Styrene Burn

[Daz Mc]

Bought a record last week with what appeared to be ex condition , got it home on my deck and a hiss all the way through , i take it that it is styrene burn.....Is there any way possible to get rid of this or is it a duff record ??

[boba]

Bought a record last week with what appeared to be ex condition , got it home on my deck and a hiss all the way through , i take it that it is styrene burn.....Is there any way possible to get rid of this or is it a duff record ??

there is no way to get rid of styrene burn, the grooves are physically damaged. The only thing you could do would be to use a different cartridge/stylus that rides in the grooves differently, it may hit an undamaged part of the groove. I guess you could mess with your turntable settings also, if you have a tonearm height adjustment it might make a difference.

[Prophonics 2029]

Some are pressed like, that have a couple that hiss but are quiet rare records.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Prophonics 2029

[NEV]

Bought a record last week with what appeared to be ex condition , got it home on my deck and a hiss all the way through , i take it that it is styrene burn.....Is there any way possible to get rid of this or is it a duff record ??

Interestingly ,you didnt actually state that the record was /is styrene ?

Could just be pressed on poor quality vinyl ....vinyl that has been melted down and re-used can cause hiss or constand crackle etc .

I remember buying a cheapish 45 from Craig Moerer that was listed as nm or m- ,unplayed stock copy ..and it arrived with a bit of annoying crackle.Emailed him to say so ,and he sent another one out free of charge ...which was the same

Seem to recall the copies of Captions -don't take your arms away from me ,on millage were also poor vinyl, that have some kind of noise throughout .

Styrene burn to me ,usually is referred to as cue burn and usually at the beginning of the record from the edge groove ,and often caused by people not being careful when cueing the needle ?

[Guest]

Interestingly ,you didnt actually state that the record was /is styrene ?

Could just be pressed on poor quality vinyl ....vinyl that has been melted down and re-used can cause hiss or constand crackle etc .

I remember buying a cheapish 45 from Craig Moerer that was listed as nm or m- ,unplayed stock copy ..and it arrived with a bit of annoying crackle.Emailed him to say so ,and he sent another one out free of charge ...which was the same

Seem to recall the copies of Captions -don't take your arms away from me ,on millage were also poor vinyl, that have some kind of noise throughout .

Styrene burn to me ,usually is referred to as cue burn and usually at the beginning of the record from the edge groove ,and often caused by people not being careful when cueing the needle ?

i think the title of the thread gives it away.

[Daz Mc]

Sorry Nev , should have said , its actually CARSTAIRS - IT REALLY HURTS ME GIRL Pink issue , and its styrene.

Edited March 16, 2012 by daz mc

[NEV]

Sorry Nev , should have said , its actually CARSTAIRS - IT REALLY HURTS ME GIRL Pink issue , and its styrene.

My mistake Daz... never been a fan of Styrene records and sold most of the ones that had any big value on em .

For more reasons than one ...hiss ,cue burn ...cracked copies that were perfect the night before

Dodgy plastic indeed ..and someones poor judgement to use as a material for making records with ...not to mention paper labels

Don't despair though ,and before making a final judgement ,you could try playing it on a different deck with different needles etc

[Prophonics 2029]

CARSTAIRS - IT REALLY HURTS ME GIRL Pink issue

Its a boot what do you expect.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Prophonics 2029

[NEV]

CARSTAIRS - IT REALLY HURTS ME GIRL Pink issue

Its a boot what do you expect.

Dont think so ???

Pink styrene stock copies are legit as far as im aware ??

Having just read through that lot ..... very interesting indeed ..and deffo casts a big shadow over my statement ..looks like people have been paying a fair bit for a 45 that was released in 74 as a supply and demand re-issue .... Ouch ! ,"it really hurts me girl "

That said ,it only gets played at places that don't give a shite about originals ....and Pete Smiths back room

Edited March 16, 2012 by NEV

[Quinvy]

You only have to play a styrene record once with a knackered stylus and too much weight on the tone arm, and it's permanently damaged. I have had many that looked minty but when played hissed all the way through, or more interestingly part way through.

My personal theory on this is.......when these records were first produced, the majority of turntables were very crude indeed. I remember my sister having Dansettes which had very heavy tone arms, and cartridges that had two styli that could be selected by twisting a small plastic tab on the end of the tone arm. One of these needles was a huge thing that was for playing 78's and 16's. I reckon these old machines are responsible for a lot of the styrene damage on these old 45's.

Another good indicator for this is if you play the flip side of a hissing 45, it usually plays perfectly.

I actually like styrene records, well from a audiophile point of view. If you get a mint styrene 45, the sound quality is far cleaner and superior to vinyl.

[Mal C]

And onto the wall it should go; you will never correct it, if you can return it, do it now...

that's my advise..

m

[45cellar]

Both Look Mint- (The only way to tell them apart is the Matrix - Which I think is just the press run & not a reason to doubt the press)

The Matrix -1 Plays Loud & Clear.

40075 1

The Matrix -2 Has Incredible NEEDLE BURN which drowns out the music. Unplayable to be honest.

Visually would pass close Inspection.

40075 2

[boba]

i think the title of the thread gives it away.

I think Nev was asking the person asking the question to confirm they understood that styrene was a type of material different from vinyl for making the record and that the words "styrene burn" only applied to records made from that material.

If there is a constant hiss on vinyl, there are a bunch of possible causes and a bunch of related solutions.

[45cellar]

I must find the thread that this Information relates to.

It was once mentioned on here that STYRENE could be damaged by the type of sleeve used over a period of time.

Think it was to do with Acid Free, Cardboard or something.

Will hopefully find that Info.

[45cellar]

Here it is >>> <<<

[Sleeps45]

evil styrene!

[boba]

I must find the thread that this Information relates to.

It was once mentioned on here that STYRENE could be damaged by the type of sleeve used over a period of time.

Think it was to do with Acid Free, Cardboard or something.

Will hopefully find that Info.

The sleeve damage isn't specific to styrene, certain types of sleeves will result in offgassing, hazing up your record (vinyl or styrene) and causing surface noise... This is unrepairable.

At least for the bags unlimited sleeves, they say their polyethylene and polypropylene sleeves are tested to not offgas but the polyvinyl sleeves (which are generally the weird stiff sleeves that are slightly translucent) will damage your records.

[Sjclement]

You only have to play a styrene record once with a knackered stylus and too much weight on the tone arm, and it's permanently damaged. I have had many that looked minty but when played hissed all the way through, or more interestingly part way through.

My personal theory on this is.......when these records were first produced, the majority of turntables were very crude indeed. I remember my sister having Dansettes which had very heavy tone arms, and cartridges that had two styli that could be selected by twisting a small plastic tab on the end of the tone arm. One of these needles was a huge thing that was for playing 78's and 16's. I reckon these old machines are responsible for a lot of the styrene damage on these old 45's.

Another good indicator for this is if you play the flip side of a hissing 45, it usually plays perfectly.

I actually like styrene records, well from a audiophile point of view. If you get a mint styrene 45, the sound quality is far cleaner and superior to vinyl.

Definitely caused by a weighted needle (stylus) probably where the record skipped I remember copies of You Made Me This Way Ila Vann were like this' so coupla' pennies on the arm did the trick If we knew what these records would be fetching in 20 years time we'd have been more careful!

[Soul16]

You only have to play a styrene record once with a knackered stylus and too much weight on the tone arm, and it's permanently damaged. I have had many that looked minty but when played hissed all the way through, or more interestingly part way through.

My personal theory on this is.......when these records were first produced, the majority of turntables were very crude indeed. I remember my sister having Dansettes which had very heavy tone arms, and cartridges that had two styli that could be selected by twisting a small plastic tab on the end of the tone arm. One of these needles was a huge thing that was for playing 78's and 16's. I reckon these old machines are responsible for a lot of the styrene damage on these old 45's.

Another good indicator for this is if you play the flip side of a hissing 45, it usually plays perfectly.

I actually like styrene records, well from a audiophile point of view. If you get a mint styrene 45, the sound quality is far cleaner and superior to vinyl.

Agree with the above post 100%

Buying second-hand styrene records is a lottery if you can't get to listen to them first.

In the past, for example, I've bought 'Ex and Near Mint' copies of Gino, Fay Simmons and Tommy Frontera - only to find that they have that spitty distortion and hiss from previous play on inferior or poorly set-up equipment.

On the other hand, I have a copy of What You Gonna Do by The Tempests that looks completely knackered on the surface, but plays without any noise or distortion whatsoever and sounds great. Unfortunately, due to its physical condition, it's probably almost worthless.

[Quinvy]

What gets me is, the side you bought it for sounds as though the producer was frying bacon and sausages in the studio, next to the mic, yet the flip side [which is inevitably crap] plays mint.

[Prophonics 2029]

I am wondering? I have more records pressed off centre than needle burnt ones. Are these the rejects that are now being picked up like all those royal esquires. I read one story about a shead load bined for being off centre...... Marty Hill Mr Oracle.

Pat Brown on Seven B as well! .....never seen one play straight yet

Edited March 20, 2012 by Prophonics 2029

[Weingarden]

If you can find a mono needle, it can sometimes eliminate the noise from a burned styrene 45 if the damage was caused by a stereo needle...

[Garethx]

The problem is that styrene should really be played with a different stylus to vinyl pressings, conical as opposed to elliptical. The conical stylus, particularly at the cheaper end, has a reputation for 'gouging' vinyl however.

The correct stylus at the correct weight can improve the fidelity results dramatically. Styrene can actually withstand far more tone-arm weight with the correct stylus. Too much weight with the wrong type however and you're essentially cutting a new groove in the record. Too little weight and you're getting flutter and distortion as the needle is being buffeted by the grooves.

The ideal situation is a separate turntable armed with a different pick-up for each type of record. Maybe realistic in the home but a problem if playing records at clubs.

[Geeselad]

The problem is that styrene should really be played with a different stylus to vinyl pressings, conical as opposed to elliptical. The conical stylus, particularly at the cheaper end, has a reputation for 'gouging' vinyl however.

The correct stylus at the correct weight can improve the fidelity results dramatically. Styrene can actually withstand far more tone-arm weight with the correct stylus. Too much weight with the wrong type however and you're essentially cutting a new groove in the record. Too little weight and you're getting flutter and distortion as the needle is being buffeted by the grooves.

The ideal situation is a separate turntable armed with a different pick-up for each type of record. Maybe realistic in the home but a problem if playing records at clubs.

you dont need different decks, just different carts.

[Garethx]

It takes the best part of half an hour to change and set up the cartridge on my Rega tonearm, so cartridges aren't easily swapped as they might be with say, a Technics arm.

[Guest]

can anyone recommend a good catridge I have always liked those concord ones but at the moment I use stanton cartridges.

[boba]

What gets me is, the side you bought it for sounds as though the producer was frying bacon and sausages in the studio, next to the mic, yet the flip side [which is inevitably crap] plays mint.

you might experience a weird phenomenon where styrene 45s you buy in the UK are destroyed on the side you want and ones you buy from the US are only destroyed on the "crap" side