Record Price Mentality

[Guest jb000]

I can't see the Northern Soul scene living on for long (I mean after our generation) with records so highly priced. What young person would want to start collecting original vinyl, with anything decent / popular going for hundreds of pounds.

1 .1000's of 'decent' records for £50 and under

2 .Don't buy 'popular' records, buy good records and make them 'popular'!

[Chalky]

1 .1000's of 'decent' records for £50 and under

2 .Don't buy 'popular' records, buy good records and make them 'popular'!

Wise words John

Far too many nowadays who have to follow the flock rather than do their own thing and too much quality ignored because it is cheap and expensive crap is put up with simply because a DJ can say "look what I've got".

[Kev Cane]

Always the same ! Years back I used to play Johnny Howard The chase is on & nobody was really interested. Butch started playing it, price shot up & of course if i played it everyone wanted to dance to it. Do "DJs" announce Butch likes/plays this to get people up & dancing ?

Don,t go to many do,s now for this reason, not many people have their own minds when it comes to records, too much liking a record through association instead of hearing something that no one in particular plays and nailing your colours to it and saying "what the f---k is this, its brilliant"

Kev

[Guest jb000]

Wise words John

Far too many nowadays who have to follow the flock rather than do their own thing and too much quality ignored because it is cheap and expensive crap is put up with simply because a DJ can say "look what I've got".

Too true Chalky , Im impressed when I peer over the decks to check out a record thats new to me and the DJ says, "Easy one to pick up, £20 or so", result

[Chalky]

Too true Chalky , Im impressed when I peer over the decks to check out a record thats new to me and the DJ says, "Easy one to pick up, £20 or so", result

I've always championed/played cheap records in my sets, possibly has something to do with me being a Yorkshire man I've had some come up to the decks ask what a record is then the price and when told 20 or 30 quid have returned ten minutes later with a big smile on their face and the record in their hand having been in the record bar and bought one, makes it all worthwhile.

[Guest jb000]

Great feeling when that happens Chalky......from both sides of the deck

[Guest Bearsy]

What about dealers that buy tunes from eBay for say £30 then sell them on for say £50. Are they not inflating the prices of a £30 tune cos that's what they are worth cos that's what the auction price finished at so if people are lazy cos they didn't see it at £30 but a dealer lists it at £50 are all the people that buy from dealers idiots like those that are labelled that for buying from JM ??

[Micksmix]

Sherrell brothers springs to mind Kev ...I remember Shep selling up and it was on his sales list for £20 on here ,only about 3yr since.

,he couldn't sell it so reduced it to a tenner .

A yr later Butch put it in his set and whoosh ..£300 a go and on a lot of wants lists !

Even now it's still highly sought after ?

This however is going off on a tangent from my original post

[/quoteBought lee fields off john powney for £12,the sherrell Brothers was a £10-£15 record that used to be in the racks in tim brown's shop(they all seemed to be double printed labels)thought we were doing well selling them on for £30 DOH!!!

Edited June 10, 2012 by micksmix

[Markw]

1 .1000's of 'decent' records for £50 and under

2 .Don't buy 'popular' records, buy good records and make them 'popular'!

Spot on.

I'm really confused about exactly what people are complaining about here? :g:I can understand why Pete Smith gets frustrated that he lists 45s at prices lower than the same 45s go for on JM's auctions - that does seem somewhat perverse and cause to complain. But what is everyone else moaning for? "How dare Butch/Dyson (insert DJ name) go and make the records that I own far more valuable!"? If the complaint is that you can't buy it now because it's gone up, well, tough....isn't that the nature of the game? Should've gone to Specsavers and bought it when it was 'cheap'!

[Guest jb000]

What about dealers that buy tunes from eBay for say £30 then sell them on for say £50. Are they not inflating the prices of a £30 tune cos that's what they are worth cos that's what the auction price finished at so if people are lazy cos they didn't see it at £30 but a dealer lists it at £50 are all the people that buy from dealers idiots like those that are labelled that for buying from JM ??

Good point Paul , just been looking at JM's auction of Frank Howard-Judy(Excello), £212.00 so far! , I paid £15 years ago, its a very good record and as far as Im aware its not a current indemand record so who is bidding at £212?!!,

[Guest jb000]

Spot on.

I'm really confused about exactly what people are complaining about here? :g:I can understand why Pete Smith gets frustrated that he lists 45s at prices lower than the same 45s go for on JM's auctions - that does seem somewhat perverse and cause to complain. But what is everyone else moaning for? "How dare Butch/Dyson (insert DJ name) go and make the records that I own far more valuable!"? If the complaint is that you can't buy it now because it's gone up, well, tough....isn't that the nature of the game? Should've gone to Specsavers and bought it when it was 'cheap'!

Answer: Yes

[Kev Cane]

Good point Paul , just been looking at JM's auction of Frank Howard-Judy(Excello), £212.00 so far! , I paid £15 years ago, its a very good record and as far as Im aware its not a current indemand record so who is bidding at £212?!!,

Lot of admirers in the NE John

Kev

[Guest Bearsy]

Good point Paul , just been looking at JM's auction of Frank Howard-Judy(Excello), £212.00 so far! , I paid £15 years ago, its a very good record and as far as Im aware its not a current indemand record so who is bidding at £212?!!,

Yep crazy price and defo not a hard tune to find John

[Guest jb000]

Lot of admirers in the NE John

Kev

and one or two darn sarf Kev

[Philt]

I think some of it is just down to laziness; too easy for folk to sit on their a*se online seeing what's 'popular' and chucking a few quid at it. As one or two have already said, there's seems to be something of the dj / ego / trophy culture about much of it. Buy em cos you love em: fiver or 5k shouldn't make the slightest difference as long as you can afford it. If you're lucky enough to play em out once in a while back your taste and leave the sheep to being just that. If it makes em happy and they can afford it then its none of my business really. The likelihood that I'll be chasing the same records is pretty slim in most cases so doesn't cause me to lose much sleep to be honest.

Auctions and t'internet make life easier for everyone in terms of accessibility of course but there's never been any substitute for getting out and about, listening to tapes, cds, podcasts, radio shows or whatever, rooting through boxes and picking the brains of the people who know what's what has there. At the end of the day I think you reap what you sew in terms of effort, commitment, building a knowledge-base and contacts you know are sound. If you want an 'instant' collection these days then you're gonna pay through the nose for it (and there's a bit of me that thinks so you should if I'm absolutely honest)

Personally, once it's 'gone' in terms of every beggar wanting something it kinda loses its appeal for me. I have no qualms about buying stuff to sell on or letting things go in order to fund new 45s; I try to be realistic and fair price-wise when I do sell things on but if I can make a couple of quid that just gets plowed back into vinyl further along the line anyway. Swings n roundabouts.

[Grayman45]

Too true Chalky , Im impressed when I peer over the decks to check out a record thats new to me and the DJ says, "Easy one to pick up, £20 or so", result

It's a fair point. Perhaps I'm just not going to the right places.

[Quinvy]

What about dealers that buy tunes from eBay for say £30 then sell them on for say £50. Are they not inflating the prices of a £30 tune cos that's what they are worth cos that's what the auction price finished at so if people are lazy cos they didn't see it at £30 but a dealer lists it at £50 are all the people that buy from dealers idiots like those that are labelled that for buying from JM ??

That made me laugh mate. There's no way a record dealer could make a living buying off ebay.

[Guest turntableterra]

The Japanese have been buying rare records for a very long time ..and i would wager the Japanese economy is better than here ,thus making it easier to outbid most Uk /Usa buyers on ebay

a lot of it comes to the land of milk and honey..............................australia.and we know our stuff too! without a doubt. been ducked a time or two though

[Guest turntableterra]

That made me laugh mate. There's no way a record dealer could make a living buying off ebay.

actually they can. johnny redants in oz does this, successfully too

[Quinvy]

That made me laugh mate. There's no way a record dealer could make a living buying off ebay.

actually they can. johnny redants in oz does this, successfully too

On northern?

[Guest giant]

WOW....people are selling "Footsee" for £5. Scandalous!

Steve

:lol:

[Guest giant]

Wise words John

Far too many nowadays who have to follow the flock rather than do their own thing and too much quality ignored because it is cheap and expensive crap is put up with simply because a DJ can say "look what I've got".

well said ' i agree with what say

[boba]

a lot of it comes to the land of milk and honey..............................australia.and we know our stuff too! without a doubt. been ducked a time or two though

represent

[Guest Bearsy]

That made me laugh mate. There's no way a record dealer could make a living buying off ebay.

There are plenty that buy a lot from eBay and sell on here and on fb and yes Northern/rare soul, I know for sure a few that do cos I missed out on tunes on eBay just to see the same bloody record put up for sale on here next week at a very tidy little profit then someone buys it at inflated price cos i wont as i feel i will get another one soon hopefully at its true price to me, now that really pisses me off cos them dealers are inflating the prices of tunes purely for their own personal benefit at the cost of lazy buyers that are willing to pay more than they would if they looked a bit harder, at least JM don't dictate his auction prices he lets the bidders do that. So what's worse idiots buying of dealers when they could of got it a lot cheaper on eBay or idiots that do win on an auction but it just happens to be JM auction.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Bearsy

[Dylan]

_{you can buy of ebay sell on here for a profit and still undercut dealers if you have got the time and effort required to do it.}

[Quinvy]

I find it incredible that anyone could make a living out of buying records on ebay. Everything I bid on goes for proper money, and with the cost of shipping etc. profit margins would be very slim. I would have thought you would need to be buying huge numbers of 45's to get a living wage out of it?

I applaud anyone who can make it work. I find it very difficult to move 25% of what I put up for sale these days.

[Julianb]

Wise words John

Far too many nowadays who have to follow the flock rather than do their own thing and too much quality ignored because it is cheap and expensive crap is put up with simply because a DJ can say "look what I've got".

Hi Chalky,

whilst I agree with you about expensive crap ( I personally ONLY buy what I like), many DJs only get a few spots each year and feel they have to play a 'safe' set in the hope of getting more recognition and spots.

If you are DJing week in and week out, you can play something different or new to the punters as you know it's not going to affect your future bookings!

Cheers

Julian

[Dylan]

I find it incredible that anyone could make a living out of buying records on ebay. Everything I bid on goes for proper money, and with the cost of shipping etc. profit margins would be very slim. I would have thought you would need to be buying huge numbers of 45's to get a living wage out of it?

I applaud anyone who can make it work. I find it very difficult to move 25% of what I put up for sale these days.

doing it full time as your "proper" income would take a hell of a lot of time and effort backed with a huge amount of knowledge but could be possible.

more casually to help support your own record buying should be easier.

[Roger Williams]

At last, someone gets it. That, and that alone, is my personal problem with these auctions, and it's not the auctions themselves, it's the by-product of them - the fact that people who should and do know better inflate the prices based on the auction sale. Now let's have a think, lets say for some reason there's a copy of FOOTSEE up for auction at the moment, now everyone knows that's a £5 record, £6 at the most for an unplayed one, any collector who wants it has already got it - BUT - if it follows the usual auction track and sells for say £125, you can bet your life that someone will put up a copy, within days, for at least £100. But nothing has changed with that record, it hasn't become rare overnight, it's still worth £5. The people who carry on selling it at £5 are the ones with a bit of integrity.

This scenario is why I stopped collecting sevens around 8 years ago. I'd never really been a sevens person up until the mid/late 90s when I hooked up with Flanny and the Orwell boys for the first time, and I was never really one to pay stupid money for sevens, the most I ever forked out was £150 for Archie Bell '1000 Wonders' Spanish picture sleeve issue, but I was happily toddling along forking out £40/£50 for ones I really wanted at that time, such as Innersection, Rhonda Davis, Pretenders, Raj, Walter Jackson, Pure Pleasure etc, all reasonable prices back then, but for the most part I wasn't really arsed about 'big ticket' records, the majority of what I was buying were all cheap in general terms and all just great records, but in 2002 I think it was, one night at Lowton, I was talking to somebody about Betty Swann Kiss My Love Goodbye, which at the time was a £25 record that I'd never picked up so I decided to try and get one, and I was told that now I'd have to fork out £200 for one because that's what somebody had just paid for a copy and that would set the price of it from now on??? WTF!?!?! That was the beginning of the end for me as far as sevens were concerned because I couldn't handle the frustration of having to fork out 10/20 times the actual worth of a record just because one individual with more money than sense decided it was worth that amount to them.

But in response to your last point Pete, it's all good and well in theory talking about 'integrity', but let's face it mate, in reality, there are very very few of us who would sell a record for less than the generally accepted 'going' rate, whether it was actually worth that or not, we all want top whack when we sell. What this does highlight though, is the hypocrisy within the vast majority of us when it comes to buying and selling records - we all moan like stink about prices and how disgraceful it is blah blah, but when it comes to selling, we will all gladly rip people off in trying the get the most we can for any given record under the excuse 'that's what it goes for now'.

It's a funny old game eh?

Roger

[Quinvy]

It's all well and good people moaning about high prices, but if you have paid top dollar for a record you are hardly going to sell it on at a bargain price. Well if you do you are mental.

[Pete S]

This scenario is why I stopped collecting sevens around 8 years ago. I'd never really been a sevens person up until the mid/late 90s when I hooked up with Flanny and the Orwell boys for the first time, and I was never really one to pay stupid money for sevens, the most I ever forked out was £150 for Archie Bell '1000 Wonders' Spanish picture sleeve issue, but I was happily toddling along forking out £40/£50 for ones I really wanted at that time, such as Innersection, Rhonda Davis, Pretenders, Raj, Walter Jackson, Pure Pleasure etc, all reasonable prices back then, but for the most part I wasn't really arsed about 'big ticket' records, the majority of what I was buying were all cheap in general terms and all just great records, but in 2002 I think it was, one night at Lowton, I was talking to somebody about Betty Swann Kiss My Love Goodbye, which at the time was a £25 record that I'd never picked up so I decided to try and get one, and I was told that now I'd have to fork out £200 for one because that's what somebody had just paid for a copy and that would set the price of it from now on??? WTF!?!?! That was the beginning of the end for me as far as sevens were concerned because I couldn't handle the frustration of having to fork out 10/20 times the actual worth of a record just because one individual with more money than sense decided it was worth that amount to them.

But in response to your last point Pete, it's all good and well in theory talking about 'integrity', but let's face it mate, in reality, there are very very few of us who would sell a record for less than the generally accepted 'going' rate, whether it was actually worth that or not, we all want top whack when we sell. What this does highlight though, is the hypocrisy within the vast majority of us when it comes to buying and selling records - we all moan like stink about prices and how disgraceful it is blah blah, but when it comes to selling, we will all gladly rip people off in trying the get the most we can for any given record under the excuse 'that's what it goes for now'.

It's a funny old game eh?

Roger

If you need the money, you sell it for whatever you can get, never mind wanting top whack for it.

I could wait for a year for something to sell at book price, yet reduce it by 25%, instant sale.

Don't sell, don't eat, simple as that.

[NEV]

If you need the money, you sell it for whatever you can get, never mind wanting top whack for it.

I could wait for a year for something to sell at book price, yet reduce it by 25%, instant sale.

Don't sell, don't eat, simple as that.

You could always get a job Pete ;))

[Pete S]

You could always get a job Pete ;))

I know, I keep thinking about it...but after working for myself for so long, I can't imagine being told what to do by someone else..

[Marc Forrest]

I could wait for a year for something to sell at book price, yet reduce it by 25%, instant sale.

Don't sell, don't eat, simple as that.

Think you are right Pete. Book prices ? only for the high end or strongly indemand stuff. And most of the time only if you have a well established web shop/auction and client base. Other than that and you better forget it.

Situation has pretty much become like I predicted it to become almost ten years ago... high end 45s = still occasionally rising, "middle" priced stuff = decreasing and hard to sell, basic record builders and fillers = dead.

Why ? Because the UK scene -especially record buying scene- is almost dead. Most serious UK collectors are in their (late) fifties / early sixties, have most of what they want, dont want to pay rididulous prices for "new" stuff or records that are missing in their collections. Hotboxing DJ`s cant afford/risk to buy heavy high priced 45s as they know they wont be able to sell them again for what they paid for once they decide to move the thing on.

And on the bottom ? Nothing. No new blood. No new collectors. Bad economy also adds its share to it.

European Scene ? Thankfully different. But lets be honest to ourselves here: Despite the Nighters and weekenders attendances being extremely well the European scene still hasnt got enough serious collectors and DJ`s to fill the gap of the UK scene when it comes to create or substitute a demand. Having said that nine and a half new collectors and buyers out of ten are from the continent these days. Which does say it all really..

[Markw]

This scenario is why I stopped collecting sevens around 8 years ago. I'd never really been a sevens person up until the mid/late 90s when I hooked up with Flanny and the Orwell boys for the first time, and I was never really one to pay stupid money for sevens, the most I ever forked out was £150 for Archie Bell '1000 Wonders' Spanish picture sleeve issue, but I was happily toddling along forking out £40/£50 for ones I really wanted at that time, such as Innersection, Rhonda Davis, Pretenders, Raj, Walter Jackson, Pure Pleasure etc, all reasonable prices back then, but for the most part I wasn't really arsed about 'big ticket' records, the majority of what I was buying were all cheap in general terms and all just great records, but in 2002 I think it was, one night at Lowton, I was talking to somebody about Betty Swann Kiss My Love Goodbye, which at the time was a £25 record that I'd never picked up so I decided to try and get one, and I was told that now I'd have to fork out £200 for one because that's what somebody had just paid for a copy and that would set the price of it from now on??? WTF!?!?! That was the beginning of the end for me as far as sevens were concerned because I couldn't handle the frustration of having to fork out 10/20 times the actual worth of a record just because one individual with more money than sense decided it was worth that amount to them.

Should have bought it when it was £25 then if that's all you wanted to pay for it. That's what happens mate............record goes big, price goes up.........always been that way, not difficult to work out.

[Steve G]

Think you are right Pete. Book prices ? only for the high end or strongly indemand stuff. And most of the time only if you have a well established web shop/auction and client base. Other than that and you better forget it.

Situation has pretty much become like I predicted it to become almost ten years ago... high end 45s = still occasionally rising, "middle" priced stuff = decreasing and hard to sell, basic record builders and fillers = dead.

Why ? Because the UK scene -especially record buying scene- is almost dead. Most serious UK collectors are in their (late) fifties / early sixties, have most of what they want, dont want to pay rididulous prices for "new" stuff or records that are missing in their collections. Hotboxing DJ`s cant afford/risk to buy heavy high priced 45s as they know they wont be able to sell them again for what they paid for once they decide to move the thing on.

And on the bottom ? Nothing. No new blood. No new collectors. Bad economy also adds its share to it.

European Scene ? Thankfully different. But lets be honest to ourselves here: Despite the Nighters and weekenders attendances being extremely well the European scene still hasnt got enough serious collectors and DJ`s to fill the gap of the UK scene when it comes to create or substitute a demand. Having said that nine and a half new collectors and buyers out of ten are from the continent these days. Which does say it all really..

Good points Marc.

[Guest jb000]

Hi Chalky,

whilst I agree with you about expensive crap ( I personally ONLY buy what I like), many DJs only get a few spots each year and feel they have to play a 'safe' set in the hope of getting more recognition and spots.

If you are DJing week in and week out, you can play something different or new to the punters as you know it's not going to affect your future bookings!

Cheers

Julian

'Play safe', for who's safety?, recognition for playing safe is 'non recognition' in me book.

[NEV]

I know, I keep thinking about it...but after working for myself for so long, I can't imagine being told what to do by someone else..

Don't blame ya Pete ..we are back in the times of aggressive ,arrogant firms who feel good about talkin down to the work force " if you don't like it ,I can get plenty to take your place "!

Hard times

[Markw]

'Play safe', for who's safety?, recognition for playing safe is 'non recognition' in me book.

[Louise]

I've been reading this thread with great interest and to me the moral of this story is to collect good /great records as they come along and not what's currently in vogue. As in the case of some of Butch's cheaper spins: Flairs, Lee Feilds Sherrell Bros, Johnny Howard, Bobby Guitar Woods, Soft Touch etc

A good record will always have it's day, a old school collector/Dj will have a copy in his racks to pull out and play while a new wave trendy "Hot Boxer" will have to pay through the nose to get a copy usually causing a stampede on E-bay (and most probably lose his ass/money when the record goes off the boil).

Also selling off a good/great record when it's not in vogue is also plain daft, look at Jeese Johnson (Old Town) and Celeste Hardy (Reynolds) both of these have made more comebacks than George Best.

Dave

Edited June 12, 2012 by Louise

[Roger Williams]

Should have bought it when it was £25 then if that's all you wanted to pay for it. That's what happens mate............record goes big, price goes up.........always been that way, not difficult to work out.

It hadn't 'gone big' Mark, it was already well known amongst the 'moddens', but what was happening at that time was a shift of people who were always primarily into northern soul and for the most part disregarded tracks like Betty Swann, started to pay attention to these records and transferred the high price mentality into the buying of what were always were merely just good records and reasonably priced collection-builders and for me that's when the rot set in and it all became too frustrating because I didn't just want 'the possession' at any cost, I actually wanted the record primarily for the music - I enjoyed collecting the sevens as a format but there was no way I was going to start having to pay £200/£300 for ONE tune when that kind of money would have bought me about 50 LPs, it just didn't make any sense to me, hence me eventually cashing in what I had (at the 'going rate' like a massive hypocrite) and spending that money on literally hundreds upon hundred off LPs and CDs.

As I say, it's a funny old game.

Roger

[Julianb]

it just didn't make any sense to me, hence me eventually cashing in what I had (at the 'going rate' like a massive hypocrite) and spending that money on literally hundreds upon hundred off LPs and CDs.

As I say, it's a funny old game.

Roger

Bloody hell Roger,

you own a CD player?

Hope you're well.

Julian

[boba]

It's all well and good people moaning about high prices, but if you have paid top dollar for a record you are hardly going to sell it on at a bargain price. Well if you do you are mental.

I've sold lots of records for less than I paid. I've sold lots of records for more than I paid. If you want records to be liquid you have to go both ways.

[Roger Williams]

Roger

Bloody hell Roger,

you own a CD player?

Hope you're well.

Julian

I'm chipper, Julian, thanks mate, long time no see, hope both your good self and your lovely lady are also keeping fine fettle.

Roger

[Guest Brett F]

Auction buying is a total lottery, depending if you constantly watch items, the price differential can can move like a yo-yo..sometimes within a month !, few examples Eugene Smiley hitting over a thousand dollars in January 2010, then $650 in this year, yet only last month it went as low as $234...Split Decision band went for over $2000 Jan last year, yet as low as £400 this last month, plus plenty of other examples out there, not quite sure where that leaves us when it comes to an exact price....I've paid more for certain things because i know (well i assume ? ) they are hard and may not come along anytime soon, but i've bided my time when i've had a hunch about certain records i believe aren't that rare and have got things at good prices. Swings and roundabouts, but prices are so subjective..All i know is that if i want something i may just push the boat out and capture it, but that comes with my own experience over certain records availability. As a rule i don't really sell records but if somebody does inflate a price on a tune and then gets that price, why is he/her wrong, it's a free market economy..

[Dylan]

I've sold lots of records for less than I paid. I've sold lots of records for more than I paid. If you want records to be liquid you have to go both ways.

this is exactly my view on it as well.

I won't hold onto something just for fear of loosing some $$ if i've made on others it all comes out right in the end.

[KevH]

Swings and roundabouts.You buy something cheap,make a couple of quid on it,buy something slightly over the odds to snag it using "profits" from cheap sale......unless you're in it to make money business wise,isn't this how it works?