Bbc Documentary - The Joy Of Disco Bbc4 Friday 02/03/12 21.00

[Mick Sway]

FYI anyone interested in this Documentary go to:

https://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p00pgbbm

[Chalky]

Can you remind me on Friday, I'll have forgotten

[Guest MrC]

Saw the trailer for this over the weekend, looks like it could be pretty good.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yep, there was a nice clip on "Something For The Weekend" yesterday showing a short interview with Kenny Gamble. Additionally, Alan Jones (who writes the sleevenotes for the Disco Discharge series) is also featured heavily. Should be worth watching!

Ian D

[Guest daz mycroft]

Sounds good just hope it doesnt degenerate into the whole Studio 54, Saturdaynight fever, Chic,Village People fest that these type of Progs have a habit of doing

[Geeselad]

Sounds good just hope it doesnt degenerate into the whole Studio 54, Saturdaynight fever, Chic,Village People fest that these type of Progs have a habit of doing

its on beeb 4, so I hope, no expect, better, hoping to see a bit on the sanctuary and francis Grasso. As well as credit to Patrick Adams, Tom Moulton, Walter Gibbons and of course Levan, Dj's cant get too much credit in the development of Disco imho.

[Guest Matt Male]

just hope it doesnt degenerate into the whole Studio 54, Saturdaynight fever, Chic,Village People fest that these type of Progs have a habit of doing

It did.

[Anais nin Carms]

It was entertaining . Enjoyed the brief Philly footage

[Ian Dewhirst]

It did.

Yep. The Soul content was negligable. It was OK for me from a commercial viewpoint 'cos I've got another 4 Disco Discharge albums coming out (no pun intended) so it certainly hit that audience head on (once again no pun intended).

However, at least Kenny Gamble and Earl Young were featured early on, which were the best bits of the show for me.....

Ian D

[Guest Polyvelts]

I thought it was ok, but right now watching 'disco at the bbc', classic footage of cleethorpes finest Rod Temperton playing keyboards for Heatwave, nice Tash !

[Sheldonsoul]

When the part about sylvester came on,was that the jeannie Tracy being interviewed

[Soulman]

Question for Mr Dewhirst or any other knowledgable fellow who doesn't shy away from the commercial side of things. The guitar work in the clip that featured A Taste Of Honey was very very reminiscent of that in Babe Ruth's "Elusive". Was there a connection between the two?

Answers on a postcard to..........

Steve.

Edited March 3, 2012 by soulman

[Guest posstot]

I saw the part where Ian Levine, mentioned phasing out Northern Soul altogether, to establish the Mecca as a disco venue.

[kevinsoulman]

LOVE THE BIT ABOUT TOM MOULTON THINKING ANDREA TRUE CONNECTION'S MORE MORE MORE WAS ABOUT MUSIC AND WOULD NOT HAVE TOUCHED IT IF HE KNEW IT WAS ABOUT PORN

CLASSIC

KEV

[Wiggyflat]

Stock footage from Blackpool and clips from This England outakes in a pristine print....can anyone confirm the outakes are not on the Tony Palmer DVD.Also footage from the Omnibus documentary..............I'm on to this.

[Pete S]

Stock footage from Blackpool and clips from This England outakes in a pristine print....can anyone confirm the outakes are not on the Tony Palmer DVD.Also footage from the Omnibus documentary..............I'm on to this.

They released it on DVD and included the outtakes I think

[Markw]

Sounds good just hope it doesnt degenerate into the whole Studio 54, Saturdaynight fever, Chic,Village People fest that these type of Progs have a habit of doing

And, i depressingly predictable fashion, that is exactly what happened. What did anyone really expect? :sleep3:

[Tiggerwoods]

When the part about sylvester came on,was that the jeannie Tracy being interviewed

Yes !!

[Ian Dewhirst]

Question for Mr Dewhirst or any other knowledgable fellow who doesn't shy away from the commercial side of things. The guitar work in the clip that featured A Taste Of Honey was very very reminiscent of that in Babe Ruth's "Elusive". Was there a connection between the two?

Answers on a postcard to..........

Steve.

Mmm. Never really connected the two. Both records on Capitol and only a few years apart.............

Ian D

[slimharpo]

And, i depressingly predictable fashion, that is exactly what happened. What did anyone really expect? :sleep3:

What about Charles Johnson of Never Had A Love So Good singing Disco Inferno as lead of The Platters!

[Wrongcrowd]

What about Charles Johnson of Never Had A Love So Good singing Disco Inferno as lead of The Platters!

I thought I'd misheard, so I'm glad you posted this.... his voice was awesome !

Great to see Jeanie Tracy throughout the documentaries too.

[good angel]

But the the show came over if you went to a Disco you was Gay,what a load of Bollocks.

[Chalky]

It's like any program about any music genre, they never let the facts get in the way of a good story. I was surprised it took so long to get to the Bee Gees and John Travolta

[good angel]

It's like any program about any music genre, they never let the facts get in the way of a good story. I was surprised it took so long to get to the Bee Gees and John Travolta

Yes The Bee Gees,the singing sheep.

The BBC,love the Gay angle on any story aswell.

Kev.

[Pete S]

But the the show came over if you went to a Disco you was Gay,what a load of Bollocks.

I was thinking that too. If that was the case, our youth club disco was a gay heaven - practically every record featured in that program up until 1978 was played there, all the Philly ones, the Northern ones, people forget that the charts in those days were crammed with soul records. I watched 1977 Top Of The Pops last night and the chart was almost 50% black/soul artists.

[Larry Semmins]

Camp as pink ink,turned over after 15 mins.

[21 Again]

Just watched on catch up to see the Charles Johnson singing worth a wee look awesome voice.

[Steveh73]

Was that Herb Johnson of the Platters rather than Charles?

[Wrongcrowd]

Was that Herb Johnson of the Platters rather than Charles?

Herb Reed was directing, but Charles Johnson was on lead vocal......

Edited March 3, 2012 by Wrongcrowd

[Mark R]

If you didn't expect too much, then it was fine. I think on these forums we always feel sold short by such documentaries, but we're in a minority as we know a bit about it.

For me, these things are about the rare footage......if you want to get the right story you need to read the books.....Last Night A DJ Saved My Life, Love Saves The Day etc, etc

Would have liked more reference to the DJ's/remixers etc, but nice to see Mancuso and Siano included at least......maybe simply because they are still alive to interview??

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest ashleysoul]

Overall I think it was pretty good. If you watch a film about disco and expect it not to include the likes of the bee gees and the village people then you are asking alot. Regardless of what we want they are part of its history. And as for the gay angle, same again, it was music created and initially championed by the gay community.

The high point for me was seeing an interview with mancuso - what a legend.

The Down point, no mention of paradise garage and levan.

All in all though, quality tv!

[Steveh73]

Herb Reed was directing, but Charles Johnson was on lead vocal......

You are right - sorry, I was a bit tired yesterday!!

[Anais nin Carms]

Well I really enjoyed it , I never expected too much , I was surprised by the fact disco was born out of the gay scene , I thought the gay community embraced it , but wasn't aware its roots came from it? To me disco was just an evolution a hybrid of black music. I really liked seeing the emotions , they looked so energetic singing with what had to be the showmen of disco Earth wind and fire.

What was missing ? The Uk disco scene ... Tavaras, the Ojays even ..Cool and gang , underground disco like Jackie Moores this time baby , GQ disco nights , make my dream a reality . I don't think the non commercail stuff got much of a mentionand really that was the best of disco.

Also who remembers the disco dancing championships.... I bet a certain Dj cringes when he is reminded of these

The programme did inspire me to ask Nige to order the Philly CD ( thanks Ian) and also see if I could still get an old album I used to have by a band called By All means... which I did

I also loved seeing Car wash being sung some singers just ooooooooze soul don't they .

I think the death of disco was when they lost the real instruments and it went "Euro" and it was manufactured with synths and booms and bleeps from out of space.

But on the whole it made a saturday more interestng than normal on the box... better than Quiz shows and competion TV.

[Mark R]

Read the bools folks......seriously fascinating stuff for people like us!

Cheers,

Mark R

[good angel]

Well I really enjoyed it , I never expected too much , I was surprised by the fact disco was born out of the gay scene , I thought the gay community embraced it , but wasn't aware its roots came from it? To me disco was just an evolution a hybrid of black music. I really liked seeing the emotions , they looked so energetic singing with what had to be the showmen of disco Earth wind and fire.

What was missing ? The Uk disco scene ... Tavaras, the Ojays even ..Cool and gang , underground disco like Jackie Moores this time baby , GQ disco nights , make my dream a reality . I don't think the non commercail stuff got much of a mentionand really that was the best of disco.

Also who remembers the disco dancing championships.... I bet a certain Dj cringes when he is reminded of these

The programme did inspire me to ask Nige to order the Philly CD ( thanks Ian) and also see if I could still get an old album I used to have by a band called By All means... which I did

I also loved seeing Car wash being sung some singers just ooooooooze soul don't they .

I think the death of disco was when they lost the real instruments and it went "Euro" and it was manufactured with synths and booms and bleeps from out of space.

But on the whole it made a saturday more interestng than normal on the box... better than Quiz shows and competion TV.

It always seems as the BBC have a gay agenda,but it is a show business thing.

Kev.

[Guest ashleysoul]

To suggest the BBC has a 'gay agenda' is pretty peculiar. Anyone with an ounce of understanding knows that disco was originally the preserve of the gay community. All the the djs that championed it and gave it quality were gay, the clubs where it started were gay and it only went down hill when it was embraced wholesale by a White straight community in manhattan as opposed to the ,underground' downtown.

[Guest ashleysoul]

And if anyone has the time, following on from another post, pick up a copy of 'love saves the day'.

[Wrongcrowd]

To suggest the BBC has a 'gay agenda' is pretty peculiar. Anyone with an ounce of understanding knows that disco was originally the preserve of the gay community. All the the djs that championed it and gave it quality were gay, the clubs where it started were gay and it only went down hill when it was embraced wholesale by a White straight community in manhattan as opposed to the ,underground' downtown.

That's a bit an overstatement too, some of the DJs and early adopters of the disco scene were gay for sure, but by no means all of them, and entirely the preserve of a gay scene.....no. They are more broad brush generalisations just like Pete Waterman's ridiculous breakfast TV comment of "everyone into Northern were miners" to conveniently simplify a complex music scene.

An underlying theme in the documentary was the change from a ground roots scene in to one of mass awareness and commercial hype that ultimately caused it to no longer be cool, then instigating a new underground scene. That should have struck a familiar chord for many of us.

[Dean Rudland]

Can you not remove a post anymore?

Edited March 4, 2012 by Dean Rudland

[Guest daz mycroft]

Am i haveing deja vu or is it groundhog day the programme was trash when it was first Broadcast 4 years ago, how can a Programme on disco be Brodcast without mentioning Levan/ Pardise Garage.Watchable only for its cringe factor and the clips of Nicky Ciano and the Gallery. what would the Majority of the people on this site be saying if The Beeb did a docu on the Northern secne, Maybe Clips of Wigans ovation singing sking in the Snow..

Narrated by Paul o grady featuring tracks such as "Theme from Joe 90 or , whats behind the Green door dubbed over excerpts from "the hit man and her" Thought disco at the beeb was a joke also only saving grace was Taste of Honey playing live to totally of the hook Audience.Not the Totp audiences i remember

[Guest daz mycroft]

Well I really enjoyed it , I never expected too much , I was surprised by the fact disco was born out of the gay scene , I thought the gay community embraced it , but wasn't aware its roots came from it? To me disco was just an evolution a hybrid of black music. I really liked seeing the emotions , they looked so energetic singing with what had to be the showmen of disco Earth wind and fire.

What was missing ? The Uk disco scene ... Tavaras, the Ojays even ..Cool and gang , underground disco like Jackie Moores this time baby , GQ disco nights , make my dream a reality . I don't think the non commercail stuff got much of a mentionand really that was the best of disco.

Also who remembers the disco dancing championships.... I bet a certain Dj cringes when he is reminded of these

The programme did inspire me to ask Nige to order the Philly CD ( thanks Ian) and also see if I could still get an old album I used to have by a band called By All means... which I did

I also loved seeing Car wash being sung some singers just ooooooooze soul don't they .

I think the death of disco was when they lost the real instruments and it went "Euro" and it was manufactured with synths and booms and bleeps from out of space.

But on the whole it made a saturday more interestng than normal on the box... better than Quiz shows and competion TV.

was the Ojays who recorded "This Time Baby" first, imho far superior to the 4/4 Jackie Moore version

[Sheldonsoul]

When the part about sylvester came on,was that the jeannie Tracy being interviewed

my mistake, the programme I watched on Friday night with jeannie Tracy in it was called queens of disco on bbc 4 Edited March 4, 2012 by sheldonsoul

[Guest daz mycroft]

how come Tom Moulton And Rip Bill Tarmey ( jack Duckworth} where never seen in the same place together

[Daved]

What about Charles Johnson of Never Had A Love So Good singing Disco Inferno as lead of The Platters!

Was it definately the same man?

[Daved]

The programme did inspire me to ask Nige to order the Philly CD ( thanks Ian) and also see if I could still get an old album I used to have by a band called By All means... which I did

.

Why did that programme inspire you to listen an old By All Means LP? Great band but nothing to do with disco.

[Sunnysoul]

Here's something to think about.

Virtually all the histories of disco have stated that disco was born out of the predominantly white New York gay scene.

Perhaps it's time that this perspective was challenged.

One could argue that the real driving force - in a cultural sense - which ultimately led to what came to be known the world over as "disco' was straight black teens ... those black kids in the the larger US urban cities like New York, Chicago, Philly, Detroit and LA .

The whole dancing in "discotheques" and "go go" craze that had hit the US in the mid 60s via Motown and the golden era of soul may have been fading fast by 1967 with psychedelia - at least as far as mainstream white US society was concerned - but the black kids in urban cities never stopped going to clubs (and school gymnasiums !) and dancing to their favourite soul and funk tunes and creating new dances all the time (the Tighten Up , Funky Chicken , Robot etc ).

Just read the chapter on dancing in Robert Pruter's brilliant book "Chicago Soul" to see exactly what was going on in a major city like Chicago in the late 60's in terms of how influential young straight black kids were in the development of music culture in the US at the time .

What the conventional histories of the disco scene never state - such as the books which Mark Res refers to in an earlier post - is that for every one of those legendary small gay haunts in New York with DJs like Francis Grasso which were considered to be the well spring for disco , there were a whole host of little black clubs with their own DJs , not only New York but the other major cities , and which played popular soul and RnB tunes of the day and catered to a primarily straight young black clientele, and that's not to mention the plethora of night clubs for older blacks , as well as the usual chitlin circuit for live soul acts ( the Howard Theatre , Apollo etc) ...

Furthermore, the TV show "Soul Train" went into national syndication in 1971, and was based in LA by the way, not New York , having started life as a local show for black teens in Chicago in 1969 . Have a look at some of those early episodes of Soul Train; the template for disco was already there by 1971 for all Americans to see every week , while the gay club scene in New York at that time was still in its infancy and still very underground.

What I'm getting at is that it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that the whole disco era may well have happened even if there had been no gay New York club scene / culture at all ... This is not to dismiss the influence that the New York gay scene actually did have on disco but to give a more balanced perspective on what really led to the cultural phenomenon of disco.

Edited March 4, 2012 by sunnysoul

[Anais nin Carms]

It inspired me to go forward 10 /20 years . I get so wrapped up in 60's rare soul I forget that some good came out of black artists beyond 1979 . I left By all means behind so to speak , today I have rekindled an ear for someone I had also forgotten about Al Broomfield , Freddy Jackson , Alexander Oniel. I wouldn't have done that If had not watched last nights disco.

I know you will find it hard to understand , but its personal to me ...and it did. sometimes images or sounds have a sort of indirect domino effect , they make you think and give you little sparks of memories ...the disco thing lead me into thinking of another time.

I guess we all have forgotten Albums ... I have been trying to remember for years the Al Broomfield surrender album , could I remember his name ? Kept thinking he was a bobby somebody ...today I found it whilst clawing through By all means on utube... along with Badusium ))

So last nights viewing had a positive result for me ...

Edited March 4, 2012 by Carms

[Neiljon31]

For what its worth I thought the Joy of Disco was very good and went a little further ,esp in the first 20 mins or so, into its subject than a lot of other things. Anything on mainstream telly will have to give village people a nod, saturday night fever etc a nod to get past the boardroom otherwise its an extreme niche documentary. But the Stonewall interviews, Nicky Siano and Mancuso interviews were tremendous.

As has been mentioned twice already, Love Saves The Day by Tim Lawrence is an absolutely belting book and I think the best music book (full stop). The story of disco is as much the story of New York and dragging redundant attitudes into the modern era.

What gets me though is 'disco' did not stop when a bunch of ignorants blew up boxes of records in Chicago- it was no longer Bianca Jagger going to a club on a horse- and from that came Paradise Garage, The Warehouse, Larry Levan, Frankie Knuckles, Detroit techo ,8 ball records, King Street records, Glenn Underground, Strictly Rhythmn......( you can keep going here)--. It was never a nostalgic or regressive thing and still is not today, as we all know its dance music, club music- call it what you will-

Although its not a great film at the end of 'The Last Days of Disco' there is a great speech along the lines of 'disco will never die etc' its made in a dead straight way but its tremendous.......

just my thoughts

[Daved]

It inspired me to go forward 10 /20 years . I get so wrapped up in 60's rare soul I forget that some good came out of black artists beyond 1979 . I left By all means behind so to speak , today I have rekindled an ear for someone I had also forgotten about Al Broomfield , Freddy Jackson , Alexander Oniel. I wouldn't have done that If had not watched last nights disco.

I know you will find it hard to understand , but its personal to me ...and it did. sometimes images or sounds have a sort of indirect domino effect , they make you think and give you little sparks of memories ...the disco thing lead me into thinking of another time.

I guess we all have forgotten Albums ... I have been trying to remember for years the Al Broomfield surrender album , could I remember his name ? Kept thinking he was a bobby somebody ...today I found it whilst clawing through By all means on utube... along with Badusium ))

So last nights viewing had a positive result for me ...

Fair enough. Just curious.

[Guest ashleysoul]

Wrong crowd, clearly it is a mass generalisation, but I think I'm pretty accurate when i say that disco came to life at the loft, paradise garage and the gallery and the majority of people that went to these clubs were gay. Although I never personally went to them, so I may be way off course.