A Fair Point

[Bitchdj]

before i start may i please ask that no one swears or gets aggressive..i am just seeing if you agree ....

i was at a venue recently chatting to a chap who is well aware of my views on certain genres of music ( nuff sed bout that then )....he said something that made absolute sense to me and explains a lot about this little scene of ours..i am just seeing if you agree or disagree with his statement.....

people on the oldies scene are far more accepting of R&B being played as newies...than they would be of a rare soul newie being played....

strange but actually quite true

cookie

Edited December 27, 2005 by bitchdj

[Simsy]

people on the oldies scene ar far more accepting of R&B being played as newies...than they would be of a rare soul newie being played....

strange but actually quite true

cookie

Not sure about that mate 'oldies' part of whole scene for a start and how could he generalise on 'rare soul newie' - uptempo? mid tempo? ballad?

Having said all that, I kind of understand the point he was trying to make. Interesting point.

[Soulsmith]

I wouldn't know whether thats correct or not.

Sounds to me though, that the chap was making a generalisation and thats rarely a healthy thing to do.

Col.

Ha ha, just read Simsy comments. Think we might be joined at the hip

Edited December 27, 2005 by Soulsmith

[Bitchdj]

Not sure about that mate 'oldies' part of whole scene for a start and how could he generalise on 'rare soul newie' - uptempo? mid tempo? ballad?

Having said all that, I kind of understand the point he was trying to make. Interesting point.

i think wot he actually meant was...ermmm...well i did him a cd of virtually unknown/underplayed up tempo stuff and he made the comment..yes its good stuff but would kill the floor at most oldies venues because its unknown no matter how good a tune...but an unknown R&B fing was more likely to get a reaction on the dancefloor...like i said strange but true.....

cookie

Cookie, what exactly do you mean by rare soul newie?

Andy

i think it was aimed at most underplayed stuff not in the top 100 andy lol

cookie

[Simsy]

i think wot he actually meant was...ermmm...well i did him a cd of virtually unknown/underplayed up tempo stuff and he made the comment..yes its good stuff but would kill the floor at most oldies venues because its unknown no matter how good a tune...but an unknown R&B fing was more likely to get a reaction on the dancefloor...like i said strange but true.....

cookie

Yeah regardless of tempo a northern newie is still northern. Whereas R&B is an offshoot and therefor a little different/novelty?

Now we await comments from oldies heads that hate R&B!

[Guest Matt Male]

As i see it a newie is any sound not played out before, 60s 70s whatever.. so if the oldies scene (i didn't know there was one btw) is accepting of any newies, doesn't it stop being an oldies scene?

Also, i always wondered how long it takes for something to become an 'oldie' on the scene a month? a year? ten years? As soon as it receives it's first play? When do we decide when something is suddenly relegated to 'oldies nights'?

This is why i enjoy a good mix whenever i go out, i want to hear new stuff, oldies, 60s, 70s, R&B, most things...I don't like pigeon-holes for soul.

Matt

[Simsy]

Also, i always wondered how long it takes for something to become an 'oldie' on the scene a month? a year? ten years? As soon as it receives it's first play? When do we decide when something is suddenly relegated to 'oldies nights'?

Matt

Good question, I've asked before ....

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...wtopic=20660&hl=

Would appear no one really knows.

How about a sound that's broken, goes big, is played bordering on excessively then rested with intermittent bursts ... ?

Digression you understand not diverting subject of R&B reception to the oldies ear point

[Bitchdj]

i really think his point was lesser known underplayed stuff not necessarily dog rare or owt..and he was generalising on venues mainly attended by people who go out once a year to the local soul bash....

bloody ell i prob just made it all worse..he by the way is an out and out R&B fan

cookie

[Chalky]

IMO some of the stuff the "oldies" crowd as you name them accept are catchier and more instant (instantly forgettable as well as quickly gets boring) than some of the more soulful newies.

[Geordiejohnson]

Just an observation of my own, a few of my friends from long ago attended a soul night recently after years of not attending, at the end of the night they enthused over tracks they had not heard before such as A.C Reed, my babys been cheatin, Cookie jackson, do you still love me, Billy ekstine, I wonder why, but were not impressed by The Appreciations, its better to cry or bobby kline...so i suppose the R&B comment from the opening thread holds true in this case..... why i dont know , but Im sure some philosopher's and learned sages on here will set us straight

Geeoooordie

[Guest hammy]

The soul scene does suffer from endless categorisation at times. Oldie, newie, crossover, tent music, rare soul - the list goes on and on ... and on. Dance to it if you like it, sit down if you don't. I think we're all guilty of it. R&B probably is more accepted than upfront rare soul, probably because - like chalky says - it's more immediate.

There's always other issues that prevent records getting to their true potential. I can't think of another type of dance music where people won't dance if it wasn't played by DJ X, in club Y, back in the year DOT! lol Shame there aren't more young people on the scene - as they tend to just react to what they hear without baggage, or rose tinted memories.

Classic example - Andy Dyson at Caledonia Soul in Glasgow a few months back. I doubt more than 5% of the people in that venue knew most of the tracks Andy was playing and yet the floor was rammed all night because they 'liked' it. They didn't care what it was called - to them it was SOUL music, and didn't need pigeonholing any further.

Hammy

[Simsy]

Cookie jackson, do you still love me

She clearly says "Ian Sims" during that song - no question ...

The soul scene does suffer from endless categorisation at times. Oldie, newie, crossover, tent music, rare soul - the list goes on and on ... and on. Dance to it if you like it, sit down if you don't. I think we're all guilty of it. R&B probably is more accepted than upfront rare soul, probably because - like chalky says - it's more immediate.

There's always other issues that prevent records getting to their true potential. I can't think of another type of dance music where people won't dance if it wasn't played by DJ X, in club Y, back in the year DOT! lol Shame there aren't more young people on the scene - as they tend to just react to what they hear without baggage, or rose tinted memories.

Classic example - Andy Dyson at Caledonia Soul in Glasgow a few months back. I doubt more than 5% of the people in that venue knew most of the tracks Andy was playing and yet the floor was rammed all night because they 'liked' it. They didn't care what it was called - to them it was SOUL music, and didn't need pigeonholing any further.

Hammy

Damn fine points raised if I may say so.

Good to see you back Hammy (if indeed you are back).

[Mace]

Okay Cookie....I'll bite....

Think the basis of your point is quite true Cookie...depending on whether you are referring to R&B as in the likes of Charles Sheffield, Cookie Jackson, Big Daddy Rogers etc (all of which could actually be called oldies now ) or tunes that that get labelled R&B even though theye are not (Larry Trider, Dean Barlow etc) and before any confusion sets in and feathers get ruffled I collect, play and enjoy the likes of the latter 2 examples, but they are not R&B....seems as though anything newish and unknown that does not sit nicely in the typical Northern mould gets called R&B for some bizarre reason.

However, your point is a valid one and quite true from my experience...I can get an oldies crowd dancing more effectively with 'catchy' R&B and popcorn than I can with lesser known soul tunes.

...think the key word being catchy...most of the R&B and popcorn type tunes that have caught on over the last few years are exactly that....love or hate 'em they are catchy and infectious.

This has also in my opinion become the basis of the deep resentment from some soulies (DJs/dealers inparticular) towards R&B.....they don't appreciate or value it, or for that matter want to (until it becomes silly money ), and they feel the rest of the scene should feel the same.

Just glad I can appreciate it all and enjoy a wealth of music.....

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...except that disco shite like.....

[Bitchdj]

Okay Cookie....I'll bite....

Think the basis of your point is quite true Cookie...depending on whether you are referring to R&B as in the likes of Charles Sheffield, Cookie Jackson, Big Daddy Rogers etc (all of which could actually be called oldies now ) or tunes that that get labelled R&B even though theye are not (Larry Trider, Dean Barlow etc) and before any confusion sets in and feathers get ruffled I collect, play and enjoy the likes of the latter 2 examples, but they are not R&B....seems as though anything newish and unknown that does not sit nicely in the typical Northern mould gets called R&B for some bizarre reason.

However, your point is a valid one and quite true from my experience...I can get an oldies crowd dancing more effectively with 'catchy' R&B and popcorn than I can with lesser known soul tunes.

...think the key word being catchy...most of the R&B and popcorn type tunes that have caught on over the last few years are exactly that....love or hate 'em they are catchy and infectious.

This has also in my opinion become the basis of the deep resentment from some soulies (DJs/dealers inparticular) towards R&B.....they don't appreciate or value it, or for that matter want to (until it becomes silly money ), and they feel the rest of the scene should feel the same.

Just glad I can appreciate it all and enjoy a wealth of music.....

>

>

>

>

>

...except that disco shite like.....

i quite like sum of that disco stuff....

cookie

[Guest Dodger]

...think the key word being catchy...most of the R&B and popcorn type tunes that have caught on over the last few years are exactly that....love or hate 'em they are catchy and infectious.

So is Chlamidya. Personally I would like to contract it and listen to r&b in equal proportions.

[Guest Netspeaky]

Okay Cookie....I'll bite....

Think the basis of your point is quite true Cookie...depending on whether you are referring to R&B as in the likes of Charles Sheffield, Cookie Jackson, Big Daddy Rogers etc (all of which could actually be called oldies now ) or tunes that that get labelled R&B even though theye are not (Larry Trider, Dean Barlow etc) and before any confusion sets in and feathers get ruffled I collect, play and enjoy the likes of the latter 2 examples, but they are not R&B....seems as though anything newish and unknown that does not sit nicely in the typical Northern mould gets called R&B for some bizarre reason.

However, your point is a valid one and quite true from my experience...I can get an oldies crowd dancing more effectively with 'catchy' R&B and popcorn than I can with lesser known soul tunes.

...think the key word being catchy...most of the R&B and popcorn type tunes that have caught on over the last few years are exactly that....love or hate 'em they are catchy and infectious.

This has also in my opinion become the basis of the deep resentment from some soulies (DJs/dealers inparticular) towards R&B.....they don't appreciate or value it, or for that matter want to (until it becomes silly money ), and they feel the rest of the scene should feel the same.

Just glad I can appreciate it all and enjoy a wealth of music.....

>

>

>

>

>

...except that disco shite like.....

What do you think tracks, that had GO GO, BOO-GA-LOO, OUT ON THE FLOOR and all them other Dance Craze like the Monkey were aimed at, My guess it was the DISCO.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Netspeaky

[Mace]

Just one mention of the word 'disco' and the fish bite in droves.....

[Mace]

So is Chlamidya. Personally I would like to contract it and listen to r&b in equal proportions.

Roger, both can be quite easily arranged if you are as willing and easy as rumours suggest....

[Mace]

What do you think tracks, that had GO GO, BOO-GA-LOO, OUT ON THE FLOOR and all them other Dance Craze like the Monkey were aimed at, My guess it was the DISCO.

Actually, from what I hear R&B and popcorn was aimed at the hop and the barn dances

[sister dawn]

lovin the "old" R n B style tracks, and am collecting a few thanks to me mentor Dave whom has played some excellent tracks when at Ad Lib, and I am what can only be described as a retro girl

[Guest Dodger]

Roger, both can be quite easily arranged if you are as willing and easy as rumours suggest....

Mace, I think you'll have one major league struggle to get me to listen willingly to an r&b dirge mate!! Mind you, after the Christmas excesses I have been partial to this:

[Mace]

Mace, I think you'll have one major league struggle to get me to listen willingly to an r&b dirge mate!!

Notice you don't dismiss the offer of a dose of the clap though you 'owd slapper of a disco bunny....