The benefit of your wisdom and experience is kindly requested folks. Won an item off Ebay for $43 - no postage cost quoted. Seller now wants $31. When queried, they say:

"Express with tracking is required by Paypal. 31 dollars is the cost."

I have replied that I've not come across this before.

Any thoughts, advice etc gratefully received.

Thanks

Tell them to stick it, thats taking the p£ss.{ I am assuming that it's a record you have bought and not an anvil }.

Edited May 25, 201213 yr by Paddywack

Only do what you think is reasonable, at any time you can jettison and call in the eBay police. They'll often wish for a quiet life. Ultimately don't be afraid to say "no".

It does seem steep, the most ive ever paid from the us to the uk is 18$ and that was theft, generally it's $14 tops.

Good luck.

I'm not too sure if ebay will side with the seller if you don't pay. What you can do is pay it via paypal and if the postage is a lot less than a couple of dollarsof the amount you paid, put in an excessive postage claim with ebay/paypal.

Edited May 25, 201213 yr by John Reed

John, if you say to the seller, sorry, it's theft and open a complaint with eBay stating it's steep, which it is, they'll probably cancel it. If you pay via PayPal and then claim it can get tricky. But that's just me.

This is useful chaps, but is there any truth in the seller's statement to me?

- "Express with tracking is required by Paypal. 31 dollars is the cost."

The thing is its hard to tell if it's true. It may well be, you can check on the postal companies website. Normally the scam is that extra dosh is put on for 'packaging'.

Can I ask, is it a 45" or LP?

Not that I know of, if they continue to state this ask for the evidence of this or ask paypal/ebay directly for it. They will not want sellers making up stuff about what they are supposed to have said.

Edited May 25, 201213 yr by hold tight

You do not have to accept "Express with tracking is required by Paypal".

You have not asked for express delivery and Paypal don't stipulate any criteria for tracking of the parcel,that is set between the seller and the buyer.

The seller should have set the postage costs in the listing,not after it has finished,they are in breach of the code and rules of ebay.

This sounds very much like a postage scam,tell them what i have told you and see what their reply is,they have a LEGAL duty to set an honest

postage,remind them that the listing is LEGALLY BINDING,do the decent thing or they will be reported to ebay and negative feedback will

be left for them,hopefully putting the frighteners on them might work and they do the decent thing.

If they don't act for you,report them and leave negative feedback,the buyer does not have to put up with this intimidation.

Hope this helps,

KTF,

Ron.

Edited May 25, 201213 yr by Wigan Dancer

  On 25/05/2012 at 21:10, ashleysoul said:

The thing is its hard to tell if it's true. It may well be, you can check on the postal companies website. Normally the scam is that extra dosh is put on for 'packaging'.

Can I ask, is it a 45" or LP?

It's a 45. The question is not so much whether there is some US postal service that will cost $31, but whether there is any truth that Paypal require "express with tracking". If it is, I never come across anyone who has insisted on that.

PayPal doesn't require it.

It's a con.

Walk away now!

Good luck.

  On 25/05/2012 at 21:10, ashleysoul said:

The thing is its hard to tell if it's true. It may well be, you can check on the postal companies website. Normally the scam is that extra dosh is put on for 'packaging'.

Can I ask, is it a 45" or LP?

It's a 45. The question is not so much whether there is some US postal service that will cost $31, but whether there is any truth that Paypal require "express with tracking". If it is, I never come across anyone who has insisted on that.

  On 25/05/2012 at 21:10, ashleysoul said:

The thing is its hard to tell if it's true. It may well be, you can check on the postal companies website. Normally the scam is that extra dosh is put on for 'packaging'.

Can I ask, is it a 45" or LP?

It's a 45. The question is not so much whether there is some US postal service that will cost $31, but whether there is any truth that Paypal require "express with tracking". If it is, I never come across anyone who has insisted on that.

  On 25/05/2012 at 21:39, markw said:

It's a 45. The question is not so much whether there is some US postal service that will cost $31, but whether there is any truth that Paypal require "express with tracking". If it is, I never come across anyone who has insisted on that.

The postage rules are set by ebay not Paypal

Paypal is just a safe financial tool used to pay for the item,it is a safe convenience.

This is a scam/con

The world is full of t***s like your seller,don't be bullied into anything,YOU DICTATE TO THEM !!!.

Edited May 25, 201213 yr by Wigan Dancer

  On 25/05/2012 at 21:39, markw said:

It's a 45. The question is not so much whether there is some US postal service that will cost $31, but whether there is any truth that Paypal require "express with tracking". If it is, I never come across anyone who has insisted on that.

Paypal changes its rules almost every week so good chance seller is (sort of) right. But what puzzles me, have you ever asked the seller to send you any evidence of said Paypal requirement?

  On 25/05/2012 at 21:47, Benji said:

Paypal changes its rules almost every week so good chance seller is (sort of) right. But what puzzles me, have you ever asked the seller to send you any evidence of said Paypal requirement?

Seller is not right,postage should have been set in the listing,not after it has finished,that is misleading and fraud,the listing is legally binding.

I've bought tonnes of records off eBay and never once have I been forced to pay 31$.

  On 25/05/2012 at 21:55, ashleysoul said:

I've bought tonnes of records off eBay and never once have I been forced to pay 31$.

Totally agree,i have bought and sold loads of stuff and take my word,the seller has to be up front all the way with postage costs and what

they hate is negative feedback,if you are honest with the buyer they will come back to you in the future,common sense really.

I have 100% postive feedback by the way.

Got to go now,good luck!!!.

Edited May 25, 201213 yr by Wigan Dancer

Cheers all, definitely not right (says he, choosing words carefully...........). This is the response to my initial query about this Paypal require "express with tracking" stuff:

Due to inactivity on my account Paypal is trying to impose a temporary hold on Ebay items. Please resend the payment as goods/merchandise and note what you are paying for. You are still protected under buyer protection using this method. I refunded your payment. ID (deleted this detail for now)

Thank

I have now sent a fairly stiff reply along the lines suggested by Wigan Dancer (thanks mate) and given 24 hours for a satisfactory response or I shall report to Ebay.

Many thanks to everybody for their trouble and advice on this, it's really appreciated.

Shall keep you all posted.

Good luck. For every con artist on the 'bay there are 300 cool ones do Ktf brother.

Good luck!

for what it's worth express with tracking from the US to UK is now like $38. It's not "required" by paypal but paypal almost always sides with the buyer on claims unless you have a tracking number. Express gives you that. So I don't think the seller was trying to rip you off, he was trying to protect himself from chargebacks.

  On 25/05/2012 at 20:55, markw said:

This is useful chaps, but is there any truth in the seller's statement to me?

- "Express with tracking is required by Paypal. 31 dollars is the cost."

You can use the USPS.com page to calculate postage. If I'm not mistaken, 1 single 45 is going to be about 6oz if packed in a Bags Unlimited box with two filler pads. For a $48 record, I wouldn't think twice about charging First Class postage. Actually, after looking at the site it appears that I'm charging too little! I've been asking $6 and paying about $6.90. I have only rarely insisted on Express shipping, and in those cases there are some interesting reasons why. If the seller wants tracking, Registered 1st Class is the safest and less expensive. Priority Intl (if paid online) also provides tracking. Insisting on Express sounds like they're going to use flat rate envelopes and probably not pack your record(s) very safely....but who knows. eBay is full of crazy people.

  On 26/05/2012 at 03:41, Agent45 said:

You can use the USPS.com page to calculate postage. If I'm not mistaken, 1 single 45 is going to be about 6oz if packed in a Bags Unlimited box with two filler pads. For a $48 record, I wouldn't think twice about charging First Class postage. Actually, after looking at the site it appears that I'm charging too little! I've been asking $6 and paying about $6.90. I have only rarely insisted on Express shipping, and in those cases there are some interesting reasons why. If the seller wants tracking, Registered 1st Class is the safest and less expensive. Priority Intl (if paid online) also provides tracking. Insisting on Express sounds like they're going to use flat rate envelopes and probably not pack your record(s) very safely....but who knows. eBay is full of crazy people.

They raised rates, I haven't sent anything overseas for less than $6.90 this year.

I'm not sure paypal accepts registered #s as a seller's proof. There is a page on their site showing their recommendations, they recommend priority int'l under a certain amount and then express above it.

Also, you can pack a regular 45 mailer and then put it in a flat rate mailer, the flat rate mailer doesn't necessarily mean it's not packed well. But like you said ebay is full of crazies, who knows how they're planning to send it.

The USA and UK postal services are generally very good,so there is no point in sending express with tracking unless the BUYER wants it,

the seller had a duty to provide postage costs in the listing,it is no good hitting the buyer with large postage costs once the listing has

finished.Say the item only sold for $10 and then hit for $31 postage,crazy scenario.

The way that the seller has handled this is disgusting,it is very dodgy to do this to a buyer,this is not normal practice and my suspicions

are aroused,if they are genuine then ask the buyer what does he or she want,you cannot force someone to accept the postage costs

after the listing has closed.

I know i am repeating myself,THE SELLER MUST STATE THE POSTAGE COSTS IN THE LISTING,NOT AFTERWARDS!!!

Postal rates with tracking are very expensive now. Many of the sellers in the U.S. will not send 45's to the UK without tracking. Some won't do so without insurance, and we all know what that entails. Customs duty! There must have been a spate of false claims that has made all the sellers very wary.

I recently had to pay $31, I didn't notice his shipping prices until I had won the auction. That was bad enough, but then the guy forgot to post it, and it took 2 months for me to finally get it.

Not a ebay auction here but I got a longtime want on discog for a reasonable price. Then the seller told me i had so pay 39 $ EXPRESS international shipping with tracking number. Has a LOT of positive feedback on discogs. Not yet here but i will let you know if the price was correct.

If there is no postage rates listed, then why not enquire before bidding? Surely that way all these misunderstandings could be avoided.

I would normally ask beforehand or query if postage quoted was high, but didn't have time on this occasion. Anyway, I've just logged on and this is what they say:

"I am not sure what happened here. You received an invoive with an error. As i stated tracking is required for items with a total over 50 dollars. I apologize for the error and have sent a new invoice for standard airmail."

This followed last night's frank exchange which perhaps threatened the Special Relationship between our 2 great nations:

HIM TO ME:

"Pay through Ebay, this has nothing to do with the cost of shipping. Paypal requires online tracking and it costs $31 through USPS. I am in compliance with Paypal and Ebay rules for shipping, if there is a problem it is with them. Paypal requires online tracking, this is not personal gain. If payment is not made I will file a non paying bidder claim."

ME TO HIM:

"Paypal does not 'require' online tracking - it recommends, but does not require. Also, it does not insist on Express and you can do online tracking without express.

Where you are not in compliance with Ebay rules is in failing to advertise with the listing that you (yes, you - not Ebay, not Paypal) are insisting on express online tracking at high cost.

You can file a non-paying bidder claim if you wish, though I am perfectly willing to pay for the item. I am just not willing to pay for unecessary postage charges at such exorbitant levels. If you had advertised postage at this level of charge, I would not have bid for the item. Bring it down to a reasonable level and I shall settle immediately. Insist on wanting to charge me $31 and we shall allow Ebay to adjudicate."

He's now reduced postage from $31 to $8. Perhaps I should be worried about what state this 45 is going to arrive in? If it arrives at all!!?

The guy does have a 100% rating and 1059. But all this still looks dodgy to me quite frankly.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice. Just got to hope the 45 comes through OK!

  On 26/05/2012 at 11:00, Wigan Dancer said:

The USA and UK postal services are generally very good,so there is no point in sending express with tracking unless the BUYER wants it,

I don't think you understand the perspective of the seller (and this is coming from a person who buys zillions of records on ebay and never sells). The tracking isn't protection against the post office. It's protection against fradulent "never arrived" chargebacks. I'm on another message board filled with record dealers always complaining and describing how this actually adds up to a relatively large percentage of all sales (although it's more prevalent in certain countries).

  On 26/05/2012 at 11:00, Wigan Dancer said:

I know i am repeating myself,THE SELLER MUST STATE THE POSTAGE COSTS IN THE LISTING,NOT AFTERWARDS!!!

100% agree

https://ircalc.usps.com/Default.aspx?country=10150&m=6&p=0&o=7&mt=5

Go here

If you add registered @ $11.75

That's insured and tracked ( bit of a PIA to track , but doable)

if you make it bulletproof at 7oz it still clocks in at under $20

He's taking the p***

T

I never knew that you're not supposed to send anything over $400 with registered (was on the website, text below).

1. The content value is less than or equal to $400

PS Form 2976, Customs - CN 22 - Sender's Declaration

(online form)

2. The content value is greater than $400

Items over $400 are not allowed to be mailed using this service. The item must be mailed using Global Express Guaranteed service, Express Mail International service, or Priority Mail International service (other than Flat Rate Envelopes or Small Flat Rate Priced Boxes). Please choose another mailing service.

----------------------

it says this on the website too which contradicts it. I'm not sure the insurance is included in the registered price though.

Registered Mail¢Å¾¢ Service

Get maximum security for your valuable items. Registered Mail items can be insured for up to $25,000 at your Post Office.

Edited May 27, 201213 yr by boba

There are differing amounts for domestic and International but with registered it's always insured, inc in price.

Usually it varies with the brightness of the clerk.

In theory it travels from lock box (safe) to lock box (safe) that's why its slower.

I didn't add it up but I think even if you buy seperate insurance it still clocks in at barely $20

Yeah $400 seems to be a cut off for several of the POs services.

  On 27/05/2012 at 00:54, Mr Smithy said:

There are differing amounts for domestic and International but with registered it's always insured, inc in price.

Usually it varies with the brightness of the clerk.

In theory it travels from lock box (safe) to lock box (safe) that's why its slower.

I didn't add it up but I think even if you buy seperate insurance it still clocks in at barely $20

Yeah $400 seems to be a cut off for several of the POs services.

I was trying to say above that I've heard paypal won't take the registration number as tracking in a claim, which is why the seller is not necessarily trying to rip off the buyer. I think you might need a signature required service.

That's quite possible, but as it's the PO that supposedly "loses it" in these things

rather than deal with PP / EB which as a seller is like betting on the blue in roulette

You can track it and find out if it did get there eventually and get your money back from the PO

after PP has scarfed it from your account

Then you can take it up with PP/ EB or whatever. It's cheaper for the buyer and should satisfy them if they're on the level

and eventually proves them liars if they're not.

T

  On 27/05/2012 at 01:27, Mr Smithy said:

That's quite possible, but as it's the PO that supposedly "loses it" in these things

rather than deal with PP / EB which as a seller is like betting on the blue in roulette

You can track it and find out if it did get there eventually and get your money back from the PO

after PP has scarfed it from your account

Then you can take it up with PP/ EB or whatever. It's cheaper for the buyer and should satisfy them if they're on the level

and eventually proves them liars if they're not.

T

Another negative about registered is that if you want insurance you have to declare full value.

Also, have you ever tried to do an insurance postal claim for a broken record? it's usually hopeless, although I know some people in smaller cities who have done it successfully.

One of the best options (which most sellers don't currently use) is to send it first class international and insure through a 3rd party like endicia. You can declare whatever you want on the customs too, and the insurance is cheaper and they supposedly pay much more often.

I've heard of Endicia, but don't know much about it

No, if I've registered something I've never had a problem , I had one go missing for a month or so in Gemany but I put in a track and the buyer did and they found it and all was hunky dory, but EB wasn't involved in that and he was patient enough not to bother PP although I can't actually remember if PP was involved.

Back to the initial point though, charging $40 is really pushing it, there are several ways to do it without resorting to extortion.

  On 27/05/2012 at 03:11, Mr Smithy said:

I've heard of Endicia, but don't know much about it

No, if I've registered something I've never had a problem , I had one go missing for a month or so in Gemany but I put in a track and the buyer did and they found it and all was hunky dory, but EB wasn't involved in that and he was patient enough not to bother PP although I can't actually remember if PP was involved.

Back to the initial point though, charging $40 is really pushing it, there are several ways to do it without resorting to extortion.

I have never had a package lost as a seller, registered or unregistered. But I don't understand why everyone is missing the point of the seller wanting a shipping method that protects themselves from fraudulent chargebacks. Again, it's protecting the seller, not the buyer. Whether it needs to be $40 or not is another issue, but the problem isn't that the seller sends a package that actually gets lost or damaged. You might be the most honest person in the world, but the seller doesn't know that. And there are specific countries where chargebacks are extremely frequent.

I agree it's protecting the seller, but also about being fair to the buyer.

That's why it's nice to keep 3rd parties out of the frame.

Stuff does happen out there and hard and fast sometimes ridiculous rules from PP /EB don't help.

In countries where it happens, I tend to use registered as it seems to work and is not outrageous.

The Endicia looks like it might be worth a glim though.

  On 26/05/2012 at 22:43, boba said:

I don't think you understand the perspective of the seller (and this is coming from a person who buys zillions of records on ebay and never sells). The tracking isn't protection against the post office. It's protection against fradulent "never arrived" chargebacks. I'm on another message board filled with record dealers always complaining and describing how this actually adds up to a relatively large percentage of all sales (although it's more prevalent in certain countries).

100% agree

Good point boba,i see were you are coming from and completely understand.Not all buyers are honest and do try to claim their money back

against the seller,what a world we live in eh!!!

  On 27/05/2012 at 19:46, Wigan Dancer said:

Good point boba,i see were you are coming from and completely understand.Not all buyers are honest and do try to claim their money back

against the seller,what a world we live in eh!!!

I do think some sellers are over paranoid about chargebacks as it is a frustrating, even traumatic experience when it happens. If a seller insists on express (which is very weird to England btw, most sellers only do it to France, Italy, and a few south american countries) I think you should point out all the positive feedback you have, indicating that you are definitely not a scammer. Either way, I understand why you wouldn't want to pay $40 shipping also, just explaining why the seller might have been insisting on it even if it was not a safer option for the actual record getting to you. Thanks.

  On 27/05/2012 at 16:17, Mr Smithy said:

I agree it's protecting the seller, but also about being fair to the buyer.

That's why it's nice to keep 3rd parties out of the frame.

Stuff does happen out there and hard and fast sometimes ridiculous rules from PP /EB don't help.

In countries where it happens, I tend to use registered as it seems to work and is not outrageous.

have you successfully defended yourself against a fraudulent chargeback from paypal by using the registered tracking number? I'm just wondering if it does work. Thanks.

No, I've never had to. I've either been lucky or the registered deters them. Can't say which.

PP are much faster on the trigger but if there is a sig I figure I'm covered later and could counter claim or get

the $ back, which I did do once when they crunched one.

Unfortunately when you purchase on Ebay - you enter a contract to agree to pay terms - postage is sometimes a scam .

Last week I purchased three cd s in UK - Buyer requested £6 post - I stated it would only cost around £2.75 even first class for that weight - He refused to budge despite three or four messages - Put it down to experience , and left him bad feedback - not something I am comfortable with .

Package came 2nd class post - cost £2.20 ...

  On 30/05/2012 at 15:04, glynthornhill said:

Unfortunately when you purchase on Ebay - you enter a contract to agree to pay terms - postage is sometimes a scam .

Last week I purchased three cd s in UK - Buyer requested £6 post - I stated it would only cost around £2.75 even first class for that weight - He refused to budge despite three or four messages - Put it down to experience , and left him bad feedback - not something I am comfortable with .

Package came 2nd class post - cost £2.20 ...

Good for you leaving the feedback though. I hate postage rip off merchants.

Not comfortable with it Pete , but yesterday a fellow customer contacted me - He has had dealings with this seller - charged him £12 post for 6 CD 's sent at a cost of £2.70 - When queried seller told him ' fu** ***

Nice he too will be leaving relevant feedback in due course . Sometimes it makes you wonder , but I feel negatives were justified .. Sure Ebay will advise him in due course when his D S R scores drop below the accepted level....

  On 30/05/2012 at 15:11, glynthornhill said:

Not comfortable with it Pete , but yesterday a fellow customer contacted me - He has had dealings with this seller - charged him £12 post for 6 CD 's sent at a cost of £2.70 - When queried seller told him ' fu** ***

Nice he too will be leaving relevant feedback in due course . Sometimes it makes you wonder , but I feel negatives were justified ..

Ebay will advise him in due course when his D S R scores drop below the accepted level....

you can (or at least used to be able to) do a paypal chargeback for excessive shipping cost

Bob only rules for Paypal chargeback on their website are unfortunately not covering excessive postage :

There are a few reasons why a buyer would request a chargeback:

• An unauthorised payment was made with the buyer's card
  
• The buyer didn't receive the item that was paid for
  
• There were errors in processing the transaction
  
• The item does not match its description
  

  On 30/05/2012 at 15:11, glynthornhill said:

Not comfortable with it Pete , but yesterday a fellow customer contacted me - He has had dealings with this seller - charged him £12 post for 6 CD 's sent at a cost of £2.70 - When queried seller told him ' fu** ***

Nice he too will be leaving relevant feedback in due course . Sometimes it makes you wonder , but I feel negatives were justified .. Sure Ebay will advise him in due course when his D S R scores drop below the accepted level....

Are you able to tell us who this seller is Glyn?

Will P M you the sellers I D - don 't want to start a war on here ....