I respect them, however Roger writes from the perspective of a Modern Soul fan looking in on the NS Scene, my comments were aimed directly at the Northern scene & have very little do with the Modern scene. I stick by my guns & would add that if you pop over to EMS you may think that the same comment 'Drama Queen' could be applied when he who cannot be named (2) along with others in a left field way, make comment on the previous thread on this subject....its obvious that regardless of what is said on SS it hit a nerve, cos said person obviously feels he should comment, albeit in a round about way. Its a pity that the legend couldnt respond in person on SS.

Please feel free to lock this thread now I have replied.

Many thanks

Russ

Russ you are spot on with your tread ' i 100% agree with what you say and my argument is same as you play original or don't bother calling you self a DJ playing boots and re-issue have no knowledge about real soul music .

and yes we are in the minority.

[Raremusicdirect]

Almost two seperate scenes now :

Oldies ; majority supported and hugely popular ; large venues and crowds ; some OVO, some don't be too fussy

Rare ; minority supported/ lower numbers ; small venues and most know each other ; OVO only

Not many events can successfully cater for the two in one room - maybe thats a thing of the past..........

We all like different elements and take our choices...............

[Guest Bearsy]

Money ego fame 1st. Music 2nd

[Roger Williams]

Money ego fame 1st. Music 2nd

Format 1st. Music 2nd.

That's actually no better than your version.

[Guest Gogs]

OK i will be the first to admit that i've played bootlegs and re-issues, it was at a small pub where we put on a monthly nite, but the policy was anything goes.Fast forward 5 years i was resident at a "proper" soul nite that was ovo only so that was what i played, later i joined the Hibs club "Heaven in the afternon" all dayers with a strict ovo policy and that was when i had to start buying again as i only had a 5-6 hundred originals at the time. I've now got 1100 and would not even dream about playing anything else. But i've done other nites as a guest and not everybody has the same policy. BUT i will still get up to dance. Its whats in the grooves that count imho.

[Quinvy]

Format 1st. Music 2nd.

That's actually no better than your version.

That's actually very profound.

[pikeys dog]

later i joined the Hibs club "Heaven in the afternon" all dayers with a strict ovo policy and that was when i had to start buying again as i only had a 5-6 hundred originals at the time. I've now got 1100 and would not even dream about playing anything else.

Fcuk me, how many hours were you DJing for?

[barney]

OK i will be the first to admit that i've played bootlegs and re-issues, it was at a small pub where we put on a monthly nite, but the policy was anything goes.Fast forward 5 years i was resident at a "proper" soul nite that was ovo only so that was what i played, later i joined the Hibs club "Heaven in the afternon" all dayers with a strict ovo policy and that was when i had to start buying again as i only had a 5-6 hundred originals at the time. I've now got 1100 and would not even dream about playing anything else. But i've done other nites as a guest and not everybody has the same policy. BUT i will still get up to dance. Its whats in the grooves that count imho.

A honest responce gogs but your final statement says it all for me the rest is just stamp collecting .

[Guest Gogs]

Fcuk me, how many hours were you DJing for?

Only a hour or maybe two but i hate playing the same tracks at the same venue in the same year. As i don;t dj much nowadays i can get away with it.You've also got to remember that although some tracks can go down well at most venues not all are suitable everywhere ie Northern nites, oldies nites, modern nites & across the board nites. I'm sure it used to be easier

[Md Records]

Running or attending a cheesy Motown/Soul night isn't yet a crime, 200 folk paying a fiver to dance the night away to Supremes/Vicki Sue Robinson/Temptations is a happy night for everyone concerned. A night like this has F*** all to do with the scene that this web site promotes, and there's no point in dragging out vinyl to an event like this - it takes up too much space, you can carry more tracks, therefore you can cater for requests, and nobody gives a F***. Now as a would be promoter of events like these (that surprisingly are still not illegal - ) I can advertise on this site FOR FREE and call it "across the board Motown and Soul" - so do you think it's right that nights like the one I describe CAN be hyped on this site. I have no problem with "handbag soul" nights, but do they have a place on this site, when nights like Lifeline (which embodies everything this site promotes) are cancelling - just a thought.

Des

[Dekka]

hey up dekka, ive seen ur playlist today that would stand any top nighter, 100 club lifeline etc etc. cheers billy

Thanks for those kind words mate

Always a gentleman, it's a pleasure to know you

[Guest gordon russell]

In response to a post on another thread, I wrote this reply:

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Roger Williams in reply wrote 'Drama Queen'

Now altho we havnt seen each other for some years, I class Roger as a friend. I know Rogers feelings on such things & I respect them, however Roger writes from the perspective of a Modern Soul fan looking in on the NS Scene, my comments were aimed directly at the Northern scene & have very little do with the Modern scene. I stick by my guns & would add that if you pop over to EMS you may think that the same comment 'Drama Queen' could be applied when he who cannot be named (2) along with others in a left field way, make comment on the previous thread on this subject....its obvious that regardless of what is said on SS it hit a nerve, cos said person obviously feels he should comment, albeit in a round about way. Its a pity that the legend couldnt respond in person on SS.

Please feel free to lock this thread now I have replied.

Many thanks

Russ

with you 110%.....l see some right dodgy goings on but i,m just to scared to say anything atb tezza

[Steve G]

the rest is just stamp collecting .

I've never managed to get any sound out of a stamp

Almost two seperate scenes now :

Oldies ; majority supported and hugely popular ; large venues and crowds ; some OVO, some don't be too fussy

Rare ; minority supported/ lower numbers ; small venues and most know each other ; OVO only

Not many events can successfully cater for the two in one room - maybe thats a thing of the past..........

We all like different elements and take our choices...............

Almost? Entirely I'd say. The exception is the remoter outposts of the UK where everyone gets together once a quarter at the only event in the area and you'll hear everything 60s wise from the Impressions to the Celebrities (on OV)...That's a neccesary part of the equation too.

Of course Russ's views are what the minority aspire to, just think the NS oldies train has long since left the station as far as those principles are concerned. So why bother fighting it? Accept it, move on with the rare soul banner, the rest of us who collect, appreciate new and varied sounds, range of styles and tempos, do our own thing, rather than trying to stay wedded to something which has gone overground and become a parody of it's orginal ethos.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Steve G

[Pete S]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

TOO MANY DJ'S

Once upon a time there were a handful of DJ's with their fingers on the pulse, you would travel just to hear an exclusive record from one of these dj's.

Nowadays, everyone is a dj, if they haven't got that rare original 45 they can play it from a different format.

Sounds aren't difficult to hear now - you don't have to travel to hear them - which is why there are so many local nights, and so many venues playing exactly the same records.

The scene has to split now. DJ's playing new discoveries and rarities from original vinyl, and the rest, which include club nights, motown do's, nostalgia events, oldies nights. There's nothing wrong with the latter, but it's not what Northern Soul used to be about.

also take into account the age of the average punter, running around the country was great back when we were 18, but now, in our 50's, it's way easier to go 5 miles up the road to an oldies night for a beer and a chat than it is to plan your weekend around a saturday night spent 150 miles away from home.

And then there's the "interest" factor, people have much more to do nowadays than base their lives around music.

So there are lots of things to factor in, one things for certain, it's not going to die but it may need a bit of resuscitation from time to time.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Pete S

[viphitman]

What I find interresting is that whether someone has been into soul for 10 or 40 years, the people which do not give a flying monkey about original format being played at nighters are mainly the ones coming back after a long break. (just an observation) The ones that stayed at least prefer or even advocate the orignal values of the scene. What I find great is that in Europe after ovo was seen as disirable but not a must in the early 80's it is now becoming more or less the norm !!! Even in Mexico and other countries at least people desire to play ovo instead of continuously ridicule the ovo policy

Keep on dancing

[Spacehopper]

i understand the original post and have 'liked' a few replies and i didnt wanna mention our club go go children down here in bristol as it seems like a shameless plug!...but i will BECAUSE....there IS some middle ground...we play stuff that is widely unknown and rare djs get interested and come up to the decks to asks 'whos this?' AND we play some classic oldies ...(although not the snake or those massively overplayed and overpriced)...and its OVO...for those in the crowd who love kings hall etc but are not sure they would like a rare soul nite....no one will like every tune or genre...but very few have come and not had a good time.....in the past the problem has been no room to dance ,hopefully our new venue will work and this wont be a prob....

ofcourse there are too many nites full stop...and sadly some good events will suffer but not only those that play rare...but i think that soul music will always be played and hope in the future those that play GOOD QUALITY TUNES THAT MAKE YOU WANNA DANCE WHETHER YOU KNOW THE TUNE OR NOT WILL SURVIVE!

dean

[sir cumference]

Ive heard some of the best music ever in the Windsor suite and thats normally packed as well

Wasn`t talking about the "Windsor Suite"-it was the main room "Kings Hall" that is done to death,with the obvious tunes.

Do you think that if the jocks swapped rooms the big room would still be packed?

Nothing wrong with the music in the small room,but it`s packed because it`s small.

[Wiggyflat]

I think there is too much diversity modern soul r n b Latin funky and rare soul....which is a beast that I just do not understand! I've listened to a lot of it and I find that its too mid tempo and suffer from bad productions yet The Tomangoes is rare soul and northern soul and right up my street...when the two meet its great ...when they don't oh dear..