Roburt Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Had this through the letter box today, >>> LINK <<< Okehdokeh, re your US Columbia Jukebox 7" EP (Chambers Brothers tracks lifted from their 'Time Has Come Today' album) ... .... I have a few copies (I liked the look of the label so much, I bought the whole damn lot that a Northampton market stall guy had over 20 yrs ago) of a similar gospel EP featuring Mahalia Jackson tracks. The label colours of my EP are very different (red & yellow I seem to recall) but otherwise its a very similar release. I'M PUZZLED THOUGH ......... my EP (I'd guess) must date from the early 60's. Back then, anything none gospel was (to churchgoers) the Devil's music AND even worse, jukebox's were only housed in gin joints / bars where booze was sold & places where people danced. All such outlets were strictly 'off limits' to all God fearing folk ..... ... so what was Columbia doing putting out an EP that would only be heard in establishments where gospel record buyers would never tread? .... STRANGE BUSINESS DECISION OR WHAT !!! ANYWAY, is a full run down of all the r & b / gospel / soul / jazz Columbia 7" jukebox EP's available anywhere on't net ?? Edited March 29, 2012 by 45cellar
Amsterdam Russ Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Okehdokeh, re your US Columbia Jukebox 7" EP (Chambers Brothers tracks lifted from their 'Time Has Come Today' album) ... .... I have a few copies (I liked the look of the label so much, I bought the whole damn lot that a Northampton market stall guy had over 20 yrs ago) of a similar gospel EP featuring Mahalia Jackson tracks. The label colours of my EP are very different (red & yellow I seem to recall) but otherwise its a very similar release. I'M PUZZLED THOUGH ......... my EP (I'd guess) must date from the early 60's. Back then, anything none gospel was (to churchgoers) the Devil's music AND even worse, jukebox's were only housed in gin joints / bars where booze was sold & places where people danced. All such outlets were strictly 'off limits' to all God fearing folk ..... ... so what was Columbia doing putting out an EP that would only be heard in establishments where gospel record buyers would never tread? .... STRANGE BUSINESS DECISION OR WHAT !!! ANYWAY, is a full run down of all the r & b / gospel / soul / jazz Columbia 7" jukebox EP's available anywhere on't net ?? Funny this crops up now. Someone was telling me just the other day about the Sweet Chariot, a gospel nightclub set up with the support of Columbia Records in 1961. The house gospel group were The Sweet Chariots, who later became The Chariots, the group fronted by Tony Amaro on Loma. Gospel music, of course, was at the very heart of soul music and Columbia (who had made a lot of money out of Mahalia Jackson over a number of years) wanted to commercialise what they perceived as the crossover of church music into the pop/R&B mainstream and the fast growing interest for gospel itself. Not only was the Sweet Chariot a club where folks could go be entertained, but it provided Columbia with the possibility to record and consequently market live performances on LPs. At least one LP was cut entitled The Sweet Chariot - The Sensational New Pop Gospel Nightclub with "Soul". The title says it all! Here's a track from that LP... Unsurprisingly, gospel, nightclubs and alcohol were too toxic a mix and the place folded after about six months. Here are some clippings I dug up on the subject from... you guessed it - Billboard... Sorry, with hindsight maybe this is a bit too far off topic. Maybe worthy of a thread of its own? Edited March 29, 2012 by Russell Gilbert
Roburt Posted March 29, 2012 Author Posted March 29, 2012 Russell, ... great info. I understand the Columbia gospel jukebox LP release now, though it still seems a strange business decision (the gospel EP & the club).
Amsterdam Russ Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Russell, ... great info. I understand the Columbia gospel jukebox LP release now, though it still seems a strange business decision (the gospel EP & the club). It's not so strange a decision if you understand what was happening with the markets at the time, and particularly the Gospel boom as the clippings below testify. Today we see Gospel and Soul as two clear 'genres' with the latter owing its genesis to the former, which in turn was something that had had its heyday with the post-war jubilee style. The Gospel group, The Golden Gate Quartet wasn't just successful, they were a world-wide phenomenon. Check YouTube for some marvellous footage of their Saigon Tour in 1958. To show how highly Gospel music was held in society at this time, when JFK was elected President of the USA in 1961, he chose Mahalia Jackson to sing at his inauguration. For goodness sake, you can't get much more of a seal of approval than the Presidential Seal of approval! What I think we don't often appreciate is that Gospel fed Soul and Soul fed Gospel as far as music markets were concerned - each owed at least some debt to the other in commercial terms. Of course, history shows that Soul outshone Gospel commercially and culturally in the end. But not for the want of trying on the part of record companies, particularly Columbia, to resurrect Gospel in the first place and turn it into a holy cash cow which they labelled "The Authentic New Pop Gospel Sound"!! Hallelujah and Amen!
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Everybody who's interested in this genre would do well to check out a forthcoming Harmless release: 'Holy Spirit: Spiritual Soul & Funky Gospel' which should be out in late May/June. Compiled by Dave Hill, it'll be a 2 CD tour de force of the beauties within the Jewel catalogue. Ian D
Roburt Posted March 29, 2012 Author Posted March 29, 2012 That sounds good. Guess we can look forward to some Willie Morganfield, Bonner Brothers, Traveling Echoes, Mighty Stars of Harmony, Clarence Fountain, Violinaires, Morning Echoes of Detroit, Meditation Singers, Keith Barrow, Soul Stirrers, Bill Moss & the Celestials + Five Blind Boys of Alabama stuff then.
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 That sounds good. Guess we can look forward to some Willie Morganfield, Bonner Brothers, Traveling Echoes, Mighty Stars of Harmony, Clarence Fountain, Violinaires, Morning Echoes of Detroit, Meditation Singers, Keith Barrow, Soul Stirrers, Bill Moss & the Celestials + Five Blind Boys of Alabama stuff then. Blimey. There could be TWO double CD packages then? I dunno to be honest Roburt. I haven't had the time to peruse the track listing in earnest yet. But it sounds f*cking GREAT! I'll post up the track listing in the next couple of weeks. It's still being fine-tuned as we speak...... Ian D
Greg Belson Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Everybody who's interested in this genre would do well to check out a forthcoming Harmless release: 'Holy Spirit: Spiritual Soul & Funky Gospel' which should be out in late May/June. Compiled by Dave Hill, it'll be a 2 CD tour de force of the beauties within the Jewel catalogue. Ian D The CD was co-compiled by Dave Hill and me, mate. Looking forward to seeing the finished product!
Greg Belson Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) That sounds good. Guess we can look forward to some Willie Morganfield, Bonner Brothers, Traveling Echoes, Mighty Stars of Harmony, Clarence Fountain, Violinaires, Morning Echoes of Detroit, Meditation Singers, Keith Barrow, Soul Stirrers, Bill Moss & the Celestials + Five Blind Boys of Alabama stuff then. The tracklisting is practically finished, and there's a healthy smattering of pretty much all of the artists you mention. Such a great catalogue to source from.....all the tracks are simply killer! Edited March 30, 2012 by Greg Belson
Kris Holmes Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 look forward to checking this out when it drops
Roburt Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 Well if it's in the usual Harmless 2fer CD price range (£6 -7) ...... I 4 1 will be placing my order on day 1.
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 The CD was co-compiled by Dave Hill and me, mate. Looking forward to seeing the finished product! Hiya Greg. We meet at last LOL. I'm getting some artwork ideas on this as soon as I've put the Philly Box set to bed. The 2 CD's that Dave sent over are knockout. Even the whole office likes 'em which is rare. It shows you how much gold is in this area! I'm really looking forward to getting this out! Ian D
Roburt Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I know the project hasn't fully been 'put to bed' yet, but any hints going on how many tracks will be pure gospel & how many gospel-y soul. The likes of Charlie 'Cole Black' Brown's (lead singer of the Violinaires) soul outings certainly fall into the latter category. BTW, Gary Cape organised the release of his 2 cuts on the 'issue' 45. He has also stated in the past that "very very irritating thing is that they (the Jewel men) showed me their masters register. It showed 4 tracks by Charlie 'Cole Black' Brown - but in those days I was more interested in 45s than in masters and as they didn't have the audio readily to hand I never got to hear what the other 2 tracks were - but having been cut at the same session, it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if they were pretty good ........ ................ OOOHHHHH, lovely unissued 'Cole Black' cuts ......... what could be better !!!! Edited March 30, 2012 by Roburt
Greg Belson Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I know the project hasn't fully been 'put to bed' yet, but any hints going on how many tracks will be pure gospel & how many gospel-y soul. The likes of Charlie 'Cole Black' Brown's (lead singer of the Violinaires) soul outings certainly fall into the latter category. BTW, Gary Cape organised the release of his 2 cuts on the 'issue' 45. He has also stated in the past that "very very irritating thing is that they (the Jewel men) showed me their masters register. It showed 4 tracks by Charlie 'Cole Black' Brown - but in those days I was more interested in 45s than in masters and as they didn't have the audio readily to hand I never got to hear what the other 2 tracks were - but having been cut at the same session, it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if they were pretty good ........ ................ OOOHHHHH, lovely unissued 'Cole Black' cuts ......... what could be better !!!! Charlie Brown is a great call, but we haven't included any of his personal cuts he made with Jewel. From what I've listened to, most of his solo performances were secular for the label....having said that, I haven't been able to hear the unreleased gear, so there could be something in there. For the comp itself, we've tried to keep the music rooted in gospel first and foremost....tracks that stay true to the message of gospel whilst crossing over into different genres with their musicianship and production. I think Charlie's sides moved away from that, so hopefully that explains why we didn't include him. When Ian is ready, we'll upload the tracklisting. FYI I'm sure you know that the Violinaires recorded for Checker too......from their 'God's creation' LP, Charlie Brown released 'The whole world is watching'. it's the identical cut to the LP, but possibly was intended to crossover into the soul market. It appears to be pretty rare as tracking down a copy of the 45 is tough. It's featured here as the first cut on my DCGS pt. 1 mix, so hope you enjoy it. https://www.mixcloud.com/gregbelson/divine-chord-gospel-show-pt-1/
Greg Belson Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Hiya Greg. We meet at last LOL. I'm getting some artwork ideas on this as soon as I've put the Philly Box set to bed. The 2 CD's that Dave sent over are knockout. Even the whole office likes 'em which is rare. It shows you how much gold is in this area! I'm really looking forward to getting this out! Ian D That's fantastic news, mate! I'm heading back to the UK sometime in July for a few weeks if you've got the time for a beer.....
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) That's fantastic news, mate! I'm heading back to the UK sometime in July for a few weeks if you've got the time for a beer..... I've always got time for a beer. In fact, I think I'm fairly well-known for it.......... Ian D Edited March 30, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Charlie Brown's solo efforts (well the 2 I've heard) were soul cuts not gospel, but of course he still sounded the same as when he was singing lead for the Violinaires. Didn't Jewel (& other labels) persuade a few gospel group lead singers to try out on solo soul cuts before the singers themselves decided that they didn't really want to sing secular stuff. Edited March 31, 2012 by Roburt
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 Willie Morganfield made some great tracks for Jewel ............ This one is almost deep soul .... OR the Violinaires "God Has Been Good" which is also as close to deep soul as it's poss to get. Will either of the above be on the CD ?? The Violinaires "Groovin With Jesus" is almost funk, "He Touched Me" is more deep soul AND "Tryin To Get Ready" is a fine uptempo track --- but you can't use those cuts as they were all done for Chess.
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 "God Has Been Good" the Violinaires ..........
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 Here's one I originally picked up on 45 in a B&S soul pack way back in 1972 or 73. The Violinaires take the "Sweet Soul Music" idea across to God's side of the tracks (come on James Brown, Reffa & the Wicked one). ............. Now, this just has to be on the CD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 The Violinaires (back in their Jewel days coz they're still going today) .......
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 The Soul Stirrers (again back in their Jewel days) ..........
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 And you ain't got any solo tracks by him on the CD .. but here's the Violinaires lead singer, Charlie 'Cole Black' Brown, back then ......
Guest Matt Male Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) The Soul Stirrers (again back in their Jewel days) .......... They went through quite a few personnel changes after Sam Cooke left. From the Checker days: Edited March 31, 2012 by Matt Male
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 The CD has to contain tracks cut by most of this lot ..........
Kris Holmes Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 I dig the Morning Echoes Of Detroit "Upper Room" 45.
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 BTW, Wilson Pickett started out singing with the Violinaires around the mid 50's (the group were established in 1952). History of the group ........ https://www.thefantasticviolinaires.org/vpages/history.html They are still going strong today (now known as Robert Blair & the Fantastic Violinaires) & Charles Brown is still with them. Around 1999 / 2000 I used to drop in to see a woman I knew who worked for Bounce Records / PPI in Newark NJ. They were releasing Dunn Pearson tracks at that time & had hooked Dunn up with Beau Huggins Hush organisation (Freddie Jackson, Najee, etc). Anyway, as I was from the UK, she used to give me copies of all their releases & at that time they also represented Atlanta gospel label Grammercy. Grammercy had put out loads of CD's by old school gospel group and Robert Blair & the Fantastic Violinaires were one of these. So I ended up with 4/5 copies of every current Grammercy CD, Robert Blair & the Fantastic Violinaires' 'All About Jesus' being one of them. No idea where most of these spare copies have got to (in boxes in the loft / garage no doubt), but the CD contained some good tracks.
Roburt Posted March 31, 2012 Author Posted March 31, 2012 A further bit of irrelevant info ......... when I flew home from NY / Newark back in those days, I always had a backpack as my carry-on luggage. All my clothes & other bits (a few 45's / LP's I'd managed to pick up on my US travels) would go in the main suitcases in the hold, but my backpack carry-on would be strapped to my back. I'd do my best to make it seem that it was as light as a feather as I boarded the plane & got off back in the UK. I'd stroll thru immigration & out into airport arrivals to find my 'lift' or catch the shuttle bus to where I'd left the car. The weight of the backpack would be killing me all the while as it would be stuffed to overflowing with CD's. Since 9 /11 (the World Trade Towers) you can't get anything on a plane into or out of the US, so those days are now long gone.
Greg Belson Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Here's one that made the CD......when Ian's good to go, we'll post the full tracklist and running order.
Roburt Posted April 1, 2012 Author Posted April 1, 2012 Greg & Ian ....... I CAN'T WAIT .... TELL US NOW !!! ............. or at least ASAP !!!
Roburt Posted April 1, 2012 Author Posted April 1, 2012 Both sides of Jewel 220 are great ........ ---- The Soul Strirrers ----- I'm Trying To Be Your Friend (fastish) I'm Traveling On (QUALITY DEEP SOUL) Surely one of these 2 tracks has to B on the CD ( the DEEP B side hopefully).
Roburt Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 This thread has been slumbering for a while now ........ Any answer yet on what the track listing on the CD will be ?? ....... I really like the Meditation Singers version of "A Change Is Gonna Come " (Paula 356). Might that track be on the CD ?????
Greg Belson Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 No answer yet for the tracklisting as it's in the record labels hands at the moment. The Meditation Singers have some Jewel material included though.
boba Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 And you ain't got any solo tracks by him on the CD .. but here's the Violinaires lead singer, Charlie 'Cole Black' Brown, back then ...... that hair is insane
Roburt Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 Bob, he's a minister now, so I guess he wears his hair different these days !!!
Roburt Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) So thanks to Mr. Dewhirst (& the compilers) we will get a 2fer CD containing loads of great Jewel - Paula - Ronn gospel tracks. What we then need is a similar release containing loads of the Chess - Checker gospel stuff !!! After all, you could just about fill a CD with NS related Chess gospel cuts, so that should be even more of a commercial bet !!! BTW, anyone else here really like the Gospel Six's Checker 45 track "God Done Got Tired" ?? Edited April 29, 2012 by Roburt
Greg Belson Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 So thanks to Mr. Dewhirst (& the compilers) we will get a 2fer CD containing loads of great Jewel - Paula - Ronn gospel tracks. What we then need is a similar release containing loads of the Chess - Checker gospel stuff !!! After all, you could just about fill a CD with NS related Chess gospel cuts, so that should be even more of a commercial bet !!! BTW, anyone else here really like the Gospel Six's Checker 45 track "God Done Got Tired" ?? The 2fer CD contains tracks from just the Jewel label, for this comp, as clearance for each cut was no problem for the Demon Group. I agree about the Chess/Checker material, but I don't know who currently owns the rights to all their output. Could be a major minefield of clearance issues!
boba Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 Bob, he's a minister now, so I guess he wears his hair different these days !!! God places no restrictions on your hair -- he accepts you as you are
Roburt Posted April 13, 2012 Author Posted April 13, 2012 God places no restrictions on your hair -- he accepts you as you are Yes, Bob, but shouldn't God have set up rules to prevent other collectors from outbidding you on Evilbay ??
boba Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 God places no restrictions on your hair -- he accepts you as you are Yes, Bob, but shouldn't God have set up rules to prevent other collectors from outbidding you on Evilbay ?? ebay is the devil's work
Roburt Posted April 29, 2012 Author Posted April 29, 2012 Can you give us any hints on whose tracks will be on this 2fer CD set yet ......... any Clarence Fountain & Roscoe Robinson cuts to be included ??
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