The Sudden Abundance Of Re-Issues / Boots

[Guest Andy Kempster]

In most cases these days,you can't get most original records without paying an arm and a leg for, in some cases a wretched copy of some obscure single that only got played at venues for a short period of time.Take Ginger for instance,he bought the original copy on Shrine of Mr.Bryant's brilliant offering,I, if it were me, would lock it up in a vault, afraid of getting a scratch on such a rare record,thank God, that when the same sound came out on a British replica Shrine label I bought a copy for £10, because not only did I get a copy of this great track but also of walk on into my life on the flip.I never bring it with me when I'm out playing on the charity circuit preferring to play it when the mood takes me,because of the amature slueths who feel obliged to come up and tell you ,it's not original,(although this so called boot of the original is in itself becoming collectable fetching between £40 and £50 a copy,)Surely,you play the sound not the price, if you can't afford or live on a limited income and wish to assist charity events,why be disbarred from playing a sound because it is out of your price range.I say well done to those who assist the majority of jobbing DJ's,maybe, I'm in my downward spiral to my spot awaiting me in the sky, but when they play ,"I'm Stepping out of the Picture,"at my funeral Idon't think I'll ask if it was on the original label or not or how much said record was worth.Life's too short to worry after all why is the rarest record label so rare,because it was an illegal operation printing, pressing and passing off other soul label's stuff as it's own,and being forced to go out of the picture as a result.Ask yourself why,and you will prob get back the answer,money and supply and demand.Why is there a supply,to cover the demand.Why money? because usually we human's are greedy,those with want more,those without crave what the other man has,simple economics!enough said.

surely the northern soul 'scene' is and always has been about rare records, and based on this a case of if you dont have the original then dont play it

jeeeeeeeez, there are tens of thousands of records out there to play, use some imagination perlease

[Steve G]

do people buying the big ticket items also buy all the Kent etc CD's and the legal reissues?

I bet a lot of them don't. For many of them I think it's about looking the part and having the records that look like they are authentic. "It's 1977 again and I'm just like Mr Richard Searling with my box of rare originals (well they are look-alikes really but who cares?), on my way to DJ for a load of dancers"....

I've been at plenty of weekenders and watched as the speciailist CD purveyors sit cowered behind their boxes reading the paper or latest issue of Manifesto, waiting for some brave soul to venture up and start going through the CD's. I know most legit reissues are sold via the internet these days, but honestly to see the lack of CD sales at some venues it's painful.

[boba]

for what it's worth there are a zillion record labels rarer than shrine

[Mal C]

for what it's worth there are a zillion record labels rarer than shrine

well said, and not reiterated enough....

[Guest Andy Kempster]

and lest we forget most shrine releases are shite (i'll get my tin hat)

[Steve G]

I wouldn't say they were shite Andy but there are plenty of far better records out there.

[Mike Lofthouse]

Wow, do people seriously still have this type of discussion? I think I'm going to look in our shed for that piece of chewing gum I spat out 15 years ago and see if it still tastes any good.

Oh yes Roger - on a regular basis

[Guest lostboy23653]

OK.I hold my hand up ,I'm sorry and probably I wrote it wrong,what I mean't to say was that without bootlegs probably Shrine as a label wouldn't have come into being,the rareness of the label was caused by the fact that it's stock copies went up in flames during the Martin Luther riots, and yes,Raymona was advised by Richard Singleton,not to go down the bootleg route and rip off Berry's material,but he susequently that is Berry, (but don't quote me on this), provided monies to them to start a record label which did not prove successful and went out of buisness in 1967.most other stuff found from the Shrine, on master tapes from the label came out on Kent,Horace's Ace etc.but to purest this is not original Shrine(but it is in all but name,)Subsequently, Mr Singleton returned to Motown.The real point is this Vinyl and that is what I was meaning to say,wears out, each record has a shelf life,yes! it is not CD or digital in nature,wether you use the original,and I use records that are in some cases over 45 years old, I use boots or reissues to preserve my collection,that was my point.the sound is still the same. I don't play for profit, so each time I play a record I risk losing it's value and as I have said to replace origin record's cost an arm and a leg,is it better to replace a £10 record or try to find £1500 to replace something that in most cases can't be found anyway,and what about the next generation,if we don't preseve the heritage, so that when we are gone this music is lost ,it won't matter who has what or what it costs in fifty more years time.The music must be preserved because without it there is no scene,if that means on boots or reissues so be it

[Guest Andy Kempster]

I wouldn't say they were shite Andy but there are plenty of far better records out there.

fair point steve, it just amuses me that shrine gets such a fanatical following when its only the rarity and not the qualtiy that makes it that way

see you soon mate

[Peter99]

OK.I hold my hand up ,I'm sorry and probably I wrote it wrong,what I mean't to say was that without bootlegs probably Shrine as a label wouldn't have come into being,the rareness of the label was caused by the fact that it's stock copies went up in flames during the Martin Luther riots, and yes,Raymona was advised by Richard Singleton,not to go down the bootleg route and rip off Berry's material,but he susequently that is Berry, (but don't quote me on this), provided monies to them to start a record label which did not prove successful and went out of buisness in 1967.most other stuff found from the Shrine, on master tapes from the label came out on Kent,Horace's Ace etc.but to purest this is not original Shrine(but it is in all but name,)Subsequently, Mr Singleton returned to Motown.The real point is this Vinyl and that is what I was meaning to say,wears out, each record has a shelf life,yes! it is not CD or digital in nature,wether you use the original,and I use records that are in some cases over 45 years old, I use boots or reissues to preserve my collection,that was my point.the sound is still the same. I don't play for profit, so each time I play a record I risk losing it's value and as I have said to replace origin record's cost an arm and a leg,is it better to replace a £10 record or try to find £1500 to replace something that in most cases can't be found anyway,and what about the next generation,if we don't preseve the heritage, so that when we are gone this music is lost ,it won't matter who has what or what it costs in fifty more years time.The music must be preserved because without it there is no scene,if that means on boots or reissues so be it

So you were actually saying that you have a decent collection but prefer to preserve them by not playing them out and using "copies" instead.

[Guest lostboy23653]

And before you come back at me readEddie rather than Richard

[Guest lostboy23653]

Yes,I have a good collection of original stuff,that's my point,why should I be limited because of my wish to preserve what I've got,to having to play my collection into the ground for semantic reasons.I went to a play at an Alldayer recently and came away minus a copy of, Pigtails by the Impacts which was found to be broken,one came up for sale on a site on Ebay and I bid to the highest I could afford,and was just pipped at the last second out of it.To me that record was priceless,now until I get a replacement I have a hole in my collection,but had I a copy or a reissue then it would not matter.Re-issues and boots serve a purpose.So they make people money,if they save me money and heartache and pain trying to replace an original,if it is a properly licenced copy all the better.

[kevinsoulman]

I can't think of a single lookalike legit reissue. Lookalikes are usually bootlegs designed to trick somebody. Who does lookalike reissues?

AM I MISTAKEN BUT WAS NOT MOSES SMITH A LEGIT REISSUE WITH TRY MY LOVE ON THE FLIP ON DIONN

KEV

[Roger Williams]

Oh yes Roger - on a regular basis

Heaven forbid anyone should simply buy and play their music in the format of their own choice without being more concerned about what everyone else is or isn't doing, eh Mike?

Probably too simple a concept to grasp.

[Guest lostboy23653]

How far do you have to go to have the original record, just because an artist appears on a track, this track may have been done before that so called original was released or is the track only recognised because it is by the artist who you associate with it.eg.Smokie Robinson version of," Can you Love a Poor Boy," which appears on one of his early LP's.orGil Benal's version on RCA..both are great tracks both of which I have in my collection,or Robert Knight's version of," Everlasting Love," or Carl Carlton's version which was released in America earlier.,or is a UK Stateside release of a Tamla hit a reissue because it came out on Gordy or VIP in America. if that's the case then why do you pay a premium for most early UK releases or things such as,"He's All I Got," which have a number of issue numbers denoting rarity.And is the cheaper version ripping the owner off or the punter hearing a later version of the original.

[boba]

How far do you have to go to have the original record, just because an artist appears on a track, this track may have been done before that so called original was released or is the track only recognised because it is by the artist who you associate with it.eg.Smokie Robinson version of," Can you Love a Poor Boy," which appears on one of his early LP's.orGil Benal's version on RCA..both are great tracks both of which I have in my collection,or Robert Knight's version of," Everlasting Love," or Carl Carlton's version which was released in America earlier.,or is a UK Stateside release of a Tamla hit a reissue because it came out on Gordy or VIP in America. if that's the case then why do you pay a premium for most early UK releases or things such as,"He's All I Got," which have a number of issue numbers denoting rarity.And is the cheaper version ripping the owner off or the punter hearing a later version of the original.

You are not going to win this argument on here. There isn't going to be a rational discussion of your different points. The reason some people posted annoyed responses is that this exact thread has been done here like a dozen times. If I were you, I would do what you believe and move on to participating in other threads. Welcome to soul source.

[Guest giant]

surely the northern soul 'scene' is and always has been about rare records, and based on this a case of if you dont have the original then dont play it

jeeeeeeeez, there are tens of thousands of records out there to play, use some imagination perlease

agree 100% Andy ' well said

[Guest giant]

legal reissue's and boots' i hate them all ' originals only for me cheap or rare and expensive.

[Guest Brett F]

How far do you have to go to have the original record, just because an artist appears on a track, this track may have been done before that so called original was released or is the track only recognised because it is by the artist who you associate with it.eg.Smokie Robinson version of," Can you Love a Poor Boy," which appears on one of his early LP's.orGil Benal's version on RCA..both are great tracks both of which I have in my collection,or Robert Knight's version of," Everlasting Love," or Carl Carlton's version which was released in America earlier.,or is a UK Stateside release of a Tamla hit a reissue because it came out on Gordy or VIP in America. if that's the case then why do you pay a premium for most early UK releases or things such as,"He's All I Got," which have a number of issue numbers denoting rarity.And is the cheaper version ripping the owner off or the punter hearing a later version of the original.

Hi, i'm confused by your post, surely the US version and it's UK copy are both legitimate (i say this in regards to say a lot of 60's UK releases of 'semi' popular soul issues, Stateside etc, that were legitimately released via groups like Motown or the major labels and not some shady third party ) ) I don't understand your conclusion, why would the owner be ripped off ?. As for your earlier posts about conservation of your originals, well why not invest in a decent tape recorder, CD recorder hi fi separate etc then you have access to your own collection, but saying that a decent deck, cartridge set up should see the record lasting a lifetime. Believe me i'm not picking holes in your post (far from it ) but Smokey's version and Gil Bernal are both records in their own right, just a matter of personal taste to which is deemed better, i can't help feeling you seem slightly at some loss over what constitutes an original record....

Ps note: Robert Knight ' Everlasting Love' came out on Rising Sons US copy 1967, Monument UK 1967, Carl Carlton was released in 1974, so Knights was the earlier version not later as you stated.

regards Brett F.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Brett F

[Chalky]

You are not going to win this argument on here. There isn't going to be a rational discussion of your different points. The reason some people posted annoyed responses is that this exact thread has been done here like a dozen times. If I were you, I would do what you believe and move on to participating in other threads. Welcome to soul source.

He doesn't seem to make sense either Bob and a few of his comments are inaccurate and the Shrine ones total nonsense.

Like you say this topic has been done to death so if you are going to comment or attempt debate then you have to put up a convincing arguement with facts that are accurate.

[Dave Pinch]

i thought it was me.. i cant seem to make out what the lost boy fella is trying to say. only its making what is confusing to some even more confusing

[Guest allnightandy]

In most cases these days,you can't get most original records without paying an arm and a leg for, in some cases a wretched copy of some obscure single that only got played at venues for a short period of time.Take Ginger for instance,he bought the original copy on Shrine of Mr.Bryant's brilliant offering,I, if it were me, would lock it up in a vault, afraid of getting a scratch on such a rare record,thank God, that when the same sound came out on a British replica Shrine label I bought a copy for £10, because not only did I get a copy of this great track but also of walk on into my life on the flip.I never bring it with me when I'm out playing on the charity circuit preferring to play it when the mood takes me,because of the amature slueths who feel obliged to come up and tell you ,it's not original,(although this so called boot of the original is in itself becoming collectable fetching between £40 and £50 a copy,)Surely,you play the sound not the price, if you can't afford or live on a limited income and wish to assist charity events,why be disbarred from playing a sound because it is out of your price range.I say well done to those who assist the majority of jobbing DJ's,maybe, I'm in my downward spiral to my spot awaiting me in the sky, but when they play ,"I'm Stepping out of the Picture,"at my funeral Idon't think I'll ask if it was on the original label or not or how much said record was worth.Life's too short to worry after all why is the rarest record label so rare,because it was an illegal operation printing, pressing and passing off other soul label's stuff as it's own,and being forced to go out of the picture as a result.Ask yourself why,and you will prob get back the answer,money and supply and demand.Why is there a supply,to cover the demand.Why money? because usually we human's are greedy,those with want more,those without crave what the other man has,simple economics!enough said.

Buy it now £14.99 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NORTHERN-SOUL-J-D-BRYANT-WONT-COMING-BACK-SHRINE-/360427500904?pt=UK_Records&hash=item53eb273568

[jocko]

legal reissue's and boots' i hate them all ' originals only for me cheap or rare and expensive.

Yes very good, living proof that as many people arguing for as against dont actually get "it" either these days.

Nurrssee pass my meds.

[jocko]

Heaven forbid anyone should simply buy and play their music in the format of their own choice without being more concerned about what everyone else is or isn't doing, eh Mike?

Probably too simple a concept to grasp.

I was going to come round to that Scouse house you live in and take the wooden spoon away from you but latest posts have reduced my will to live and can't believe I read this thread again. Off to ogle album covers and 45 labels again, preserve my relative sanity.

Dig in and kick Mr W, they all deserve it for getting involved in this one, again.. :D

[jocko]

He doesn't seem to make sense either Bob and a few of his comments are inaccurate and the Shrine ones total nonsense.

Like you say this topic has been done to death so if you are going to comment or attempt debate then you have to put up a convincing arguement with facts that are accurate.

And sparkling lack of intro and only posting on this makes me smell wind up. Get your mods hat on and twist his gonads to get an iD please.

My suspicions are deepened by the fact It is too early in day for care in the community to have access to their computers surely.......

[boba]

He doesn't seem to make sense either Bob and a few of his comments are inaccurate and the Shrine ones total nonsense.

Like you say this topic has been done to death so if you are going to comment or attempt debate then you have to put up a convincing arguement with facts that are accurate.

Whether he makes sense or not there still isn't going to be a rational discussion on this topic. In the US it would be like arguing gun control or abortion, there isn't going to be a resolution. Either way we agree this topic is not useful.

[jocko]

Whether he makes sense or not there still isn't going to be a rational discussion on this topic. In the US it would be like arguing gun control or abortion, there isn't going to be a resolution. Either way we agree this topic is not useful.

But at least you would shoot each other over the argument, adds a little spice to getting involved.....

[boba]

But at least you would shoot each other over the argument, adds a little spice to getting involved.....

no, only one side would have the gun. i guess that could put the odds in that person's favor though.

[TOAD]

And sparkling lack of intro and only posting on this makes me smell wind up. Get your mods hat on and twist his gonads to get an iD please.

My suspicions are deepened by the fact It is too early in day for care in the community to have access to their computers surely.......

:-)

[Denbo]

I was going to come round to that Scouse house you live in and take the wooden spoon away from you but latest posts have reduced my will to live and can't believe I read this thread again. Off to ogle album covers and 45 labels again, preserve my relative sanity.

Dig in and kick Mr W, they all deserve it for getting involved in this one, again.. :D

Is Roger a fellow Scouser?

[Roger Williams]

Is Roger a fellow Scouser?

No mate I'm from Kendal originally but I married a Scouser, lived in Fazakerley for 3 years and then moved to the Wirral in 1996 where I've lived ever since. These Scotch people have no sense of geography, they probably call everyone south of Watford a cockney.

Roger

[jocko]

Is Roger a fellow Scouser?

As you will see from his response he is in denial!

Just ask to see his pictures from back in the day with tache, some will say its complete proof!

[Denbo]

As you will see from his response he is in denial!

Just ask to see his pictures from back in the day with tache, some will say its complete proof!

Curly black hair as well? :lol:

[Roger Williams]

As you will see from his response he is in denial!

Just ask to see his pictures from back in the day with tache, some will say its complete proof!

Jocko, calm down calm down. Oh dear, I must be one after all.

[Guest lostboy23653]

Ok,Originals are best,re-issues are the sporn of the devil.Opinions are for individuals,tastes in music come and go, will our music be here after our generation who knows?Will this arguement go on probably yes,am I bothered that's a matter for debate for other people to judge,my opinion is this i am too old and weary to get into the pros and cons of the subject,If I were to destroy my record collection after the next time I play at a venue,would the world be a better or worse place without them,wether original or not.My life and the music I play or like to hear should not be governed by the price or it's rating as to wether it is original or not as too the arguement what is or isn't Rare Soul(Iwould say Northern Soul but I've never liked that term anyway,)Is a lost original worth more if it's never found or is a found boot that only sold few copies worthless,is a demo copy by Sandy Mason,"I Didn't Have the Heart to Tell Him No," worth saving,wether it's on the original label or on Epic,I don't know,is it rare, to me as an individual it's priceless but then what do I know .I'm at a loss

[Godzilla]

...it is too early in day for care in the community to have access to their computers surely.......

...yet the very presence of your post provides evidence to the contrary...

[Swaggy]

pressings boot and reissues will never catch on yours simon @ selectadisc hehe

[boba]

Ok,Originals are best,re-issues are the sporn of the devil.Opinions are for individuals,tastes in music come and go, will our music be here after our generation who knows?Will this arguement go on probably yes,am I bothered that's a matter for debate for other people to judge,my opinion is this i am too old and weary to get into the pros and cons of the subject,If I were to destroy my record collection after the next time I play at a venue,would the world be a better or worse place without them,wether original or not.My life and the music I play or like to hear should not be governed by the price or it's rating as to wether it is original or not as too the arguement what is or isn't Rare Soul(Iwould say Northern Soul but I've never liked that term anyway,)Is a lost original worth more if it's never found or is a found boot that only sold few copies worthless,is a demo copy by Sandy Mason,"I Didn't Have the Heart to Tell Him No," worth saving,wether it's on the original label or on Epic,I don't know,is it rare, to me as an individual it's priceless but then what do I know .I'm at a loss

you could have just stopped posting in this thread and it effectively would be the same thing

[Supercorsa]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, even now whilst typing I still don't know why I am?

Just recently was record store day, and the collector in me wanted to purchase the Fame box set by Kent/Ace. So along I went to Soul Brothers Record Shop in Putney. Upon the counter was a small box of 7" vinyl, so as you do you have to look through them. In the box were various Kent, Outta Sight, Hit & Run, Soul Bros and assorted recent vinyl releases. Now amongst these were some great tunes, some of which I may already have on old boots, some on cds, some I already own on originals, but and this is a big but! None of them got me as excited as the original 7" Sam Dees on Atlantic on the shelf behind the counter. Whilst looking through them I thought to myself, I wish this was one of the sales boxes from the 100 Club instead. I realised that I would have much preferred to be looking through a box of records costing between £20 to £200+ (of which I can only afford the lower end of the scale), than to a box of, how can I put this, manufactored/tailored releases for the (northern) soul scene and in some ways felt disappointed. One particular record that stuck in my mind was Two Plus Two on a Velgo lookalike. When I first started on this site about 8 years ago, I saw an original of this listed on Ebay and mentioned it on here. I'd never heard the track before, having only recently started to buy records again after some 15 years or so. The record went for over 2 grand, I was seriously out bid, let alone out of touch. That record for me is for when I win the lottery and as such I won't buy the reissue, whether it's legitimate or not. That is my choice and it has nothing to do with whatever one person thinks is right or wrong, it is solely my decision.

Now just recently I've been trying to obtain all the Kent 7" releases (Town/Select/Gusto Etc), so I'm not against buying them, some of the previously unreleased stuff in my opinion would have to be classed as originals. In some respects this may make me appear to be somewhat hypocritical, but I can live with that.

There are arguements for both sides as to what should or shouldn't be played out, whether that be originals or reissues/boots. This debate will always resurface (unfortunately) , but getting back to what I think the original topic starter was saying or attempting to say, is there a market for so many re-issues? I know the Kent Select are limited to about 500, but what about the others? If there are so many dancers as opposed to collectors/dj's, how many records are sold from each run? Do some labels persist in releasing non-sellers just to keep their name in the spotlight? A bit like Tesco opening up 6 stores say in 1 square mile, like flooding the market and ensuring punters return time after time, regardless if they actually need the stuff?!

As for who play's what and where, I really couldn't give a monkey's anymore. I do what I want, I go where I want, when I want (or in most cases can)! I'm at an age now where I have my own set of priorites/rules, but respect the fact that others views are different. It's called freedom of choice and I choose the right to exercise mine.

[jocko]

...yet the very presence of your post provides evidence to the contrary...

Fair point on that, oh prickly one.......

[jocko]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, even now whilst typing I still don't know why I am?

Just recently was record store day, and the collector in me wanted to purchase the Fame box set by Kent/Ace. So along I went to Soul Brothers Record Shop in Putney. Upon the counter was a small box of 7" vinyl, so as you do you have to look through them. In the box were various Kent, Outta Sight, Hit & Run, Soul Bros and assorted recent vinyl releases. Now amongst these were some great tunes, some of which I may already have on old boots, some on cds, some I already own on originals, but and this is a big but! None of them got me as excited as the original 7" Sam Dees on Atlantic on the shelf behind the counter. Whilst looking through them I thought to myself, I wish this was one of the sales boxes from the 100 Club instead. I realised that I would have much preferred to be looking through a box of records costing between £20 to £200+ (of which I can only afford the lower end of the scale), than to a box of, how can I put this, manufactored/tailored releases for the (northern) soul scene and in some ways felt disappointed. One particular record that stuck in my mind was Two Plus Two on a Velgo lookalike. When I first started on this site about 8 years ago, I saw an original of this listed on Ebay and mentioned it on here. I'd never heard the track before, having only recently started to buy records again after some 15 years or so. The record went for over 2 grand, I was seriously out bid, let alone out of touch. That record for me is for when I win the lottery and as such I won't buy the reissue, whether it's legitimate or not. That is my choice and it has nothing to do with whatever one person thinks is right or wrong, it is solely my decision.

Now just recently I've been trying to obtain all the Kent 7" releases (Town/Select/Gusto Etc), so I'm not against buying them, some of the previously unreleased stuff in my opinion would have to be classed as originals. In some respects this may make me appear to be somewhat hypocritical, but I can live with that.

There are arguements for both sides as to what should or shouldn't be played out, whether that be originals or reissues/boots. This debate will always resurface (unfortunately) , but getting back to what I think the original topic starter was saying or attempting to say, is there a market for so many re-issues? I know the Kent Select are limited to about 500, but what about the others? If there are so many dancers as opposed to collectors/dj's, how many records are sold from each run? Do some labels persist in releasing non-sellers just to keep their name in the spotlight? A bit like Tesco opening up 6 stores say in 1 square mile, like flooding the market and ensuring punters return time after time, regardless if they actually need the stuff?!

As for who play's what and where, I really couldn't give a monkey's anymore. I do what I want, I go where I want, when I want (or in most cases can)! I'm at an age now where I have my own set of priorites/rules, but respect the fact that others views are different. It's called freedom of choice and I choose the right to exercise mine.

I think I love you.

[Swaggy]

BRING BACK SOUL GALORE & OOTP QUALITY

[Supercorsa]

I think I love you.

[Dave Pinch]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, even now whilst typing I still don't know why I am?

Just recently was record store day, and the collector in me wanted to purchase the Fame box set by Kent/Ace. So along I went to Soul Brothers Record Shop in Putney. Upon the counter was a small box of 7" vinyl, so as you do you have to look through them. In the box were various Kent, Outta Sight, Hit & Run, Soul Bros and assorted recent vinyl releases. Now amongst these were some great tunes, some of which I may already have on old boots, some on cds, some I already own on originals, but and this is a big but! None of them got me as excited as the original 7" Sam Dees on Atlantic on the shelf behind the counter. Whilst looking through them I thought to myself, I wish this was one of the sales boxes from the 100 Club instead. I realised that I would have much preferred to be looking through a box of records costing between £20 to £200+ (of which I can only afford the lower end of the scale), than to a box of, how can I put this, manufactored/tailored releases for the (northern) soul scene and in some ways felt disappointed. One particular record that stuck in my mind was Two Plus Two on a Velgo lookalike. When I first started on this site about 8 years ago, I saw an original of this listed on Ebay and mentioned it on here. I'd never heard the track before, having only recently started to buy records again after some 15 years or so. The record went for over 2 grand, I was seriously out bid, let alone out of touch. That record for me is for when I win the lottery and as such I won't buy the reissue, whether it's legitimate or not. That is my choice and it has nothing to do with whatever one person thinks is right or wrong, it is solely my decision.

Now just recently I've been trying to obtain all the Kent 7" releases (Town/Select/Gusto Etc), so I'm not against buying them, some of the previously unreleased stuff in my opinion would have to be classed as originals. In some respects this may make me appear to be somewhat hypocritical, but I can live with that.

There are arguements for both sides as to what should or shouldn't be played out, whether that be originals or reissues/boots. This debate will always resurface (unfortunately) , but getting back to what I think the original topic starter was saying or attempting to say, is there a market for so many re-issues? I know the Kent Select are limited to about 500, but what about the others? If there are so many dancers as opposed to collectors/dj's, how many records are sold from each run? Do some labels persist in releasing non-sellers just to keep their name in the spotlight? A bit like Tesco opening up 6 stores say in 1 square mile, like flooding the market and ensuring punters return time after time, regardless if they actually need the stuff?!

As for who play's what and where, I really couldn't give a monkey's anymore. I do what I want, I go where I want, when I want (or in most cases can)! I'm at an age now where I have my own set of priorites/rules, but respect the fact that others views are different. It's called freedom of choice and I choose the right to exercise mine.

and thats how it should be.. for you,, lost boy and anyone who appreciates rare/ northern/ soul 45s.. nothing wrong buying reissues for home consumption

[Mark Bicknell]

BRING BACK SOUL GALORE & OOTP QUALITY

No bring back hanging, how dare people buy bootlegs, keep the faith the scene deserves it lol

[Chalky]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, even now whilst typing I still don't know why I am?

Just recently was record store day, and the collector in me wanted to purchase the Fame box set by Kent/Ace. So along I went to Soul Brothers Record Shop in Putney. Upon the counter was a small box of 7" vinyl, so as you do you have to look through them. In the box were various Kent, Outta Sight, Hit & Run, Soul Bros and assorted recent vinyl releases. Now amongst these were some great tunes, some of which I may already have on old boots, some on cds, some I already own on originals, but and this is a big but! None of them got me as excited as the original 7" Sam Dees on Atlantic on the shelf behind the counter. Whilst looking through them I thought to myself, I wish this was one of the sales boxes from the 100 Club instead. I realised that I would have much preferred to be looking through a box of records costing between £20 to £200+ (of which I can only afford the lower end of the scale), than to a box of, how can I put this, manufactored/tailored releases for the (northern) soul scene and in some ways felt disappointed. One particular record that stuck in my mind was Two Plus Two on a Velgo lookalike. When I first started on this site about 8 years ago, I saw an original of this listed on Ebay and mentioned it on here. I'd never heard the track before, having only recently started to buy records again after some 15 years or so. The record went for over 2 grand, I was seriously out bid, let alone out of touch. That record for me is for when I win the lottery and as such I won't buy the reissue, whether it's legitimate or not. That is my choice and it has nothing to do with whatever one person thinks is right or wrong, it is solely my decision.

Now just recently I've been trying to obtain all the Kent 7" releases (Town/Select/Gusto Etc), so I'm not against buying them, some of the previously unreleased stuff in my opinion would have to be classed as originals. In some respects this may make me appear to be somewhat hypocritical, but I can live with that.

There are arguements for both sides as to what should or shouldn't be played out, whether that be originals or reissues/boots. This debate will always resurface (unfortunately) , but getting back to what I think the original topic starter was saying or attempting to say, is there a market for so many re-issues? I know the Kent Select are limited to about 500, but what about the others? If there are so many dancers as opposed to collectors/dj's, how many records are sold from each run? Do some labels persist in releasing non-sellers just to keep their name in the spotlight? A bit like Tesco opening up 6 stores say in 1 square mile, like flooding the market and ensuring punters return time after time, regardless if they actually need the stuff?!

As for who play's what and where, I really couldn't give a monkey's anymore. I do what I want, I go where I want, when I want (or in most cases can)! I'm at an age now where I have my own set of priorites/rules, but respect the fact that others views are different. It's called freedom of choice and I choose the right to exercise mine.

Best post on this topic.

[boba]

but getting back to what I think the original topic starter was saying or attempting to say, is there a market for so many re-issues?

This is a critical point imo. This message board is so elite-DJ and centered around a specific scene that people can't understand who would buy a 45 reissue. In reality the market for these is not really the northern soul attendee or elite northern soul DJ market. There are hundreds of people who buy records, usually in multiple genres... the type of people who shop at dusty groove, for example, and buy all sorts of LP reissues, CDs, etc. Some of these people even DJ. For example, there might be a DJ night at a bar where the DJs play a mix of mod, soul, reggae, played off a mix of originals and reissues, LPs and 45s. It's good that good music is made available to these people and original artists get recognized / paid. Records have an audience beyond a tiny group of elite and wannabe elite DJs on the UK northern soul scene.

[Dave Pinch]

This is a critical point imo. This message board is so elite-DJ and centered around a specific scene that people can't understand who would buy a 45 reissue. In reality the market for these is not really the northern soul attendee or elite northern soul DJ market. There are hundreds of people who buy records, usually in multiple genres... the type of people who shop at dusty groove, for example, and buy all sorts of LP reissues, CDs, etc. Some of these people even DJ. For example, there might be a DJ night at a bar where the DJs play a mix of mod, soul, reggae, played off a mix of originals and reissues, LPs and 45s. It's good that good music is made available to these people and original artists get recognized / paid. Records have an audience beyond a tiny group of elite and wannabe elite DJs on the UK northern soul scene.

in the grand scheme of things youre right bob but you got to appreciate how many people on this island like rare/northern /soul music and how passionate they are some much more than others. if everyone came on here and stood up to be counted the population is greater than chicago

[boba]

in the grand scheme of things youre right bob but you got to appreciate how many people on this island like rare/northern /soul music and how passionate they are some much more than others. if everyone came on here and stood up to be counted the population is greater than chicago

the people you are talking about who are passionate about the scene highlights my point about them not being able to even imagine any other type of record buyer. There are even lots of people in the UK who like "soul music" in a similar way to how they like jazz, rock, funk, etc. People who buy reissues of Al Green LPs. Northern Soul DJs are a very tiny percentage of buyers in the grand scheme of things.

[jocko]

the people you are talking about who are passionate about the scene highlights my point about them not being able to even imagine any other type of record buyer. There are even lots of people in the UK who like "soul music" in a similar way to how they like jazz, rock, funk, etc. People who buy reissues of Al Green LPs. Northern Soul DJs are a very tiny percentage of buyers in the grand scheme of things.

There are actually lots of people on the "scene" like that too, they just exist in their own bubble away from here. On line is not really an overall representation of the complete Northern world (aka some strange planet) or wider soul related record buying world. I suspect forums always attact the real enthusiasts (aka the geeks) and the rest just quietly (aka sneakily) get on with it.

You need to come over on holiday and spend a month in the East Midlands to really get a flavour of the wider world Bob, you could even guest on Dean Andersons radio show, sure he would be more than happy for you relay your thoughts on the UK Northern world.