Poets Wrapped Around Your Finger - J2

[Dave Moore]

Was recently talking at length with Val Shively when this 45 came up. I can't remember why but I always presumed this was a Philly group and not the same group as on Symbol ("She Blew A Good Thing"). I don't know why I presumed that but something in the back of my mind must have triggered it.

The J-2 45 was produced by Juggy Jones (J-2?), so it all ties in with The Poets on Symbol (owned by Sue), but I was wondering if anyone had any definitive info?

Regards,

Dave

[Garethx]

J-2 was a short-lived successor of Sue. There is an extremely rare Baby Washington 45 on the label, a version of Bob Dylan's Like A Rolling Stone.

[Bigsoulman]

I have Jimmy Holiday Shield All Around on this label

Lenny

[Garethx]

That's KT surely?

[Quinvy]

Wonder why it's so bloody rare then?

[Bigsoulman]

That's KT surely?

Yes your right Gareth it is KT, just dug it out, having a senior moment

Lenny

[George G]

Here's another J2 record. Some copies have the artist as Pebble Episode, which is the correct name. Vincent Oddo was the engineer as you can see from the fine print. "Tripsey" is an instrumental.

https://www.popsike.com/rare-VINCENT-ODDO-psych-garage-45-J2-label/110741623212.html

[Dave Pinch]

Wonder why it's so bloody rare then?

they just havent been found yet phil

[Prophonics 2029]

Is Baby Washington's Its Been A Long Time Comming on?.

[boba]

It seems unlikely that juggy would produce 2 "Poets". Maybe it was just a tiny vanity sublabel and sue didn't press that much?

[Guest JIM BARRY]

drove from manchester to carlisle to pick up a copy of poets, as well as herman lewiss.....happy days

[boba]

one question -- is the J2 record before or after the symbol records? It sounds more sophisticated and later to me. It also would help explain the smaller run as the label was winding down.

[Prophonics 2029]

Symbol was 1961 and could be before that back into the 50th Boba.

[boba]

Symbol was 1961 and could be before that back into the 50th Boba.

I don't understand, or maybe my question wasn't clear (sorry). The poets on symbol all came out in 1966. I think the J2 record is after the symbol records. Also, it fills in the two year gap between their symbol and veep records.

[Prophonics 2029]

Sorry thought you were talking about symbol in general.

[Dave Moore]

I'm beginning to be convinced now that it's the same group. Just strange how I thought it a Philly group for all these years. You live and learn eh? Thanks for all the input guys.

Regards,

Dave

[Robbk]

They were the same group. They were signed to Juggy Murray's Symbol Records. When Sue re-organised (1968-69, J-2 was formed). The Poets cut must be from 1968. It IS later than their Symbol releases.

"Juggy" Jones -AKA "Jughead Jones" -was Archie's pal, Jughead, from the Archie Series comic books. He was also Donald Duck's neighbour in Walt Disney's Donald Duck comic books.

[Garethx]

The master number on the Baby Washington 45 (the first on the label) seems to indicate a 1967 release, as does The Poets record.

[Chalky]

a scan of the Poets from Popsike....

[Theothertosspot]

Can anyone recall when they first heard it being played out, I first heard it when Sam played it around 94.

[Trev Thomas]

Can anyone recall when they first heard it being played out, I first heard it when Sam played it around 94.

first time i heard it was bradford nighter 1991 carl fortnum spun it

[Jumpinjoan]

first time i heard it was bradford nighter 1991 carl fortnum spun it

Was just going to say I first heard Carl play it

[NEV]

first time i heard it was bradford nighter 1991 carl fortnum spun it

Have you got a book on this kind of info Trev ....always on point with info like this mate

I cant even remember 1991 ,let alone when someone first played a bloody record

P.s Get a move on Joan ...will see you at Kev J's for the footy

Edited May 5, 2012 by NEV

[Jumpinjoan]

Have you got a book on this kind of info Trev ....always on point with info like this mate

I cant even remember 1991 ,let alone when someone first played a bloody record

P.s Get a move on Joan ...will see you at Kev J's for the footy

Yep, great info! I love hearing when people first heard records, all part of it for me.

I'm on it Nev, see you in a bit

[Dave Moore]

I didn't hear this until around 93/4. It then took me another 10 years to get one. In my top 10 favourite records.

Regards

Dave

[Chalky]

I can't remember breakfast somedays but yeah I'd say early 90's Bradford QH and other such nighters. Could have been before but can't remember it.

[Chalky]

one question -- is the J2 record before or after the symbol records? It sounds more sophisticated and later to me. It also would help explain the smaller run as the label was winding down.

I've read on all music that it was the Poets first release and it preceded the symbol release but like you it sounds later to me.

[Ted Massey]

John Anderson had the first copies and sold them at 200 each not sure how many 6 at most, i first ahd it on a tape of Mick smith possible 1990 his wasnt from John.

[Dave Moore]

John Anderson had the first copies and sold them at 200 each not sure how many 6 at most, i first ahd it on a tape of Mick smith possible 1990 his wasnt from John.

John's came from VS. It's part of an extensive interview I conducted with him last week. Some great stories from Val's escapades over the years. He was telling me that they used to put one 'good' 45 at the end of each pile and box em up with 100 shyte 45s between the two ends. Took him a while to work out that most UK collectors were after the shyte. He He! Another one that John proffed from Val was Damon Fox. It'll all be in the new book in September hopefully.

Best,

Dave

[Robbk]

1967 sounds right. Why would anyone doubt that These Poets are the same as the Symbol group? Ronnie Lewis was their writer on both labels, AND both labels belonged to Juggy Murray.

[Dave Moore]

1967 sounds right. Why would anyone doubt that These Poets are the same as the Symbol group? Ronnie Lewis was their writer on both labels, AND both labels belonged to Juggy Murray.

Because Robb, not everyone is born with 'the knowledge'. It takes some of us a while to catch up. :D

Regards,

Dave

[Chalky]

1967 sounds right. Why would anyone doubt that These Poets are the same as the Symbol group? Ronnie Lewis was their writer on both labels, AND both labels belonged to Juggy Murray.

I read Juggy sold his masters/rights to Sue to UA in 1968. Would Symbol, J-2 be part of the deal?

[neckender]

John Anderson had the first copies and sold them at 200 each not sure how many 6 at most, i first ahd it on a tape of Mick smith possible 1990 his wasnt from John.

yes, ted, john anderson had 5 copies. They came via val shively after he bought out a local record shop (butterball, the philly dj and record store owner) I got the first copy for £200 and the other 4 copies went to john's other favoured collectors. I went over to Butterball's record store a year later and checked out the basement where the J2s had been stored. Either Val didn't take everything or more stock had been put down there, but alas there were no more poets.

[Ted Massey]

yes, ted, john anderson had 5 copies. They came via val shively after he bought out a local record shop (butterball, the philly dj and record store owner) I got the first copy for £200 and the other 4 copies went to john's other favoured collectors. I went over to Butterball's record store a year later and checked out the basement where the J2s had been stored. Either Val didn't take everything or more stock had been put down there, but alas there were no more poets.

Hi Mark thanks for the confirmation memory hasnt gone yet lol. Mick smith got one directly of Val later on

[Guest turntableterra]

Was recently talking at length with Val Shively when this 45 came up. I can't remember why but I always presumed this was a Philly group and not the same group as on Symbol ("She Blew A Good Thing"). I don't know why I presumed that but something in the back of my mind must have triggered it.

The J-2 45 was produced by Juggy Jones (J-2?), so it all ties in with The Poets on Symbol (owned by Sue), but I was wondering if anyone had any definitive info?

Regards,

Dave

hi dave, from info in my little black book, it had the j-2 listed in a discography as below, from soul harmony, but no date was given for this release. this is what i have written down

ronnie lewis,paul fulton, mel bradford and johnny james

j-2 1302 wrapped around your finger

symbol 214 she blew a good thing 1966

216 so young and so innocent 1966

219 i`m particular 1966

veep 1286 the hustler 1968 (i had this noted as being the next number up from little anthony and IMPS "yesterday has gone"

the other "poets" became the Main Ingredient, but had one on Red bird,

from soul harmony tom klien

[Guest turntableterra]

i first SAW was in carlisle, prob the one the above bought. and was offered this at a scarboro alnighter in 2000, sadly 1700 quid was out of range so i settled for a mint holly st james for 100 quid

[boba]

Was recently talking at length with Val Shively when this 45 came up. I can't remember why but I always presumed this was a Philly group and not the same group as on Symbol ("She Blew A Good Thing"). I don't know why I presumed that but something in the back of my mind must have triggered it.

The J-2 45 was produced by Juggy Jones (J-2?), so it all ties in with The Poets on Symbol (owned by Sue), but I was wondering if anyone had any definitive info?

Regards,

Dave

hi dave, from info in my little black book, it had the j-2 listed in a discography as below, from soul harmony, but no date was given for this release. this is what i have written down

ronnie lewis,paul fulton, mel bradford and johnny james

j-2 1302 wrapped around your finger

symbol 214 she blew a good thing 1966

216 so young and so innocent 1966

219 i`m particular 1966

veep 1286 the hustler 1968 (i had this noted as being the next number up from little anthony and IMPS "yesterday has gone"

the other "poets" became the Main Ingredient, but had one on Red bird,

from soul harmony tom klien

the new volume will have the J2 record after the symbol records

[Sunnysoul]

Was recently talking at length with Val Shively when this 45 came up. I can't remember why but I always presumed this was a Philly group and not the same group as on Symbol ("She Blew A Good Thing"). I don't know why I presumed that but something in the back of my mind must have triggered it.

The J-2 45 was produced by Juggy Jones (J-2?), so it all ties in with The Poets on Symbol (owned by Sue), but I was wondering if anyone had any definitive info?

Regards,

Dave

hi dave, from info in my little black book, it had the j-2 listed in a discography as below, from soul harmony, but no date was given for this release. this is what i have written down

ronnie lewis,paul fulton, mel bradford and johnny james

j-2 1302 wrapped around your finger

symbol 214 she blew a good thing 1966

216 so young and so innocent 1966

219 i`m particular 1966

veep 1286 the hustler 1968 (i had this noted as being the next number up from little anthony and IMPS "yesterday has gone"

the other "poets" became the Main Ingredient, but had one on Red bird,

from soul harmony tom klien

To be precise, the Poets (later to become the Main Ingredient) was released twice on Red Bird.

[boba]

To be precise, the Poets (later to become the Main Ingredient) was released twice on Red Bird.

To be precise, there is only one record on Red Bird credited as the Poets. The same group had a second Red Bird 45 as the Insiders and went on to have two 45s on RCA as the Insiders before becoming the main ingredient.

[Steve G]

I read Juggy sold his masters/rights to Sue to UA in 1968. Would Symbol, J-2 be part of the deal?

I've always thought J-2 was a post Sue / Symbol project kind of code for "Juggy's second attempt".....but that's just me speculating....

[Chalky]

I've always thought J-2 was a post Sue / Symbol project kind of code for "Juggy's second attempt".....but that's just me speculating....

You are probably right Steve, Just speculation on my part also going on the dates mentioned and when he sold his interests in Sue/Symbol?

[Sebastian]

J-2 was a short-lived successor of Sue. There is an extremely rare Baby Washington 45 on the label, a version of Bob Dylan's Like A Rolling Stone.

And the b-side, entitled "The New Yorker", is the instrumental to "Leave Me Alone" under a different title.

[Tony Smith]

I can remember Carl, Clarkie and Butch all having this at Yarmouth 91! Sam later on that year.

[Robbk]

I read Juggy sold his masters/rights to Sue to UA in 1968. Would Symbol, J-2 be part of the deal?

I would guess so. And maybe that's why the last Poets' record came out on VEEP.

[Robbk]

I've always thought J-2 was a post Sue / Symbol project kind of code for "Juggy's second attempt".....but that's just me speculating....

Yes, I always thought this, as well. J-2 and the new black-labled Sue (#1-12) came out after the old, orange Sue/Symbol/Broadway/Juggy/Crackerjack/A.F.O(Sue Dist. version) were ended. It stands to reason that it was a new (re-organised) company, just as what happened with us at Airwave records (morphing into Airwave International after Airwave went bust).

[Guest]

I was also thinking Yarmouth weekender couldnt remember the year but 91 sounds right- I have it taped from the radio show somewhere think it was clarkie dj'ing

Carl must of also been one of the first to play it

I can remember Carl, Clarkie and Butch all having this at Yarmouth 91! Sam later on that year.