Restoring "noisy" Vinyl

[Guest MrC]

What do you find is the best way to "restore" noisy vinyl?

I have a couple of singles that would benefit from a good clean/restoration of some kind, but have never been sure of the best way to go about it.

What's the best way to clean/get rid of surface noise on those 45s you've managed to find in junk shops/warehouses/attics etc that are in a bit of a state?

Cheers

[boba]

What do you find is the best way to "restore" noisy vinyl?

I have a couple of singles that would benefit from a good clean/restoration of some kind, but have never been sure of the best way to go about it.

What's the best way to clean/get rid of surface noise on those 45s you've managed to find in junk shops/warehouses/attics etc that are in a bit of a state?

Cheers

send them to me, I'll clean them as clean as they can be and they will sound incredibly better. I can process it further on the computer if you want.

[Mick Holdsworth]

Do you mean get a clean recording or actually clean the vinyl?

If its the first, there are plenty of bits of software to do this.

If you mean the vinyl, there are liquid solutions for specially this, although I use an anti-static foam cleaner (Maplins) that does just as good a job at a fraction of the price

[Guest MrC]

I can process the sound files Bob!

I was thinking the cost of return postage to you could be put towards whatever was needed to do the job myself

I used to get some spray on stuff that sort of "rubberised" when sprayed onto vinyl, and then peel it of after leaving it for a while, but haven't seen any for a while.

Do you have a secret, patented process, or just magic ingredients?

[Guest LittleJazzyDavid]

hi with reading the thread about cleaning fliud . can somebody tell me what name of fluid to buy please as ive aload of vynl which needs doing.best regards dave parklands crew

[Guest MrC]

Do you mean get a clean recording or actually clean the vinyl?

If its the first, there are plenty of bits of software to do this.

If you mean the vinyl, there are liquid solutions for specially this, although I use an anti-static foam cleaner (Maplins) that does just as good a job at a fraction of the price

I mean clean the actual vinyl/styrene Mick, just things you've picked up from skip raiding and the like

Thanks for the Maplins tip.

[boba]

Do you mean get a clean recording or actually clean the vinyl?

If its the first, there are plenty of bits of software to do this.

If you mean the vinyl, there are liquid solutions for specially this, although I use an anti-static foam cleaner (Maplins) that does just as good a job at a fraction of the price

You should definitely get the vinyl as clean as possible before trying to clean it up on the computer. You need as much of the correct original sonic information as possible.

Lots of people have different cleaning techniques (some sort of crazy, like the glue thing), use different machines (e.g VPIs), etc. The last bit of cleaning makes all the difference.

I won a 45 from craig moerer recently, without actually listening to the soundclips which was pretty stupid of me. I listened to his clip after i won it and you could barely hear the music over the noise and crackle. I got it in the mail and it was super shiny, like it had been thoroughly cleaned already. I cleaned it and pretty much all the noise went away and you can only hear a little crackle at the start. It looked the same, but played totally differently.

[Guest MrC]

You should definitely get the vinyl as clean as possible before trying to clean it up on the computer. You need as much of the correct original sonic information as possible.

Lots of people have different cleaning techniques (some sort of crazy, like the glue thing), use different machines (e.g VPIs), etc. The last bit of cleaning makes all the difference.

I won a 45 from craig moerer recently, without actually listening to the soundclips which was pretty stupid of me. I listened to his clip after i won it and you could barely hear the music over the noise and crackle. I got it in the mail and it was super shiny, like it had been thoroughly cleaned already. I cleaned it and pretty much all the noise went away and you can only hear a little crackle at the start. It looked the same, but played totally differently.

So... what DO you use? Or is it a closely guarded secret?

[Benji]

If you mean the vinyl, there are liquid solutions for specially this, although I use an anti-static foam cleaner (Maplins) that does just as good a job at a fraction of the price

That's the Servisol one isn't it? Found it useful for actually cleaning up the vinyl (as in "it looks better and has a better shine to it") but not for cleaning the grooves. Improvement of sound was only marginal. is there any magic trick I have to do? Like letting the cleanser dry before rubbing it off?

[boba]

I can process the sound files Bob!

I was thinking the cost of return postage to you could be put towards whatever was needed to do the job myself

I used to get some spray on stuff that sort of "rubberised" when sprayed onto vinyl, and then peel it of after leaving it for a while, but haven't seen any for a while.

Do you have a secret, patented process, or just magic ingredients?

just my secret magic ingredients and process. Everyone has their own...

PM me and I'll take your records, clean them, and send them back. This is not a general invitation to anybody (I'm not running a cleaning business), just willing to show what good a cleaning can do. Make a recording of them before you send them to me, so you can rerecord after and compare. There are some things that cleaning won't fix, like heat damage (usually causes a "swoosh" sound), scratches, etc. I also don't polish records (totally dishonest practice) or shine them up with armor all or anything like that so you don't have to worry about that.

[Guest MrC]

That's the Servisol one isn't it? Found it useful for actually cleaning up the vinyl (as in "it looks better and has a better shine to it") but not for cleaning the grooves. Improvement of sound was only marginal. is there any magic trick I have to do? Like letting the cleanser dry before rubbing it off?

And would you use a standard soft lint free cloth or what?

[boba]

And would you use a standard soft lint free cloth or what?

I will stress that it is EXTREMELY important to use lint free cloth. You can get those microfiber cloths at auto parts stores that people use to clean / shine their cars. If you don't use lint free cloth parts of your cloth will embed into the grooves. The absolute worst is using cotton balls on styrene, they actually bond to the grooves somehow.

[Mick Reed]

I use this https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/precision-eem-cleaning-fluids/0132526/?searchTerm=132-526&relevancy-data=636F3D3126696E3D4931384E525353746F636B4E756D6265724D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C26706D3D5E5C647B337D5B5C732D2F255C2E5D5C647B332C347D2426706F3D313426736E3D592673743D52535F53544F434B5F4E554D424552267573743D3133322D3532362677633D4E4F4E4526

[Mick Holdsworth]

That's the Servisol one isn't it? Found it useful for actually cleaning up the vinyl (as in "it looks better and has a better shine to it") but not for cleaning the grooves. Improvement of sound was only marginal. is there any magic trick I have to do? Like letting the cleanser dry before rubbing it off?

Not sure - it's a basic white can with blue writing - afraid my eyes can't read the very fine print with the ingredients these days. It doesn't make the vinyl look much different (unless of course it had visible dirt on it to start with), and it does clean the grooves.

I use this https://uk.rs-online....7633D4E4F4E4526

That's an RS equivalent of the Maplins one - about the same price too.

Cheers

Mick

Edited February 27, 2012 by Mick Holdsworth

[boba]

One other note. If you have a styrene record that plays with hiss, the styrene is usually damaged and cleaning won't help. There are some other types of hiss (even from wet played records) that can be cleaned.

For a styrene burnt record if you just need to make a recording of it, you can often get it to sound better with a different cartridge / stylus which will ride in a different part of the groove that is less damaged.

[Amsterdam Russ]

I became a convert to the glue treatment after reading about it some months ago on here. I've had some amazing results with it. Funny, Bob, that you mention Craig Moerer. A vg 45 I bought from him transformed into an amazing near-mint after the glue treatment - and that's no exaggeration.

In other cases little or no improvement has been heard.

Certain models of ultrasonic jewellery cleaners are supposed to be good, and I would quite like to try one. For the moment though, I'll stick with the glue...

[Mick Holdsworth]

What is the "glue" treatment - I can see from the picture that the records are doused in (glue?) - what happens then

Cheers

Mick

[boba]

I became a convert to the glue treatment after reading about it some months ago on here. I've had some amazing results with it. Funny, Bob, that you mention Craig Moerer. A vg 45 I bought from him transformed into an amazing near-mint after the glue treatment - and that's no exaggeration.

In other cases little or no improvement has been heard.

Certain models of ultrasonic jewellery cleaners are supposed to be good, and I would quite like to try one. For the moment though, I'll stick with the glue...

Actually I know someone who swears by the ultrasonic cleaner. I bought one (the specific one he told me to buy), it was cheap, like $30 shipped. It did NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. I keep meaning to go to this guy's house to see what he might be doing differently but I tried a lot of ways of using it with no results. He says that he can see the dirt coming off into the water, I don't see or hear any difference (except the difference you might get from wetting a dirty record and wiping it off).

[boba]

What is the "glue" treatment - I can see from the picture that the records are doused in (glue?) - what happens then

Cheers

Mick

you let it dry for like 24 hours and peel it off and it takes off a lot of the deeply embedded dirt.

I have gotten post-glue treatment records cleaner. I think part of it is that the glue has high surface tension so it won't automatically go deep into the grooves. The most effective glue treatments is if you brush or somehow force the glue into the grooves.

[Guest]

Believe it or not I use mr sheen to clean really dirty records I then put them on the turntable and then I use an old stylus with the counter weight on full and play through a couple of times you would not believe the amount of crap out of the grooves then finaly finish of with a a spray of isopropyl alcohol

[Guest]

Actually I know someone who swears by the ultrasonic cleaner. I bought one (the specific one he told me to buy), it was cheap, like $30 shipped. It did NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. I keep meaning to go to this guy's house to see what he might be doing differently but I tried a lot of ways of using it with no results. He says that he can see the dirt coming off into the water, I don't see or hear any difference (except the difference you might get from wetting a dirty record and wiping it off).

I looked at those ultrasonic cleaners and wonder if it would work

[Amsterdam Russ]

What is the "glue" treatment - I can see from the picture that the records are doused in (glue?) - what happens then

Cheers

Mick

It's PVA, also known as wood glue. Conveniently for me, Bev my partner uses this stuff professionally and so usually has a gallon drum of the stuff in her workshop. I have it in an old washing up liquid bottle from which it can be poured through the nozzle.

Basically, you cover the surface in the stuff and leave it to dry. You know when it's done because the glue goes transparent. Then you just peel it off - carefully, of course.

I think I might still have a 30 second before/after recording of the first test, which I did on what I considered a trashed LP. The improvement is very noticeable. If I can find it, I'll post it to Soundcloud.

[Amsterdam Russ]

Actually I know someone who swears by the ultrasonic cleaner. I bought one (the specific one he told me to buy), it was cheap, like $30 shipped. It did NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. I keep meaning to go to this guy's house to see what he might be doing differently but I tried a lot of ways of using it with no results. He says that he can see the dirt coming off into the water, I don't see or hear any difference (except the difference you might get from wetting a dirty record and wiping it off).

I recall a thread on a Facebook group not so long ago about ultrasonic cleaners and the consensus was that they were pretty effective. So, I'm surprised at the results you got. Perhaps they're overrated?

[Guest]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/uDiF-eVOgoI Edited February 27, 2012 by Guest

[Mal C]

your all barking up the wrong tree,Tesco baby wet wipes is the answer, just enough soap in them to do the job, and because they are baby ones, no harmful stuff in them and being Tesco they are dead cheap.

also a new needle every so often keeps the sound good, most people forget to change their needles regularly..

Mal

Edited February 27, 2012 by Mal.C.

[Guest]

Gonna give the glue treament a try its got to be worth ago.

[Mal C]

Believe it or not I use mr sheen to clean really dirty records I then put them on the turntable and then I use an old stylus with the counter weight on full and play through a couple of times you would not believe the amount of crap out of the grooves then finaly finish of with a a spray of isopropyl alcohol

Change Mr sheen for Tesco Wet wipes and i do exactly the same, only thing is, it does not work on styrene, you will make those presses allot worse. I'd like to try the glue thing though, sound like fun...

What with isopropyl alcohol, who said record collecting could not be addictive!!

mal

Edited February 27, 2012 by Mal.C.

[Pete S]

I looked at those ultrasonic cleaners and wonder if it would work

Been using one for about 8 years. It will get rid of really grained-in dirt, and you can see it attacking the dirt on the vinyl, but I wouldn't re4commend investing in one unless it's only £15 like the one I got from Aldi.

I don't like the Maplins spray stuff, gives me headaches even in a ventilated room and it doesn't do a lot.

I'm back to using handsoap and water.

[Guest]

Change Mr sheen for Tesco Wet wipes and i do exactly the same, only thing is, it doe not work on styrene, you will make those presses allot worse. I'd like to try the glue thing, sound like fun...

I tend to think with the wipes etc you just push the dirt round on the surface and not get into the grooves.

[Guest]

We are all on a quest for cleaner vinyl if the wife knew we put more effort in to cleaning records rather than the house they would go mad

Edited February 27, 2012 by Guest

[Guest nomad]

I Just do what every man should do .... If you have a dirty record just leave it out of the box and the missus will clean it up for sure lol

I wouldnt advise you to leave a good record out though :P

[Northern Soul Uk]

2 methods that I have always used with excellent results are;

1) run some luke warm water into a bowl, add 1 drop of washing up liquid and stir but not enough to create bubbles. Take a soft lint free cloth, dip into the water and give the record a good wash with it avoiding the label. To rinse, run under a cold water tap again avoiding the water getting on the label, and dry with a dry soft cloth. If it doesn't work the fist time do it again, you will get markably good results with this method.

2) Go to a chemist and ask for a bottle of 'Isopropenol', this is the ingredient that is in EVERY off the shelf record cleaning solution, 'Isopropenol' is what you can always smell. Tell the pharmacist that it's for cleaning records, otherwise they might think you're a 'Sniffer' and it is highly potent.

This cleans up the records fantastically and a lot of the time can even get rid of minor scuffs ands scratches. Be careful how you use it though, it a good idea to avoid getting it on your skin.

Hope this helps. These are methods used by me and my staff for 20 years when I owned record shops, and believe me, I saw and heard some real bad states of records that after these methods were fit for sale.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Steve Luigi

[Stuart Bower]

Soulontop. Regarding getting the brown stuff from the very bottom of the groove, Years ago I used to use ORIGINAL Pledge (not the other 'flavoured' varieties), never used Mr Sheen. And running it through resulting in a big brown ball of wax on the end of your stylus! However, is today's original Pledge exactly the same as it used to be? Hmm...

[Amsterdam Russ]

I have gotten post-glue treatment records cleaner. I think part of it is that the glue has high surface tension so it won't automatically go deep into the grooves. The most effective glue treatments is if you brush or somehow force the glue into the grooves.

I use a plastic card to spread the glue evenly over the surface. When it comes off, the layer of dried glue is an inverse of the grooves. You can actually feel them and I'm sure you could almost use the layer as a stamper (ok, not quite).

[Stuart Bower]

2 methods that I have always used with excellent results are; 1) run some luke warm water into a bowl, add 1 drop of washing up liquid and stir but not enough to create bubbles. Take a soft lint free cloth, dip into the water and give the record a good wash with it avoiding the label. To rinse, run under a cold water tap again avoiding the water getting on the label, and dry with a dry soft cloth. If it doesn't work the fist time do it again, you will get markably good results with this method. 2) Go to a chemist and ask for a bottle of 'Isopropenol', this is the ingredient that is in EVERY off the shelf record cleaning solution, 'Isopropenol' is what you can always smell. Tell the pharmacist that it's for cleaning records, otherwise they might think you're a 'Sniffer' and it is highly potent. This cleans up the records fantastically and a lot of the time can even get rid of minor scuffs ands scratches. Be careful how you use it though, it a good idea to avoid getting it on your skin. Hope this helps. These are methods used by me and my staff for 20 years when I owned record shops, and believe me, I saw and heard some real bad states of records that after these methods were fit for sale.

I've used both these methods before (the first recommended to me by Snowy) but with one difference. A good (and better imo) alternative to the lint free cloth use a toothbrush! Believe me these are great and are much softer than the vinyl/styrene! Follow the groove round (obviously avoiding the label) turning the 45 as you go..

[Geordiejohnson]

Ouch............ im reading a few things on here that are making me cringe, for those who know me, for over 10 years i worked for a Canadian company who specialised in degrading polymers i.e degradable plastics etc and one of the macro molecular scientists who had developed many of the degradation materials told me about the damage things like detergents do to carbon materials such as vinyl and how ordinary tap water can allow limescale into the grooves and bugger them, im at work at present but i'll dig out a little piece i did for my friendship booklet about 5 years ago based on what he advised and post up later tonight.

To be honest though age is a killer plastics do naturally degrade (albeit we'll be dead before they get to the point of useless)

Geeooooordie

Edited February 27, 2012 by geordiejohnson

[phillyDaveG]

If you are a big collector or audiophile then you can't get better than this, easily the best cleaner out there;

https://www.loricraft.com/prc2.html

My PRC4 has paid for itself several times over, fantastic bit of kit, but high end price wise at almost £1500 inc vat, although you can haggle!

[boba]

2) Go to a chemist and ask for a bottle of 'Isopropenol', this is the ingredient that is in EVERY off the shelf record cleaning solution, 'Isopropenol' is what you can always smell. Tell the pharmacist that it's for cleaning records, otherwise they might think you're a 'Sniffer' and it is highly potent. Be careful how you use it though, it a good idea to avoid getting it on your skin.

Isn't "isopropenol" Isopropyl alcohol? Aka rubbing alcohol? Aka alcohol you're supposed to rub on your skin to disinfect it?

Although the fumes can make you sick, I've never heard of it used as an inhalant that people get high from.

[boba]

Ouch............ im reading a few things on here that are making me cringe, for those who know me, for over 10 years i worked for a Canadian company who specialised in degrading polymers i.e degradable plastics etc and one of the macro molecular scientists who had developed many of the degradation materials told me about the damage things like detergents do to carbon materials such as vinyl and how ordinary tap water can allow limescale into the grooves and bugger them, im at work at present but i'll dig out a little piece i did for my friendship booklet about 5 years ago based on what he advised and post up later tonight.

I'm sure some or all of the cleaning techniques (including using non-distilled water) can do some damage. But so can running a needle with downward force over all the grooves. Especially when there's dirt to push around and scratch the record.

I've experimented with different solvents over the years. I melted the grooves off a styrene record with paint thinner once.

Edited February 27, 2012 by boba

[Amsterdam Russ]

Ok, found the 'before and after' clip I made when using the wood glue / PVA for the first time.

The results are pretty impressive considering the grooves on this disc were absolutely packed with crud.

Oh, and before anyone has a pop about the music, I like Miguelito Valdez - OK?

https://soundcloud.com/harveysoulfinger/valdezmexicobeforeafter

[boba]

Ok, found the 'before and after' clip I made when using the wood glue / PVA for the first time.

The results are pretty impressive considering the grooves on this disc were absolutely packed with crud.

Oh, and before anyone has a pop about the music, I like Miguelito Valdez - OK?

https://soundcloud.com/harveysoulfinger/valdezmexicobeforeafter

yeah, if you clean records enough you can learn to hear what kind of noise it (possibly) is and whether it is cleanable or not. It's unlikely that that crunching noise at each rotation was caused by anything but dirt. Some noises that happen at each rotation are heat damage but they sound different than in this clip.

[Sleeps45]

I will stress that it is EXTREMELY important to use lint free cloth. You can get those microfiber cloths at auto parts stores that people use to clean / shine their cars. If you don't use lint free cloth parts of your cloth will embed into the grooves. The absolute worst is using cotton balls on styrene, they actually bond to the grooves somehow.

I use one of those micro-fiber auto detail cloths "of course lint free" and it works really good..if you use a regular cloth to clean the vinyl the lint will get stuck in the grooves like small slivers and theyre really hard to pick out

[dthedrug]

HI ALL, The use of PVA Wood Glue, Is the best & safest way to get rid of years of crap that gets into the record grooves. as it lifts the muck right out, I must mention that whatever cleaning method you use, PVA is a must! and safe, I come across the idea in the early 80's when I was in charge of a kids Adventure Playground, there was an article on what to do on wet cold days working with kids,it was in a book published by the ISLINGTON BUS Co, Remember APG back then attracted the unclubbable kids, so it was educational, it showed you how to make a record, by using junk, the PVA was to show the kids that a 7" record was stemmed from a mast disk, so you put 4 to 5 layers of the PVA over the plastic, leave it 24 hours and the remove it, this part of the demonstration would have been planned prior, the article went on to demonstrate how to make your own record and record player using a foil milk top a pin string beeswax & tin cans and wrapping foil, in fact PVA has many good use, making a face mask and so on?

another way is to use a lint free cloth meths and a vacuum cleaner, with the small 5" T shaped head attachment, and suck the muck out. I have used this method to get rid pf warps in some records with great success, DAVE69

[Prophonics 2029]

I became a convert to the glue treatment after reading about it some months ago on here. I've had some amazing results with it. Funny, Bob, that you mention Craig Moerer. A vg 45 I bought from him transformed into an amazing near-mint after the glue treatment - and that's no exaggeration.

In other cases little or no improvement has been heard.

Certain models of ultrasonic jewellery cleaners are supposed to be good, and I would quite like to try one. For the moment though, I'll stick with the glue...

Dose it make the house smell.

[Johnty]

Ouch............ im reading a few things on here that are making me cringe, for those who know me, for over 10 years i worked for a Canadian company who specialised in degrading polymers i.e degradable plastics etc and one of the macro molecular scientists who had developed many of the degradation materials told me about the damage things like detergents do to carbon materials such as vinyl and how ordinary tap water can allow limescale into the grooves and bugger them, im at work at present but i'll dig out a little piece i did for my friendship booklet about 5 years ago based on what he advised and post up later tonight.

To be honest though age is a killer plastics do naturally degrade (albeit we'll be dead before they get to the point of useless)

Geeooooordie

[Johnty]

Ouch............ im reading a few things on here that are making me cringe, for those who know me, for over 10 years i worked for a Canadian company who specialised in degrading polymers i.e degradable plastics etc and one of the macro molecular scientists who had developed many of the degradation materials told me about the damage things like detergents do to carbon materials such as vinyl and how ordinary tap water can allow limescale into the grooves and bugger them, im at work at present but i'll dig out a little piece i did for my friendship booklet about 5 years ago based on what he advised and post up later tonight.

To be honest though age is a killer plastics do naturally degrade (albeit we'll be dead before they get to the point of useless)

Geeooooordie

ian pm me the article mate i have a few that needs a goood clean up

regards john

[boba]

I actually have never tried the glue thing but have been told conflicting things. Some people said to use "wood glue" and others the elmers school glue that kids use in school. I got a bottle of the elmers school glue and have been meaning to try it but am waiting for a particularly difficult case to test it.

Also, sort of related, it was actually really difficult to find the bottle of glue. You used to be able to go to the school supplies section of the drugstore and find it. Now all they carry are glue sticks. I guess kids in school don't use that squeeze bottle of glue anymore, they mainly use glue sticks.

[boba]

I use one of those micro-fiber auto detail cloths "of course lint free" and it works really good..if you use a regular cloth to clean the vinyl the lint will get stuck in the grooves like small slivers and theyre really hard to pick out

with regular cloth (or worse, cotton), it's not even small slivers ... when you play the 45 you can see all this gunk the color of your cloth coming up and sticking to the needle.

[boba]

in fact PVA has many good use, making a face mask and so on?

Face masks? can you elaborate?

another way is to use a lint free cloth meths and a vacuum cleaner, with the small 5" T shaped head attachment, and suck the muck out. I have used this method to get rid pf warps in some records with great success, DAVE69

With record cleaning machines, you apply the fluid and they all use vacuum cleaners to suck the fluid off the vinyl. I don't think I'm following here, though, you're saying you can get rid of warps somehow? I'm interested as I can't fix warps and have sent it to other people who had dewarping machines to do it for me.

[Amsterdam Russ]

Dose it make the house smell.

Not at all. It's relatively odour free.

I actually have never tried the glue thing but have been told conflicting things. Some people said to use "wood glue" and others the elmers school glue that kids use in school. I got a bottle of the elmers school glue and have been meaning to try it but am waiting for a particularly difficult case to test it.

Also, sort of related, it was actually really difficult to find the bottle of glue. You used to be able to go to the school supplies section of the drugstore and find it. Now all they carry are glue sticks. I guess kids in school don't use that squeeze bottle of glue anymore, they mainly use glue sticks.

You should head on to your local DIY/hardware shop. PVA/wood glue is also known as carpenter's glue and white glue. A decent art supplies shop should also be able to supply it. A quick look on the Elmer's website shows that they supply a range of PVA/wood glues...

https://www.elmers.com/products/glues-and-adhesives/