Steve Plumb Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Need some help peeps Reading the various tome's I'm not 100% on whether a copy of Rock Candy on Dontee I have is an original or not? First of all it's a light Blue label in vinyl and does look good! Run out groove on the 'Alone with no love' side (actually the B side) reads- 45rpm at 6 o'clock Dontee 101-A2 at 5 o'clock "Alone with no love" at 4 o'clock 2/18/71 and a 'squiggle' at 3 o'clock All fairly legible but not that deep that you can feel it? Run out groove on the 'I don't think' side (actually the A side) reads- Dontee 103-A at 6 o'clock (barely visible) IC at 3 o'clock and that's all there is on this side! As I said it's not easy to work out from the books BUT I suspect it is a boot (or a legal label reissue?) and if it is, I wondered if anyone can confirm what a true light Blue label original has in the run out grooves, particularly the A side? Many thanks in advance Cheers Steve Edited February 17, 2012 by Steve Plumb Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sleeps45 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I never knew there was a boot of this floating around?? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sleeps45 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 contemplations was the 1st record I believe but it doesnt have that killer sweet flip https://collectorsfrenzy.com/Details.aspx?id=150717718941 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sleeps45 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 also i've seen the rock candy on yellow label,powder blue,and white promo..again never heard of a boot on this?would be good to know if there was Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Barry Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have the yellow issue - don't think it's ever been booted. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Spook Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There is deffo a Light Blue counterfeit copy, but the books are not clear, the boot deffo has the date scratched in along with the title. Steve is looking to see what a blue issue (original) has in the runoff if anything, as my white demo also has the title and date scratched in. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
grant Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Have the white label copy - so not a boot? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) 45rpm at 6 o'clock Dontee 101-A2 at 5 o'clock "Alone with no love" at 4 o'clock 2/18/71 and a 'squiggle' at 3 o'clock could say Joe or 2005 All fairly legible but not that deep that you can feel it? Run out groove on the 'I don't think' side (actually the A side) reads- Dontee 103-A at 6 o'clock (barely visible) IC at 3 o'clock ``It looks like a triangle on its side with a 3 after it. Info is all the same as my WLP. Edited February 17, 2012 by Prophonics 2029 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
hullsoul Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Bought a Contemplations as I think my blue copy is a boot?I also wanted the inst as it's brilliant & the only way to get it is on the Contemplations issue. Cheers Martyn Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
NEV Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 45rpm at 6 o'clock Dontee 101-A2 at 5 o'clock "Alone with no love" at 4 o'clock 2/18/71 and a 'squiggle' at 3 o'clock could say Joe or 2005 All fairly legible but not that deep that you can feel it? Run out groove on the 'I don't think' side (actually the A side) reads- Dontee 103-A at 6 o'clock (barely visible) IC at 3 o'clock ``It looks like a triangle on its side with a 3 after it. Info is all the same as my WLP. I don't wish to dismiss the above info but thought I'd seen in other topics that the o'clock thing was sketchy as it just depends where the record is when printed as to where the matrix etc landed ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Only in relation to how and where the lable is nev. Edited February 17, 2012 by Prophonics 2029 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Only in relation to how and where the lable is nev. Yeah I agree! In relation to a label it means nowt but in relation to other stuff in the run out groove it's relevant! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Anybody out there have a Blue original? If so, any chance you could give us the run out groove info? Thanks in advance Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
neckender Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Anybody out there have a Blue original? If so, any chance you could give us the run out groove info? Thanks in advance Steve the boot is blue only. All yellow copies and white djs are originals. There is also an original blue label copy. How to tell the difference: Originals have a slightly more squared edge and the boots are more rounded. The type face is slightly different on the original and the info in the runout groove is smaller and clearer. But the main difference is in the vinyl; you have a bootleg if both sides of the grooves/pressing look identical. The originals look as though each side has been manufactured on a different pressing machine. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hi Neckender, the disc is cut then copied in a reverse copper plating process to create the stamper, so the size or width of the play area is defined into its fixed size then. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
boba Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 When was the boot done, where was it distributed to, and for what market? If it was a northern soul boot, they could have done the contemplations instead? Also, it looks like they put in a lot of effort to make it seem real. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Was the Contemplations known back then Boba?. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Kjw Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It would seem strange to bootleg a record that was available on blue and yellow label issues, white label promos and also as The Contemplations Isn't it possible that they just did another run on the blue label Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
neckender Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 When was the boot done, where was it distributed to, and for what market? If it was a northern soul boot, they could have done the contemplations instead? Also, it looks like they put in a lot of effort to make it seem real. I first saw the bootleg in the US about 20 years ago when the American group soul collectors began in earnest looking for ballads (previous to the Soul Harmony Soul bible) Im sure it was booted for the group ballad side in the US. It's very easy to spot the difference between the orig and the boot, once you have seen them both. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) That's great info, many thanks :-) Do you have the actual details of the run out groove on the Blue original, particularly the ballad side, as mine above is pretty basic, yet the dance side is fairly full of text (which is weird in itself isn't it?). Usually the run out grooves are pretty much similar on A and B sides with just matrix numbers etc changing to suit? A scan of the Blue orig would be good too and i'll get this one of mine (assuming it's the boot/second issue) up too Thanks in advance, i thought this thread was going to die a death but there's life still in it yet Cheers Steve Edited February 21, 2012 by Steve Plumb Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sleeps45 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thanks for that - the one i have looks the same as the second one? I'll post it up now - If you look you'll see the 'Dist by' info above the label number on LHS plus there's two lines of info on the RHS The first one has no 'Dist by' and only one line of info on RHS This makes sense that the first one is orig and the second one is repress? Here's mine Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sleeps45 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thanks for that - the one i have looks the same as the second one? I'll post it up now - If you look you'll see the 'Dist by' info above the label number on LHS plus there's two lines of info on the RHS The first one has no 'Dist by' and only one line of info on RHS This makes sense that the first one is orig and the second one is repress? Here's mine right on the money..never knew there was a boot of this floating around until this topic arose..definitley good to know Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 right on the money..never knew there was a boot of this floating around until this topic arose..definitley good to know Looks like we sorted it Still need the run-out groove info on the Blue Original though if anyone would like to check theirs and post it up...............................................this is the reason i posted cos I got the above spare copy to sell on and thought 'that looks like a reissue' I'll check it against my original...............................well I think you know the rest Cheers Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Spook Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The "moderator" needs to put this thread into the sharp end of vinyl because it has scans of both blue copies and JM's guide is a bit vague. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yes, i think it does belong in there - just also posted summat in there about a strange Pointer Sisters issue in there too! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Glynthornhill Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just to continue this saga - interesting to note that the tune came out on Dontee 101 - Alone With No Love / Inst 11/ 69 released according to Soul Harmony reference book . However this was credited as The Contemplations - Never seen a copy myself , and Rock Candy was issued in 1971 ??? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
boba Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just to continue this saga - interesting to note that the tune came out on Dontee 101 - Alone With No Love / Inst 11/ 69 released according to Soul Harmony reference book . However this was credited as The Contemplations - Never seen a copy myself , and Rock Candy was issued in 1971 ??? The contemplations record comes up for sale. Go to www.popsike.com and type in contemplations into the search to see what it looks like Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Glynthornhill Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes Bob - seen them on Collectors frenzy / Popsike - meant to say have not seen one to hold in the hands .... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
boba Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes Bob - seen them on Collectors frenzy / Popsike - meant to say have not seen one to hold in the hands .... I have a copy, not that I can easily put it your hands. Would trade it for the blendels on dontee if you got that... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Wrongcrowd Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just to continue this saga - interesting to note that the tune came out on Dontee 101 - Alone With No Love / Inst 11/ 69 released according to Soul Harmony reference book . However this was credited as The Contemplations - Never seen a copy myself , and Rock Candy was issued in 1971 ??? It's exactly the same take Glyn. When I picked up my first copy of the Contemplations I compared it to Rock Candy to find there's no difference. If I remember correctly the master references in the run out are (not surprisingly) also both the same. It was quite some time after Rock Candy had been played before the Contemplations 45 surfaced, and it still remains to be pretty tough 45 to find. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Mrs M Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I was always led to believe the yellow label was an original but rarer copy. I have the pale blue which I always thought was a boot cos the original blue label is lighter.. Bugger I was hoping mine wasn't a boot... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 I was always led to believe the yellow label was an original but rarer copy. I have the pale blue which I always thought was a boot cos the original blue label is lighter.. Bugger I was hoping mine wasn't a boot... Go and check it Mrs M......................that's what happened to me Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Mrs M Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Go and check it Mrs M......................that's what happened to me Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Mrs M Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Go and check it Mrs M......................that's what happened to me Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Mrs M Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Will do Steve.. I will get Dave to have a good look at it for me.. I didn't pay lots for it, had it over twenty years now so at least I wasn't had over.. They have to get up early to catch me out lol xx Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Plumb Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Will do Steve.. I will get Dave to have a good look at it for me.. I didn't pay lots for it, had it over twenty years now so at least I wasn't had over.. They have to get up early to catch me out lol xx Same here, mine didn't cost owt but kinda feels silly when you realise that you've had a boot filed in with all your originals all these years Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Still a funny sonuding record boot, demo or yellow blue contemplated dontee. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gene-r Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Just to continue this saga - interesting to note that the tune came out on Dontee 101 - Alone With No Love / Inst 11/ 69 released according to Soul Harmony reference book . However this was credited as The Contemplations - Never seen a copy myself , and Rock Candy was issued in 1971 ??? Personally, my theory is that Rock Candy only ever recorded ONE track, and that was "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another". My guess is that Joe Tate, or whoever was in charge of Dontee, needed a B-side filler on this occasion. Thus, "Alone With No Love" by The Contemplations was used, but still credited to Rock Candy just to maintain consistency. The two groups on either side sound as alike as the proverbial chalk and cheese. Edited February 29, 2012 by Gene-R 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mr Soul Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 contemplations circa 1969,rock candy 1971 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gene-r Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 contemplations circa 1969,rock candy 1971 You're right there Mr Soul - according to the matrix engravings, The Contemplations was mastered in August 1969, and the Rock Candy in February 1971. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
nickp Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Looking at the sales of ' blue label ' copies of Rock Candy on Popsike and Collectors Frenzy everyone seems convinced that their copy was an original and were described as such. However the WLP copies seem to have The 'Dist by ' info that the' ORIGINAL' blue label copies are missing. The mystery deepens. I wonder if the WLP was where the ' blue label ' copies came from, keeping all the info and just losing the promo....not for sale at the printing stage ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Benji Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 is it really confirmed that there is a bootleg? so far it just looks like a variety in presses to me. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Has any one confirmed that a copy is missing the dead wax details? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Wrongcrowd Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 is it really confirmed that there is a bootleg? so far it just looks like a variety in presses to me. I'm inclined to agree on the different press theory especially since the WLP label has the same details as the release thought to be a bootleg. Still good to be able to distinguish between 1st and 2nd presses though. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gene-r Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Just to continue this saga - interesting to note that the tune came out on Dontee 101 - Alone With No Love / Inst 11/ 69 released according to Soul Harmony reference book . However this was credited as The Contemplations - Never seen a copy myself , and Rock Candy was issued in 1971 ??? I should also add that I think the Contemplations is definitely the one to go for, as it also has the awesome instrumental (backing track) of 'Alone With No Love' by the Dontee Studio Band on the B-side. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
hullsoul Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I should also add that I think the Contemplations is definitely the one to go for, as it also has the awesome instrumental (backing track) of 'Alone With No Love' by the Dontee Studio Band on the B-side. That's the reason I bought my Contemplations,the inst just blows me away. Cheers Martyn Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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