Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Now I'm sure Ian Dewhirst will know lots about this subject ......... Patrick Adams got his start in the music biz in the mid 60's with soul group the Sparks. The group hit lucky from day one and landed a slot in a movie. Before long they were signed to Cub Records and had the 45 "Cool It" issued in 1967. By 1970 Patrick was working for Perception Records and when he left that organisation in 1974, he started up Harlem based P & P Records with Peter Brown. P & P soon hit it big with disco tunes & the label helped establish Patrick as a major player on the NY disco scene ...... BUT ..... my question is a bit more specialised. One of the 45's put out by P & P was by locally based singer Henry 'Smokey' Brooks. One side of this featured a late 60's sounding soul dancer; "Greatest Debt To My Mother". The other side of the 45 was pure JB style funk; "Mini Skirt". So both sides of the 45 were 'throw-back' sounding tracks by the mid 70's. ALSO, the "Greatest Debt" track is very short in duration for the mid 70's (2 mins 11 secs). This leads me to assume that this was an old cut that had languished in the tape vaults for a number of years before it escaped on that P & P 45. Henry Brooks more usually recorded under the name Smokey Brooks and as such he had a number of other impressive 45's released. His full real name was Henry L Brooks & he penned songs with the likes of Otis Turner and was signed to Leonard Lewis publishing (operated out of Leonard's apt at 345 W 58th St New York). Smokey also worked with Bobby Robinson and Earle Robinson. He had 45's out on Now (Leonard Lewis' label) .... "Eternal" being a good deep soul ballad. the above was coupled with another JB style funk item "Spin-It Jig" ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D-6lM7Zxp0 He also had 45's on Rampage (Bobby Robinson's label) -- "Nobody Loves You Like I Love You" ( 60's soul dancer) which was coupled with "Everyday Is A Good Day (When You're In Love)" .... And a 45 on Rochelle (out of NJ) "7 Moves For 7 Grooves" that was licensed for national distribution by Veep. This last track (also a funky dancer) got national distribution (on Veep) in the summer of 1967. So I'd guess that most of Henry's tracks were cut in the mid to late 1960's. Can anyone confirm this ??? Edited March 15, 2012 by Roburt
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 Unless you mean 'as well, they were ' then can't agree Steve. Patrick Adams was deffo in THE SPARKS on Cub. He quit the group in 1970.
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 Anyone know where I can get to hear his Rampage track "Nobody Loves You Like I Love You", can't seem to find a sound file ont'net. Strange as it seems to me -- although the writers credit on the 45 label for "Greatest Debt To My Mother" goes to H. Brooks, the song is actually registered with BMI under the name of Henry A Copeland. The person who uses this 2nd name wrote songs in conjunction with Zelda Sanders & seems to have had connections in Florida. Anyone able to explain this situation ??
Denbo Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Is this the same P&P label with J Mercy Baby as one of the labels recording artist? I'm gonna guess no, 'cos the one I've got sounds a lot earlier than the label you describe in your opening notes. But . . . you never know. I know I don't know, you know! :D
Steve G Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I will check but I am sure Sparkz on Bell as well.
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 Just noticed another track by Smokey Brooks -- "Long Time Ago" on some P&P related CD's. This is another funk cut & again its short (1 min 58 secs), so I'd take a stab at it being a mid to late 60's recording as well. Did this come out originally on a P & P 45 or was it one found in the 'vaults' in the last 10 years ? Believe that Smokey had teamed up with Leonard Lewis by 1971, so again that would guide me towards thinking his P & P stuff was late 60's (done for Peter Brown before P & P was set up).
Steve Plumb Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Just noticed another track by Smokey Brooks -- "Long Time Ago" on some P&P related CD's. This is another funk cut & again its short (1 min 58 secs), so I'd take a stab at it being a mid to late 60's recording as well. Did this come out originally on a P & P 45 or was it one found in the 'vaults' in the last 10 years ? Believe that Smokey had teamed up with Leonard Lewis by 1971, so again that would guide me towards thinking his P & P stuff was late 60's (done for Peter Brown before P & P was set up). 'Long time ago' came out on a P&P 45 (Pink Label) haven't got it to hand but can get the number if required?
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 When I get home I'll do some digging around in my files. I actually did a P&P label listing about 5 years ago when I put out the P&P story. However, details will always be sketchy with Peter Brown - P&P's owner. P&P really is the ultimate ghetto label and the label operated in a suitably indeciferable way which, I suspect is exactly the way Peter wanted it LOL. I BOUGHT the label in 2006 when Peter needed some quick cash and then found out he'd sold it to two other people before! Cue 2 years of legal hassles and some quick footwork to get my cash back and not get shot or sued. The only upside is that I remastered everything I could get my hands on undoubtably to a lot higher standard then the original releases. I've dealt with Peter over 30 years and he is what he is. What I do find unbelievable is that whenever a P&P track comes into demand it's never long before almost exact duplicates of the originals using the original stampers suddenly appear. I've got to hand it to him to be honest. He can never produce a written catalogue but he always seems to find the masters when he needs 'em! He's like the Jet Star of New York or Harlem to be precise. Ian D
Steve G Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Just checked my copy of the P&P side "Mini Skirts" (plural) - by Henry Brooks P&P 333.
Ernie Andrews Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I had lunch and an interview with Peter Brown in feb 2004 and as Ian says Peter is what he is. He peddles his own records from shop to shop and is where I met him in one in New york and is when I found out as long as you have the stampers you can cut 1 or 1000 or 1000 copies of any record in New York. Cost $3 to cut 1 and the more you have the cheaper it gets, and is why Im so sceptical of any record that turns up in numbers! Im surprised you attempted to buy the label Ian as Peter was tryin to get a cd of another 4 below zero track which I got from Norway I think and passed onto him so he could press it up.
Sebastian Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 By the way, have you seen the new box set consisting of almost 20 hours of music from the P&P affiliated labels? https://www.undergroundhiphop.com/pp-records-x-serato-pressings-pp-records-hits-hits-hits-3xaudio-dvds-book-poster-2x12-singles-w-serato-control-tone/PP1977ACC/
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 RE: 'Long time ago' came out on a P&P 45 (Pink Label) I'd love to know what the other side of the 45 is !!
boba Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Sparkz on bell is an unrelated (white I think) group. It was mislisted together in the first volume of soul harmony singles. Sparks on Cub originally came out on a small label, MSR. On the MSR label it says that they performed the songs in some film (I have to dig out the 45 to see what the title was again). I would love to see this footage but have searched in the past and not been able to find it. The flip of the sparks "woe woe" is top notch sweet soul, killer.
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 RE: I actually did a P&P label listing about 5 years ago ................. I'd love to see that. So is it documented anywhere which 45's came out back in the day (mid 70's) and which others appeared at much later dates ?? Ian, do you know when the Henry 'Smokey' Brooks cuts actually date from (recording wise) ?
Sebastian Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 RE: 'Long time ago' came out on a P&P 45 (Pink Label) I'd love to know what the other side of the 45 is !! B-side is instrumental. Credited to Smoky Brooks. Smoky Brooks - Long Time Ago (vocal) / Long Time Ago (instrumental) - P&P 1212
boba Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I had lunch and an interview with Peter Brown in feb 2004 and as Ian says Peter is what he is. He peddles his own records from shop to shop and is where I met him in one in New york and is when I found out as long as you have the stampers you can cut 1 or 1000 or 1000 copies of any record in New York. Cost $3 to cut 1 and the more you have the cheaper it gets, and is why Im so sceptical of any record that turns up in numbers! Im surprised you attempted to buy the label Ian as Peter was tryin to get a cd of another 4 below zero track which I got from Norway I think and passed onto him so he could press it up. I don't know anyone who has a relationship with a pressing plant that they can do that, maybe Adams has some inside thing. However, I don't know if you've seen old stampers but anytime I've found some they weren't really in any sort .of usable condition. It's unlikely that someone who doesn't even have the master tape of a record (the situation with most obscure soul 45s) would have stampers btw
Denbo Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 B-side is instrumental. Credited to Smoky Brooks. Smoky Brooks - Long Time Ago (vocal) / Long Time Ago (instrumental) - P&P 1212 That label looks a lot like my J Mercy Baby release, except it's yellow.
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Patrick's group (The Sparks) appeared in the 1967 Warner Bros. Movie "Up the Down Staircase". Most (if not all of this has been posted up on Youtube (in 9 parts) .... PART 1 &--#62;&--#62; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7LixWEk1eo So I guess if anyone can be bothered to wade through all the 9 parts, they can id just when & in which part the group appears. Edited March 15, 2012 by Roburt
Sebastian Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 That label looks a lot like my J Mercy Baby release, except it's yellow. The J Mercy Baby P&P label was from Mississippi. The one being discussed here was from New York.
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 About 2 minutes into the clip of the film you see a street billboard for radio stn WVNJ. When the film was shot (mid 60's) this was an AM stn operating out of Newark, New Jersey that playlisted soul tracks.
Denbo Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 The J Mercy Baby P&P label was from Mississippi. The one being discussed here was from New York. Thanks Seb.
Goldsoul Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Pat and I go back to 1975. I met him at Disco Disc in Forest Hills. His first production was for Bobby Robison's BR label in Feb 1967 on the Carlettes 'Im Getting Tired' Very talented fella indeed. I released Kiss and Tell by Tam E Hunt in 1990. Pat wrote it. Ironically, it was close to being recorded by Madonna.
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Pat and I go back to 1975. I met him at Disco Disc in Forest Hills. His first production was for Bobby Robison's BR label in Feb 1967 on the Carlettes 'Im Getting Tired' Very talented fella indeed. I released Kiss and Tell by Tam E Hunt in 1990. Pat wrote it. Ironically, it was close to being recorded by Madonna. Yeah, I thought you'd bumped into him at some point Kev. I'm pretty sure he came into the conversation one time when I was in Nottingham in the late 70's and you had that office up the stairs with racks full of records. I remember picking up a ton of those "Hollywood" mix 12"'s at the time LOL (and I wish I'd kept 'em all). You met him waaay before I did. He was some character ay....? Ian D Edited March 15, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) OK, here are the 7"'s that I logged in 2006: DAYBREAK EVERYTHING MAN P&P DAYBREAK I NEED LOVE P&P FLAME & THE SONS OF DARKNESS SOLID FUNK/SOMETHING P&P 222 FOUR BELOW ZERO MY BABY'S GOT ESP PTS 1 & 2 P&P 1050 FOUR BELOW ZERO TELL ME WHY WE CAN'T BE FRIENDS PTS 1 & 2 P&P 742001 OTIS TURNER & THE MIGHTY KINGPINS DO THE FUNKY DONKEY GILYARD 1979 1313 SMOKEY BROOKS LONG TIME AGO VOC & INST P&P 1212 SONS OF DARKNESS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE/BLACK ICE P&P 444 SONS OF DARKNESS HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU/FUNKY THING P&P 445 SOUL SEVERES I GOT IT PTS 1 & 2 SPECTRUM 115 WILD HONEY I'VE BEEN WORKING GEORGIA PEACH And here's the 12"'s:- ABRA CADABRA HUSTLE BUSTLE PICSER 1979 8080 ABRA CADABRA SEE WHO PLAYS JODY 70 AHZZ NEW YORK'S MOVIN' LAND OF HITS 1981 903 ANITA MALDONADO WHAT CAN I DO MAKE YOU DANCE QUEEN CONSTANCE 412 BABY FRESH & BABY K SPOLID ROTTEN CHOCOLATE STAR 1987 CS 1557 BERNARD RAPPER DAPPER THOMAS GOT TO BE IN GOT TO BE OUT LAND OF HITS 1981 611 BEST FRIEND AROUND IT'S SO GOOD TO KNOW LONNIE RECORDS 433 BIG DRUMMER BREAK VOL.1 WE ARE MAKING MUSIC LAND OF HITS 316 BILLY NICHOLS LET'S DO IT SOUND OF THE UNIVERSE 2222 BOBBY MAN SPANK ME LAND OF HITS 1980 607 BRISKO THE KIDD BIG FOOT BOOGIE GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 70 CATHERINE MILLER TURN MY KEY A-LOOSE TYSON 428 CC CREW CC CREW RAP GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 30 CHAIN REACTION DANCE FREAK SOUND OF NEW YORK 1980 707 CLOUD ONE DISCO JUICE P&P 1977 777 CLOUD ONE CHARLESTON HOPSCOTCH P&P 1977 777 CLOUD ONE DISCO JUICE RE-EDIT P&P 1977 777 CLOUD ONE JUMP,JUMP, JUMP QUEEN CONSTANCE 1977 4040 CLOUD ONE FUNKY DISCO TRACKS OF CLOUD ONE (EP) QUEEN CONSTANCE 1978 4040 CLOUD ONE DUST TO DUST QUEEN CONSTANCE 1978 4545 CLOUD ONE DOIN' IT ALL NIGHT QUEEN CONSTANCE 1978 4545 CLOUD ONE ATMOSPHERE STRUTT-REMIX 1 QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 4646 CLOUD ONE HAPPY MUSIC QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 LP 6 CLOUD ONE FUNKY TRACK QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 CLOUD ONE CLOUD ONE SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 703 CLOUD ONE DON'T LET THIS RAINBOW PASS ME BY GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1981 2525 CLOUD ONE FLYING HIGH HEAVENLY STAR 1982 1010 CLOUD ONE ATMOSPHERE STRUTT-REMIX 2 ? ? ? CLOUD ONE STOMP YOUR FEET AND DANCE ? ? ? CLOUD ONE MUSIC FUNK ? ? ? CLOUD ONE PATTI DUKE SOUND OF NEW YORK 703 CLOUD ONE FEATURING ANGEL WAITING FOR THE SUNSHINE TO COME TODAY AND TOMORROW TD 2 CLOUD ONE / JOHNNY COPELAND ATMOSPHERE STRUTT P&P 1976 111 CLOUD ONE GILYARD & PAP SPACED OUT P&P 1977 1818 CLYDE ALEXANDER & SANCTION GOT TO GET YOUR LOVE HEAVENLY STAR 612 CLYDE ALEXANDER & SANCTION GOT TO GET YOUR LOVE - KENNY DOPE RE-EDIT HEAVENLY STAR 612 COUNT D OJ DON'T WORRY DARROW & STEREO STEREO FUNK LAND OF HITS 1980 605 DAVID KING TRINIDAD ROCK QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 4141 DAVIS & DAVIS THE PROFESSOR ON CENTERSTAGE/SPACE WALKING/SLOW WALKING CHOCOLATE STAR 1987 CS 1556 DENNIS MOBLEY & FRESH TASTE I'LL DO ANYTHING FOR YOUR LOVE P&P 1977 0 DENNIS MOBLEY & FRESH TASTE SUPERSTITION P&P 1977 0 DESTINY ORCHESTRA SPRING RAIN DESTINY 906 DESTINY ORCHESTRA GREEN ONIONS DESTINY 907 DR.LOVE & SISTER LOVE LOVE RAP HEAVENLY STAR 1980 724 EDDIE CHEBA LOOKING GOOD (SHAKE YOUR BODY) TREE LINE 1979 3711 EDDIE OWEN SHAKE OF THAT DREAM SOUND OF GOLD 1978 8383 EDDIE OWEN DETERMINATION QUEEN CONSTANCE EDDIE OWEN SHAKE OFF (EP 4 TRACKS) SG FAMILY FAMILY RAP (PATTY DUKE GROOVE) SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 702 FAMILY FOUR RAP ATTACK TYSON 1 FLORENCE MILLER THE GROOVE I'M IN FLY GUY FLY GUY RAP GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 FLY GUY DISCO HOP FOSTER JACKSON FEEL THE SPIRIT LONNIE FOSTER JACKSON FEEL THE SPIRIT QUEEN CONSTANCE FOSTER JACKSON FEEL THE SPIRIT - RE-EDIT QUEEN CONSTANCE FOUR MAN CREW WE'RE IN A FURY FRESH G ROLLER ROOSTER 1982 FRESH TO ROCK JB SKI& PRINCE E/STUPID GIRLIE CHOCOLATE STAR 1987 CS 1558 FRESH TO ROCK WE'RE FRESH TO ROCK/I CAN'T STAND IT/GET ON DOWN BASS FORCE/CHOCOLATE STAR 1988 CS 1570 FUNKY DISCO MUSIC ME,YOU & HIM P&P 1414 FUNN SCHOOL DAZE MAGIC 1981 93500 GAYLORD WALKIN 42 STREET GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 20 GOLDEN FLAMINGO ORCH. FEAT. MARGO WILLIAMS THE GUARDIAN ANGEL IS WATCHING OVER US GOLDEN FLAMINGO 2929 GUY FORTUNE TELL ME WHAT TO DO FOR YOU P&P 1983 104 HARRY BROWN IT'S JUST AS HARD FOR A MAN AS IT IS FOR A WOMAN GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 14000 HENRY BROOKS GREATEST DEBT TO MY MOTHER (7") P&P 1977 333 HIGH FIDELITY LIFETIME/DEDICATED/LOVE CHAMP QUEEN CONSTANCE 98 HIGH FIDELITY MAGIC CARPET HIGH VOLTAGE ROCK SPANK FREAK QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 8787 HONEY DIP MC I'LL KEEP YOU WARM (BED WARMER) HOOKER (PETER BROWN) HOOKER P&P 1977 999 IKIM AND BACARDI FUNK RAP LAND OF HITS 1980 802 IMPERIAL THREE IT'S ROUGH HIT MAKER 1986 6 IOU CHILL OUT GEORGIA PEACH 9999 JESSE GOULD OUT OF WORK P&P 1977 2222 JESSE HENDERSON I DID IT AGAIN LAND OF HITS JOE MILO YOU'LL NEVER GET AWAY FROM ME LAND OF HITS 1981 902 JOHNSON PRODUCTS JOHNSON JUMPIN SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 704 JOYCE JONES REMEMBER ME QUEEN CONSTANCE 402 JOYCE JONES & VELMA JONES QUEEN CONSTANCE THEME QUEEN CONSTANCE 401 KARISMA FEAT.JOCELYN BROWN GOT YOU DANCIN SOUND OF THE UNIVERSE 1976 2424 KATHY MILLER TELL'EM I LOVE YOU TYSON 1982 429 KESSLER TURN UP YOUR RADIO GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 80 KIM TAYLOR STOMP YOUR FEET AND DANCE QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 6062 KING DAVID HITCH HIKE ONE MORE TIME P&P 1977 666 KING DAVID STOOP DOWN BABY P&P 1977 666 KING DAVID SINGS THE BLUESB (LP) P&P 1977 888 LA SHE BA YOU'VE BEEN HUNCHIN' HEAVENLY STAR 1979 719 LAND OF HITS ORCH. GANGSTER ROCK GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 10000 LANIER BLINDED (BY THE QUALITY OF YOU) CLARANCE 2020 LANIER 25 HOURS CLARANCE 2020 LAVABA & E.MALLISON A GAME OF LIFE HEAVENLY STAR 1983 3333 LAVABA & E.MALLISON A GAME OF LIFE - RE-EDIT HEAVENLY STAR 1983 3333 LE'O ROY POUND FOR POUND GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 60 LICKY AFRICAN ROCK QUEEN CONSTANCE 9292 LICKY DREAM LOVER QUEEN CONSTANCE 9292 LIL' MICHAEL SHE SWEPT ME OFF MY FEET HEAVENLY STAR 610 LITLE TEX T FLY GUY MASTERPIECE GOLDEN FLAMINGO LITTLE SCOTTY GOING TO A DISCO TONIGHT QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 8686 LITTLE SCOTTY I WANT TO DANCE SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 504 LITTLE SCOTTY SHOUT AT THE DISCO SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 504 LITTLE STARSKY GANGSTER ROCK GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1979 11000 LITTLE STARSKY DANCIN' PARTY PEOPLE GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1981 19000 LJ WAITERS HOOKED ON YOUR LINE QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 LP 4 LJ WAITERS COME ON AND ROCK QUEEN CONSTANCE LOUIE DELIGHT THEY PUT SEX IN EVERYTHING STIL RISING REC 1004 LOUISE MURRAY DID YOU NOTICE LAND OF HITS 1983 608 LOZINE WRIGHT YOU'RE SO GOOD TYSON 4444 LOZINE WRIGHT STOP THE TAXI TYSON 127 LOZINE WRIGHT WAIT WAIT TYSON 382 MAGNETIC TOUCH AIN'T GONNA BE A NEXT TIME P&P 1976 1515 MANCEFIELD HITCHMAN GOING TO A P&P DISCO PARTY P&P 1978 1919 MARGIE LOMAX GOD'S GREATEST GIFT TO MAN IS A WOMAN GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1978 2727 MARGO WILLIAMS GOD SAVE AND PROTECT THE CHILDREN GOLDEN FLAMINGO 2828 MARGO'S COOL OUT CREW DEATH RAP HEAVENLY STAR 1979 721 MARTA ACUNA DANCE DANCE DANCE P&P 1977 555 MARVIN WRIGHT/SCOTT DAVIS ROBOT DANCE/FUNKY PHANTOM QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 LP 3 MARY CLARK TAKE ME I'M YOURS LA SHAW 310 MASTER JAY WE ARE PEOPLE TOO GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 90 MC CHOCOLATE STAR THE POP/SPACE WALKING CHOCOLATE STAR 1982 CS 1555 MC ROMEO GIVE A LITTLE BIT TO ETHIOPIA SOUND OF THE UNIVERSE SU-1 MICHAEL CAMPBEL & HIGH VOLTAGE WE ARE MAKING MUSIC HITMAKERS 1983 715 MILTON FLOYD ANYWAY I CAN SOUND OF THE UNIVERSE 2121 MINK'S PHILLY ELECTRIC FLASH DANCE GEORGIA PEACH 7777 MIRACLE BAPTIST CHOIRS ALBUM QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 502 MISTAFIDE EQUIDITY FUNK LAND OF HITS 1981 901 MR B RAPPER DAPPER B HITMAKERS 1980 718 MR MAGIC RAPPIN' WITH MR MAGIC MAGIC 1980 904 MR.FOX SMOOTH TALK GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 16000 MR.FOX PARTY TRACK GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1980 16000 MUSIC MAKERS JUMP JUMP JUMP (VOCAL) QUEEN CONSTANCE NAOMI PETERSON SWEET NAOMI RAP HEAVENLY STAR 1980 723 PAPER DOLL GET DOWN BOY HEAVENLY STAR 1979 720 PAPER DOLL IT'S GIHIN TO BE CORNBREAD TIME TYSON 2 PERSONAL TOUCH IT AIN'T NO BIG THING - RE-EDIT PETER BROWN & PATRICIA GYLIARD BLINDED SOUND OF THE UNIVERSE PHILIP ROGERS CHARLIES ANGELS DISCO P&P 1977 444 QUEEN CONSTANCE BAND UNIVERSITY OF DANCES 1978 (ALBUM) QUEEN CONSTANCE 5252 QUEEN YAHNA AIN'T IT TIME P&P 1976 1010 RAPPER DAPPER B COM ON Y'ALL 1981 REASON TO LIVE LOVE FANTASY / YOU GAVE ME LOVE P&P 1111 RUDY STEWART GET DOWN/ONE AND ONLY LOVER SOUND OF NEW YORK 417 SAMMY MOORE JR. & BAND DISCO JOGGIN POOKY RECORDS 4949 SCOOPY SCOOPY RAP (PATTY DUKE GROOVE) SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 701 SCOTT DAVIS FREAKTIME HEAVENLY STAR 1977 509 SCOTT DAVIS FREAKTIME P&D 1977 523 SCOTT DAVIS & THE MOVEMENTS N.Y. APPLEJACK QUEEN CONSTANCE 207 SHEROD SCHOOLING (PUT YOUR MIND TO THE MESSAGE) FUNK GROOVE 1980 3232 SHIFT ROLLER RINK FUNK LAND OF HITS 1979 801 SICLE CELL & RHAPAZOOTY RAPAZOOTY BLUE SOLID GOLD CREW (DO THE ) DOUBLE DUTCH SONGS AND SOUL OF ELLA HAMILTON HERE'S TO YOU, I'M GONNA FOOL YOU QUEEN CONSTANCE 4242 SPOONIE G SPOONIE RAP (REMIX ) HEAVENLY STAR 1981 0 SPOONIN' G (SPOONIE G) SPOONIN RAP (PATTY DUKE GROOVE) SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 708 STACK WIN JESSE WIN HEAVENLY STAR 1984 5555 STAX NEW YORK COMPUTER BREAK DANCE GEORGIA PEACH 888 STEWART, RUDY GET DOWN / ONE AND ONLY LOVER SOUND OF NEW YORK 1980 417 SUPER COOPER & CLARANCE BREAKERS THIS IS THE WAY YOU DO THE BREAK DANCE CLARANCE 1984 SUPER COOPER & CLARANCE BREAKERS THIS IS THE WAY YOU DO THE BREAK DANCE GEORGIA PEACH 1984 1616 SUPER JAY SUPER JAY LOVE THEME HITMAKERS 1980 714 SUPER JAY SANTA'S RAP PARTY SOUND OF NEW YORK 1980 712 SWEET G BOOGIE FEELIN RAP QUEEN CONSTANCE 1980 3131 TEEN MACHINE TEEN MACHINE RAP LAND OF HITS 1980 606 TERRY LEWIS WITH REASON TO LIVE DISCO CITY TERRY TUNES 1977 526 THE MUSICMAKERS JUMP JUMP JUMP (VOCAL) QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 6060 THE SHARONETTES SUGAR DUMPLING DESTINY 908 TONY GRAY & BEVERLY LEE & THE SHIFT BAND MOAN FOR LOVE HEAVENLY STAR 609 TROY RAINEY TRICKY TEE RAP HEAVENLY STAR 1979 722 UNIVERSAL TWO DANCING HEART GOLDEN FLAMINGO 1981 3030 VA. -ANITA MALDONADO/MUSIC MASTERS WHAT CAN I DO MAKE YOU DANCE/FEEL LIKE LOVE/JUST HANGING AROUND QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 415 VARIOUS ARTISTS E.P. GEE DEE/LAST NIGHT/STAY WITH ME/THE TIME FOR LOVE IS NOW/GOT TO GET YOUR LOVE/SUPER JAKE/THE PROFESSOR HERE/THE POP CHOCOLATE STAR CS 1554 VELMA JONES SEARCHING FOR MY LOVER QUEEN CONSTANCE 403 WAYNE FORD BEST THING IN LIFE P&P 1977 WAYNE FORD DANCE TO THE BEAT/FREAK OUT QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 99 WILLIE WOOD WILLIE RAP (JOHNSON JUMPIN GROOVE) SOUND OF NEW YORK 1979 709 WOODY WOOD & WOOD CREW WOODY RAP (JOHNSON JUMPIN GROOVE) QUEEN CONSTANCE 1979 WORLD MC'S CRACK ADDICT ZOOT 2 DR. ICE RAP LAND OF HITS 1980 803 He had so many subsidiary labels, it was a real bitch trying to pin it down. I went pretty far and wide in just getting the above info. I had to compile all the Disco collectors info with all other sources but, at the time I was concentrating on rare Disco not potential Northern obscurities 'cos I thought I already knew 'em all. However, when I got to hear a couple of early P&P releases like Florence Miller's "The Groove I'm In" and the Queen Yahna record I realised that P&P had hitherto unrealised potential. NOBODY ever badmouths Peter Brown. His releases may have looked very amateur, under-designed, very basically recorded and sporadically distributed but he offered opportunities to artists and musicians that weren't available elsewhere. Patrick Adams and Peter Brown are still tight and that's a real rarity in today's music business. We should try and get him on here. Peter would just LOVE all this. You can bet your ass within days he'd be finding all manner of interesting recordings to throw at us. Ian D Edited March 15, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst
boba Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks so much for posting the movie link, I will definitely dig through it and post the parts where the group occurs. I looked maybe 5 years ago and could only find an IMDB reference to the film and that was it. thanks again!
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 So another track that P & P got their hands on was Smokey Brooks "I Want To Be True". I wonder where that track originated from & if it managed to escape on 45 back in the day. Seems Peter Brown may have issued tracks on P & P that he just managed to get hold of the master tapes for (perhaps from earlier projects he had been associated with).
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 HENRY BROOKS GREATEST DEBT TO MY MOTHER (7") P&P 1977 333 If the above indicates that this 7" was released in 1977 then I'd have to say that neither side of the 45 sound like they were actually recorded anywhere near 1977. More like 1967, 68 or 69. Who in their right mind would be releasing cuts of 2min 11sec duration in 1977 ??
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Pat and I go back to 1975. I met him at Disco Disc in Forest Hills. His first production was for Bobby Robison's BR label in Feb 1967 on the Carlettes 'Im Getting Tired' Very talented fella indeed. I released Kiss and Tell by Tam E Hunt in 1990. Pat wrote it. Ironically, it was close to being recorded by Madonna. I just noticed "Spring Rain" - The Destiny Orchestra on my own discography LOL. Wasn't that something to do with you Kev? Ian D
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 HENRY BROOKS GREATEST DEBT TO MY MOTHER (7") P&P 1977 333 If the above indicates that this 7" was released in 1977 then I'd have to say that neither side of the 45 sound like they were actually recorded anywhere near 1977. More like 1967, 68 or 69. Who in their right mind would be releasing cuts of 2min 11sec duration in 1977 ?? Peter Brown by the looks of it! I suspect we're still only scratching the surface of the full P&P story Roburt....... Ian D
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I just found Keb Darge's sleeve notes to the P&P Funk album which make interesting reading. I'm sure he'll be OK with me re-printing 'em here....... "To further bolster Suss'd Records definitive P&P reissue campaign, we now cast our eyes over P&P's funk legacy. Whilst the P&P group of labels are perhaps best-known for the underground Disco and Boogie gems they released in the 70's and 80's, their contribution to the Funk cannot be under-estimated. And now, with the Rare-Funk scene spawning a huge underground following, it gives me great pleasure to be involved with one of the rawest and rare independent Black-owned labels of all time - welcome to the wonderful world of P&P Funk ladies and gentlemen - hold on to your coat tails.............. The new wave of funk was hitting hard in the mid 1970's with a new sound that was setting dance-floors alight and seriously crowding up the ghetto record shops. The progression into Jazz-Funk and the extended 8-10 minute 12" format was seriously underway with DJ's anxiously awaiting each week's bunch of new releases. An exciting time for a new kind of dance music that was going places. My first memories of a Patrick Adams tune is of the very futuristic and synth-laden 'Atmosphere Strut' by Cloud One on the independent P & P label from Harlem - a bold record and pioneering release at the time. This was a massive record at the UK's leading Funk & Disco venues set in the exotic locations of the Blackpool Mecca and Manchester Ritz - the two venues which played new releases at the same time they were released in the U.S. If my memory serves me well I'm sure I heard this played at the Wigan Casino more than a couple of times when the Northern Soul scene and the Contemporary Dance scene uneasily merged for a while. Of course, there's every possibility that I'm a senile old fart now and could be muddled up with the ravages of time, but for a brief period of time in the mid 1970's such things were possible (other records at the time included such underground independent names like East Coast Connection, Boby Franklin, Snoopy Dean and Frankie Beverly's Raw Soul). Plus ANY record with Patrick Adams on the label credits was virtually guaranteed plays! For instance, another record packing the floor on the Northern scene was Peter Warner's impeccable 'I Just Wanna Spend My Life With You' on Polydor, a superbly written and arranged Patrick Adams masterpiece. Plus let's not forget another Patrick Adams Northern dance-floor arrangement with Four Below Zero's superlative Roulette release 'My Babys' Got ESP' which has since become one of the biggest Modern Soul records of all time on the Northern Scene. Wind the clock forward 15 years and you'll find me along with dozens of others digging into the mountain of neglected obscure Funk from the early 70's. One record that made it into every Funk collector's beginners box was the Flame & The Sons of Darkness - 'Solid Funk' who are also represented here with both "Funky Thing" and "What It Looks Like". Also, it wasn't until relatively recently that most of the tunes at the beginning of this collection started turning up in Rare Funk collectors' boxes - the young Kenny Dope first played me the Soul Severes' I Got It" Pts 1 & 2 only a few years ago! To be honest quite a few of the tunes on here I had never heard until Chris at Suss'd asked me to do this compilation - testament to the incredible rarity of many P&P items. Along with the funk on the first CD here you get a couple of beautiful soulful tunes. I would have to say that Henry Brooks - 'Greatest Debt to My Mother' is now my favourite tune on the compilation. This may come as a surprise to some, but it's a great slice of Northern Soul and is currently in the category of being a semi-known rarity and a relatively new find! The record was available a year ago for around £100 but those in the know tell me that the price has almost doubled just recently. This track, along with several others on the album, was provided courtesy of revered funk collector Ian Wright - good work lad! 'Greatest Debt to My Mother' is also the flipside to one of my other favourites on the album, 'Mini-Skirt' which is a tight slice of break-laden deep funk and another tune that really get my testicles tingling. Trying to put a year on it, it sounds circa '69, but like a lot of P&P releases, it's very difficult to glean any information from anywhere - part of the mystique of this low-budget Harlem independent. The same can be said about the majority of these tracks on this album, for which I imagine back in the day, little more than a couple of thousand of these tracks were ever pressed and probably didn't make it much out of New York, let alone as far away as Chicago, Detroit and L.A. Earlier in the year when Bill Brewster spoke to Peter Brown & Patrick Adams about P&P, for Kenny's P&P album, their memories of any of these specific recordings were vague to say the least and so it would appear that we may have lost the more precise details to the vagaries of time, chemical imbalance or maybe just a hazy lack of recollection! Remember this was the 'Harlem Hustle' where there were new records every couple of days fighting for space on the shelves. And P&P fought harder than most.......... What we do know is that The Soul Severes, who's track 'I Got It' which is featured here with the A & B sides edited together, is one of the few artists we have been able to find much out about - mainly due to Kenny Dope's earlier research. The nine-piece group hailed from the St Nicholas Housing projects in Harlem, New York and featured a young Patrick Adams as a member. Along the line they bumped into Peter Brown who was never slow in finding talent on his own doorstep and got the band in for virtually a one-session take and as a result, managed to get the ONLY recording of the Soul Severes committed to plastic. The group then mutated into the more contemporary early 70's sounding Black Ivory and spawned significant success as a result. However, this was one of the few success stories For the main part, P&P did what it said on the tin and perhaps, more appropriately, took it's strap-line on the labels of it's earlier releases seriously - "P.P. Means Poor People with Potential". The A&R side of the label was relatively straightforward, namely, Peter Brown would hustle his way around Harlem and unearth locally talented 'unknowns' who would seldom go below 110th street. Or he would enlist the services of local musicians like Patrick Adams to tip him on any newly emerging talents who want to get a record pressed. Names like Henry Brooks, the Sentimental Souls, Otis Turner & The Might Kingpins, Ella Hamilton, Eddie Owen, Smoky Brooks, King David & Little Scotty are unlikely to turn up in any "Who's Who In Soul' anytime soon! However, in many ways, this has made the P&P label one of the most sought-after in the collectors market. Other names on this album have since been discovered and created their own mini-cults where their records are more collectible than many of the more commercially successful acts from the era. In this category we place the aforementioned Soul Severes and Sons Of Darkness plus a number of the recently bootlegged RARE P&P gems like Peter Brown's own "Hooker Pts 1 & 2", Dennis Mobley & Fresh Taste's brilliant version of Stevie Wonder's "Superstition" and numerous others including the Foster Jackson Group, Scott Davis, Caress and Tony Aiken & Future 2000. And finally there's a plethora of both total and semi-unknowns with names like L.J. Waiters, Rudy Stuart, Mary Clarke, Eddy Cheba, Bobby Mann, the Dream Lovers and Kim Taylor. Some made it to record other independent releases (Rudy Stuart and L.J. Waiters spring to mind) whilst others faded into obscurity within weeks of releasing their debuts. This is all part of the rich tapestry of P&P Records. Listen and learn. On the second CD we move on to some of the lesser-known examples of the Soulful Disco, Disco-Funk and out and out 'Spacy Disco' for which Messrs Adams & Brown became famous. Once again, quite a few of the tracks on here were unknown to me until a few months ago when via Disco collector extraordinaire and P&P fanatic, Zaf Chowdry aka Discopak, passed some of these unknown gems my way and made my day. However, wind the clock back 15 years again to the glory days of Wigan Casino and Caress's "Brand New Love" becomes Ronnie Loves - 'Lets Make Love' on the Almeria label - one of the biggest tunes ever played by Richard Searling and one which would eventually become reissued on the UK Grapevine label. I was pleasantly surprised when I heard the version on here - it shows that even I am never too old to learn. So, even in this internet-driven world in 2007, I find I'm still amazed at the releases that the serious P&P collectors are still turning up. Don't try finding any originals - they'll leave a large hole in your pocket as the P&P releases are turning into the holy grail of collectors worldwide! Don't say I didn't warn ya! Keb Darge 2007" Ian D Edited March 15, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst
Guest Dave Turner Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Ian & Roburt, site here that might interest you guys https://www.discopatrick.com/home/4-patrick%20adams.html Gallery links to the right of the page
Goldsoul Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I just noticed "Spring Rain" - The Destiny Orchestra on my own discography LOL. Wasn't that something to do with you Kev? Ian D Yep. I produced it with Les McCutcheon.
Roburt Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The song titles that Henry L Brooks name is attached to on BMI are as follows ....... EVERYBODY LOVES ME; MAIN STEM BLUES; RASPERRY POLKA; SOUR TIMES; SPIN IT JIG; STRAIGHT FROM THE LIP; SWEET LUCY; THINGS ARE CHANGING. He wasn't actually registered with BMI under that name but his name crops up as being co-composer on each song with someone who was BMI registered. Some of the songs have titles (MAIN STEM BLUES; RASPERRY POLKA) that would suggest they date back to the 50's or early 60's. That assumption is backed up by the fact that another name on some of the songs (as part composer) is Lalo Shifrin. Shifrin was only based in New York from 1960 to 1963. Edited March 15, 2012 by Roburt
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Yep. I produced it with Les McCutcheon. Didja get any dosh out of him or was it a 'contra' deal.....? That has to go down as one of the most interesting deals of all time. How the f*ck did a UK produced cover of a Spanish record that was released on Salsoul in the US end up coming out on P&P? People will think we've colluded LOL but I don't think we've ever spoken about a Destiny Orchestra/P&P tie-up have we? I mean, even I would remember something like that surely.....? Ian D Edited March 16, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst
boba Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I found an unknown P&P sweet soul record a couple of years ago. It was by a group called me, you, and him. But it was exactly the same cuts as You, Me, and Him on K Schavonne (which the seller of the rouser record that's up now also has for sale). Who knows if it was legit or not. A few months ago I got a copy of the soul severes, it was just a kool and the gang soundalike record but I got a good trade because funk people want it.
Steve Plumb Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 OK, here are the 7"'s that I logged in 2006: DAYBREAK EVERYTHING MAN P&P DAYBREAK I NEED LOVE P&P FLAME & THE SONS OF DARKNESS SOLID FUNK/SOMETHING P&P 222 FOUR BELOW ZERO MY BABY'S GOT ESP PTS 1 & 2 P&P 1050 FOUR BELOW ZERO TELL ME WHY WE CAN'T BE FRIENDS PTS 1 & 2 P&P 742001 OTIS TURNER & THE MIGHTY KINGPINS DO THE FUNKY DONKEY GILYARD 1979 1313 SMOKEY BROOKS LONG TIME AGO VOC & INST P&P 1212 SONS OF DARKNESS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE/BLACK ICE P&P 444 SONS OF DARKNESS HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU/FUNKY THING P&P 445 SOUL SEVERES I GOT IT PTS 1 & 2 SPECTRUM 115 WILD HONEY I'VE BEEN WORKING GEORGIA PEACH Ian D Hi Ian The first two 45's are missing from this list? Personal Touch 001 Caress 002 (Daybreak is 003) Cheers Steve
Goldsoul Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Didja get any dosh out of him or was it a 'contra' deal.....? Ian- And I don't want to talk about the Destiny Orch either lol They became Shakatak by the way. That has to go down as one of the most interesting deals of all time. How the f*ck did a UK produced cover of a Spanish record that was released on Salsoul in the US end up coming out on P&P? People will think we've colluded LOL but I don't think we've ever spoken about a Destiny Orchestra/P&P tie-up have we? I mean, even I would remember something like that surely.....? Ian D
Goldsoul Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Ian- Nothing to say about the Destiny Orch apart from I didn't make a carrot. The session guys became Shakatak.
Wrongcrowd Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Hi Ian The first two 45's are missing from this list? Personal Touch 001 Caress 002 (Daybreak is 003) Cheers Steve Also..... Henry Brooks - Mini Skirts / Greatest Debt To My Mother PP 333.... quite a special 45.
Roburt Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 Henry Brooks - Mini Skirts / Greatest Debt To My Mother PP 333 ... the P & P 45 that's the reason I kicked off this thread. IMO there's no way those 2 tracks (or his others released by P & P) were cut in 1977; must date back to 69 / 70 I guess.
Sebastian Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Henry Brooks - Mini Skirts / Greatest Debt To My Mother PP 333 ... the P & P 45 that's the reason I kicked off this thread. IMO there's no way those 2 tracks (or his others released by P & P) were cut in 1977; must date back to 69 / 70 I guess. The claim that it was released in 1977 is probably due to an error (or assumption) in a discography that has been copied and copied and copied. The actual 45 looks NOTHING like a 1977 release. It looks and feels like a late 60s release and the typesetting and layout looks a whole lot more like other late 60s/early 70s releases on tiny New York labels.
Wrongcrowd Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) The claim that it was released in 1977 is probably due to an error (or assumption) in a discography that has been copied and copied and copied. The actual 45 looks NOTHING like a 1977 release. It looks and feels like a late 60s release and the typesetting and layout looks a whole lot more like other late 60s/early 70s releases on tiny New York labels. Yep, I'd agree, this release looks and sounds '72 at the absolute earliest. Edited March 16, 2012 by Wrongcrowd
Sleeps45 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 smokey brooks-spin it jig/eternal-now 1971 https://www.discogs.com/Smokey-Brooks-Eternal-Spin-It-Jig/release/827473
Roburt Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 The P & P label wasn't in being until the end of 1974 or early 1975 (Ian D will probably know better than I do what the exact date was), so the Henry Brooks 45 CAN'T have been released before 1975... AND it wasn't even an early release on the label. My GUESS is that it was a session that Peter Brown conducted BEFORE he teamed up with Patrick Adams to form P & P (perhaps in the late 60's or early 70's). When the label was up & running, it was just an existing mastertape that cost him next to nothing to turn into a P & P 45 release. The 1977 date comes from Ian Dewhirst's extensive research into the label and I have no reason at all to question his info.
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 The P & P label wasn't in being until the end of 1974 or early 1975 (Ian D will probably know better than I do what the exact date was), so the Henry Brooks 45 CAN'T have been released before 1975... AND it wasn't even an early release on the label. My GUESS is that it was a session that Peter Brown conducted BEFORE he teamed up with Patrick Adams to form P & P (perhaps in the late 60's or early 70's). When the label was up & running, it was just an existing mastertape that cost him next to nothing to turn into a P & P 45 release. The 1977 date comes from Ian Dewhirst's extensive research into the label and I have no reason at all to question his info. Yeah, but I must amplify that P&P is a really eccentric label and, as a result, most of what I put together was from whatever source I could find at the time. Plus, as per usual, I was probably doing a million other things at the time so it's not complete by any means as Plumby pointed out - and I have no idea how I missed the first 2 obvious releases. In fact, I just found a Paper Dolls P&P 7" on my shelves, so that 7" listing is far from definitive.......in fact I probably lifted most of it from here by the looks of it:- https://www.discopatrick.com/home/ Ian D
Wrongcrowd Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Henry Brooks - Mini Skirts / Greatest Debt To My Mother PP 333 ... the P & P 45 that's the reason I kicked off this thread. IMO there's no way those 2 tracks (or his others released by P & P) were cut in 1977; must date back to 69 / 70 I guess. You'd have to wonder why P&P would release the Henry Brooks 45 and both of the Florence Miller 45s in the mid-70's. They all sound far too dated to have had any hope of commercial or club appeal for that period.
Ernie Andrews Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 One of the pics I took of Peter when I had luch with him
Cobbles Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 i've had the henry brooks 45 on two different label designs (both red though) ie different fonts for the p+p design (one "plain" and then one a "times new roman" style)
NEV Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 i've had the henry brooks 45 on two different label designs (both red though) ie different fonts for the p+p design (one "plain" and then one a "times new roman" style) Franc ive not seen many of the copies with the bigger blocky font ,so thats gotta be its rarest format ? Interestingly the re-issue / boot chose same font but used different serial numbers two below are originals to my knowledge ?
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