Artists We Know Nothing About

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

If were in the Quinvy/South Camp vain June Edwards is another one

June Edwards' real name appears to have been June Eastland.

So at least that's one thing to add to the non-existent info file on her...

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I had always assumed, stupidly now I think it, he was the Unifics/Back For More Guy?

Who was the Carnival Time AJ then Tony, same as either or neither?

I love stuff like this, keep it coming guys.

The 'Carnival Time' man is a different Al Johnson from both the South Camp and/or Unifics-BFM guys.....

I've met two of the three - both are very nice fellas, incidentally - but, sadly, not the one I'd really like to meet...

[Roburt]

This post is strreettchhhhiiiinnnngggg the theme of the thread a bit

.... but it does tie in with a lot of my earlier posts on the thread ..

... its Margie Hendrix / Ray Charles related ..... MORE SPECIFICALLY ..

... to do with the 1965 movie Ray Charles made (with the Raelettes)..

At present on UK evilbay, there are a few bits of film memorabilia for sale in the US.

There are numerous Lobby Cards (B&W stills from the film that were displayed in the cinema)

.. PLUS a metal movieblock (that was used to print posters) for the film (3.25" x 2.5")

....... SEE ... it's only $19

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ray-Charles-Mary-Peach-Movieblock-Blues-Lovers-/110716717030#ht_2317wt_766

Postage is probably too much for UK listies but should be OK for our US based members.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Roburt

[Sebastian]

The 'Carnival Time' man is a different Al Johnson from both the South Camp and/or Unifics-BFM guys.....

I've met two of the three - both are very nice fellas, incidentally - but, sadly, not the one I'd really like to meet...

Does anyone know which one of the "Al Johnsons" this is (Alfred Johnson)?

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Does anyone know which one of the "Al Johnsons" this is (Alfred Johnson)?

The Unifics/'Back For More' Al Johnson is an Alfred. It's been a long time since I heard your 45, Sebastian, but I seem to recall that it doesn't sound like any of the other Al Johnson's already discussed.

[Chalky]

Buddy Smith is on Facebook, add him as a friend and ask him all you want?

https://www.facebook.com/Buddy.Smith.Music

[Chalky]

She was a member of the Cookies then the Raelettes. She became Ray Charles lover and they had a son together.

Margie on the right.

Loads of photos here....

https://raycharlesvideomuseum.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/ray-charles-is-in-town-chronology-1961.html

[Rob Wigley]

Try Moses Smith and Dena Barnes who appear to be quite untraceable despite plenty of recordings ?

[Guest sharmo 1]

Try Moses Smith and Dena Barnes who appear to be quite untraceable despite plenty of recordings ?

Hi Rob hope your o.k looking foreward to a chat next week I'm sure Tim Ashebende tracked Dena Barnes down she's called Gardenia Barnes and I'm sure she was only about 15 when she recorded "if you ever ...."it was also said that Mike Terry had"an intrest" in her and had broken it off just before recording she is said to be crying during parts of the recording session as Mike was playing in the session.Regards Simon.

[Chalky]

There is a topic about Dena Barnes on here. Tim did track her down and pete Smith had some sort of contact too I think.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Jimmy Holiday & Margie Hendix fit in well on this thread as they both worked (at times) with / for Ray Charles.

There was a team of industry veterans that worked in conjunction with Ray in LA. These included Jimmy Holiday, Wally Roker, (Big) Dee Erwin, Swamp Dogg (Jerry Williams) and the like.

Members of this team produced tracks that were released on TRC and then went on to set up Canyon Records (& when that went bust, Roker, RRG & Earthquake). The team knew the legal side of the biz inside out & young rare songwriters & singers got ripped off on a regular basis. Jimmy Holiday would take part writers credit on a song or producers credits on a track for setting up a release deal on a song / track.

One writer / singer who was ripped off by members of the team was Rudy Love (& Company Soul). He had "Sufferin Wrath" out on Canyon but other of his cuts went unreleased whilst the songs were cut & released on the likes of the Whispers (Soul Clock).

Gene Dozier had cut a track (released under the title of "Hunk of Funk") that he & his musician friends had developed in club shows whilst they were all members of Ike Turner's band. Ike didn't want to loose the band members & so wouldn't help Gene get it released. Jimmy Holiday came along at that time & he was the main LA based A & R man for Minit Records. The song was fully developed & the track was cut but Jimmy H insisted that if Gene D wanted it releasing on Minit, Jimmy H had to be credited as the producer. The deal was done but Jimmy took the advance from Minit & kept it for himself plus the producers fees ... needless to say there were no more Gene Dozier releases on Minit as he wouldn't deal with Jimmy H again. So that's why a US Top 50 hit didn't ever have a follow up 45. James Gadson (drummer) was also on that recording, so he also steered clear of Jimmy H after that.

No doubt, Jimmy Holiday had been ripped off in similar fashion when he had been young & raw to the music biz and he was just 'returning the compliment' but the yong guys he ripped off didn't see it that way.

The majority of what you're saying here contradicts everything that everyone I've ever met who knew Jimmy Holiday says about him, John. Among others, Jackie DeShannon - who wrote 'Put A Little Love In Your Heart' with her brother and Jimmy - said that he was the sweetest guy and one of the most talented men she's ever worked with. The late Buddy Killen also thought he was supremely talented, too. They both told me he was a quiet and shy type of person and that he would back down from an argument rather than fall out over anything. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would be brazen enough to rip off a fellow artist to me...

Incidentally, he was never the head of A&R for Minit - he didn't even produce all of his own records for the label.

I don't know James Gadson but I know a man who does and I'm going to e-mail him later on to see if he'll ask James what he thought of Jimmy. If I get anything back that's printable I'll report it on here.

[Chalky]

I asked Lorraine if she knew James Lately on a her thread and she hadn't heard of him so i'll suggest him as a start although someone probably knows otherwise.

Complex I know...

I'm sure Gilly told me some years ago, we were travelling somewhere, and sure he said he'd been round to James Lately's house/mothers with either Popcorn or Dave Hamilton but he couldn't get past James' mother.

[Lfcjunkie]

Buddy Smith, isn't he Charles "Buddy" Smith? Sure I've either read somethng about him or seen him in a video that is to do with Joey Kingfish.

sure he had a cd reviewd in 'in the basement' mag this last year not a great review either someone must know something try dave cole maybe

dave L

[Chalky]

sure he had a cd reviewd in 'in the basement' mag this last year not a great review either someone must know something try dave cole maybe

dave L

it is on cdbaby or another site like that.....

[Chalky]

Gilly just telling a story about james Lately on Dean's show. James apparently went to school with Berry Gordy. Gordy was a tough little cookie, boxer an all that but James gave him a good hiding

[Russoul1]

have wondered who al alcorn is/was? - travelin home on vibra records

russ

[Roburt]

RE: what you're saying here contradicts everything that everyone I've ever met who knew Jimmy Holiday says about him

Tony, I'm only passing along what Gene Dozier told me.

Fact is Jimmy's name is on the 45 as producer, along with Herb Santifer (who Gene had shared a house with & who had financed the session that "To Prove My Love / Swoop Down On You" by Lorenzo Manley was cut at) plus Ed Wright. After Gene joined his cousin (Al McKay) in Ike Turner's band, he & sax player Clifford Soloman using jazz & blues inspirations developed some riffs into a song. The tune came together so well that Gene gave it the working title of "Nasty". Over the passage of time 2 other original tunes were developed, and Gene decided to take the band into a studio and cut the tracks. Herbert Santifer again financed the session & when everything was laid down & completed Gene shopped the tracks. Gene knew Renee Roker from his Philly days & had looked him up at Minit (where Renee was then employed) after he had arrived in LA (from Detroit). So Gene went down to Minit's offices even though Rene had now moved on. Here he met with Ed Wright (who was now in charge there) & Jimmy Holiday who was handling A & R. They liked the track but Jimmy H insisted he had to be credited as producer for the track (now titled "Hunk of Funk") by the band Brotherhood (the name Gene had selected as the group's name). Gene wasn't happy with the situation but was told he could keep the writers credit & his name would go ahead of Brotherhood on the label but that Jimmy H & Ed W's names had to go down as the producers.

So the 45 label credits the producers as Herb Sanifer (who had paid for the session), Ed Wright (who ran Minit) & Jimmy Holiday (A&R) ... even though none of those three guys had even entered the studio while the tracks were being cut or mixed.

..... I'm only passing along what I was told.

BTW, neither James Gadson or any of the other guys in Ike's band wanted to leave that 'job' at that time (James Gadson did however head off to work with Bill Withers soon afterwards), so they weren't involved with the negotiations with Minit and Gene had to find other guys to actually gig as the Brotherhood.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Roburt

[Steve Edgar]

Jimmy Holiday & Margie Hendix fit in well on this thread as they both worked (at times) with / for Ray Charles.

There was a team of industry veterans that worked in conjunction with Ray in LA. These included Jimmy Holiday, Wally Roker, (Big) Dee Erwin, Swamp Dogg (Jerry Williams) and the like.

Members of this team produced tracks that were released on TRC and then went on to set up Canyon Records (& when that went bust, Roker, RRG & Earthquake). The team knew the legal side of the biz inside out & young rare songwriters & singers got ripped off on a regular basis. Jimmy Holiday would take part writers credit on a song or producers credits on a track for setting up a release deal on a song / track.

One writer / singer who was ripped off by members of the team was Rudy Love (& Company Soul). He had "Sufferin Wrath" out on Canyon but other of his cuts went unreleased whilst the songs were cut & released on the likes of the Whispers (Soul Clock).

Gene Dozier had cut a track (released under the title of "Hunk of Funk") that he & his musician friends had developed in club shows whilst they were all members of Ike Turner's band. Ike didn't want to loose the band members & so wouldn't help Gene get it released. Jimmy Holiday came along at that time & he was the main LA based A & R man for Minit Records. The song was fully developed & the track was cut but Jimmy H insisted that if Gene D wanted it releasing on Minit, Jimmy H had to be credited as the producer. The deal was done but Jimmy took the advance from Minit & kept it for himself plus the producers fees ... needless to say there were no more Gene Dozier releases on Minit as he wouldn't deal with Jimmy H again. So that's why a US Top 50 hit didn't ever have a follow up 45. James Gadson (drummer) was also on that recording, so he also steered clear of Jimmy H after that.

No doubt, Jimmy Holiday had been ripped off in similar fashion when he had been young & raw to the music biz and he was just 'returning the compliment' but the yong guys he ripped off didn't see it that way.

Roburt, there was records released by Gene Dozier after this? "Mustang Sally" / " I Wanna Testify" for one, and didn't he have an LP on Minit?

steve

[SHEFFSOUL]

anyone interested in mickie champion?

[Steve G]

Yes that's right Gene Dozier had two further releases on Minit

Edited June 14, 2012 by Steve G

[boba]

Yes that's right Gene Dozier had two further releases on Minit

also wrote a lot of songs as ugene dozier

[Steve Edgar]

also wrote a lot of songs as ugene dozier

and Billy Jackson

steve

[Steve Edgar]

A group I would love some info on is The Ultimations... one incredible double sider on Mar-V-Lus... apart from that I don't know anything else by 'em, (i always thought they must have recorded stuff under another name, coz to me they were too good to have had only one release!)

steve

[Gilly]

Gilly just telling a story about james Lately on Dean's show. James apparently went to school with Berry Gordy. Gordy was a tough little cookie, boxer an all that but James gave him a good hiding

Thats true Chalky but as hard as he was he was killed i think in the 70ts said hello to his sisters one time as they came past D Hamiltons house on roller skates

[Sebastian]

The Unifics/'Back For More' Al Johnson is an Alfred. It's been a long time since I heard your 45, Sebastian, but I seem to recall that it doesn't sound like any of the other Al Johnson's already discussed.

It's featured as the second track in this mix of mine if you'd like to hear it again:

https://www.mixcloud.com/shingaling/sebastians-function-mix-2010-07-15/

Sounds like a woman singing to me, so must be Angela Coulter handling the vocals. The organ sound is very prominent in the mix so perhaps the Al Johnson on this 45 was the organ player? Pure speculation on my part, but thought I'd throw it out there.

[boba]

A group I would love some info on is The Ultimations... one incredible double sider on Mar-V-Lus... apart from that I don't know anything else by 'em, (i always thought they must have recorded stuff under another name, coz to me they were too good to have had only one release!)

steve

I have never met any of them but the ultimations are definitely from Chicago. One of the Tra-mor label owners told me that he got into music via one of them. he didn't have any current contacts. I'm sure you're right and if they didn't record again at least one member must have been in another group.

[Steve Edgar]

I have never met any of them but the ultimations are definitely from Chicago. One of the Tra-mor label owners told me that he got into music via one of them. he didn't have any current contacts. I'm sure you're right and if they didn't record again at least one member must have been in another group.

cheers Bob, not sure if I've asked this before, but do you have any info on the writer of both sides of Ultimations 45 "Po-Jo" I've seen "Po-Mo" as writing credits on something Chicago, but can't remember what?

steve

[Guest Dave Turner]

Does anyone know anything about or of him?

Buddy Smith in his living room. His e-mail address is in the write up if you view it on the Tube

[media=]

Edited June 14, 2012 by Dave Turner

[Guest Dave Turner]

anyone interested in mickie champion?

Elvis, a lot more available on Mickie Champion under the different spelling of Mickey

https://www.bluesbar....eychampion.html

The Ace CD with some write up ...

https://www.acerecord...59&release=7810

She has a website as well but it comes up with a "this site can harm your computer" warning so haven't been into it.

A good write up here though ..

https://www.bluesbar....egendUnsung.pdf

[media=]

Edited June 14, 2012 by Dave Turner

[Roburt]

RE MY POSTS ABOVE on Gene Dozier; Minit; Jimmy Holiday; ETC.

OK so above I didn't choose my words too well & left bits out in my explanation.

The 1st 45 came out AFTER the deal was signed with Minit (obviously) ...

... the deal had allowed for extra tracks to be cut to form an album (these 2 x 3hr sessions went ahead straight after signing & tunes were covers as they were all ones the band members already had to know from playing their versions in Ike Turner's band) ...

.. the 1st Minit 45 was credited to Jimmy H & Ed Wright as producers EVEN though they had no input on those tracks at all (A side credited as written by Gene; B side credited as written by Cliford Soloman -- the real guys involved).

ALL OTHER Minit tracks (though I haven't seen the LP cover to confirm this) credited as produced by Gene (coz he went ape-sh*t about the producer badging on the 1st 45).

No more recordings by Gene for Minit after those 2 initial sessions (for the label) that resulted in the LP tracks being cut and no support for / promotion of by Gene of the Minit releases except the initial 45.

As the guys in Ike's band wanted the steady work they got with Ike, they didn't want to play live as the Brotherhood. So Gene put together a 'new' band & they secured a residency at an LA club. Group played solid at the club for ages and backed up the likes of Etta James & Jimmy McCrackin. Jimmy McC liked Gene & the group so much, he wanted Gene to produce his next Minit session, but Jmmy Holiday was Jimmy McC's usual producer. Gene did get to produce a coupe of tracks on Jimmy McC but wasn't given the opportunity to do a whole album on him.

Gene did have a good relationship with Ed Wright (so he obviously didn't blame Ed for what had gone on with regards the 1st Minit 45). UA took over Minit & Ed W floated the idea that he should therefore be based in New York. This proposal was approved & Ed W suggested Gene relocate to DC and cut tracks there for Ed W / UA to license for distribution.

So Gene headed off to DC, leaving Jimmy Holiday & the bad feelings behind.

In DC Gene started D.C. Sound Records and put out a 45 by LA based Frankie Karl ("Don't Be Afraid" -- cut by Gene back in LA) in late summer 68. Ed Wright didn't like it & refused to release it on Minit so Gene did a deal with Amy/Mala/Bell. The 45 was a big national hit but Gene hadn't signed Frankie Karl up to a contract (the LA recording session just being a spec affair), so Frankie signed elswhere (with Liberace using Larry Williams;/Johnny Watson as producers) for a decent advance & Gene was stumped. To get something out of the affair, he retained the group name the Dreams and cut "Do What You Wanna" but it wasn't a hit. After that he teamed up in DC with Keni Lewis and Keni became the Dreams new front man. They cut a new track "(They Call Me) Jessie James" and coupled this with a Brotherhood track he hadn't let Minit have ("Charge") and put this out to some local success.

Eventually Gene went on to sign a new record deal for himself with Mercury.

.... I interviewed Gene about 15 years ago (in Vegas) and so not every aspect of his story had remained fresh in my mind.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

BTW, Gene Dozier got sacked from his 'jobs' in Detroit (with Golden World / Solid Hit producing as 'Billy the Kid') for using the name Billy Jackson whilst in Detroit. He had initially gone to Detroit at the request of Mickey Stevenson but couldn't establish himself within Motown.

He told me he used the name of an established Philly guy at Golden World to get around any trouble that could be caused by him working at Golden World whilst officially still being tied to Motown (much like the Funk Bros situation when working at Golden World) but it could well be that he used the name Billy Jackson (who had a proven track record) to get his foot in the door at Golden World.

Jimmy Bishop & Leon Huff came to Detroit, saw Gene working there and blew the whistle on him.

Before he had gone to Detroit (back in Philly) Gene had worked on tracks such as Harriet Lavern & The Lovenotes "On Fire"& "My Boy" and with the likes of the Three Degrees, Norman Johnson & The Showmen, Sheila Ferguson & the Orlons ("Envy").

Edited June 15, 2012 by Roburt

[Robbk]

The majority of what you're saying here contradicts everything that everyone I've ever met who knew Jimmy Holiday says about him, John. Among others, Jackie DeShannon - who wrote 'Put A Little Love In Your Heart' with her brother and Jimmy - said that he was the sweetest guy and one of the most talented men she's ever worked with. The late Buddy Killen also thought he was supremely talented, too. They both told me he was a quiet and shy type of person and that he would back down from an argument rather than fall out over anything. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would be brazen enough to rip off a fellow artist to me...

Incidentally, he was never the head of A&R for Minit - he didn't even produce all of his own records for the label.

I don't know James Gadson but I know a man who does and I'm going to e-mail him later on to see if he'll ask James what he thought of Jimmy. If I get anything back that's printable I'll report it on here.

This is what I've always heard about him. I would have been shocked to hear that he cheated anyone in The Business, in his dealings.

[Sunnysoul]

_{WHO WAS JERRY COOK "I HURT ON THE OTHER SIDE " ???}

[Sunnysoul]

_{WHO WAS JERRY COOK "I HURT ON THE OTHER SIDE " ???}

[Roburt]

Loads of 60's Miami based groups that we seem to know little or nothing about (people even doubting that outfits such as the Twans actually existed).

[boba]

Loads of 60's Miami based groups that we seem to know little or nothing about (people even doubting that outfits such as the Twans actually existed).

Isn't there even a picture of the Twans? What groups are you talking about? Also, Jeff Leimlich is the most knowledgeable person about that area

[Chalky]

Isn't there even a picture of the Twans? What groups are you talking about? Also, Jeff Leimlich is the most knowledgeable person about that area

Sure there has been a picture and some info about them, could have been from Jeff. Just found this quote by him about them...

The Twans were one of the many Miami girl groups of the 60s. One of the members later replaced Annette Snell in the Fabulettes.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

RE MY POSTS ABOVE on Gene Dozier; Minit; Jimmy Holiday; ETC.

OK so above I didn't choose my words too well & left bits out in my explanation.

The 1st 45 came out AFTER the deal was signed with Minit (obviously) ...

... the deal had allowed for extra tracks to be cut to form an album (these 2 x 3hr sessions went ahead straight after signing & tunes were covers as they were all ones the band members already had to know from playing their versions in Ike Turner's band) ...

.. the 1st Minit 45 was credited to Jimmy H & Ed Wright as producers EVEN though they had no input on those tracks at all (A side credited as written by Gene; B side credited as written by Cliford Soloman -- the real guys involved).

ALL OTHER Minit tracks (though I haven't seen the LP cover to confirm this) credited as produced by Gene (coz he went ape-sh*t about the producer badging on the 1st 45).

No more recordings by Gene for Minit after those 2 initial sessions (for the label) that resulted in the LP tracks being cut and no support for / promotion of by Gene of the Minit releases except the initial 45.

As the guys in Ike's band wanted the steady work they got with Ike, they didn't want to play live as the Brotherhood. So Gene put together a 'new' band & they secured a residency at an LA club. Group played solid at the club for ages and backed up the likes of Etta James & Jimmy McCrackin. Jimmy McC liked Gene & the group so much, he wanted Gene to produce his next Minit session, but Jmmy Holiday was Jimmy McC's usual producer. Gene did get to produce a coupe of tracks on Jimmy McC but wasn't given the opportunity to do a whole album on him.

Gene did have a good relationship with Ed Wright (so he obviously didn't blame Ed for what had gone on with regards the 1st Minit 45). UA took over Minit & Ed W floated the idea that he should therefore be based in New York. This proposal was approved & Ed W suggested Gene relocate to DC and cut tracks there for Ed W / UA to license for distribution.

So Gene headed off to DC, leaving Jimmy Holiday & the bad feelings behind.

In DC Gene started D.C. Sound Records and put out a 45 by LA based Frankie Karl ("Don't Be Afraid" -- cut by Gene back in LA) in late summer 68. Ed Wright didn't like it & refused to release it on Minit so Gene did a deal with Amy/Mala/Bell. The 45 was a big national hit but Gene hadn't signed Frankie Karl up to a contract (the LA recording session just being a spec affair), so Frankie signed elswhere (with Liberace using Larry Williams;/Johnny Watson as producers) for a decent advance & Gene was stumped. To get something out of the affair, he retained the group name the Dreams and cut "Do What You Wanna" but it wasn't a hit. After that he teamed up in DC with Keni Lewis and Keni became the Dreams new front man. They cut a new track "(They Call Me) Jessie James" and coupled this with a Brotherhood track he hadn't let Minit have ("Charge") and put this out to some local success.

Eventually Gene went on to sign a new record deal for himself with Mercury.

.... I interviewed Gene about 15 years ago (in Vegas) and so not every aspect of his story had remained fresh in my mind.

Sorry, John, but this just reads to me like the sound of one musician with a personal axe to grind against another, and not necessarily a case on which to build a wholesale character assassination of a generaly admired and respected singer-songwriter on.

I don't think one man's word against another really cuts it, particularly when one of the men was never interviewed about his side of such a story (and I still believe that's all it is - a story).

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

It's featured as the second track in this mix of mine if you'd like to hear it again:

https://www.mixcloud....mix-2010-07-15/

Sounds like a woman singing to me, so must be Angela Coulter handling the vocals.

...that would probably explain why I didn't remember it sounding much like any of the other Al Johnson's, then!

[Kris Holmes]

fwiw, no mention of Jimmy Holiday on the Gene Dozier LP or Funky Broadway 45.

[Chris L]

_{WHO WAS JERRY COOK "I HURT ON THE OTHER SIDE " ???}

Jerry Cook was a LA based singer who worked with the legendary arranger Arthur Wright. Jerry moved out of the singing business and now lives in Arkansas and up until 5 years ago was running a dog handling company (for security firms) I did speak with his then girlfriend but couldn't Jerry to talk on the 'phone. Didn't go and see him just in case he set the dogs on me..........LOL............. BTW there's a whole album full of his recordings at Capitol records. He had about 4 releases, the last one about 1971.

I got to talk to someone there who did re-releases of old material but he wasn't interested

[Pete S]

Try Moses Smith and Dena Barnes who appear to be quite untraceable despite plenty of recordings ?

Her daughter told me she passed away a few years back.

And she'd never received a penny in royalties from any company reissuing the record on cd.

But she didn't appear to know or want to know about how to try and claim royalties anyway.

[Pete S]

Loads of 60's Miami based groups that we seem to know little or nothing about (people even doubting that outfits such as the Twans actually existed).

In Noddy Holder's biography he explains about how they (The In Betweens) got a booking for a season in the Bahamas, supporting a girl group from Florida called The Twans.

I recently watched his "This is your life" from the mid 90's and he repeats the story (but doesn't name the group) just that they were pleasantly surprised when they got there.

[Mike]

In Noddy Holder's biography he explains about how they (The In Betweens) got a booking for a season in the Bahamas, supporting a girl group from Florida called The Twans.

I recently watched his "This is your life" from the mid 90's and he repeats the story (but doesn't name the group) just that they were pleasantly surprised when they got there.

here are Pete

just stumbled on a page that has a bit more on what you say inc motown, william bell etc

started a new thread so not to take this one down another road

[boba]

Her daughter told me she passed away a few years back.

And she'd never received a penny in royalties from any company reissuing the record on cd.

But she didn't appear to know or want to know about how to try and claim royalties anyway.

In general the company reissuing the record has to pay the owner of the publishing and the owner of the master, and it's those people's jobs to pay the songwriters and performers. For tiny artists / labels, the publisher and master owner are frequently out of contact with the people they are supposed to pay and they pocket the money. So it's possible that reissue company does what it's supposed to do but the people they pay don't pay the artists. For master payments, the producer will often say that they never recouped their advance so they won't pay the artist even if they are in contact. It's also possible that the reissue company just bootlegged it, I don't know the CD.

[SHEFFSOUL]

Elvis, a lot more available on Mickie Champion under the different spelling of Mickey

https://www.bluesbar....eychampion.html

The Ace CD with some write up ...

https://www.acerecord...59&release=7810

She has a website as well but it comes up with a "this site can harm your computer" warning so haven't been into it.

A good write up here though ..

https://www.bluesbar....egendUnsung.pdf

[media=]

many thanks..i met her in a similar bar..in East LA about 15 years ago..we chatted about 'what good am i ' etc..heres the weird thing..she said she only did two recording sessions.. one for Modern & the other ?? both in the late 50's..she insisted never in the 60's..!! I always thought that 'What good' had an earlier R&B sound to it..she would'nt let me take a photo even when her manager asked her..but asked if i could get a hold of the musette 45 'to put on the juke box..'..

[Chris L]

Bobby Reed is someone I'd like to find. By all accounts he recorded for a few labels and worked with icon van McCoy. In spite of strenious efforts no joy in finding him. Just love "I'll find a way"

[Guest Dave Turner]

many thanks..i met her in a similar bar..in East LA about 15 years ago..we chatted about 'what good am i ' etc..heres the weird thing..she said she only did two recording sessions.. one for Modern & the other ?? both in the late 50's..she insisted never in the 60's..!! I always thought that 'What good' had an earlier R&B sound to it..she would'nt let me take a photo even when her manager asked her..but asked if i could get a hold of the musette 45 'to put on the juke box..'..

100% her though isn't it. The name, location and definitely the voice. Maybe cut it as a demo or whatever and never knew it got released, often happened and may even explain the slight difference in name.

[boba]

Bobby Reed is someone I'd like to find. By all accounts he recorded for a few labels and worked with icon van McCoy. In spite of strenious efforts no joy in finding him. Just love "I'll find a way"

What were your strenuous efforts that you did to find him?

Either way it would be very difficult because it is a very generic name with 100s of listings in Washington DC (assuming he didn't move). Are there any songs that he is credited as writer on or are they all written by Van McCoy?

[SHEFFSOUL]

100% her though isn't it. The name, location and definitely the voice. Maybe cut it as a demo or whatever and never knew it got released, often happened and may even explain the slight difference in name.

yes its her..and similar story i think to Tobi Lark/legend..she knew the song..and think she knew it had been released..('66?)..but had prob been recorded earlier and sat on the shelf..