Hello all,

I have bought a record here on the board. Was gradet mint -.

But in fact the record was vg-.

I write a mail.

The buyer said: sorry for the wrong grading. You can send me the record back and when I recived this: I will send you the money back.

I said OK. But my mistake : I send the record 7 weeks later to him

And now he said:You wait to long. I send you the record back. no money.

Is this ok ?

When you are not happy with a record: Is it normal: first record back, then money?

Have other members problem with the grading?

Many thanks,

Micha

Seven weeks is a long time Micha, why so long?

  On 19/03/2012 at 20:26, Michael S said:

Hello all,

I have bought a record here on the board. Was gradet mint -.

But in fact the record was vg-.

I write a mail.

The buyer said: sorry for the wrong grading. You can send me the record back and when I recived this: I will send you the money back.

I said OK. But my mistake : I send the record 7 weeks later to him

And now he said:You wait to long. I send you the record back. no money.

Is this ok ?

When you are not happy with a record: Is it normal: first record back, then money?

Have other members problem with the grading?

Many thanks,

Micha

Hi Michael,

Think it's fairly normal for seller to ask for you to return record before they refund your money. Seems to have been errors on both sides here, as Mark said seven weeks is a long time before you send the record back. You may have to go to arbitration.

ATB Steve

Thanks guys.

Why I wait so long? I dont know. Played the noisy record only for one time. and then times runs ...

I think when the record comes back to me I learned the hardway.

Micha

  On 19/03/2012 at 20:26, Michael S said:

Hello all,

I have bought a record here on the board. Was gradet mint -.

But in fact the record was vg-.

I write a mail.

The buyer said: sorry for the wrong grading. You can send me the record back and when I recived this: I will send you the money back.

I said OK. But my mistake : I send the record 7 weeks later to him

And now he said:You wait to long. I send you the record back. no money.

Is this ok ?

When you are not happy with a record: Is it normal: first record back, then money?

Have other members problem with the grading?

Many thanks,

Micha

You should really have sent it back more quickly, but for a seller to grade a record so wrongly in the first place is careless at best and downright dishonest at worst. The offer of a refund upon return of the record seems fair though.

Fortunately, I've only had one bad experience with poor grading on this site - the seller said that the record was 'practically mint', but when I received it, I found it to be VG- at best. I kept the record, but was not at all happy, in fact I felt dismay that someone could be so careless/dishonest. (this was before there was a feedback system available.)

The next time I wanted a 45 from this guy, as a goodwill gesture, he sent me the record 'on approval' first, so that I could satisfy myself as to the true condition of the record. This time, he was spot-on with the condition grade.

Having said that, I would never buy any more records from him - there are plenty of other genuine and honest people selling records on this website that I have full faith in.

Seven weeks after complaining about condition is a long time to expect the seller to refund - if you were an unscrupulous buyer you could have sourced a much lesser condition 45 in that time and passed it off as the copy sold to you.

  On 19/03/2012 at 21:31, pikeys dog said:

Seven weeks after complaining about condition is a long time to expect the seller to refund - if you were an unscrupulous buyer you could have sourced a much lesser condition 45 in that time and passed it off as the copy sold to you.

Although that is possible, I think an honest seller would take the record back in good faith. Maybe even ask for a photo before sending to confirm it is the same 45. It would be pretty obvious it wasn't the same record if the seller sent a M- record and a photo revealed a totally different VG- record (versus just a difference in grading standards).

I agree the buyer took a long time to send it back but as a record buyer, you don't assume that by buying records you have to fit going to the post office into your busy schedule, you already have to spend a lot of time at a job to get the money to buy the records, as well as finding the records to buy on ebay, etc. 7 weeks is extreme but it's taken me 3 weeks to return things before out of busyness and not having time to make an unexpected errand. On the other hand, if I've sold a record, I would only have done so knowing I could get to the post office right away as I have their money and it's my job to promptly send stuff out.

Goods have to be rejected within a 'reasonable time' if you want to demand a refund. 3-4 weeks is usually considered the limit. However, as the record wasn't as described, the buyer notified this promptly, and the seller appears to have acknowledged this, I think the seller is still obliged to put things right, though need not give a full refund.

If this was something other than a second-hand record, the seller could provide a repair or replacement. With a used record (and assuming there is no dispute about whether the purchaser has made the condition worse), I think the seller should at least give a reduction on the purchase price, down to what the condition merited.

Alan

I'd be intertested to know why the big difference in grading here?

As you say it was "noisy" can I assume it looked M- but played badly?

Maybe you should PM me and give me the seller's name so I can have a look at this.

However waiting 7 weeks to return it as weakened your case somewhat.

ROD [forum moderator]

yeah, I feel that the seller had the right to not take it back after seven weeks but if I were selling it I would take it back (maybe asking for a photo first).

Was it an expensive record ? I guess not, as the buyer would have sent it sooner. Or am I wrong ?

Not a high level record and not a cheapie ( I think). A record for 75 UKP. When the record was expensiver maybe I send it faster. I agree with you.

Last Year I sold a 100 USD vg ++ record here on the board. After a few days the buyer send me a mail: "the record looks clean .But it jumps after about 40 seconds?I have tried it on two decks and it jumps on both in the same place"

So I say a big sorry and send the money back to him. After a few days I had record.

The reason why I tell this: I think it is normal. When you buy a record : first you give money then record. When you are not happy for a good reason. First come the money and the you send the record.

I say to the seller( A very friendly guy): OK I send the money back to you. But in mind (OK : very wrong grading and now I send the record back. And when he dont send the money? I have nothing.) I would send the record but so runs the time. Very stupid I know. And now I think it is fair when not money back. But it is not fair to grade a vg- ( looks really,really bad) to gradet M-.

Sometimes comes a record was graded ex and was vg+ to me. I think this is OK. I send a mail to the buyer and say : In my oppinion is this record vg+. But that was it for me.

But it is a long way down from m- to vg-

Thanks, Micha

  On 20/03/2012 at 14:24, Michael S said:

Not a high level record and not a cheapie ( I think). A record for 75 UKP. When the record was expensiver maybe I send it faster. I agree with you.

Last Year I sold a 100 USD vg ++ record here on the board. After a few days the buyer send me a mail: "the record looks clean .But it jumps after about 40 seconds?I have tried it on two decks and it jumps on both in the same place"

So I say a big sorry and send the money back to him. After a few days I had record.

The reason why I tell this: I think it is normal. When you buy a record : first you give money then record. When you are not happy for a good reason. First come the money and the you send the record.

I say to the seller( A very friendly guy): OK I send the money back to you. But in mind (OK : very wrong grading and now I send the record back. And when he dont send the money? I have nothing.) I would send the record but so runs the time. Very stupid I know. And now I think it is fair when not money back. But it is not fair to grade a vg- ( looks really,really bad) to gradet M-.

Sometimes comes a record was graded ex and was vg+ to me. I think this is OK. I send a mail to the buyer and say : In my oppinion is this record vg+. But that was it for me.

But it is a long way down from m- to vg-

Thanks, Micha

Sorry mate but that's not normal at all. Nearly all sellers or businesses, of whatever product, will refund upon safe return of the item in the same condition it was dispatched.

Can you imagine if word got out that a seller always refunds before receiving the item back. There would be that many buyers getting refunds without sending items back that the seller would be out of business in a very short time, with no stock and no money.

The seven weeks where too long micha, that´s right, but micha contacted the seller right after the 45 was delivered.

But the question, why the seller grades so heavily bad is still not answered. The Record was visually VG- and played as such (know that cause Micha did show me). As far as i know (Micha, please correct me if i am wrong), the seller stated that he is not the person who sent the record, he even is not in the same place (nor the same country) his 45s are in. He knew that he has that 45 anywhere back home, offered it to michael and gave a third person the order to sent in his name. I don´t have any problem with this practice as long as the item i bought arrives in the shape it was stated. We still not know for sure why the grading was that wrong (maybe the seller has two of this 45 and the third person sent the wrong one ) but keeping this in mind i think a full refund would be correct, and in mhop sending the money first would show to be a good seller.

Yes I agree with you. it is risky for the seller. This is a business but we all are soul an recordlovers. and most on here are honest. We need credit on both side. But when it beginns with a lie ? dilicate.

I dont know. That was the reason I ask here for your position.

Cheers, Micha

  On 20/03/2012 at 14:47, Dave Turner said:

Sorry mate but that's not normal at all. Nearly all sellers or businesses, of whatever product, will refund upon safe return of the item in the same condition it was dispatched.

Can you imagine if word got out that a seller always refunds before receiving the item back. There would be that many buyers getting refunds without sending items back that the seller would be out of business in a very short time, with no stock and no money.

That´s right, but i am not sure if selling 45s here as a private person answering a want-thread is exactly the same as offering 45s or other goods on a website with business rules etc. Buying and selling on a forum like ss, to me always depends on trust and feedback. It is always possible to both persons involved in a deal ending up as the idiot without 45 and without money. So it is more like an individual desicion if you send money or the record first. Both could be normal.

But there is also the possibility, that if you don´t know the other person you can search his content etc. to build or to cut off trust in the person answering your thread, which is impossible to a seller on a website. If you would search about michael you could find out that michael is an member for sometime, and that he is doing business as a buyer and a seller. I honestly don´t know what you can find out about he seller here but after getting junk although you were promised something like new, and the fact that there is a third person involved you do not know, would you give the seller both hoping for getting back your money?

Edited March 20, 201213 yr by spinneaussplit

  On 20/03/2012 at 15:34, spinneaussplit said:

That´s right, but i am not sure if selling 45s here as a private person answering a want-thread is exactly the same as offering 45s or other goods on a website with business rules etc. Buying and selling on a forum like ss, to me always depends on trust and feedback. It is always possible to both persons involved in a deal ending up as the idiot without 45 and without money. So it is more like an individual desicion if you send money or the record first. Both could be normal.

But there is also the possibility, that if you don´t know the other person you can search his content etc. to build or to cut off trust in the person answering your thread, which is impossible to a seller on a website. If you would search about michael you could find out that michael is an member for sometime, and that he is doing business as a buyer and a seller. I honestly don´t know what you can find out about he seller here but after getting junk although you were promised something like new, and the fact that there is a third person involved you do not know, would you give the seller both hoping for getting back your money?

Whatever mate but if it were me I'd have returned the record within days and expected my refund within a couple of days of the seller receiving it back. From the buyers point of view I can understand that it's a risk that the seller could get his record back and keep the money but he could have kept the money and not sent the 45 in the first place couldn't he. r

From the intial post ...

The buyer said: sorry for the wrong grading. He shouldn't have undergraded either by accident or design but he appologised and offered a no quibble refund.

You can send me the record back and when I recived this: I will send you the money back. Fair enough, normal practice for any merchandise in my experience.

I said OK. Why did he say OK and not argue the point. Buyer made an agreement with the seller but it took buyer 7 weeks to fulfil his part of the agreement. How long is it acceptable to hold onto an item before returning it, 1 week, 7 weeks, 15 weeks, 9 months or what.

Ok seller shouldn't have undergraded but as far as I can see buyer brought the resulting problems on himself. Ok, not guaranteed but if buyer had returned promptly (within a few days) then chances are he'd have been fully refunded instead of sat holding a sub standard 45.

Just the way I see it.

Edited March 20, 201213 yr by Dave Turner

most sellers on here are honest but i have also bought from someone who advertised as ex and it had a scratch which stuck on 2 out of the 3 decks ive tried it on...how can you say tha s ex?....after a few messages between us i gave up because she didnt believe me said shed never had a problem with it....now before i play it i have to test it first...lesson is ive never used them again so although it cost me £60 it cost her more in the end...

dean

I am closing this topic as the seller has kindly agreed to refund the buyer.

ROD [forum moderator]