Originals / Susipicion

[Guest Bri C]

I heard this being played at a night, last week, but didn't think to look at it , how is it played ? what label?

Bri

[Prophonics 2029]

Been done a few times Bri depends on what version was played.

[Dean]

Think it's often played on this, obviously the term OVO doesn't come into it.

Are there any vinyl copies of Brenda Holloway Lonely Boy out there? Love it on CD but never hear it out. Is there a "legit" way to play?

[Guest]

its on boot records aswell I should know I've got it lol

[davidwapples]

the boot records is speeded up a little and covered as the detroit prophets

[Phil Shields]

There's an acetate of Brenda's take on Lonely Boy think its Simon Hunt who owns it...lucky fella as its fab

[Smudger]

Right

This ones been bugging me for years,someone played me this track in probably late eighties and i just sang along to it so i already knew it? but where from i can't remember.The only thing i can think of is that i bought a Motown audio cassette legit issue (never saw it on vinyl though) and it was on that,there was also the instrumental of Marvin Gaye Lucky Lucky me (San Remo Strings ?)and a Martha Reeves track i used to really like, but can't remember for sure.

When was this track first played out and where and by who????? and was it ever issued on anything or done by someone else say on an album. I suppose it could have been on a tape swappers tape because i used to have loads.

[Autumnstoned]

Dave Withers 1982 tracks...

Originals - Suspicion aka Baby Have Mercy On Me (Prophets

The above is copied and pasted from one of Chalky's Stafford Podcast tracklistings. I assumed it was played from an unissued acetate. I first heard it on the This Is Northern Soul Debutante CD which came out about 1999/00.

Edited March 8, 2012 by autumnstoned

[Supercorsa]

I prefer the speeded up version under the Detroit Prophets moniker.

[Chalky]

We discussed this not too long ago. Basically Rob Klein and I think Tom Dieperro wer compiling the Motown from the Vaults LP series. One LP released but the project then canned. Robb taped many of the tracks they were going through.

Rod Shard when visiting Robb heard the tape and a copy duly found its way to the UK where Dave Withers had some acetates cut and began playing Suspicion and others (see my podcasts for details :-) ) at the beginning of Stafford. Richard Searling was given Tear From A Woman's Eye and Angel Doll by the Tempts and Lonely LOver, Marvin Gaye. Suspicion on the original Jobette acetate later fond its wqay out of Motown and then over here, but although I'm not 100% sure it could have been the slower take.There is a scan on here and Robb K did I think sy it wasn't the acetate he saw?

Other than CD, it has never had a legit vinyl release.

[Chalky]

I prefer the speeded up version under the Detroit Prophets moniker.

think that came about by accident as the tape player was playing fast.

[p0stscript]

We discussed this not too long ago. Basically Rob Klein and I think Tom Dieperro wer compiling the Motown from the Vaults LP series. One LP released but the project then canned. Robb taped many of the tracks they were going through. ....

It was pity that, I bought the first album when it came out and looked forward to others

[Chalky]

It was pity that, I bought the first album when it came out and looked forward to others

I still have it but I've not played it since I got it probably.

[TOAD]

think that came about by accident as the tape player was playing fast.

There where more on that tape that played fast

[p0stscript]

I still have it but I've not played it since I got it probably.

I have, two weeks ago (since becoming active on here I've started to play and catalogue my records to sort them) I'd forgotten what good tunes it had on.

[Robbk]

We discussed this not too long ago. Basically Rob(b) Klein and I think Tom Dieperro wer compiling the Motown from the Vaults LP series. One LP released but the project then canned. Robb taped many of the tracks they were going through.

Rod Shard when visiting Robb heard the tape and a copy duly found its way to the UK where Dave Withers had some acetates cut and began playing Suspicion and others (see my podcasts for details :-) ) at the beginning of Stafford. Richard Searling was given Tear From A Woman's Eye and Angel Doll by the Tempts and Lonely Lover, Marvin Gaye. Suspicion on the original Jobete acetate later fond its way out of Motown and then over here, but although I'm not 100% sure it could have been the slower take.There is a scan on here and Robb K did I think say it wasn't the acetate he saw?

Other than CD, it has never had a legit vinyl release.

These quotes are all correct and accurate, as to what happened.

There were multiple tapes of "Suspicion" in the Motown Vaults. The version of "Suspicion" that I played for Rod, and that he got on tape was from the Jobete Music Co. publishing rights reference acetate, with no group (artist) name listed. There were other acetates with other takes. There is generally always at least one Jobete Music and also one Motown Records Corp. reference acetate, and was often an acetate for each take or mix made (although many of those were destroyed or "lifted" years ago).

[Pete S]

there was also the instrumental of Marvin Gaye Lucky Lucky me (San Remo Strings ?)

Earl Van Dyke - All For You.

[Andybellwood]

its on boot records aswell I should know I've got it lol

stardust 45 ?

[Smudger]

Earl Van Dyke - All For You.

yep that's the one couldn't recall off hand who it was

thanks Pete

[Guest turntableterra]

These quotes are all correct and accurate, as to what happened.

There were multiple tapes of "Suspicion" in the Motown Vaults. The version of "Suspicion" that I played for Rod, and that he got on tape was from the Jobete Music Co. publishing rights reference acetate, with no group (artist) name listed. There were other acetates with other takes. There is generally always at least one Jobete Music and also one Motown Records Corp. reference acetate, and was often an acetate for each take or mix made (although many of those were destroyed or "lifted" years ago).

hi robb, you sound like a man who could help.

This has long been a ponderous thing for me as a record/motown collector. without fear of sounding ignorant, but i hear guys have acetates of this, that and the other, and indeed have a few of my own. so if we have a boot leg and then an original............what is an acetate, an original original? so what would the tape be. so for example i would be interested in understanding the following

1) would this tape of suspicion be very valuable, once copied to vy.

2) would the owner be allowed to play the FIRST acetate as an original

3) would the same apply to a tape of say the frankie beverley or any rare but released tune from any lable say rca or london, with darrell banks being a case in point.

4) what make of tapes did they use, i mean that the spool tapes we used as a kid had about an hour on them not sure of the make though. were agfa making tapes in those days, how would you date or determine the location of production (delta numbers etc on records)

a vyl junkie so i dont know any of this.

constructive answers would be most welcome

[Robbk]

1. The original Motown master tapes of Suspicion would be very valuable. Other Motown tapes of it would be valuable. I don't know what a second generation unauthorised tape of it would be worth.

2. I'm not a Brit, nor a member of The Northern Soul Scene, so I don't know the protocol for NS DJs. I assume that NS DJs could play a Motown reference acetate as an original.

3. As an outsider, I'm not the one to ask this question.

4. There were several makes of blank tape used by Motown. I don't remember seeing AGFA among them. I don't remember them operating in the '60s.

Determining the location of production is quite complicated, and where the vinyl/styrene records were pressed and mastered is what often can be discerned by reading pressing plant code numbers and mastering stamps. The delta numbers for Monarch pressing plant in Los Angeles, and the codes for the Columbia and RCA pressing plants are pretty straightforward in terms of referral to dates pressed. Those for many smaller plants are less clear. But one could write a book on that topic.

[Chalky]

The origianl acetate are often done in the studio are they not? A way to hear the recording as it will sound once pressed on vinyl.

The acetate which is the only original source found its way over here after it had been played and this record has always been played of home made acetates (vinyl carvers today).

Who owns the acetate that found it's way over here?

[Dazdakin]

Chris King owns the original acetate that found it's way over here........i believe, although when he plays it out it's never on that but mostly a carver of said recording.

I offered him silly money for it not so long ago and was given a very kind but firm shake of his head with a cheeky grin pasted all over his face.

[Deepdown]

I have a Spreadsheet of Motown Acetates that were done over the years, how complete it is I'm not to sure or how accurate, but I suppose it's worth throwing into the mix.

It shows listings of "Suspicion" as follows:

CCMN-0979-NHDD / (Acetate) / 1966-05-25 / Originals / Suspicion (Number of Copies 1) / 0199311

National Sound Corp / (Acetate) / No Date / Originals / Suspicion (Number of Copies 2) / Unreleased V

So it looks like that there were three Acetates made, according to the listing that I have.

I do know someone that used to have a Tape Master List as well, if he still has it I'm not to sure?