Combinations What 'cha Gonna Do On Kellmac

[Quinvy]

Phil I thought a man in your line of work would have embraced technology. Get yourself a sniper, you can try it free of charge. You will never go back to early bidding again.

[Paul Shirley]

great why make things even more difficult , if folks dont want one then dont tell um .

[purist]

225 people watching Frankie Beverley, 156 watching Combinations.

I hardly think you can keep anything secret these days, unless you are lucky enough to find something wrongly listed, or in a batch, simply because it's so easy to search. I'll bet there's a fair few collectors & dealers who have the biggest rare 45's listed in their regular searches, especially with something like the Kellmac's, Shrine's etc

Originally wasn't it Rod S. who bought the first copy of each of the Kellmac's to the scene? When would that have been? 79-82 period ?

They're both phenomenal dancers which I dearly loved dancing to when I first heard them, and even if they turned up 20,000 copies and were knocking 'em out at a fiver I'd still be overjoyed at owning them. True Northern Soul of the greatest magnitude.

What next? a MelloSouls would be nice to see !

[boba]

gixen.com is a free sniping service, everyone should snipe. Sure, you can put in the max you want to pay earlier, but wouldn't it be better to get the item for significantly less? You can reinvest the difference in more records.

I have never ever seen the CODs for sale and was thinking about bidding 5k on it (not that I can afford to spend that on a record but this is like once in a lifetime almost) but figured I'd just be knocking up the price of the record before it goes to new york and that just hurts me. Still wish it wasn't posted, at least it would have gone for less, setting some value history.

[Phild]

Phil I thought a man in your line of work would have embraced technology. Get yourself a sniper, you can try it free of charge. You will never go back to early bidding again.

You would have thought so. But to me it's kind of like cheating.

I'll carry on as usual. Say I've just been outbid on a record at a little over $50 so I now have to put in $100, $150 and so on. I can't see that by using a sniper I'll ultimately end up paying any less or if so only pennies.

However, there would be more chance of me NOT winning the auction by using a sniper. As you have to second guess what people might be willing to pay so there would be a temptation (for me anyway) to put less in the sniper. So, if I put $100 or $150 in and it went for say $170 I would be gutted.

I seem to remember this same topic when I, at least to some anyway, paid well over the top for Ray Pollard on Shrine.

[Dylan]

gixen.com is a free sniping service, everyone should snipe. Sure, you can put in the max you want to pay earlier, but wouldn't it be better to get the item for significantly less? You can reinvest the difference in more records.

I have never ever seen the CODs for sale and was thinking about bidding 5k on it (not that I can afford to spend that on a record but this is like once in a lifetime almost) but figured I'd just be knocking up the price of the record before it goes to new york and that just hurts me. Still wish it wasn't posted, at least it would have gone for less, setting some value history.

will another collector ever emerge who gives this new york man a bit of competition on these peices ?

[Chalky]

I find it hard to believe anyone would think the COD's would slip under the radar and sell for a few hundred dollars.

I find it hard to believe that people think unless it is posted on here no one will see these sales. Most collectors and dealers I know see every record posted on ebay whatever the section. Most I know don't show their hand and bid till as late as possible so a bid with days to go is totally irrelevant to the end price.

[Chalky]

I honestly thought and still do that there are only 2 known combinations, but hey flick a tic tac and all that.

As far as I know there are at least three copies over here.

[Jumpinjoan]

will another collector ever emerge who gives this new york man a bit of competition on these peices ?

Funny enough I was talking to my favourite tall person about this just yesterday. The thing is, when money is no object to someone you can never win. They will chuck whatever it takes at it where as everyone else has to consider other stuff like paying bills. Real life will always come first to the likes of us and there lies the crux of the issue.

So the answer to your question is, in all likelihood, a big fat no

[Philt]

The frustration for me is that records like CODs and Combinations are essentially out of reach for us mere mortals; as Joan says, ultimately it comes down to money. Once upon a time, it could be argued, knowledge, commitment i.e. time spent and passion, contacts you'd built-up etc were bigger factors in the equation and it makes me a bit sad that those things are no longer the primary determinants of what you can and can't get your hands on. Maybe that's a tad rose-tinted on my part, I have previous in that respect for sure ...

It's been said before that technology has changed the way collecting works forever and whether that's a good thing or not is a matter of conjecture. I guess we all get to know about pretty much anything major that comes to market these days. Some would say that means you can at least have a punt and I've certainly picked stuff up over the internet in recent years that I never, ever thought I'd own so swings n roundabouts. With stratospheric 45s like these though it makes me feel like a lottery winner who can't find the bloody ticket! Maybe I'm tragic and need to get out more.

Absolutely none of my business of course but I really do hope that whoever wins them absolutely loves and treasures them, that they get em out every single day to look at and play and that the hairs prickle on their neck when they do. Not casting aspersions on anyone here, that's life; all's fair and all that and good luck to everyone who is realistically in the frame.

If money was not an issue I'd be owning both of them. It is and issue though and it ain't gonna happen LOL. All I can say is, come the end of the week ... ... you lucky, lucky b*stard

Bloody collecting, who started it anyway.

[Jumpinjoan]

Great post Phil, in a nut shell as they say

[Cobbles]

gixen.com is a free sniping service, everyone should snipe. Sure, you can put in the max you want to pay earlier, but wouldn't it be better to get the item for significantly less? You can reinvest the difference in more records.

I have never ever seen the CODs for sale and was thinking about bidding 5k on it (not that I can afford to spend that on a record but this is like once in a lifetime almost) but figured I'd just be knocking up the price of the record before it goes to new york and that just hurts me. Still wish it wasn't posted, at least it would have gone for less, setting some value history.

who's in new york??

[Iancsloft]

who's in new york??

My ex Wife

[soulsalmon]

D J Honky ?

[Pete S]

It's a bit like the top football clubs, they've got all the money so they get the best players and win everything.

I preferred it when any of 8 or 9 clubs could possibly win something.

[Benji]

D J Honky ?

[Modernsoulsucks]

Originally wasn't it Rod S. who bought the first copy of each of the Kellmac's to the scene? When would that have been? 79-82 period ?

No, they were Richard's. Combinations was massive as Chessmen c/u at Wigan. CODs he didn't really play much. Too fast? Dave and I probably played it at Stafford more than it got spun at Wigan.

Sold CODs to Tim to get me out of a hole in 2000. Combinations to Carl Fortnum few years back.

I didn't miss them until this bloody thread.

ROD

[Marc Forrest]

My ex Wife

LOL plus 8,175,131 other people

[Phild]

The frustration for me is that records like CODs and Combinations are essentially out of reach for us mere mortals; as Joan says, ultimately it comes down to money. Once upon a time, it could be argued, knowledge, commitment i.e. time spent and passion, contacts you'd built-up etc were bigger factors in the equation and it makes me a bit sad that those things are no longer the primary determinants of what you can and can't get your hands on. Maybe that's a tad rose-tinted on my part, I have previous in that respect for sure ...

It's been said before that technology has changed the way collecting works forever and whether that's a good thing or not is a matter of conjecture. I guess we all get to know about pretty much anything major that comes to market these days. Some would say that means you can at least have a punt and I've certainly picked stuff up over the internet in recent years that I never, ever thought I'd own so swings n roundabouts. With stratospheric 45s like these though it makes me feel like a lottery winner who can't find the bloody ticket! Maybe I'm tragic and need to get out more.

Absolutely none of my business of course but I really do hope that whoever wins them absolutely loves and treasures them, that they get em out every single day to look at and play and that the hairs prickle on their neck when they do. Not casting aspersions on anyone here, that's life; all's fair and all that and good luck to everyone who is realistically in the frame.

If money was not an issue I'd be owning both of them. It is and issue though and it ain't gonna happen LOL. All I can say is, come the end of the week ... ... you lucky, lucky b*stard

Bloody collecting, who started it anyway.

Some very valid points there mate.

I used to go to the US record hunting 3-4 times a year from the mid 80's through to the late 90's but eventually ebay and price guides ruined it.

There have always been those who can afford to buy whatever they want (not always with their own money ), but those of us who dug deep, trawled through 100's of 1000's of records for hours on end could always get good pieces for our collections. But nowadays if and when we do, the dealer or store owner just logs onto the web and "that'll be $1000 please sir" soon follows.

I'm sure that there are those among the collecting fraternity who can and do buy everything they want, do love the music just as much, but it's not just the mega rarities that make a collection is it? The £5/£10/£20 sounds are what make the backbone of a collection IMO

[Marc Forrest]

225 people watching Frankie Beverley, 156 watching Combinations.

I hardly think you can keep anything secret these days,

nev hit the nail on its head...its with wrongly listed or badly adevrtised listings such as the COD`s that you are still very likely to get a bargain. Unless of course somebody posts a link on a forum such as this.

I will never get my head around why they do...obviouslly the people in question cant be collectors and are not really interested in obtaining the record in question as they owuld keep quite otherwise of course. so it must be something psychological I can get because I have no phd in psychology...

[Marc Forrest]

I wasn't after it ,but I know someone who was ,so I'm disappointed for him that his chance of owning it has probs gone now

What's that old saying ??

Ah yes "patience is a virtue "

we do what we do best nev, we concentrate on them semi- and unknowns. still around and we get them cheap. you are a very good at that as well mate ! just got one thru the post yesterday and won another last night...yummy yummy.

[Monkey]

nev hit the nail on its head...its with wrongly listed or badly adevrtised listings such as the COD`s that you are still very likely to get a bargain. Unless of course somebody posts a link on a forum such as this.

I will never get my head around why they do...obviouslly the people in question cant be collectors and are not really interested in obtaining the record in question as they owuld keep quite otherwise of course. so it must be something psychological I can get because I have no phd in psychology...

[boba]

I'll carry on as usual. Say I've just been outbid on a record at a little over $50 so I now have to put in $100, $150 and so on. I can't see that by using a sniper I'll ultimately end up paying any less or if so only pennies.

However, there would be more chance of me NOT winning the auction by using a sniper. As you have to second guess what people might be willing to pay so there would be a temptation (for me anyway) to put less in the sniper. So, if I put $100 or $150 in and it went for say $170 I would be gutted.

The problem would be that you didn't put in the maximum you wanted to pay, not that you shouldn't have sniped. If you knew that bidding at $50 and getting outbid meant that you would pay $100, then $50 wasn't your max bid. All you're describing by rebidding is knocking up the price in a bidding war. Your true maximum is a little more than you want to pay, so if you get outbid by 1 cent you wouldn't have wanted to pay that extra cent.

[boba]

I find it hard to believe anyone would think the COD's would slip under the radar and sell for a few hundred dollars.

I find it hard to believe that people think unless it is posted on here no one will see these sales. Most collectors and dealers I know see every record posted on ebay whatever the section. Most I know don't show their hand and bid till as late as possible so a bid with days to go is totally irrelevant to the end price.

I don't think anyone was saying it would sell for a few hundred dollars or that nobody would see it. But, for example, it might sell for $7000 instead of $14000. On lower priced items, the same logic applies, except some of those things could also go under the radar completely.

[Phild]

The problem would be that you didn't put in the maximum you wanted to pay, not that you shouldn't have sniped. If you knew that bidding at $50 and getting outbid meant that you would pay $100, then $50 wasn't your max bid. All you're describing by rebidding is knocking up the price in a bidding war. Your true maximum is a little more than you want to pay, so if you get outbid by 1 cent you wouldn't have wanted to pay that extra cent.

Yes, but I like to test initially to see where it goes. Like my inItial $5000 bid on The Combinations

[paultp]

nev hit the nail on its head...its with wrongly listed or badly adevrtised listings such as the COD`s that you are still very likely to get a bargain. Unless of course somebody posts a link on a forum such as this.

I will never get my head around why they do...obviouslly the people in question cant be collectors and are not really interested in obtaining the record in question as they owuld keep quite otherwise of course. so it must be something psychological I can get because I have no phd in psychology...

When I put the link to the CODs up, firstly it had already been mentioned on here as being on ebay, secondly the price was at about 600 dollars which is hardly under the radar.

I'd had it on my watch list since it had been listed as the guy had another record listed that I have a search set up for and I was interested to see what it would fetch, I knew it would never stay at 9.99 as people always seem to put bids on this sort of record throughout the time of the listing. I always think it funny to see a 50 dollar bid on the second day of a listing of a record that will always go silly.

The advantage of snipe bidding is that records that are listed at 9.99 disappear into ebay if nobody bids on them. But I can't think of a decent record where that has happened for me for about two years.

A while ago I met somebody who looks at ebay from 5 am every morning and bids on every decent record, I reckoned that if one person was doing it then others were too. There is probably somebody who has set searches up for everything that books at £100 upwards and gets emails when they are listed, if there isn't there probably soon will be.

Might not have been seen? as if!

Edited March 15, 2012 by paultp

[Cobbles]

My ex Wife

does she collect records?

Edited March 15, 2012 by cobbles

[Dylan]

nev hit the nail on its head...its with wrongly listed or badly adevrtised listings such as the COD`s that you are still very likely to get a bargain. Unless of course somebody posts a link on a forum such as this.

I will never get my head around why they do...obviouslly the people in question cant be collectors and are not really interested in obtaining the record in question as they owuld keep quite otherwise of course. so it must be something psychological I can get because I have no phd in psychology...

almost certainly the people who post up have no intention of buying to buy the record.

thankfully its only obvious rarities thast get posted up in this way though so all is not lost.

i've never seen a seriously rare and great unknown being a topic of discussion in this way and doubt I ever will.

[boba]

A while ago I met somebody who looks at ebay from 5 am every morning and bids on every decent record, I reckoned that if one person was doing it then others were too. There is probably somebody who has set searches up for everything that books at £100 upwards and gets emails when they are listed, if there isn't there probably soon will be.

you have a limit of 100 searches, given the thousands of records that a 3 figures or more, you would have to create many different ebay accounts. And their saved search feature is totally unreliable and sometimes misses stuff completely, sometimes sends stuff after it's been up for a few days, etc.

If you're really serious about heavy searching with instant results, ebay has an RSS feed option which you can use and then do everything in your RSS reader.

[NEV]

D J Honky ?

Is it just me ,but as i dont know the guy ,and for the record he is probs a real decent fella ..but he's starting to come across like Manchester united...the dj you love to hate

The name DJ HONKY does'nt help either ,but for fear of taking this off topic and cos i'm sick of hearing his name attached to every rare ebay sale ...can someone start a thread and give us an insight into the man behind the mask please

Starting with .... New York dj with loads of cash and a greedy hunger for RARE /EXPENSIVE records ..oh,and a massive collection

P.s if your on here Honky ...hope the UK humour don't get lost in translation

[Chalky]

I don't think anyone was saying it would sell for a few hundred dollars or that nobody would see it. But, for example, it might sell for $7000 instead of $14000. On lower priced items, the same logic applies, except some of those things could also go under the radar completely.

But again you are assuming very few people have seen the listing. These two records there's only a few who would be in the market for them anyway and most of those don't contribute on here (or very little) or they have the record(s) so I doubt SS will have an effect on the end price, especially in these two cases. Granted some cheaper item it may influence but again most would see the listings anyway.

[Philt]

Is it just me ,but as i dont know the guy ,and for the record he is probs a real decent fella ..but he's starting to come across like Manchester united...the dj you love to hate

The name DJ HONKY does'nt help either ,but for fear of taking this off topic and cos i'm sick of hearing his name attached to every rare ebay sale ...can someone start a thread and give us an insight into the man behind the mask please

Starting with .... New York dj with loads of cash and a greedy hunger for RARE /EXPENSIVE records ..oh,and a massive collection

P.s if your on here Honky ...hope the UK humour don't get lost in translation

Is it just me ,but as i dont know the guy ,and for the record he is probs a real decent fella ..but he's starting to come across like Manchester united...the dj you love to hate

The name DJ HONKY does'nt help either ,but for fear of taking this off topic and cos i'm sick of hearing his name attached to every rare ebay sale ...can someone start a thread and give us an insight into the man behind the mask please

Starting with .... New York dj with loads of cash and a greedy hunger for RARE /EXPENSIVE records ..oh,and a massive collection

P.s if your on here Honky ...hope the UK humour don't get lost in translation

Don't even know whether he's in the market or not Nev, obviously. (Do know exactly what you mean about things getting lost in translation though - I thought that very thing when posting earlier on actually). Anecdotally, for what it's worth, I've dealt with him on several occasions in the past and my impression is that he's a genuinely nice bloke with a taste for quite rare records, with the means and will to feed it i. i.e. a complete b*stard

Edited March 15, 2012 by PhilT

[NEV]

But again you are assuming very few people have seen the listing. These two records there's only a few who would be in the market for them anyway and most of those don't contribute on here (or very little) or they have the record(s) so I doubt SS will have an effect on the end price, especially in these two cases. Granted some cheaper item it may influence but again most would see the listings anyway.

OK Chalky ... as you seem to think different to the rest of us ,and in fairness ,because of the "Spoilers" ,who feel the need to post silly and obvious posts ,we will never know or be able to prove the point .

If as you say ..SS spoilers wont or don't affect the end price ...is it too much to ask for a little bit of patience and just wait until the end of auction and then post up the result?

Come to think about it .....if it really is the case that no big ticket ,well known rarities do go under the radar ,and that all the big collectors constantly monitor ebay ...i'd feel a bit of a burk posting the header up in the first place, cos most people remotely interested,have actually seen the listing on ebay already

P.s

Did anyone else see the copy of Junior Mccants that went through a month back ,for a lot less than HONKY payed for it

[KevH]

The guy's(Honky) has got the means etc to buy what he likes.So what? Wouldn't most of us do the same if we were in his position? Al least he dj's.... and doesn't file them away alphabetically never to see the light of day again.

[NEV]

Don't even know whether he's in the market or not Nev, obviously. (Do know exactly what you mean about things getting lost in translation though - I thought that very thing when posting earlier on actually). Anecdotally, for what it's worth, I've dealt with him on several occasions in the past and my impression is that he's a genuinely nice bloke with a taste for quite rare records, with the means and will to feed it i. i.e. a complete b*stard

Heyup Phil ...you quoted me twice ..is that a New York thing

I think it's more a case of every time a big 45 comes on ebay and is won ..his name is always bandied about

....it kinda reminds me when i was a kid ,and this other lad (my age) used to brag about his older brother ( constantly) ..to the point that i disliked his brother even though i'd never met him...

.turned out,he was a top bloke ,very reserved and just a all round gentleman

Back on topic ,two top tunes and utterly amazed to see both of em on the same label at the same time and in such nice condition

P.s ..... Would'nt it be oh so funny if that co-incidence was actually more than ,and someone has actually found the stock

[Steve L]

The guy's(Honky) has got the means etc to buy what he likes.So what? Wouldn't most of us do the same if we were in his position? Al least he dj's.... and doesn't file them away alphabetically never to see the light of day again.

And he's a very nice chap as well!

[KevH]

And he's a very nice chap as well!

Anyone who gets the beer in is "nice" to you !!!

[Steve L]

Anyone who gets the beer in is "nice" to you !!!

Well there is that, plus he got me backstage to meet Don Gardner et al

[NEV]

Well there is that, plus he got me backstage to meet Don Gardner et al

Steve ..thats biased

[John A]

Yes, but I like to test initially to see where it goes. Like my inItial $5000 bid on The Combinations

I've given up trawling through ebay religiously these days,but I still buy most of my stuff from it. I tend to keep an eye on whats making any money then go from there.

Effectively, I let you guys do my searching for me,then snipe! Thats one of the points these chaps are trying to make against bidding early.

[Quinvy]

At the risk of being lynched...........the C.O.D's is a very poor record. If it was a tenner I wouldn't dream of buying it. I don't think it will make anywhere near as much as the Combinations.

Just my humble opinion.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Quinvy

[Chalky]

At the risk of being lynched...........the C.O.D's is a very poor record. If it was a tenner I wouldn't dream of buying it. I don't think it will make anywhere near as much as the Combinations.

Just my humble opinion.

I don' think it is poor, very good IMO but it is too fast and not as dance floor friendly maybe? If you see one for a tenner give me a shout, I'd pay that for it :-)

[Guest MrC]

At the risk of being lynched...........the C.O.D's is a very poor record. If it was a tenner I wouldn't dream of buying it. I don't think it will make anywhere near as much as the Combinations.

Just my humble opinion.

Think that's the problem with a lot of things, it may be rare, someone may have paid a few K for it, but that doesn't make it any good!

[boba]

And he's a very nice chap as well!

He is an *incredibly* nice guy. He and his DJ partner also put on the "dig deeper" event in new york where they actively support forgotten soul artists.

[jocko]

At the risk of being lynched...........the C.O.D's is a very poor record. If it was a tenner I wouldn't dream of buying it. I don't think it will make anywhere near as much as the Combinations.

Just my humble opinion.

I will pass you the rope........

Bloody hell this debate is about as circuitous as our other favorite debate.

Bill Murray should be adopted as our patron saint!

[boba]

But again you are assuming very few people have seen the listing. These two records there's only a few who would be in the market for them anyway and most of those don't contribute on here (or very little) or they have the record(s) so I doubt SS will have an effect on the end price, especially in these two cases. Granted some cheaper item it may influence but again most would see the listings anyway.

I am not assuming what you're saying. For any listing, if 300 vs 900 people see the listing, and there is talk about the item creating a buzz, the price will go higher.

re: cods vs combinations, I actually think the CODs record is way better, it is much more Chicago sounding and has a killer ballad flip (the combinations also has a good ballad flip, although not as good). "Coming back to you girl" is awful IMO though. I don't know which one is better in terms of northern soul, but if anyone has a CODs and wants to trade it for my Combinations, I'll do that right away.

[Dave Thorley]

He is an *incredibly* nice guy. He and his DJ partner also put on the "dig deeper" event in new york where they actively support forgotten soul artists.

I'll second that, nice guy, that plays great records and as Bob says their 'Dig Deep' give a showcase to many an older artist, more power to them.

[Dylan]

He is an *incredibly* nice guy. He and his DJ partner also put on the "dig deeper" event in new york where they actively support forgotten soul artists.

In all my correspondance with Rich i've always found him very friendly and also very knowledgable ablout soul music.

The live acts they put on must love the chance to play to an eager crowd.

[Guest Perception]

I remember this record in Wigan Casino, only then it was by The Chessmen and called "Like I Never Did Before"!!!

Edited March 15, 2012 by Perception

[Quinvy]

I will pass you the rope........

Bloody hell this debate is about as circuitous as our other favorite debate.

Bill Murray should be adopted as our patron saint!

It's a fookin forum, that's what it's for. If you aren't interested, bugger off and leave us to it. You are without doubt the biggest know it all smart arse I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.