Al Gardner - Sweet Baby - Has A Box Turned Up?

[Marc Forrest]

....... RE: Googa Mooga records being the 1st bootlegs, I'd have to say no to that.

However, I don't doubt that their 'US sourced releases' could have been put out without the US label owner's permission. Probably the guys who licensed the 1st Eddie Parker were sent copies of his other 'recent releases' by Jack. Jack hoping they would come back to license some of these additional tracks but perhaps they just went ahead & put them out anyway.

In Europe in the 60's (& early 70's), it was NOT UNCOMMON for a US recording to be dubbed off a mint copy of the US 45, a stamper made & UK / French / German label 45's run off (President / JayBoy did this most of the time I'm led to believe).

ALSO, it's my understanding that very little of the stuff released on the UK Sue label from its start up to the mid / late 60's was actually licensed from the US parent companies. The guy running Sue (& I can't bring his name to mind at present) just found copes of US 45's he liked (blues & soul tracks), copied them to tape, ran stampers off, pressed up Sue copies & distributed them to UK record shops.

So, bootleggers came later ........ but not everything that was done by European label owners in the 60's was legal & above board.

if I understand you correctly, you are saying that all sue record releases were done without authorization..so if thats true ( ?) whatelse to call them but bootlegs then ??

[Marc Forrest]

my guess would be the black americans stationed at the airforce bases ?

dont think so dylan, they had their own army shops to buy from where they could get us 45s for a discount price. you never ever saw them buying in german shop except for maybe buying german sausage, beer or souvenirs for their families at home.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Marc Forrest

[Benji]

I agree with Marc. American Forces had their own supplies, rarely bought anything at local shops. NIghtlife was something different as loads of bars and clubs catered to GI audiences in cities with larger US Army barracks.

BTW, anyone got a cheep Al Gardner on french Googa Mooga for sale? Now it's official it's a bootleg can't be worth anything can it?

[Geoff B]

I don't consider them to be OVO at all, originals are on Sepia.

Some people may think they are ok to play out but not this girl.

I'll second that Joan.

I have the Sepia copy and the Al Gardner on Sir-Rah also this!

Great slab of early Soul.

atb,Geoff Buckley.

[Marc Forrest]

I'll second that Joan.

I have the Sepia copy and the Al Gardner on Sir-Rah also this!

Great slab of early Soul.

atb,Geoff Buckley.

have a spare of the great groovesville 45 by the way...f**d labels, horrible looking vinyl but plays amazingly good. cheap!

my favourite by al gardener is the first take of "i`ll get along" feat. the primettes on lupine by the way...this the lupine 45 is by far the hardest to get..

[Marc Forrest]

BTW, anyone got a cheep Al Gardner on french Googa Mooga for sale? Now it's official it's a bootleg can't be worth anything can it?

one in sales curretly ;)

[Harry Crosby]

have a spare of the great groovesville 45 by the way...f**d labels, horrible looking vinyl but plays amazingly good. cheap!

my favourite by al gardener is the first take of "i`ll get along" feat. the primettes on lupine by the way...this the lupine 45 is by far the hardest to get..

Wonder if there all like that Marc, mines the same

[Marc Forrest]

Wonder if there all like that Marc, mines the same

thankfully not, my other stock/collection copy is very much okay...still it took me ages to find it LOL!

[Geoff B]

have a spare of the great groovesville 45 by the way...f**d labels, horrible looking vinyl but plays amazingly good. cheap!

my favourite by al gardener is the first take of "i`ll get along" feat. the primettes on lupine by the way...this the lupine 45 is by far the hardest to get..

Hard to get? It sure is! I ain't got one!Wish i had.

atb,Geoff.

[Benji]

one in sales curretly ;)

way overpriced IMO

[Marc Forrest]

Hard to get? It sure is! I ain't got one!Wish i had.

atb,Geoff.

geoff, I hope you find one soon. I wont tell you how long I was looking for one...only other copy I ever saw went thru ebay a year or so ago quite cheap. I was almost tempted to buy it as a future trade item but my pockets were too empty

[Windlesoul]

Well Benji sorry mate, but I genuinely don't think so IMO of course - will leave it for the Market to decide.

.....Oh by the way have just sold it !

Edited April 1, 2012 by mark w.

[Dylan]

dont think so dylan, they had their own army shops to buy from where they could get us 45s for a discount price. you never ever saw them buying in german shop except for maybe buying german sausage, beer or souvenirs for their families at home.

I will have to stand corrected.

[Paul Dunn]

have a spare of the great groovesville 45 by the way...f**d labels, horrible looking vinyl but plays amazingly good. cheap!

my favourite by al gardener is the first take of "i`ll get along" feat. the primettes on lupine by the way...this the lupine 45 is by far the hardest to get..

I have it the label credits Al Garner though, also have Eddie Parker's But if you must go - got to be one of the best Soul records to ever come out of Detroit and possibly his hardest record to find

[Marc Forrest]

I have it the label credits Al Garner though,..

true, but it is of course the same artist.

[Ged Parker]

....... RE: Googa Mooga records being the 1st bootlegs, I'd have to say no to that. However, I don't doubt that their 'US sourced releases' could have been put out without the US label owner's permission. Probably the guys who licensed the 1st Eddie Parker were sent copies of his other 'recent releases' by Jack. Jack hoping they would come back to license some of these additional tracks but perhaps they just went ahead & put them out anyway. In Europe in the 60's (& early 70's), it was NOT UNCOMMON for a US recording to be dubbed off a mint copy of the US 45, a stamper made & UK / French / German label 45's run off (President / JayBoy did this most of the time I'm led to believe). ALSO, it's my understanding that very little of the stuff released on the UK Sue label from its start up to the mid / late 60's was actually licensed from the US parent companies. The guy running Sue (& I can't bring his name to mind at present) just found copes of US 45's he liked (blues & soul tracks), copied them to tape, ran stampers off, pressed up Sue copies & distributed them to UK record shops. So, bootleggers came later ........ but not everything that was done by European label owners in the 60's was legal & above board.

This is very close to what I've been told be someone who was around back then. Apparently a cheque for a small amount was sent to whoever was a known contact on the record. Nothing else just a cheque in an envelope. As soon as it was cashed (probably with the person having no idea what it was for) the record was pressed. This would give the record label some cover if they were ever accused of bootlegging.

If you think about some of the sharp practice we know went on in the US why would the UK; or France for that matter; be any different.

I agree with Joan. Sepia only for me.

[Roburt]

How French labels should have done it ...........

[Roburt]

... AND the ad brought results ............

3 French Chess EP's to chase, lurverlea !!

[Marc Forrest]

This is very close to what I've been told be someone who was around back then. Apparently a cheque for a small amount was sent to whoever was a known contact on the record. Nothing else just a cheque in an envelope.

I cant think of one single law (system) in which this practice would equal a deal and or written commitment. nice they tried though but if that is true and was all that was done in order to authorize those early UK Sue releases...I am afraid theres only one word to call them..bootlegs. A can of worms indeed...

[Rom1]

How French labels should have done it ...........

Great ad Roburt (I never saw it)...Barclay was the biggest French major company (from his very known founder & the biggest french producer Eddie Barclay...who brought the 45 format in France in 1950, died in 2005)

[Chalky]

I have it the label credits Al Garner though, also have Eddie Parker's But if you must go - got to be one of the best Soul records to ever come out of Detroit and possibly his hardest record to find

Gotta agree with you Paul about "But If You Must Go"

[SLAMMINSOUL]

I don't consider them to be OVO at all, originals are on Sepia.

Some people may think they are ok to play out but not this girl.

Me too! Sepia only please

Clint

Edited April 4, 2012 by SLAMMINSOUL

[paultp]

So anyway, has a box full turned up?

[Ted Massey]

no Tim Browns was ex only and had been played both sides a good few times

[Quinvy]

So anyway, has a box full turned up?

Like I said in post number 8..........NO!

[Benji]

Me too! Sepia only please

Clint

:sleep3:

[SLAMMINSOUL]

:sleep3:

Ooooooh touched a nerve maybe? Lol

Clint

[Benji]

Ooooooh touched a nerve maybe? Lol

Clint

Not at all. I just found your and Joan's post tedious.

[Chalky]

Not at all. I just found your and Joan's post tedious.

Why do you find them tedious? They gave an opinion.

If Jack Ashford says they were done without permission that is good enough for me and others as well it would seem.

[Marc Forrest]

Why do you find them tedious? They gave an opinion.

If Jack Ashford says they were done without permission that is good enough for me and others as well it would seem.

Absolutely correct Chalky, and I of course dont wanna question his or Mrs Lorraine Chandlers words..I have the deepest of respect for both of them as I am sure everbody on here has. But so often have I experienced that people, artists tend do forget..expecially bearing in mind that those things are now 45 years ago.

I could have asked my mother where she lived in 1966 and she would have had known. But she sure wouldnt have had known what the name of the house owners were or who else lived in the house ..

So it could well be this deal is just simply forgotten about ?

Anyway, who knows.. all fine. Just my opinion.

[Chalky]

I agree Marc, artists do forget and I've had artists tell me they couldn't remember certain songs being recorded or released. Don Gardner couldn't remember nothing when we first talked to him

But both Jack Ashford and Lorraine seem to have all their marbles so no real reason to doubt anything they say. It is ok for some to say put up or shut up but maybe they should provided the evidence top prove Jack Ashford wrong? As far as I am concerned they are boots apart from the one that a deal was done for.

[Guest]

this has got to be one of the funniest threads iv'e ever read on here.

the difference between gooda and Googa Mooga

sometimes you just have to face it

youv'e been had...

[lorchand]

Absolutely correct Chalky, and I of course dont wanna question his or Mrs Lorraine Chandlers words..I have the deepest of respect for both of them as I am sure everbody on here has. But so often have I experienced that people, artists tend do forget..expecially bearing in mind that those things are now 45 years ago.

I could have asked my mother where she lived in 1966 and she would have had known. But she sure wouldnt have had known what the name of the house owners were or who else lived in the house ..

So it could well be this deal is just simply forgotten about ?

Anyway, who knows.. all fine. Just my opinion.

Hi Marc,

While it has been a while and Jack and I have differed on scenarios regarding 'back in the day', if I was there we do get it straight. If I ask him a question, I do expect the truth even if he was in the wrong at the time. If you made a mistake or got the deals confused (that happens) it's time to get right. Even during this thread, folks are still trying to sell the illegitimates!

I recorded and wrote so many songs during a period, I truly forgot some of them. Let them play once or twice and I will recall every word, see the musicians playing, etc. While material didn't sell here (USA), they were being copied and sold elsewhere. I'm just glad and blessed that I was right on how good the material and talent was that it still stands the test of time.

So Marc, it might be forgotten, but it can be recollected.

Lorraine

Edited April 5, 2012 by lorchand

[KevH]

this has got to be one of the funniest threads iv'e ever read on here.

the difference between gooda and Googa Mooga

sometimes you just have to face it

youv'e been had...

Why's it funny? Gooda/Googa - that's where the mystery started and looks like ending ,courtesy of folks on here.Some of us didn't know till now,some may have suspected...unless you knew all along.

[Jumpinjoan]

Why's it funny? Gooda/Googa - that's where the mystery started and looks like ending ,courtesy of folks on here.Some of us didn't know till now,some may have suspected...unless you knew all along.

I didn't know

[Jumpinjoan]

Not at all. I just found your and Joan's post tedious.

You find someone saying they find anything other than the original not an original tedious? Good comedy writes itself as they say

Edited April 5, 2012 by jumpinjoan

[Marc Forrest]

I'm just glad and blessed that I was right on how good the material and talent was that it still stands the test of time.

So Marc, it might be forgotten, but it can be recollected.

Lorraine

Hi Lorraine, so right on both accounts. Nth I can add to that.

atb

Marc

[Louise]

I seem to vagely remember a article containing a interview with Jack Asford in Jacques Pe'rin's Soul Bag Magazine along with other Detriot artist's etc. Has anyone got a copy as this might answer the question to the validity of the Googa Mooga releases?

We would also then need someone who can then read French

Dave

Edited April 7, 2012 by Louise

[Guest]

.

Edited April 7, 2012 by anorthernsoul

[Guest allnightandy]

Whats the guide price in JM Book and Tim B guide ?

£300 in TB's

[macca]

fabulous thread. "sweet baby" is a great soul record for me and 'just the touch of your hand' which I hadn't heard till now is close to soul perfection, one of those that reaches inside you, like some of the stuff on the dave godin deep soul cds.

is mr. gardner still with us by any chance? I understand he comes from selma, where it all got very nasty for the great reverend mlk back in 1965.