Guest Polyvelts Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 I've been discovering some great sounds on this East St Louis label. The Georgettes, 3rd Flight, LaVel Moore, Young Disciples, Bobby McNutt. Has anyone, or does anyone know of anyone who's made a discography of this label ? Or can help build up a list on this thread ?
Kris Holmes Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 I assume you have this already? https://numerogroup.com/catalog_detail.php?uid=00703# 1
KevH Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 Sharen Clark & Product of Time - "Mama didnt lie".(version of Barbara Carr on Chess).
Guest Polyvelts Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 I assume you have this already? https://numerogroup.c...l.php?uid=00703# Ha Ha ! No, I didnt know about that !!! I must get out more !!! Cheers Kris !
boba Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 you should be able to piece together the discography from that CD. the rarest title on the label is definitely the eddie fisher 45.
Mister Fish Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Rob, if you're interested I've got the vinyl LPs? Edited March 13, 2012 by Mister Fish
John Reed Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Sharen Clark & Product of Time - "Mama didnt lie".(version of Barbara Carr on Chess). Top double sider
Guest Polyvelts Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Rob, if you're interested I've got the vinyl LPs? Cheers Steve, all call ya
Derek Pearson Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Always rated Daphine Williams 'I love you' as summat rather special. Released on a plain dark blue label though it's pretty hard to locate. derek
boba Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Always rated Daphine Williams 'I love you' as summat rather special. Released on a plain dark blue label though it's pretty hard to locate. derek the story behind this record was dauphine williams was a member of a male vocal group, but the other dudes were flaky and he ended up recording it with the Georgettes (on Merry) backing.
Roburt Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Tyrone Perry (later a member of Westmoreland & Co. on Emkay) started out in the Young Disciples who were the backing band on all the Yodi stuff. The Yodi organisation was set up by Alan Merry as a local youth project to keep East St. Louis kids off the street corners & out of trouble. Phillip Westmoreland (a guitar player who worked in the studio for Oliver Sain in late 60's / early 70's) put together a new band around 1972 in conjunction with Marcus Kelley (who had earlier cut for Bob Eagle's White Eagle label), calling it Westmoreland Company featuring Marcus Kelley. They were signed to CMC in St Louis and soon began working there with Kent Washburn ( the Hypnotic's, Charles Drain's producer) Kent completed a couple of tracks that Oliver Sain had started cutting on the group plus he laid down additional songs with a view to landing them a record deal. Another outfit that contributed to the tracks the group cut (providing backing vocals) was the Georgettes. These tracks all got lost in the mix at the time but eventually escaped on the only soul album released by Kent Washburn on his Emkay label (1979).
John Reed Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) 1000 - Sharen Clark & Product Of Time - I'm Not Afraid Of Love / Mama Did't Lie (Sho Come True) - 1971 (Also released on APT 26009) 1001 - ? - ? / ? - ? 1002 - Bobby McNutt - Country Loving Country Style / Hold Tight - 1972 1003 - Eddie Fisher & Allan (Dealth) Merry and Yodi Gang - Homeboy Part 1 / Homeboy Part 2 - 1972 1003/4 - 3rd Flight - Third Flight / Love, Love, Love - 1972 1004 - De De Turner Happining - Outside Of Memphis / Anyone Or Anything - 1972 1005 - LaVel Moore - The World Is Changing / I Just Want To Be Your Man - 1972 1006 - Sharen Clark & Product Of Time - That's A Good Reason / It's Not Your Business - 1972 1007/8 - Ames Harris Desert Water Bag Company - Checking Myself / People - ? 1009/10 - Georgettes - Hard, Hard / Would You Rather - ? 16857 - Daphine Williams - I Love You / I'm Your Man - ? Looks like 3rd Flight, 1003/4 was a was a duplicate number,different label design to the other Yodi releases but was a Young Desciples production. Daphine Williams was completely different in design and numbering but was also a Young Desciples production. Edited March 14, 2012 by John Reed
Guest Dave Turner Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) 1000 - Sharen Clark - I'm Not Afraid Of Love / Mama Did't Lie (Sho Come True) - 1971 (Also released on APT 26009) 1001 - ? - ? / ? - ? 1002 - Bobby McNutt - Country Loving Country Style / Hold Tight - 1972 1003 - Eddie Fisher & Allan (Dealth) Merry and Yodi Gang - Homeboy Part 1 / Homeboy Part 2 - 1972 1004 - 3rd Flight - Third Flight / Love, Love, Love - 1972 1004 - De De Turned Happening - Outside Of Memphis / Anyone Or Anything - 1972 1005 - LaVel Moore - The World Is Changing / I Just Want To Be Your Man - 1972 1006 - Sharen Clark & Product Of Time - That's A Good Reason / It's Not Your Business - 1972 1007 - Ames Harris Desert Water Bag Company - Checking Myself / People - ? 1008 - ? - ? / ? - ? 1009 - ? - ? / ? - ? 1010 - Georgettes - Hard, Hard / Would You Rather - ? 16857 - Daphine Williams - I Love You / I'm Your Man - ? Looks like 1004 was a duplicate number, 3rd Flight was a different label design to the other Yodi releases but was a Young Desciples production. Daphine Williams was completely different in design and numbering but was also a Young Desciples production. John, to explain your missing numbers 1008 & 1009. 1007 "People" is backed with 1008 "Checking Myself" The same applies with the Georgettes. 1009 "Would You Rather" backed with 1010 "Hard Hard" Edited March 14, 2012 by Dave Turner
John Reed Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) John, to explain your missing numbers 1008 & 1009. 1007 "People" is backed with 1008 "Checking Myself" The same applies with the Georgettes. 1009 "Would You Rather" backed with 1010 "Hard Hard" Dave, Just checked and by jove your right. Slap me for my tardyness, will change my listing So there's 1001 to find. It's not Sharen Clark cos that's 1000 for both the A/B side and Bobby McNutt's Hold Tight is 1002 and that's the A-side, so I wouldnt have thought they'd put 1001 on the B-Side, or would they? Edited March 14, 2012 by John Reed
Guest Dave Turner Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) John as it seems 1003 Eddie Fisher may also be a duplicate number. Possible these two from Third Flight being 1003/1004 are backed together as well. 1004 being De de Turner as well ........... I'm all confused https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJkkbAUz6sA Edited March 14, 2012 by Dave Turner
John Reed Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Right again, Dave. I'm starting to think that the 3rd Flight release was a bit of an anomaly compared to the other releases. Edited March 14, 2012 by John Reed
Mal C Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I've got the full discog for the article I did for shades of soul at home; I was lucky to speak to Alan Merry, Sharon Clark, Gus Thornton and eventually Daphine some years ago, he's a real card, I'll post it all up later. I've actually got audio interviews with allot them, but never put them up any where... Eddie fisher taught with Alan, Alan Merry told me that track was the Yodi men doing their thing!! I've lost touch with Gus, but I think he may have died, a real shame cause he helped me loads putting all that together long before anybody else had researched the label thoroughly. Sharon suffers from a heart condition, which effectively ended her singing career, but Alan Merry said he would have loved to get her back in the studio, she told me about Daphine and what a character he was.. There was another chap I spoke to who dealt with all the business side of things, forget his name now, but is a lawyer in Atlanta, Georgia, he was a real help as well as his memory was crystal clear.. Great label, and nice people.. Mal Edited March 14, 2012 by Mal.C. 1
Mal C Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 label discog as promised: Yodi - Discography St Louis, Ill 1968-73 1968 Daphine Williams I Love You 16857 /A Premier Film & Recording Corp. (Custom Press) I'm Your Man 16857 /B 1971 1000 Sharon Clark & I'm Not Afraid Of Love YD-1000-A The Product Of Time Mama Didn't Lie YD-1000-B 1972 Sharon Clark & I'm Not Afraid Of Love 45-APT-26009 The Product Of Time Mama Didn't Lie 45-APT-26010 1002 Bobby McNutt Hold Tight YS-1002-A Country Lovin' Country Style YS-1002-A 1003 Eddie Fisher, Dealth Merry & the Yodi Gang - Homeboy Pt1 / YS 1003-A - Homeboy Pt2 / YS 1003-B 1003/4 Third Flight Third Flight 1004A 7226 Love Love Love 1003B 7227 (Powder Blue label) 1004 De De Turner Happening Out Side Of Memphis YS-1004-A Anyone Or Anything YS-1004-B 1005 Lavel Moore The World Is Changing YS-1005-A I Just Want To be your man YS-1005-B 1006 Sharon Clark & That's A Good Reason YS-1006-A Product Of Time It's Not Your Business YS-1006-B 1007/8 Ames Harris Desert People TD-1007 Water Bag Company Checking Myself TD-1008 1009/10 The Georgettes Hard Hard 1009 8457 Would You Rather 1010 8456 Related Discs: Merry Records (Soul Sounds East) The Debonettes Tears / Choose Me Merry 1006A/B (Powder Blue Label) Gateway Records Larry Williams & The Young Disciples & Company Crumbs on the Table Gateway 16475-A Girls Girls Girls Gateway 16475-B (Recorded at Oliver Sains Studio in St Louis) (Label Copyrighted 1968 Premier Film & recording Corp. (Custom Press) Produced by Allen Merry & Mel Isaac, The Young Disciples & Co. Soul Band) The Young Disciples Bang Bang Bang Gateway 5836-A One For Hank Gateway 5837-B (Label Copyrighted 1969 Gateway Record Co. St.Louis Mo (Custom Press)
Mal C Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) And article, written in 2005, plus my white label press of the Sharon Clark 45. The Numero guys did face to face interviews with all the main players for their sleeve 6 or 8 months after this, and in all honesty got allot more detail than I ever did. One issue with this kind of thing is simply peoples memory, you have to piece things together from several sources and sometimes is still not always factually right, anyhow Gus said that Sharon and Alan were happy with what I wrote, so happy days... YODI The Young Disciples Records labels come about in many ways. In East St. Louis In the late sixties as with many regions in America, urban poverty, social & racial unrest were commonplace. As one of the more impoverished communities in Illinois, East St. Louis struggled, but where there is struggle there is always the opportunity for expression. The Young Disciples was a collective formed around a local community project called the 'South End Center' located at 1501 Russell, E. St Louis. Allan Merry a successful Musician and Recreational Director joined in partnership with a serving Vista Volunteer (Volunteers In Service To America) called Mark Swansa, to use their combined know how to help kids in the local community. Both men shared a theory that one way to help was to teach through music. To this end they formed 'The Young Disciples', the idea being local kids could use the experience to improve their own lives as well as earning additional money for themselves. By 1967 Allan was already an accomplished musician, he was lucky enough to be taught at high school by Curtis Amy who happened to be with Ray Charles's band. Curtis remembered Allan as a young pupil and persuaded Allan's parents to allow him to join Ray's Band. Naturally with the Young Disciples Allan took care of all things Musical leaving Mark to become business manager, booker, sound and lighting man, in fact just about everything that wasn't musical Mark did it! The Young Disciples band or 'the big band' as it was also known originally comprised of around 22 members who either sang or played an instrument, which turned into small combos or groups. I was lucky to talk with Gus Thornton an original member who attended Lincoln High School E. St Louis. Around 66-67 Gus hung out with a High School band called the Stimulations comprising of Daphine Williams (lead Vocals), Charles Berkley, Brently Gillespie, and Aulander Grey. Gus, Daphine and Charles lived near to each other and met Allan Merry through the community center and joined as an already formed rhythm section. As the Young Disciples they performed their first concert on Halloween night 1968 at the South End Center. That night all 22 members performed 13 numbers in front of 800 people, which Mark related to me went down so well when they got to the end of their show they simply had to perform the 13 numbers over again, its all they knew! Proceedings on the night were kicked of by the Young Disciples troop of Black Afro Dancers comprising of four boys and six girls. They boasted a comedy act as well as at least six vocal groups. There were the Primes, the Primettes (after the Motown groups), the Debonaires and the Debonettes, The Georgettes, the Gents and the Meditations. Allan told me that every one was playing somebody else, so you got the Meditations or the Gents who could have been the Jackson Five, and the Primes who were the Temptations and so on. With the success of their first concert the Young Disciples started to get regular gigs at community centers around the local area, until Mark secured bookings on university campuses in Illinois and Memphis performing for College students. They made appearances at the local State Fair, the Mississippi River Festival and various free concerts sharing the bill with the Chi-Lites and O.C Smith. Allan told me "they loved us, everybody loved the Young Disciples". Later that year Allan and Mark made the decision to change the name Young Disciples to YODI proper, Allan had used the abbreviation on the first release on Daphine Williams, but as there was a militant political group in Chicago called the 'Black Disciples' and they didn't want the Label associated with such groups especially as they had both been harassed by local gangs due to growing popularity. Mark added it was also benefitial from a commercial point of view as YODI was far more marketable name, they thought the Young Disciples had too many gospel overtones. Mark's involvement with YODI drew to an end in 1971, the same year the first release on the recognizable yellow, pink and orange swirl label design was released, which incidentally had been designed by Mark. YODI went on to release 10 more singles over the next year or so, some of which are very obscure. Here's what I know about those releases and the artists: Daphine Williams Allan Merry remembers Daphine as a kid of 15 years, a tenor who could not hold pitch; and although I've heard various stories about his waywardness I've got to say he probably recorded one of the best tracks on the label as well as some nifty ad-lib on the beginning of The Young Disciples 'Crumbs under the Table' released on the local Gateway label. Sharon Clark & the Product of Time Sharon Clark was from East St. Louis and was brought to YODI by one of the girls in either one of the female groups. Having sung locally with Oliver Sain one of the biggest Band leaders in St Louis, her first single 'I'm Not Afraid Of Love' was recorded at the Fame studio's in Memphis and got to No 8 in Memphis and New Orleans R&B charts receiving a fair amount of airplay. According to Allan, having had the single picked up by Apt / ABC through his 'on the road' contacts he thinks Sharon was sidelined at ABC due to them having just signed the Four Tops. YODI persisted with Sharon and sent them out on the road, they toured in Illinois and played in Detroit but the single eventually died. Luckily for us they did release a second single, which was recorded at Sam Philip's Sun Studio's in Memphis. Also brought in to help on the production side of the first release and subsequent releases was Gene "Bowlegs" Miller who was a very successful trumpet player as well as having being heavily involved in Hi Records in Memphis. Gene got involved in allot of small projects such as YODI at this time, stuff like Horns on Bobby Fosters- Building up for a let down on Sound Plus and production, writing and arrangement credits on the classic 'I don't know why I love you' by Ollie Nightingale on Memphis records. Bobby McNutt Funk Collectable that's a sought after track! Bobby McNutt was a male vocalist and original Young Disciple. Also released 'I'm Getting' Ready' for Roulette records post YODI as well having writing credits on a small string of releases in Chicago, most notably on USA records. His one and only release on YODI was recorded at Fame studios in Memphis. Third Flight From E. St Louis, Third flight comprised of Belgian Conrad (lead singer), Bobby Waters, Mike Leigh and a guy called 'Funny' obviously his nickname! They were said to be very influenced by the black militant movement of the time and as a teenage 'Gangster Group' they recorded just one single for YODI before their influence was deemed counter productive; 'Love, Love, Love' is very much a psychedelic soul sound of the late 60's with 'Third Flight' more of a driving funk track, very much influenced by George Clinton, Parliament and Funkadelic. Eddie Fisher, Dealth Merry & the Yodi Gang Without doubt the rarest of the Yodi releases. Allan Merry told me it never came out and in my conversations with collectors and members of the Young Disciples I have only come across one copy in the collection of Kurt Alt, although Sharon Clarke remembered it straight away; the track also shares a release number with the third Flight single. Eddie Fisher has been an established Jazz Guitar player for over a quarter of a century, and I'm told also owned his own recording studio, as well as being heavily involved with the local Jazz in St Louis regularly playing at the Blue Note Club. Allan remembered having some extra funds in the YODI coffers allowing them to record, according to him "this was the YODI teachers 'doing their thing!" Dealth was Allan's nickname from his college days. De De Turner De De was a male singer that came to Yodi via a famous football player who played for the Kansas City Chiefs. YODI at the time were trying to reach out to various areas looking for new singers and groups to record, reflected in their release 'Outside of Memphis' perhaps? The track was also cut on the west coast by Sonny Craver. Lavel Moore Very little is known about Lavel Moore, but I'm told he had his own group 'The Meditations' which was a baby group like Michael Jackson / Jackson Five. Lavel was the lead singer. His one and only release on YODI was recorded at Universal studios in Memphis. Ames Harris Dessert Waterbag Again I know very little about this release, but one item that every vehicle needed during the 1930s was a trusty waterbag. These were often seen dangling from the front bumper where they could be reached at anytime that water was needed should they overheat. The Desert Water bag was made by the Ames Harris Nevelle Company in San Francisco, who used the name Ames Harris, said to be the first Black Cowboy. Its fare to say this was another in house track featuring varied Young Disciples. The Georgettes One of many vocal groups to be formed from within the Young Disciples, After their YODI release Eddy Harris took them to Atlantic Records but they were told to come back after some work on their intonation. There seems to be a couple of releases by varied groups called the Georgettes, I'd assume they are not connected but who knows? Today In October 2005 the remaining members of the Young Disciples held a reunion in East St Louis. I can report that Gus Thornton is working on a new CD of Blues numbers which he is looking to complete, he's also scheduled to do some touring with Bo Diddly this coming September. Eddie Fisher is very prominent in St Louis and has just released an LP entitled "Eddie Fisher, the next hundred years" having weathered decades of changing styles in music. Sharon is still alive today and occasionally sings on the Jazz circuit, she is in regular contact with Allan Merry and Gus Thornton and we can only dream of the chance of her re-recording her YODI material. Mark is now a successful attorney living in Atlanta Georgia. As for Allan, he teaches Music at a Mill school in East St Louis and told me he would love to re-record some of the YODI material for future release. I must say one thing I did pick up from our conversation was his continuing belief in Young Disciples and what that stands for. As far as he's concerned after all these years, he's still teaching Young Disciples! And long may he continue. Written By Mal Collins, with special thanks to Allan Merry, Gus Thornton, Mark Swansa, for research on YODI, Kurt Alt for BIG help on the discography. Edited March 14, 2012 by Mal.C. 1
Guest Polyvelts Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Fascinating stuff and really interesting. Brilliant post Mal, thanks for sharing !
Sleeps45 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 love love love is a killer sweet soul cut! grimey! 1
Phild Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Tyrone Perry (later a member of Westmoreland & Co. on Emkay) started out in the Young Disciples who were the backing band on all the Yodi stuff. The Yodi organisation was set up by Alan Merry as a local youth project to keep East St. Louis kids off the street corners & out of trouble. Phillip Westmoreland (a guitar player who worked in the studio for Oliver Sain in late 60's / early 70's) put together a new band around 1972 in conjunction with Marcus Kelley (who had earlier cut for Bob Eagle's White Eagle label), calling it Westmoreland Company featuring Marcus Kelley. They were signed to CMC in St Louis and soon began working there with Kent Washburn ( the Hypnotic's, Charles Drain's producer) Kent completed a couple of tracks that Oliver Sain had started cutting on the group plus he laid down additional songs with a view to landing them a record deal. Another outfit that contributed to the tracks the group cut (providing backing vocals) was the Georgettes. These tracks all got lost in the mix at the time but eventually escaped on the only soul album released by Kent Washburn on his Emkay label (1979). The Georgettes also provided backing vocals on the brilliant previously unreleased Otis Williams tracks from the Emkay stable that I put out on Souyl Intention last year - https://www.soul-intention.co.uk/release.htm Phil
Billy Jo Jim Bob Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Always rated Daphine Williams 'I love you' as summat rather special. Released on a plain dark blue label though it's pretty hard to locate. derek DP I've had the Daphine Williams on both Dark Blue and Black labels. This info is just for us vinyl nerds Andy
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