Record Price Mentality

[NEV]

Having followed the drama last night regarding the Ty Karim on John Manship auction and many other items that have been bought at surprisingly higher prices than usual ...... it made me wonder this ..??

If these unusual price hikes cause such a stir and we take great pleasure in ridiculing the people who pay them, then why is it the same price sets the standard for the copies that follow ??

Pete Smith highlighted the Solomom Burke demo going for £500 and that it was'nt rare at all ..should be a £20 record ..but then we see it in sales for £350

Just spotted a record in sales today that was on ebay this week for a unusually high price ...now in sales for the same price ( don't wanna upset seller so i wont reveal it)

Ton of Dynamite ..high on manship auction ,big discusion and ridicule on here ..and then loads of copies appear at inflated price ?

Lee Fields was another .... Flares on Rap was another ..

I already know the obvious answers will be" its indemand "and "Butch has just gave it a play" etc ..

but my question is, in simple terms ,if the people who paid the unusual high priced one that is causing the reaction ,are ridiculed as thick ,out of touch ,too much money and so on ..then why do sellers on here think the rest of us are stupid enough to follow suit ?

[Pete S]

At last, someone gets it. That, and that alone, is my personal problem with these auctions, and it's not the auctions themselves, it's the by-product of them - the fact that people who should and do know better inflate the prices based on the auction sale. Now let's have a think, lets say for some reason there's a copy of FOOTSEE up for auction at the moment, now everyone knows that's a £5 record, £6 at the most for an unplayed one, any collector who wants it has already got it - BUT - if it follows the usual auction track and sells for say £125, you can bet your life that someone will put up a copy, within days, for at least £100. But nothing has changed with that record, it hasn't become rare overnight, it's still worth £5. The people who carry on selling it at £5 are the ones with a bit of integrity.

[Jordirip]

Just spotted a record in sales today that was on ebay this week for a unusually high price ...now in sales for the same price ( don't wanna upset seller so i wont reveal it)

Wouldn't be a Curtis Liggins would it.

[Markw]

I think there are actually 2 syndromes at work here and there is a subtle difference between them.

The first, correctly described in Nev's post - common record starts getting plays at general/big venues; gets auctioned and bought for daft money because someone doesn't know better and thinks the record's rare. The record will keep turning up in droves, as it should, and eventually prices fall back to a level closer to where they should have been all along once the novelty has worn off.

The second is, IMHO, different to the first - apparently common record (because it's been a cheapie in sales boxes for years and years - "£5 - nice dancer" - we've all seen them, had them, binned them) but which folk 'in the know' (so to speak) acknowledge is in fact a fine record but it's never gone big in the past, probably for that very fact that it is perceived as a cheap, stocking-filler or 'soul-pack' 45, a 'tape-swappers' record. Said record is actually not that common after all (though not actually terribly rare either). The more discerning/'adventurous' DJ picks it up (because they play quality dancers and because they recognise that it's not actually all that common) and finally gives it its day and the record finally gets recognised for its quality after all. The record maintains a value commensurate with its quality. Nev mentioned the Flairs on Rap and Butch - classic examples in my view. Flairs - is it really that common? Butch - enough said.

Yours, just waiting to get shot down in flames now............

[Guest Ivor Jones]

At last, someone gets it. That, and that alone, is my personal problem with these auctions, and it's not the auctions themselves, it's the by-product of them - the fact that people who should and do know better inflate the prices based on the auction sale. Now let's have a think, lets say for some reason there's a copy of FOOTSEE up for auction at the moment, now everyone knows that's a £5 record, £6 at the most for an unplayed one, any collector who wants it has already got it - BUT - if it follows the usual auction track and sells for say £125, you can bet your life that someone will put up a copy, within days, for at least £100. But nothing has changed with that record, it hasn't become rare overnight, it's still worth £5. The people who carry on selling it at £5 are the ones with a bit of integrity.

Hello Pete......Surely,it must depend on the item thats causing all the fuss ? I mean, all of the examples given[except your

" Footsee"] are actually reasonably tough to find in nice mint condition[surely the overriding factor with the benchmark busting prices]........? I mean they`re not ten a penny are they ?

I see nothing strange in people offering similar items up for sale at an "inflated" price,whatever that is.....i mean most people who do this are merely trying to capitalise on the "buzz" of the moment and whats wrong with that ? If it sells then you have some cash to spend on a nice item you couldnt normally afford. As we all know, record prices are forever fluctuating and who amongst us can truly know what others are prepared to pay for something ?..many collectors would gladly let something go for say £300,knowing full well they`ll pick another up in a years time for ,say,£50. I know i would......and anyway,with these auctions,there must be more than one person bidding the record up...... ? So there has to be some demand surely ?Also, I do wonder if the Solomon Burke demo was actually paid for ? Someone must have been pretty desperate to pay that..but if they did,then good luck to them.....

Best, Ivor

[NEV]

Wouldn't be a Curtis Liggins would it.

Jordi ...i am not at liberty to say my friend ...

[Soulman]

At last, someone gets it. That, and that alone, is my personal problem with these auctions, and it's not the auctions themselves, it's the by-product of them - the fact that people who should and do know better inflate the prices based on the auction sale. Now let's have a think, lets say for some reason there's a copy of FOOTSEE up for auction at the moment, now everyone knows that's a £5 record, £6 at the most for an unplayed one, any collector who wants it has already got it - BUT - if it follows the usual auction track and sells for say £125, you can bet your life that someone will put up a copy, within days, for at least £100. But nothing has changed with that record, it hasn't become rare overnight, it's still worth £5. The people who carry on selling it at £5 are the ones with a bit of integrity.

WOW....people are selling "Footsee" for £5. Scandalous!

Steve

[Ernie Andrews]

Hello Pete......Surely,it must depend on the item thats causing all the fuss ? I mean, all of the examples given[except your

" Footsee"] are actually reasonably tough to find in nice mint condition[surely the overriding factor with the benchmark busting prices]........? I mean they`re not ten a penny are they ?

I see nothing strange in people offering similar items up for sale at an "inflated" price,whatever that is.....i mean most people who do this are merely trying to capitalise on the "buzz" of the moment and whats wrong with that ? If it sells then you have some cash to spend on a nice item you couldnt normally afford. As we all know, record prices are forever fluctuating and who amongst us can truly know what others are prepared to pay for something ?..many collectors would gladly let something go for say £300,knowing full well they`ll pick another up in a years time for ,say,£50. I know i would......and anyway,with these auctions,there must be more than one person bidding the record up...... ? So there has to be some demand surely ?Also, I do wonder if the Solomon Burke demo was actually paid for ? Someone must have been pretty desperate to pay that..but if they did,then good luck to them.....

Best, Ivor

Sorry Ivor I'm with Pete and Nev on this one.

I sold an Ethics (Iwant my baby back) Mint white demo on here for around 25 quid (its true value)- It became popular and some daft sod on ebay or JMs (Cannot remember which) paid over a hundred for it - Hey presto the same guy I sold to was then wanting 100 quid for a white demo- Theres been lots of demos & issues on ebay but because someone bid well over the odds every dog and his bone now thinks thats the standard price when infact its an inflated price and this sort of thing damages the rare collectors scene. Could you imagine the Snake going for 250 quid and then everyone on here says you can have mine for 150- Its about integrity Ivor not so much the auction itself! and thats what I think Pete & nev were getting at or they can shoot me!

[Chalky]

Isn't this the same topic as Steve's" Anarchy" topic? Seems to be two or three topics moan ing about the price of records?

[Pete S]

Isn't this the same topic as Steve's" Anarchy" topic? Seems to be two or three topics moan ing about the price of records?

No it's about auctions.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Sorry Ivor I'm with Pete and Nev on this one.

I sold an Ethics (Iwant my baby back) Mint white demo on here for around 25 quid (its true value)- It became popular and some daft sod on ebay or JMs (Cannot remember which) paid over a hundred for it - Hey presto the same guy I sold to was then wanting 100 quid for a white demo- Theres been lots of demos & issues on ebay but because someone bid well over the odds every dog and his bone now thinks thats the standard price when infact its an inflated price and this sort of thing damages the rare collectors scene. Could you imagine the Snake going for 250 quid and then everyone on here says you can have mine for 150- Its about integrity Ivor not so much the auction itself! and thats what I think Pete & nev were getting at or they can shoot me!

Yes but the Ethics is a perfect example of what i was talking about.....That was a couple[or more] years back now......They were definately selling for around the £100 mark but now its died down price wise..because obviously loads of copies came out the woodwork.The overriding factor is when someone wants to buy the record, they`re not available are they ?[probably sitting around in collections]......why does it damage the scene though ? People can ask what they like for a record, If they dont sell, they either come down in price or go back on the shelf.....

[Chalky]

No it's about auctions.

Steve's starts off with JM's auction, there is another about the criteria regarding records for auction. Ah well.......

[Pete S]

Steve's starts off with JM's auction, there is another about the criteria regarding records for auction. Ah well.......

All slightly different though, Steve's is more scattershot, the one about selection for auctions is definitely different and this one is more about people selling records based on auction prices, I wouldn't merge them personally..

[Kev Cane]

I think there are actually 2 syndromes at work here and there is a subtle difference between them.

The first, correctly described in Nev's post - common record starts getting plays at general/big venues; gets auctioned and bought for daft money because someone doesn't know better and thinks the record's rare. The record will keep turning up in droves, as it should, and eventually prices fall back to a level closer to where they should have been all along once the novelty has worn off.

The second is, IMHO, different to the first - apparently common record (because it's been a cheapie in sales boxes for years and years - "£5 - nice dancer" - we've all seen them, had them, binned them) but which folk 'in the know' (so to speak) acknowledge is in fact a fine record but it's never gone big in the past, probably for that very fact that it is perceived as a cheap, stocking-filler or 'soul-pack' 45, a 'tape-swappers' record. Said record is actually not that common after all (though not actually terribly rare either). The more discerning/'adventurous' DJ picks it up (because they play quality dancers and because they recognise that it's not actually all that common) and finally gives it its day and the record finally gets recognised for its quality after all. The record maintains a value commensurate with its quality. Nev mentioned the Flairs on Rap and Butch - classic examples in my view. Flairs - is it really that common? Butch - enough said.

Yours, just waiting to get shot down in flames now............

Had Flairs for years Mark, in fact theres 3 or 4 in the town where I live, personally I don,t think people suddenly realised it was quality, just an opinion but I reckon theres a lot of folk out there who only became interested because Mr Dobson was playing it, dito with Lee Fields, sorry, but nowt to do with quality, the "sheep" syndrome comes to mind, not Butch,s fault, the mans always played quality.

Kev

[NEV]

Steve's starts off with JM's auction, there is another about the criteria regarding records for auction. Ah well.......

I thought it was a pretty basic straight forward question ..but obviously ,as always things go off on a tangent ,and bring other similar topics into the fray ??

Ok peeps ..try and stick to the original question and not stray off the path please

P.s Chalky ...Steve's is from a Suvverners point of view ..mine's a Norvern one

Edited June 9, 2012 by NEV

[Ian Dewhirst]

I see nothing strange in people offering similar items up for sale at an "inflated" price,whatever that is.....i mean most people who do this are merely trying to capitalise on the "buzz" of the moment and whats wrong with that ? If it sells then you have some cash to spend on a nice item you couldnt normally afford. As we all know, record prices are forever fluctuating and who amongst us can truly know what others are prepared to pay for something ?..many collectors would gladly let something go for say £300,knowing full well they`ll pick another up in a years time for ,say,£50. I know i would......

Truer words were never spake Ivor. Records come in and out of fashion, especially after 45 years. The Soul City on Goodtime was mass imported in the early 70's and you could buy it easily for 25p like "Stanky (Get Funky)" - Billy Davis which no one wanted 'cos of the title and the fact it was common as muck and a soul pack record. Times sure change.

I wonder if it's time to wheel out my original Champion copy of "Tainted Love" that Marc Almond taped from me and then went on to sell 34,000,000 copies around the world? Boy, Manship would have a field day with that ay?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Butch is in a great position, in that he can pretty much dictate immediate interest in any tune he plays because he's the top guy. He's probably got a couple of hundred others that he'll unleash in coming years - they'd be called 'secret weapons' on other scenes. He'll almost certainly have a 'may play' section in his box for these kind of tracks which he may debut for a variety of reasons - atmosphere, how many chin-strokers are there in the place, where in the world he's playing etc, etc. He arguably has a wider choice than most but still has to have the guts to play 'em. If people had never heard Lee Fields over a loud system in their lives and then they heard Butch play it, the immediate reaction would be that they'd want a copy. So most of those now have to be prised out of 70's collections, hence the price hike.

Ian D

[NEV]

Hello Pete......Surely,it must depend on the item thats causing all the fuss ? I mean, all of the examples given[except your

" Footsee"] are actually reasonably tough to find in nice mint condition[surely the overriding factor with the benchmark busting prices]........? I mean they`re not ten a penny are they ?

I see nothing strange in people offering similar items up for sale at an "inflated" price,whatever that is.....i mean most people who do this are merely trying to capitalise on the "buzz" of the moment and whats wrong with that ? If it sells then you have some cash to spend on a nice item you couldnt normally afford. As we all know, record prices are forever fluctuating and who amongst us can truly know what others are prepared to pay for something ?..many collectors would gladly let something go for say £300,knowing full well they`ll pick another up in a years time for ,say,£50. I know i would......and anyway,with these auctions,there must be more than one person bidding the record up...... ? So there has to be some demand surely ?Also, I do wonder if the Solomon Burke demo was actually paid for ? Someone must have been pretty desperate to pay that..but if they did,then good luck to them.....

Best, Ivor

I'm not actually against the practice Ivor ....my question was along the lines of ...a record that is semi rare and normally sells for say £200 ,then just because one person with maybe too much money ,pays £600 for that semi rare record ..all of a sudden people assume this is now the going rate ?

In reality it is a one off and should not be an indicator of current value !

Take the Patty Stokes ...it went for £600+ on Manships auction ....so is that the going rate for a record that is not even rare ???

[Markw]

Had Flairs for years Mark, in fact theres 3 or 4 in the town where I live, personally I don,t think people suddenly realised it was quality, just an opinion but I reckon theres a lot of folk out there who only became interested because Mr Dobson was playing it, dito with Lee Fields, sorry, but nowt to do with quality, the "sheep" syndrome comes to mind, not Butch,s fault, the mans always played quality.

Kev

Yeah Kev, that's my point. Flairs has been known to a number of folk for years and years and unless you are 'in the know' wouldn't necessarily as a punter be aware what a great record was lurking under the surface. But it took a quality DJ to give it it's day - sure, there's a degree of sheep syndrome there, always will be. Sure too, there's a few folk in your neck of the woods with copies, as elsewhere. But does it come up for sale that often? Contrast with the Solomon Burke nonsense - big dancefloor demand on a tune that has sold in its millions over nearly 50 years and still does on CD compilations etc. Easy to find on original 45, US, UK, whatever. That's different to the Flairs which, whilst not a true rarity, isn't that common or easy to get hold of, especially now it is in demand and finally getting recognised and is sat on by folk that have always loved it even when it wasn't in demand and was cheap and are not willing to let it go (like you, I presume - though I have a mate that would like a copy if you're willing to sell............. - I keep refusing his constant overtures for mine.............. )

[Ian Seaman]

so where do folk think that these records off JM's auctions end up then ?? USA ?, Japan ?, Australia ??

Japanese seem to be spending loads of money on vinyl now so maybe .........

Ian.

[NEV]

so where do folk think that these records off JM's auctions end up then ?? USA ?, Japan ?, Australia ??

Japanese seem to be spending loads of money on vinyl now so maybe .........

Ian.

The Japanese have been buying rare records for a very long time ..and i would wager the Japanese economy is better than here ,thus making it easier to outbid most Uk /Usa buyers on ebay !

[Dylan]

so where do folk think that these records off JM's auctions end up then ?? USA ?, Japan ?, Australia ??

Japanese seem to be spending loads of money on vinyl now so maybe .........

Ian.

the japanese have been collecting soul just as long as we have.

some of the best collections are in japan.

its nothing new.

[Guest]

I wouldnt say sellers think we are thick, they just know people with no sense of what the value of a record should be are willing to pay these ludicrous prices. First and foremost there out to make money which is there bag, they have no sintement for fellow soul lovers who would love the record at a honest price imo of course

[Missgoldie]

Nev, I think it comes down to the fact that most people who buy spend more than they should and when an opportunity to make some cash on a record comes up some will jump on it rightly or wrongly.

[Quinvy]

It's all relative to a persons knowledge of records. What period you were involved in the "scene" and how serious a collector you were / are. When the Flairs and Lee Fields suddenly became "hot", I had never heard of them, and that goes for a massive amount of other people.

So, to us plebs they were new sounds. Therefore we didn't realise that these records had been known about for years. And that's why they go for silly money. People heard them for the first time and thought wow! I have to have that record.

[Dylan]

It's all relative to a persons knowledge of records. What period you were involved in the "scene" and how serious a collector you were / are. When the Flairs and Lee Fields suddenly became "hot", I had never heard of them, and that goes for a massive amount of other people.

So, to us plebs they were new sounds. Therefore we didn't realise that these records had been known about for years. And that's why they go for silly money. People heard them for the first time and thought wow! I have to have that record.

this is all true but when you hear and get blown away by a record you still have a chance to dig around for info before making a purchase.

certainly before spending big $$ anyway.

[KevH]

I was one of many i imagine,playing Lee Fields and Flairs as re-activated just before Butch.But once he touches a record,everyone wants it.LF went for £350 on JM's around that time,Flairs went to auction later,can't remember exact price - £250?

Sold both LF and Flairs under the going price to collector/dj's in the country,after i'd had my play out of them.Had many conversations about the 2 records and price,would be interested to find them for say,£30 nowadays?...

[Ernie Andrews]

I was one of many i imagine,playing Lee Fields and Flairs as re-activated just before Butch.But once he touches a record,everyone wants it.LF went for £350 on JM's around that time,Flairs went to auction later,can't remember exact price - £250?

Sold both LF and Flairs under the going price to collector/dj's in the country,after i'd had my play out of them.Had many conversations about the 2 records and price,would be interested to find them for say,£30 nowadays?...

Flairs possibly Lee fields will still command over 150 IMO

[Chalky]

I was one of many i imagine,playing Lee Fields and Flairs as re-activated just before Butch.But once he touches a record,everyone wants it.LF went for £350 on JM's around that time,Flairs went to auction later,can't remember exact price - £250?

Sold both LF and Flairs under the going price to collector/dj's in the country,after i'd had my play out of them.Had many conversations about the 2 records and price,would be interested to find them for say,£30 nowadays?...

Lee Fields went for £700 on one auction or thereabout.

Flairs has been on here recently, at least two copies at or around £150 and I don't think they sold straight away, they were later reduced. It shouldn't really be anymore than £80 or so. The days of it being £30 are long gone. Lee Fields seems to be around £250 when listed, again the days of getting this cheap are long gone.

[Chalky]

Most records we have a rough idea between us of its value due to years of being around the records, buying selling, going through boxes and lists etc. But at the end of the day whether we like it or not some are willing to go well beyond a records worth to get a copy. Often a simple search would locate one a lot cheaper, recent auctions and records listed on here bear out that point.

Yes they maybe lunatics let out on the day of an auctions finish, no we don't like it. And yes there are those out to exploit others almost straight away, those who hike their prices to match a recent auction or to make it look like they are doing someone a favour offer it a little bit cheaper when only a day earlier they had it at a fraction of the price, either way they are still exploiting collectors.

But at the end of the day a record is worth only what someone is willing to pay, if some loon wishes to pay two or three times over the odds that that is their business. Rarer records are getting harder to come by, especially those of quality.

[Kev Cane]

The Japanese have been buying rare records for a very long time ..and i would wager the Japanese economy is better than here ,thus making it easier to outbid most Uk /Usa buyers on ebay !

Tis right Nev, remember when the internet was just starting to kick in, when collectors used to scan the Discoveries paper to buy from American dealers before Manships guide, Rod Dearlove who we know was selling stuff through "Voices" was urging people to snap stuff up saying, "When the net kicks in, The Japs will clean up"

Kev

[Steve G]

I am not convinced that the Japanese market is that big anymore - but a dealer will be able to confirm or otherwise? They used to buy a lot of sweet / deep and at one time Soul Bowl produced a special Japanese list

Of course we've all seen the youtubes of northern being played there Keb / Butch etc, but would be interested to know how big is the collecting thing these days.

On the general thread prices will always go up for things that are in demand - examples like Flairs, Stratolinas on Federal etc. People hear them and want them. I see that as a different phenomenon to someone bidding £500 (and someone else bidding £495) for a UK Solomon Burke record. And then someone else offering a copy on here for £450 or whatever.

The joys of electronic bidding though are responsible - it's as simple as someone wants a record they bid over the top to ensure they get it no fuss. Someone else does the same - hey presto suddenly the record has gone for an OTT price. It has always gone on, and the amount of auctions I lost in the days when we wrote with our sealed bids, it's just you never saw what the winner paid in the old days - you just got told "better luck next time".

Edited June 9, 2012 by Steve G

[Steve G]

All slightly different though, Steve's is more scattershot, the one about selection for auctions is definitely different and this one is more about people selling records based on auction prices, I wouldn't merge them personally..

Yes it was a general discussion about the changed dynamics of collecting records.....which is multi facetted or scatter gun

[Wiggyflat]

I'm seeing old soul pack stuff selling at top prices...Helena Hollis Baby You're right 150 quid....Artus You are better 150 quid....15 Cent Love at 100 quid....prices just seem to be on the up and up.

[Kev Cane]

I was one of many i imagine,playing Lee Fields and Flairs as re-activated just before Butch.But once he touches a record,everyone wants it.LF went for £350 on JM's around that time,Flairs went to auction later,can't remember exact price - £250?

Sold both LF and Flairs under the going price to collector/dj's in the country,after i'd had my play out of them.Had many conversations about the 2 records and price,would be interested to find them for say,£30 nowadays?...

Lee Fields was getting played in the NE years ago Kev as you probably already know and had been kicking around for years long before Butch played it, so lots of people had heard it being played by collectors who had been asked to DJ at the odd nighter but mainly at Soul nights, then those same people who had heard it played and probably ignored it are suddenly reaching into their pockets for their cheque books as soon as Butch plays it, this has always stuck in my teeth with regards to the soul scene, all of a sudden its a great record cos so and so is playing it, pathetic when you think of it, same scenario with the Flairs, it was kicking about for years so people had heard it. Always prefered flip of Flairs "Where you live" and hopefully if the campaign for mid-tempo ever succeeds it could be a monster

Kev

[NEV]

Sherrell brothers springs to mind Kev ...I remember Shep selling up and it was on his sales list for £20 on here ,only about 3yr since.

,he couldn't sell it so reduced it to a tenner .

A yr later Butch put it in his set and whoosh ..£300 a go and on a lot of wants lists !

Even now it's still highly sought after ?

This however is going off on a tangent from my original post

[Steve G]

Even now it's still highly sought after ?

.....and requested.

[KevH]

Lee Fields went for £700 on one auction or thereabout.

Flairs has been on here recently, at least two copies at or around £150 and I don't think they sold straight away, they were later reduced. It shouldn't really be anymore than £80 or so. The days of it being £30 are long gone. Lee Fields seems to be around £250 when listed, again the days of getting this cheap are long gone.

Thats right Chalky,,£757 for LF my mistake.Sold on here the next day ,up at £600.

[KevH]

Lee Fields was getting played in the NE years ago Kev as you probably already know and had been kicking around for years long before Butch played it, so lots of people had heard it being played by collectors who had been asked to DJ at the odd nighter but mainly at Soul nights, then those same people who had heard it played and probably ignored it are suddenly reaching into their pockets for their cheque books as soon as Butch plays it, this has always stuck in my teeth with regards to the soul scene, all of a sudden its a great record cos so and so is playing it, pathetic when you think of it, same scenario with the Flairs, it was kicking about for years so people had heard it. Always prefered flip of Flairs "Where you live" and hopefully if the campaign for mid-tempo ever succeeds it could be a monster

Kev

Off topic,so last post on here.LF was a Mecca spin,CCurtis tune, so def well known.Re vitalised at the right time,just "right for now" as they say.

It shouldn't stick in your teeth Nev,Butch's influenced plays keep the scene buoyant and moving.Flairs was a Stafford tune,altho i never went.The flip did get spun a few times when i had it to good reception.In fact, if i did buy it back it would be for the flip.

Edited June 9, 2012 by KevH

[boba]

I am not convinced that the Japanese market is that big anymore - but a dealer will be able to confirm or otherwise? They used to buy a lot of sweet / deep and at one time Soul Bowl produced a special Japanese list

there definitely still are Japanese collectors, not only older deep soul collectors but lots of the rare funk 45s are in younger people's collections over there. If you're looking for a specific funk 45, a Japanese funk collector is your best resource. And obviously there's LP collectors in different genres.

Japanese collectors seem more conservative in bidding and (mostly) not stupid enough to go crazy for a 45 and bid ridiculous prices because it just sold for a ridiculous price or because someone else has it and they have to emulate that person. Waiting it out is the difference between being in it for the long run and building up knowledge versus just trying to be what's hip. If you buy good records (versus popular records), eventually the good records you bought will be popular. I don't understand the whole buy high - unable to sell later approach that people have. I think it's driven by DJ culture.

[Steve G]

Thanks for the perspective on Japanese collecting today, and yes I'd agree with your last point re the DJ culture as well.

[Quinvy]

I have it on good authority from a well known record dealer that the Japanese market did go through a decline, but it's back very strong now and with a lot of northern being sold. John Manship during his rant at me on the other thread stated that the Ty Karim was won by a Japanese collector. And I witnessed a bidding war on a classic northern record a few weeks ago and one of the bidders was again Japanese.

[Milliontearsoul]

...........very soon now rare soul records will be not available under thousands of pounds......millions maybe when Manship , Brown & others will be replaced by sotheby's..........

Edited June 9, 2012 by mike
pm me if you need to know why this was edited

[Guest jb000]

Sherrell brothers springs to mind Kev ...I remember Shep selling up and it was on his sales list for £20 on here ,only about 3yr since.

,he couldn't sell it so reduced it to a tenner .

A yr later Butch put it in his set and whoosh ..£300 a go and on a lot of wants lists !

Even now it's still highly sought after ?

This however is going off on a tangent from my original post

Got Sherrell Brothers off Roger Banks sales tape early 90's for £10, sold it early this year for £350 to buy a 3 records that had been on my wants list for ages!, job done

[Guest jb000]

sold my Lee Fields for £200 and bought Timmy Thomas "Whats bothering me" for £30, when this becomes 'in demand' I'll flog it for £200 and buy another equally as good record for £20, simples!

[Grayman45]

I can't see the Northern Soul scene living on for long (I mean after our generation) with records so highly priced. What young person would want to start collecting original vinyl, with anything decent / popular going for hundreds of pounds.

[Mike Lofthouse]

there definitely still are Japanese collectors, not only older deep soul collectors but lots of the rare funk 45s are in younger people's collections over there. If you're looking for a specific funk 45, a Japanese funk collector is your best resource. And obviously there's LP collectors in different genres.

Japanese collectors seem more conservative in bidding and (mostly) not stupid enough to go crazy for a 45 and bid ridiculous prices because it just sold for a ridiculous price or because someone else has it and they have to emulate that person. Waiting it out is the difference between being in it for the long run and building up knowledge versus just trying to be what's hip. If you buy good records (versus popular records), eventually the good records you bought will be popular. I don't understand the whole buy high - unable to sell later approach that people have. I think it's driven by DJ culture.

Bob nails it once again

[Markw]

Good points John Browne. Every record started life cheap - didn't Joanne Courcy come out of a soul pack, supposedly? For me the really peculiar ones are the things like Solomon Burke - you have to be a berk to pay £500 for a record that must have sold in the hundreds of thousands. Surprised Marvin & Tammi's "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" hasn't hit 3 figures by now..........

Edited June 9, 2012 by markw

[KevH]

sold my Lee Fields for £200 and bought Timmy Thomas "Whats bothering me" for £30, when this becomes 'in demand' I'll flog it for £200 and buy another equally as good record for £20, simples!

And John,as you know TT went up to about 100 when re-vitalised,then back down again.You only need one person to make it in demand.The one who ain't got it.Another Mecca sleeper..pattern emerging....

[Shsdave]

Lee Fields was getting played in the NE years ago Kev as you probably already know and had been kicking around for years long before Butch played it, so lots of people had heard it being played by collectors who had been asked to DJ at the odd nighter but mainly at Soul nights, then those same people who had heard it played and probably ignored it are suddenly reaching into their pockets for their cheque books as soon as Butch plays it, this has always stuck in my teeth with regards to the soul scene, all of a sudden its a great record cos so and so is playing it, pathetic when you think of it, same scenario with the Flairs, it was kicking about for years so people had heard it. Always prefered flip of Flairs "Where you live" and hopefully if the campaign for mid-tempo ever succeeds it could be a monster

Kev

Always the same ! Years back I used to play Johnny Howard The chase is on & nobody was really interested. Butch started playing it, price shot up & of course if i played it everyone wanted to dance to it. Do "DJs" announce Butch likes/plays this to get people up & dancing ?