Are There Too Many Venues?

[Guest]

Just had a look at the nighter listing for 2006, to plan the year.

Is it me or are there more than ever.

This is a good sign because it means promoters are confident but I cannot help wondering if we will see the same number in 2007.

I have noticed a drop off in attendance at soul nights and nighters as this year has gone on and if this trend continues some of the venues will not be viable.

There are only so many of us to go around and when you have 2 or 3 nighters on the same night we cannot be everywhere.

The pressure of money, keeping partners happy etc takes its toll on most of us as it is without trying to fit more nights in ( much as we would like to ) so maybe we will pick and choose a bit more or stay closer to home.

Usually greater choice is a good thing but in a scene like ours is it sensible?

[Guest]

5-6 years ago nearly every venue I went to up and down the country was packed, but seems that people are trying to offer something different all the time and IMO it's watering the scene down, as you say too many venues, unfortunatly I still don't have much on my door step at a push 2-3 venues worth going to and even those are 1-2 hour's drive (add another 3+ hours for getting lost LOL)

[Winsford Soul]

Just had a look at the nighter listing for 2006, to plan the year.

Is it me or are there more than ever.

This is a good sign because it means promoters are confident but I cannot help wondering if we will see the same number in 2007.

I have noticed a drop off in attendance at soul nights and nighters as this year has gone on and if this trend continues some of the venues will not be viable.

There are only so many of us to go around and when you have 2 or 3 nighters on the same night we cannot be everywhere.

The pressure of money, keeping partners happy etc takes its toll on most of us as it is without trying to fit more nights in ( much as we would like to ) so maybe we will pick and choose a bit more or stay closer to home.

Usually greater choice is a good thing but in a scene like ours is it sensible?

Well put that man. I dont know what is going to be happening to Winsford in 2007. We have Booked and Confirmed for next year but i,ve heard that Cheshire County Council are reducing the number of Civic Centres in the County and that Winsford has been earmarked for closure and demolition to make way for devolpment of the Town Centre. But there is also the Ban Smoking lobby How is that going to affect our scene.? Chris has already had to pull out of the Stoke Nighters because of the owners Policy towards smoking. Who next ?

Steve

[Quinvy]

Well put that man. I dont know what is going to be happening to Winsford in 2007. We have Booked and Confirmed for next year but i,ve heard that Cheshire County Council are reducing the number of Civic Centres in the County and that Winsford has been earmarked for closure and demolition to make way for devolpment of the Town Centre. But there is also the Ban Smoking lobby How is that going to affect our scene.? Chris has already had to pull out of the Stoke Nighters because of the owners Policy towards smoking. Who next ?

Steve

Sorry Steve, but personally, I can't wait for a ban on smoking in all public places. The fact is that if this government weren't such a set of spineless t***ers, it would already be in place. Bring it on. cough, cough.

[Winnie :-)]

Sorry Steve, but personally, I can't wait for a ban on smoking in all public places. The fact is that if this government weren't such a set of spineless t***ers, it would already be in place. Bring it on. cough, cough.

==========

Quite happy for them to ban smoking (I'm a smoker) if they also ban alcohol

I do think the amount of venues seems to be increasing, but IMO that is mainly because people don't want to travel. All the local promoters are doing is providing a service IMO, I agree it waters down the scene, but promotion is punter driven after all.

Winnie:-)

[Guest Soultown andy]

The good well run venues will survive the bad one,s wont

[Iancsloft]

The good well run venues will survive the bad one,s wont

==================================================================

They wont if they knock them down

[Guest 50box]

Just had a look at the nighter listing for 2006, to plan the year.

Is it me or are there more than ever.

Usually greater choice is a good thing but in a scene like ours is it sensible?

I blame disco`s, 1 is too many.

[Soulsmith]

Sorry Steve, but personally, I can't wait for a ban on smoking in all public places. The fact is that if this government weren't such a set of spineless t***ers, it would already be in place. Bring it on. cough, cough.

Totally with you. Ban smoking & the smokers will regain their sense of smell & the rest of us won't smell like ash-trays.

[Guest rachel]

Yep there's a lot on, but I can't be alone in finding that despite the number of nights I've rarely had to choose between two similar events I desperately want to go to on the same night... can't see that changing from next year's listings either. There's usually one that stands out for me for music policy/ DJs. And yep that does sometimes mean choosing to go to a couple of 'good' (IMO) nights a month rather than a venue every weekend.

I don't believe that everything that's running at the moment can keep going, it'll be the ones that 'stand out' for most people, and that people are happy to make the effort to go to, that survive

[Guest miff]

Totally with you. Ban smoking & the smokers will regain their sense of smell & the rest of us won't smell like ash-trays.

Why do the anti smoking lobby want to ban smoking from everywhere ?

Answer Because its bad for there health and they dont choose to smoke

Well people So is Alcahol, Drugs, Loud music, Sleep depravation, Crap food, and the cars we use to transport our selves to all the venues we attend

Will you all be happy when all the things are baned that are bad for us and where is that going to lead reguarding soul nights as at every venue we attend someone is doing or done one of the above mentiond

Remember Smokers dont smoke to upset you we are drug addits hooked on nicotine Banning smoking will not cure us just criminalise us. I want to stop and I keep trying not sucseeded yet but i will one day

As a foot note Obesaty Kills more and costs the NHS more then smoking related dissise When are we going to ban Food

[Maria O]

==========

Quite happy for them to ban smoking (I'm a smoker) if they also ban alcohol

Yeah, but nobody forces the alcohol down your throat . They banned smoking in many venues back home in Sydney years ago, and us asthmatics breathed a sigh of relief . Now here, I've got a puffer again for "bad" weekends and the eyes and throat play up in a smoky venue again too. Most of my friends are smokers, so I'm not preaching - but it's no fun when it makes you ill but you haven't got a choice in partaking (a bit like going to niters really ).

As for the many venues Fenman - I actually enjoy lots of soul variety. Whilst there are certain styles I'd never miss (like RnB), I travel and taste more than my fair share of soul venues and weekenders because I like it that way (did it there and do it here). But that means I can't support many regularly - sadly, some of the better nights don't necessarily survive. Anyway, what one person may consider "bad", might actually be extremely popular, so musical tastes drive new promoters too I guess. Also seems pounding promotion is sometimes needed for keeping numbers too .

For me, word-of-mouth from certain people is what I trust most for a recommendation or warning, coz the nice people always tell the truth!

m

[Steve L]

==========

Quite happy for them to ban smoking (I'm a smoker) if they also ban alcohol

I do think the amount of venues seems to be increasing, but IMO that is mainly because people don't want to travel. All the local promoters are doing is providing a service IMO, I agree it waters down the scene, but promotion is punter driven after all.

Winnie:-)

Winnie If I were stood next to you at the bar at my local soul night, would I be forcing my beer down your throat? No? I didnt think so

[Mike]

on smoking at venues

when been to Dublin events where they do have the "100% no smoking" policy, found it meself not really that much hassle, was sort of like a outside record room if know what i mean

any current uk venues have policy in effect ?

[jonbuck]

Just had a look at the nighter listing for 2006, to plan the year. Is it me or are there more than ever.

Edited December 6, 2005 by jonbuck

[Reg]

on smoking at venues

when been to Dublin events where they do have the "100% no smoking" policy, found it meself not really that much hassle, was sort of like a outside record room if know what i mean

any current uk venues have policy in effect ?

I know the Union club introduced a no smoking policy so Mick H changed the venue-which was a shame cos I really liked that venue. Plus, looking at what Chris W has said on here about them not using the Stoke venue any more for the same reason, I doubt that any soul event would chance a 100% no smoking policy. I'm afraid that this would have to be forced on us by a government who can make a proper decision...and I'm not holding my asthmatic breath...(I'm saving my lung energy for smoky venues..pass the inhaler )

Edited December 6, 2005 by Reg

[Winsford Soul]

Sorry Steve, but personally, I can't wait for a ban on smoking in all public places. The fact is that if this government weren't such a set of spineless t***ers, it would already be in place. Bring it on. cough, cough.

I,m a smoker but if smoking was that bad the Goverment would outlaw Tobacco full stop. But because they are a bunch of spineless so and so,s AND they get Millions from the Tax on it they will never make it illegal so why ban it from public places ? yes i have sympathy for non smokers but it is there choice to go to these venues.

Steve

[pikeys dog]

I know the Union club introduced a no smoking policy so Mick H changed the venue-which was a shame cos I really liked that venue. Plus, looking at what Chris W has said on here about them not using the Stoke venue any more for the same reason, I doubt that any soul event would chance a 100% no smoking policy. I'm afraid that this would have to be forced on us by a government who can make a proper decision...and I'm not holding my asthmatic breath...(I'm saving my lung energy for smoky venues..pass the inhaler )

The Union club had a no smoking policy for a while - i think it was the fact that the management were a little zealous in sticking to the policy - checking the ladies for crafty puffers - that made Mick H change venues?

I'm sure Chalky will be able to confirm this.

[Guest ShaneH]

The Union club had a no smoking policy for a while - i think it was the fact that the management were a little zealous in sticking to the policy - checking the ladies for crafty puffers - that made Mick H change venues?

I'm sure Chalky will be able to confirm this.

thats exactly what i heard. the venue manager/owner was checking the ladies toilets on a regular basis.

Shane

[Reg]

I,m a smoker but if smoking was that bad the Goverment would outlaw Tobacco full stop. But because they are a bunch of spineless so and so,s AND they get Millions from the Tax on it they will never make it illegal so why ban it from public places ? yes i have sympathy for non smokers but it is there choice to go to these venues.

Steve

Yes you are correct I should sit at home or perhaps spend my weekends in Ireland as,obviously, it is my choice NOT to smoke

[Winsford Soul]

Yes you are correct I should sit at home or perhaps spend my weekends in Ireland as,obviously, it is my choice NOT to smoke

Like it Reg. But this arguement is going to run and run unless it runs out of puff so we will all have to agree to disagree with each other Think we are going off topic slightly. them nasty Mods will move the thread otherwise. Sorry chaps.

Steve

Edited December 6, 2005 by winsford soul

[Guest ShaneH]

Like it Reg. But this arguement is going to run and run unless it runs out of puff so we will all have to agree to disagree with each other Think we are going off topic slightly. them nasty Mods will move the thread otherwise. Sorry chaps.

Steve

no problem. its all venue related.

i am an occassional smoker but wouldnt mind one bit if they banned it. i have been to San Francisco and had to deal with it over there. however, it may work better over there cos you dont mind standing outside a venue considering the warmer climate but january in Manchester is a different story

the smoking ban is inevitable. just a matter of time now.

Shane

[Winsford Soul]

no problem. its all venue related.

i am an occassional smoker but wouldnt mind one bit if they banned it. i have been to San Francisco and had to deal with it over there. however, it may work better over there cos you dont mind standing outside a venue considering the warmer climate but january in Manchester is a different story

the smoking ban is inevitable. just a matter of time now.

Shane

You,re right Shane it is just a matter of time till i,m standing outside having a smoke unless another Sheridans type club comes along ie private venue thats owned and run by Soulies that smoke.

Steve

[jonbuck]

You,re right Shane it is just a matter of time till i,m standing outside having a smoke unless another Sheridans type club comes along ie private venue thats owned and run by Soulies that smoke.Steve

So has the thread Changed from Are There Too Many Venues? to What is your Views about Smoking & Non Smoking ????

JB

[Guest ShaneH]

So has the thread Changed from Are There Too Many Venues? to What is your Views about Smoking & Non Smoking ????

JB

have you asked yourself why you care too much or is it just a dig?

the main man, Mike, asked the question and i think the least we can do is reply accordingly.

can't f****** win sometimes

Shane

[pikeys dog]

have you asked yourself why you care too much or is it just a dig?

the main man, Mike, asked the question and i think the least we can do is reply accordingly.

can't f****** win sometimes

Shane

calm down poof pants.

[jonbuck]

have you asked yourself why you care too much or is it just a dig?the main man, Mike, asked the question and i think the least we can do is reply accordingly.can't f****** win sometimes Shane

What are you a YES MAN it doesn't really matter who asked it, It is off course from Original Thread

JB

Edited December 6, 2005 by jonbuck

[Guest ShaneH]

What are you a YES MAN it doesn't really matter who asked it, It is off course from Original Thread

JB

jon, some threads do go off-topic and i think it is best to let them just run.

the type of off-topic stuff that needs to be moderated is when people start chatting about what they have had for their breakfast etc.

the thread is still of interest and will revert back to the original topic accordingly i am sure.

sorry for flying off.

Shane

ps. yes i am a yes man

[Guest Bearsoul]

on smoking at venues

when been to Dublin events where they do have the "100% no smoking" policy, found it meself not really that much hassle, was sort of like a outside record room if know what i mean

any current uk venues have policy in effect ?

I played Leeside Soul in Cork the other weekend and no one seemed bothered about going outside in the freezing cold to smoke...It was great to be able to see across the room and no one complained ..it was a breath of fresh air (intermittent smoker that i am, i didn't miss it one bit) I hope it is introduced. It's the same in New York and it works there . I went to see Betty Lavette at Joe's Pub in the East Village, it used to be a smoky Supper Club.....No good for Perfomers..i think you'll agree...it was a great night and you could see everything clearly and it gets pretty packed at the bar so there was no-one reaching over you to stub out cigarettes or decorating you with ash. Hey i may of just talked myself out of smoking...didn't realise how offensive it is.....plus don't we pay enough tax???

CHRIS M

[steve z]

I played Leeside Soul in Cork the other weekend and no one seemed bothered about going outside in the freezing cold to smoke...It was great to be able to see across the room and no one complained ..it was a breath of fresh air (intermittent smoker that i am, i didn't miss it one bit) I hope it is introduced. It's the same in New York and it works there . I went to see Betty Lavette at Joe's Pub in the East Village, it used to be a smoky Supper Club.....No good for Perfomers..i think you'll agree...it was a great night and you could see everything clearly and it gets pretty packed at the bar so there was no-one reaching over you to stub out cigarettes or decorating you with ash. Hey i may of just talked myself out of smoking...didn't realise how offensive it is.....plus don't we pay enough tax???

CHRIS M

Hi Chris,hope you had a good time

How's about a winters night at the Greatstone when Adrian throws a great big slab of Tree Trunk on the smouldering embers of the grated open fire The amount of smoke that lifts off the fire and then rolls along the ceiling.......soon dissapates tho' ATB Stevie

[Quinvy]

Just had a look at the nighter listing for 2006, to plan the year.

Is it me or are there more than ever.

This is a good sign because it means promoters are confident but I cannot help wondering if we will see the same number in 2007.

I have noticed a drop off in attendance at soul nights and nighters as this year has gone on and if this trend continues some of the venues will not be viable.

There are only so many of us to go around and when you have 2 or 3 nighters on the same night we cannot be everywhere.

The pressure of money, keeping partners happy etc takes its toll on most of us as it is without trying to fit more nights in ( much as we would like to ) so maybe we will pick and choose a bit more or stay closer to home.

Usually greater choice is a good thing but in a scene like ours is it sensible?

Yes, there are too many venues. Too many venues and not enough punters = some will not survive. I just hope that mine isn't one of them.

[Mandy]

The only reason I think there are too many venues is cos I can't get to most of them due to family commitments Before the lad I used to go somewhere every weekend, now I have to be choosey and must admit that DJs/policy is a real pull for me and I always make sure I have a good night.

Mr Buck's comments about new venues being run by people who were only punters last year .... what difference does it make who is running them .... if it's a good place and good tunes etc who cares who runs it. I find most "ex-punters" are in it for the pure enjoyment not financial/egotistical pleasure (not having a go at you before you think I am )

[Guest Bearsoul]

Hi Chris,hope you had a good time

How's about a winters night at the Greatstone when Adrian throws a great big slab of Tree Trunk on the smouldering embers of the grated open fire The amount of smoke that lifts off the fire and then rolls along the ceiling.......soon dissapates tho' ATB Stevie

SOUNDS LIKE A YULE-TIDE LOG TYPE OF THING SMASHEE?

TOP TIME IN CORK MR Z...TELL U ALL ABOUT IT ON 17TH

BE EARLY THOUGH IF YOU WANT TO CATCH ALL MY TOP

YULETIDE COVER-UPS......COULD BE A PRIZE IF ANYONE

CAN GUESS!!!! YO BLOODY HO ..BCWB..WITH BELLS ON

[Guest rachel]

Hi Chris,hope you had a good time

How's about a winters night at the Greatstone when Adrian throws a great big slab of Tree Trunk on the smouldering embers of the grated open fire The amount of smoke that lifts off the fire and then rolls along the ceiling.......soon dissapates tho' ATB Stevie

Even better when they put all the flyers on

[Guest Bearsoul]

The only reason I think there are too many venues is cos I can't get to most of them due to family commitments Before the lad I used to go somewhere every weekend, now I have to be choosey and must admit that DJs/policy is a real pull for me and I always make sure I have a good night.

Mr Buck's comments about new venues being run by people who were only punters last year .... what difference does it make who is running them .... if it's a good place and good tunes etc who cares who runs it. I find most "ex-punters" are in it for the pure enjoyment not financial/egotistical pleasure (not having a go at you before you think I am )

HAVE A GO MANDY..IT'S A FORUM FOR FREE Expression ISN'T IT????

I FIND THE INFERENCE THAT PUNTERS ARE SOMEHOW INFERIOR SUB-HUMANS WHO SHOULD STAND IN LINE FOR THE SAME OLD HELPING OF WHATEVER.....?..ABSURD IN THE EXTREME. IS THE OLD BOYS CLUB ANGRY AT THE SHEER AFFRONTERY OF A FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY DECIDING THEY WANT SOMETHING ELSE. THIS SCENE IS BASED ON , NAY BUILT ON' THE HOPES AND DREAMS OF MANY MANY BLACK AMERICAN ARTISTS FROM THE BACKROOM BOYS TO THE GUYS AND GIRLS PLEADING AND SINGING THERE HEARTS OUT HOPING THAT MAYBE THIS WILL BE THEIR LUCKY BREAK. SADLY MOST OF THOSE DREAMS WERE DASHED YET YEARS LATER WE PICK UP THE STORY AND LOVE AND CHERISH THIS FABULOUS MUSIC. MANY OF THESE ARTISTS ARE DEAD AND MOST NEVER FULLFILLED THOSE DREAMS OR RECEIVED ANY RECOMPENSE FOR THEIR EFFORTS AND WE'RE ALL BICKERING ABOUT A SHARE OF THE SPOILS..B********KS!!! THE ADJECTIVE 'PUNTERS' IS EVEN USED AS A PERJORATIVE THESE 'PUNTERS' ARE NOT SOME MINDLESS MASS BUT THE SOUL-MUSIC FANS WHO HAVE GIVEN MANY OF THESE DJs THE STATUS THEY'VE ENJOYED AND STILL CRAVE...IT'S ABOUT THE MUSIC...SURELY?????? (THREAD HERE PERHAPS} PERHAPS ALL THOSE WHO FEEL THREATENED SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND FORM 'THE IVORY TOWER SOUL CLUB' AND KEEP IT REALLY EXCLUSIVE IT'S THEIR DISSMISSIVE ATTITUDE THAT IS TURNING FOLKS OFF......HOW ABOUT A BIG SIGN ON THE DOOR.....'NO PUNTERS, HAWKERS, IRISH OR BLACKS'

CHRIS M (RETREATING BEHIND BATTLEMENTS....ACTUALLY IT'S BATH NIGHT..BYE!!!) ..

..

Edited December 6, 2005 by bearsoul

[Guest Bearsoul]

Even better when they put all the flyers on

I'M BRINGING LOADS FOR THE FIRE....MR CATO LEFT THEM HERE AND I'VE NO FIRE SO SHOULD WARM YOUR TOES ON THE 17TH. (JUST KIDDING MR CATO..OR AM I) BCWB

[Mandy]

HAVE A GO MANDY..IT'S A FORUM FOR FREE Expression ISN'T IT????

I FIND THE INFERENCE THAT PUNTERS ARE SOMEHOW INFERIOR SUB-HUMANS WHO SHOULD STAND IN LINE FOR THE SAME OLD HELPING OF WHATEVER.....?..ABSURD IN THE EXTREME. IS THE OLD BOYS CLUB ANGRY AT THE SHEER AFFRONTERY OF A FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY DECIDING THEY WANT SOMETHING ELSE. THIS SCENE IS BASED ON , NAY BUILT ON' THE HOPES AND DREAMS OF MANY MANY BLACK AMERICAN ARTISTS FROM THE BACKROOM BOYS TO THE GUYS AND GIRLS PLEADING AND SINGING THERE HEARTS OUT HOPING THAT MAYBE THIS WILL BE THEIR LUCKY BREAK. SADLY MOST OF THOSE DREAMS WERE DASHED YET YEARS LATER WE PICK UP THE STORY AND LOVE AND CHERISH THIS FABULOUS MUSIC. MANY OF THESE ARTISTS ARE DEAD AND MOST NEVER FULLFILLED THOSE DREAMS OR RECEIVED ANY RECOMPENSE FOR THEIR EFFORTS AND WE'RE ALL BICKERING ABOUT A SHARE OF THE SPOILS..B********KS!!! THE ADJECTIVE 'PUNTERS' IS EVEN USED AS A PERJORATIVE THESE 'PUNTERS' ARE NOT SOME MINDLESS MASS BUT THE SOUL-MUSIC FANS WHO HAVE GIVEN MANY OF THESE DJs THE STATUS THEY'VE ENJOYED AND STILL CRAVE...IT'S ABOUT THE MUSIC...SURELY?????? (THREAD HERE PERHAPS} PERHAPS ALL THOSE WHO FEEL THREATENED SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND FORM 'THE IVORY TOWER SOUL CLUB' AND KEEP IT REALLY EXCLUSIVE IT'S THEIR DISSMISSIVE ATTITUDE THAT IS TURNING FOLKS OFF......HOW ABOUT A BIG SIGN ON THE DOOR.....'NO PUNTERS, HAWKERS, IRISH OR BLACKS'

CHRIS M (RETREATING BEHIND BATTLEMENTS....ACTUALLY IT'S BATH NIGHT..BYE!!!) ..

..

Bloody Hell Mr Bear, couldn't have put it better myself .... well done that man

[Dave Moore]

HAVE A GO MANDY..IT'S A FORUM FOR FREE Expression ISN'T IT????

I FIND THE INFERENCE THAT PUNTERS ARE SOMEHOW INFERIOR SUB-HUMANS WHO SHOULD STAND IN LINE FOR THE SAME OLD HELPING OF WHATEVER.....?..ABSURD IN THE EXTREME. IS THE OLD BOYS CLUB ANGRY AT THE SHEER AFFRONTERY OF A FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY DECIDING THEY WANT SOMETHING ELSE. THIS SCENE IS BASED ON , NAY BUILT ON' THE HOPES AND DREAMS OF MANY MANY BLACK AMERICAN ARTISTS FROM THE BACKROOM BOYS TO THE GUYS AND GIRLS PLEADING AND SINGING THERE HEARTS OUT HOPING THAT MAYBE THIS WILL BE THEIR LUCKY BREAK. SADLY MOST OF THOSE DREAMS WERE DASHED YET YEARS LATER WE PICK UP THE STORY AND LOVE AND CHERISH THIS FABULOUS MUSIC. MANY OF THESE ARTISTS ARE DEAD AND MOST NEVER FULLFILLED THOSE DREAMS OR RECEIVED ANY RECOMPENSE FOR THEIR EFFORTS AND WE'RE ALL BICKERING ABOUT A SHARE OF THE SPOILS..B********KS!!! THE ADJECTIVE 'PUNTERS' IS EVEN USED AS A PERJORATIVE THESE 'PUNTERS' ARE NOT SOME MINDLESS MASS BUT THE SOUL-MUSIC FANS WHO HAVE GIVEN MANY OF THESE DJs THE STATUS THEY'VE ENJOYED AND STILL CRAVE...IT'S ABOUT THE MUSIC...SURELY?????? (THREAD HERE PERHAPS} PERHAPS ALL THOSE WHO FEEL THREATENED SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND FORM 'THE IVORY TOWER SOUL CLUB' AND KEEP IT REALLY EXCLUSIVE IT'S THEIR DISSMISSIVE ATTITUDE THAT IS TURNING FOLKS OFF......HOW ABOUT A BIG SIGN ON THE DOOR.....'NO PUNTERS, HAWKERS, IRISH OR BLACKS'

CHRIS M (RETREATING BEHIND BATTLEMENTS....ACTUALLY IT'S BATH NIGHT..BYE!!!) ..

..

'Nuff sed I think.

Regards,

Dave

https://www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[Guest Baz]

I would think that was Obvious, I can personaly think of @ least half a dozen or more Northern Events that are on now. That a year or so ago the People Promoting them where Punters & that is just in the South so it must the same all over the Country

JB

Can't see what the problem is there, if you stuck to that 'rule' then surley every one promoting an event was a punter at some stage care to name these half a dozen events