boba Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 Try to find an old turntable that has the option to spin 16rpm records as well. Probably would make it a lot easier. Good luck! I think manually rotating it is best probably
boba Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 The record on the green paper doesn't have enough glue on it. What you need is a consistent white covering. The record on the orange paper is much better, but still you have patches that need more glue. the reason the one on the green cloth looks like that because it's already started to dry so the edges are actually covered by a clear layer of glue instead of the undried white glue
Swifty Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I got the credit card out (actually it was a debit card, don't know if that makes a difference) Priceless !!
Mace Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I got the credit card out (actually it was a debit card, don't know if that makes a difference) Priceless !! Got to be a serious contender for thread of the year..... 2
p0stscript Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Got to be a serious contender for thread of the year..... I'll vote for it
Swifty Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I never read so much stuff about Glue , going to set my alarm early to catch the results !!
Guest SteveJohnston Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I got the credit card out (actually it was a debit card, don't know if that makes a difference) Priceless !! Debit card you apply glue as you spread credit apply later! Edited March 6, 2012 by SteveJohnston
Sleeps45 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Bob, why on earth did you do it on the turntable? You should have just placed the 45 on top of an old newspaper or something so that any drips, or residue spilling over the outer edge of the record just landed on the newspaper etc I probably wouldnt use a newspaper because it would probably stick to the record..cardboard would probably work better also a person can try masking off the slipmat with some plastic wrap to avoid the mess
Sleeps45 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 so yesterday I cleaned a 45 and it still played extremely crackly, despite not really being scratched up very much. The main reason was because it was almost 5 minutes long, which means it was pressed at a lower volume making the crackles overwhelm the music. However, it still looked clean enough to me that it should have been playing better. I decided to try the glue thing. I know this is not an ideal situation because it's probably scratches and the pressing and not dirt that's making it sound bad, but I can clean a 45 well enough that it's rare that it plays worse than it looks... so this is one of the best opportunities I could come up with I made a recording of the record after I cleaned it but before applying any glue. I only had the elmers glue-all (which is not the yellow wood glue that was recommended to me in the previous thread). I put the record on my turntable and squeezed the glue on, moving it from the inner deadwax to the outside slowly as it rotated. I then used a credit card to spread the glue all over the record and into the grooves. I couldn't keep the glue from going over the edge of the record but fortunately it didn't go farther into the deadwax and get to the label. I also found it was hard to apply the glue evenly, even if I put more glue on the record, so it clearly was thicker in some places than others (and you could see the black of the vinyl coming through some places but not othes). This is what it looked like last night after applying the glue: today the 45 is glued to the turntable mat, I have not tried to remove it or the glue from the record yet. What is annoying is that some of the drips of glue that are on the mat don't come off easily, I hope I can get the glue off the record. I'm just about to do try to remove the glue, will report back. I think the white elmers may be more runnier than the yellow wood glue..and the yellow glue is a bit more durable..have you tried the yellow wood glue? ive been wanting to give this a shot on some rare hammered 45s I got but I would hate to ruin the 45 more than it already is..good thread
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 You could tie a matchstick to the end of shoelace, feed the match through the centre hole of the record (maybe a cocktail stick or similar for imports) then tie the other end of the shoe lace to anything that will then leave the record suspended, then any overspill should just drip off the edge of the record, preferably onto the aforementioned newspaper, not your best axminster Let us know if it works
Pomonkey Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Boba said: One thing I like to do is count the number of grooves in each record Sounds fun I agree, but most of mine have one (continuous) groove on each side so you should find it doesn't actually take that long...... Edited March 6, 2012 by pomonkey 1
KevH Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 The record on the green paper doesn't have enough glue on it. What you need is a consistent white covering. The record on the orange paper is much better, but still you have patches that need more glue. Here's the photo I uploaded in the other thread. You'll see that the application of glue is consistent across the playing surface. Note that the British UA 45 on the left does not have enough glue on it. And, after taking this picture, I applied more. Note that all these were done by hand - no turntable needed! By hand? No toothbrush involvement Russell.? Impressive.(and yes,the best thread of 2012).
boba Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 I think the white elmers may be more runnier than the yellow wood glue..and the yellow glue is a bit more durable..have you tried the yellow wood glue? ive been wanting to give this a shot on some rare hammered 45s I got but I would hate to ruin the 45 more than it already is..good thread runnier is better, it means there's less surface tension and will penetrate the grooves more. Although with the toothbrush maybe it's being pushed into the grooves already, I'm not sure. Plus there already has been some warnings in this thread about wood glue. If this works, next step: STYRENE
boba Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 You could tie a matchstick to the end of shoelace, feed the match through the centre hole of the record (maybe a cocktail stick or similar for imports) then tie the other end of the shoe lace to anything that will then leave the record suspended, then any overspill should just drip off the edge of the record, preferably onto the aforementioned newspaper, not your best axminster Let us know if it works what exactly is the role of the matchstick in this process?
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) what exactly is the role of the matchstick in this process? Bob it will go through the centre hole vertically, so to speak, then when through the hole it can be placed across the label on the other side thus taking the weight of the record, Or even use something a bit more rigid fed through from the other side, Edited March 6, 2012 by Pete60
Guest MrC Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) what exactly is the role of the matchstick in this process? to act as a sort of support ¦ < string ¦ ¦ ¦ -¦------------ < 45 -¦--- < matchstick/cocktail stick which would be pulled up so it was bridging the centre hole from underneath Edited March 6, 2012 by MrC
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 to act as a sort of support ¦ < string ¦ ¦ ¦ -¦------------ < 45 -¦--- < matchstick/cocktail stick which would be pulled up so it was bridging the centre hole from underneath Or just thread the string through with nothing on the end then tie it to whatever works
Ian Dewhirst Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Jesus. You guys are actually serious about all this............ Ian D
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Jesus. You guys are actually serious about all this............ Ian D Not really Ian, you've been darn sarf too long lol
Pomonkey Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Viz could do a whole issue of Top Tips based on this thread alone! 1
KevH Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 to act as a sort of support ¦ < string ¦ ¦ ¦ -¦------------ < 45 -¦--- < matchstick/cocktail stick which would be pulled up so it was bridging the centre hole from underneath Which brand of matchstick would you recommend? Swan Vesta?
Sleeps45 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 ok, so now I'm done with the exciting second glue application. I put down two pieces of 8x10 paper perpendicular to each other on the turntable (covering up pretty much the whole mat), put the adapter on top of them, and put the mighty ryeders record on top. I started the turntable rotating at 45, started applying the glue up and down the grooves. First it was going pretty smooth, I didn't get any near the inner deadwax or spilling over the edge. I then put the toothbrush down on the grooves. It made lots of little lines in the grooves and it became clear that I couldn't leave it it like that because the glue wouldn't be one contiguous sheet. I started applying more glue and moving the brush up and down at the same time and it wasn't making a sheet of glue ... I was sort of panicking, and then I got glue in the inner grooves and onto the label. At that point I stopped the turntable and cleaned off the label and the deadwax with a cloth. I turned on the turntable again and sort of repeated the process (and some spillover was starting to happen) and it became clear that I needed all the glue to connect, so I stopped using the toothbrush. I got the credit card out (actually it was a debit card, don't know if that makes a difference) poured more glue on the record, and started to smooth it out with the card. I eventually got the record coated in glue. There was a little bit of spillover off the edges onto the paper. The paper gave me the advantage of being able to remove the record from the turntable to somewhere else. I then removed the record off the paper and put it on another piece of paper. It stuck to the paper because of the spillover (I noticed glue fingerprints at the bottom from my handling of the record). I put it on another piece of paper trying to get more glue off the bottom. After I got as much off as I could, I moved the record to a microfiber cloth to dry (because I don't want it to dry with paper stuck to it -- it should be easier to remove the cloth later in one piece than a bunch of paper glued onto the record). The second record glueing went much more smoothly. I made an initial recording of the record, which was after I already had cleaned it with my regular cleaning method which usually gets records looking and playing very clean. The record just looked slightly scuffy and it wasn't clear what all the noise was coming from. I put down paper onto the plastic mat, then put the adapter and record on it. I turned on the turntable and applied glue up and down the record so it covered most of it. I then spread the glue across the record with the card so it was in one sheet. Then I turned off the turntable and manually used the brush to scrub the glue into the grooves, rotating the platter manually until I was satisfied that I got the whole thing and all grooves. At that point there were a bunch of thin, unconnected lines on the 45. I turned it back on, poured more glue on it, and used the card again to turn the glue into one sheet. I managed to avoid both spillover and glue near the deadwax. I turned the turntable off and picked up the paper off the turntable with the record. I transferred the record to another piece of paper to soak up any spillover (I don't think there was any). I then transferred it to a cloth to dry overnight. Here are the records drying (I tried to color coordinate the cloths and labels as best I could): I will report back after the glue dries and I peel it off (I will save the peeled off glue and take a photo of it). For the mighty ryeders it looks like I will have to clean off glue from the other side again which is annoying. When handling the record, I guess you have to be very careful to only use your fingernails and only touch the edge of the record so you don't get glue fingerprints on the bottom, unglued side. In the morning after it dries, I will peel off and clean off any glue and make recordings to see what happened. I'm hopeful that the new record will sound much better (if not both -- the ryeders 45 probably will not play better because the noise is probably due to scratches and the low volume of the record). seems like a person needs to be a little crafty to do this right..someone with no kind of craft skills will probably make a huge mess and there will probably be glue everywhere..probably takes a few test runs to float the glue on perfectly
Guest MrC Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Which brand of matchstick would you recommend? Swan Vesta? Well yes, they would haqve to be some kind of pipe smokers match, longer and slightly thicker. You could even tie a few together for greater strength maybe Do we have any structural engineers on the site, they could provide valuable insights into load balancing ratios and PSI breaking points of the various materials that could be found in the 'Screwfix' catalogue. :lol:
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Which brand of matchstick would you recommend? Swan Vesta? Kev this is my baby, thanks, any matchstick should be ok, probably a used one would be a safer choice
Guest MrC Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Viz could do a whole issue of Top Tips based on this thread alone! You need to see my original unhijacked thread for that! Pete, wasn't trying to steal you match idea, just providing illustrations. Cheers
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 You need to see my original unhijacked thread for that! Pete, wasn't trying to steal you match idea, just providing illustrations. Cheers And very well done too MrC
Guest smudgesmith Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Kev this is my baby, thanks, any matchstick should be ok, probably a used one would be a safer choice Ah......a safety match then?
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Ah......a safety match then? No, a spent match, or more than one,
Guest MrC Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Ah......a safety match then? While we're on the safety issue, remember most substances can be hazardous if not used correctly kids.
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 While we're on the safety issue, remember most substances can be hazardous if not used correctly kids. Agreed, being up to speed on the latest C.O.S.H.H. regs is strongly advised 1
Guest Matt Male Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 How about latex? You can buy liquid latex, spread it over the vinyl and then once dry peel in off. It won't break up like wood glue and shouldn't leave any residue. Just a thought, don't blame me when you ruin your £1k records...
pikeys dog Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 How about latex? You can buy liquid latex, spread it over the vinyl and then once dry peel in off. It won't break up like wood glue and shouldn't leave any residue. Just a thought, don't blame me when you ruin your £1k records... Boba got the wrong end of the (match)stick when reading Matt Males suggestion.... "I don't understand how this will help spread the glue more evenly?"
Godzilla Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 to act as a sort of support ¦ < string ¦ ¦ ¦ -¦------------ < 45 -¦--- < matchstick/cocktail stick which would be pulled up so it was bridging the centre hole from underneath Alternatively you could just place them on cardboard to apply the glue then stick 'em over the neck of bottles. (red wine in my case). That way you can clean off any glue that's dripped onto the edge with a damp cloth and if there's further...errr.. drippage, there's nothing for it to stick to as it's suspended in mid air. For small hole UK 45s I have a specially adapted wine bottle with a bit of doweling stuck through the cork and a 45rpm spider adaptor cunningly fixed half way up. Genius eh? 2
MrsWoodsrules Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Well I did a tester at the weekend & it worked a treat, will certainly be doing some more. Pure genius whoever came up with this. Aid
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Alternatively you could just place them on cardboard to apply the glue then stick 'em over the neck of bottles. (red wine in my case). That way you can clean off any glue that's dripped onto the edge with a damp cloth and if there's further...errr.. drippage, there's nothing for it to stick to as it's suspended in mid air. For small hole UK 45s I have a specially adapted wine bottle with a bit of doweling stuck through the cork and a 45rpm spider adaptor cunningly fixed half way up. Genius eh? Very good Godz, but I'm claiming the patent for the 'suspended in mid air' theory, you have just elaborated on that idea, so no, hardly genius mate
p0stscript Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Best thread ever absolutely brilliant, glued to every word. Edited March 6, 2012 by p0stscript
Amsterdam Russ Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 runnier is better, it means there's less surface tension and will penetrate the grooves more. Although with the toothbrush maybe it's being pushed into the grooves already, I'm not sure. Plus there already has been some warnings in this thread about wood glue. If this works, next step: STYRENE It works on styrene equally well...
Modernsoulsucks Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I may have to close this if members dont stick to the topic and adhere to site rules. It is a perfectly legitimate enquiry and not to be sniffed at. Thank you ROD [forum moderator] 2
Cunnie Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 As a fan of Modern Soul there is a very important question I need to ask. Does the glue method work on a CD?
p0stscript Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I may have to close this if members dont stick to the topic and adhere to site rules. It is a perfectly legitimate enquiry and not to be sniffed at. Thank you ROD [forum moderator] and to think I almost missed that in fact I've picked up some good tips so I hope we will stick with this thread for a bit. Edited March 6, 2012 by p0stscript
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 As a fan of Modern Soul there is a very important question I need to ask. Does the glue method work on a CD? No you just sling them int bin
Godzilla Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Very good Godz, but I'm claiming the patent for the 'suspended in mid air' theory, you have just elaborated on that idea, so no, hardly genius mate Sorry Pete. You're talking about an idea (and a rubbish one at that...) I'm explaining how I actually do it. Anyway, I'm out of here. You and Rod can stick your (e)poxy topic. Edited March 6, 2012 by Godzilla 1
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Sorry Pete. You're talking about an idea (and a rubbish one at that...) I'm explaining how I actually do it. Anyway, I'm out of here. You and Rod can stick your (e)poxy topic. Don't go Godz, get a grip
p0stscript Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Don't go Godz, get a grip yes it will all become clear after a while.
Pete Eccles Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 yes it will all become clear after a while. Yea it's not hard (yet)
Youyou Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Hello, This whole thread got me so hyped up that I just put a bit of mud on a record to try out this wood glue cleaning method But seriously, I am really, really happy about it, because although I like the sound of vinyl, I'd still be happy to remove some crackles and hissing sound. Boba, thanks a lot for your test!!! Take care YouYou
Godzilla Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Yea it's not hard (yet) Pete, although I feel we're bonding now, it's all getting a bit tacky isn't it? My worry is that if we become to attached to this topic we're gonna get a pasting from the mods. 1
KevH Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Very good Godz, but I'm claiming the patent for the 'suspended in mid air' theory, you have just elaborated on that idea, so no, hardly genius mate Not caught up with all the thread,but are you still talking about Bob's Glue Theory?
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