The Two Most Important Northern Record Labels

[Kegsy]

Before i start I have deliberately excluded the Tamla Motown stable from my calculations.

I have done this because there has always been a distinction between Motown and what became

known as Northern Soul.

I also dont want to diminish the part played by other UK labels Columbia, Pye Int, Sue Etc.

I would say that the two most influential record labels in the history of Northern Soul have got to be

UK London-American and UK Stateside.

Given that the vast majority of records ever played on the scene are U.S. imports, this statement

may sound pretty wierd. However here's the case for the defence.

During the formative years of the scene, up to the closure of the Wheel, virtually all the records

played were UK copies.Yes we all know about the Baby Reconsider enigma and a few Ric Tic stuff.

You only have to look at the bootleg Soul Sounds label, how many of these were originally

played on import copies ?.

This continued onto theTorch where many of the big sounds were played on UK labels Beatiful Night,Chubby Checker,

Lynne Randell,Nancy Ames,Levi Jackson,Lou Johnson, Bok To Back,Little Richard Etc.

About this time (1972) ,as if by some strange coincidence, boatloads of cut out records started to

appear in shops/markets all over the UK. e.g. Bostocks Bradford,F.L. Moores,Shude Hill Market Manchester.

So here's the scenario.

You are a record collector and you're now faced with thousand of records on labels you

have never heard of by artists you have never heard of either,Sandi Sheldon,Carstairs Rose Batiste.

You can't ask or expect the shop owner to play every record that looks interesting, so what do you do ?.

You use the knowledge/information that you already possess.

This means you look for the artists you already know via their releases on UK labels.

Edwin Starr/Darrell Banks for instance, this explains why Ric Tic/Revilot were two of the earliest import labels

to be sought after. because collectors would just buy anything on the label regardless of the artist.

How many people had heard of J.J.Barnes, before the Ric Tic stuff was found, even though there are two

UK releases by him prior to that ?.

Lets face it, which lunatic would buy or even consider a record called Sking In The Snow if they had not already

heard the Invitations on Stateside.

In addition to looking for artists they knew, I reckon early UK "crate diggers" also used other information

found on the labels of UK releases such as;

A Mala Recording

A Revilot Recording

A Goldwax Recording

A Solid Hitbound Production

The two labels which always did this were of course London-American and Stateside.

These two labels also issued most of the early northern sounds by percentage of releases

which means they were the source of most of the required information.

Therefore these two labels MUST be the most influential in the history of Northern Soul

Discuss.

Kegsy

Edited February 17, 2012 by Kegsy

[Dave Rimmer]

Whilst not wishing to disagree with regard to your argument in the early days of the Northern Soul scene, I'd hazard a guess that over the ensuing forty years the most influential label has been Kent UK.

Almost certainly in Europe, because in the main their part of the Northern Soul scne didn't really get going until the '80s, and not least because the Kent LPs became available in Europe.

So what has the company issued ? Over 100 LPs, with tracks from hundreds of different US labels, including more than a few unrelesed tracks. Getting on for 100 singles, almost half of which contain classics, and half previously unreleased tracks which have becone classics. Over 300 CDs, thousands upon thousands of tracks, label focused CDs, artist focused CDs, and compilations of clasics, rarities, and unreleased tracks.

So as I say, in the very early days Stateside and London American kickstarted the scene, and the whole collecting thing, but in the 40 years since, by breadth of variety, worldwide appeal, and sheer quantity, Kent UK has to have been the most influential label over the whole period of the Northern Soul Scene.

And they are still going.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Dave Rimmer

[Markw]

Casino Classics?

[Kegsy]

So as I say, in the very early days Stateside and London American kickstarted the scene, and the whole collecting thing, but in the 40 years since, by breadth of variety, worldwide appeal, and sheer quantity, Kent UK has to have been the most influential label over the whole period of the Northern Soul Scene.

I certainly cant argue regarding the quality and breadth of the Kent catalog.

.

Besides if I did Ady would probably put me in a caravan on Thorpe Park, alone with Swish.

My point is that If there had not been labels like london-American and Stateside would

there have ever been a Northern Soul scene to speak of.

Kegsy

[shelly]

In the early days upto 1970, then 80% where actually new releases, obviously this decreased as musical tastes developed in the states, so labels like London, Stateside Columbia(Okeh) who had the rights came into prominence.

But as the thread is about the most important labels - MIRWOOD has got to be there and don't forget the guys at Jayboy who released most of it over here - years later of course.

Shelly

[Guest allnightandy]

IMO

Okeh by a mile (columbia in UK)

Mirwood ok i know you said two

but

RicTic

[Godzilla]

Gotta be Soul Galore. Loads of classics on this label...

[shelly]

Don't forget Pye/Pye International, the stuff that came out over here on those labels is awesome if somewhat overlooked now because it was early days stuff. Shelly

Edited February 18, 2012 by shelly

[Guest allnightandy]

Are we not talking about real labels that wrote, arranged , produced and released the records

rather than made up labels that just took the original labels/artists work and reissued it for profit ?

[Premium Stuff]

Hi Kegsy

This could work well as a poll - what do you think?

Cheers

Richard

[Pete S]

I think most people are missing the point that Kegsy was making. He was talking about the birth of the underground/rare soul scene, and that the London and Stateside labels were the foundation that it was built upon. He didn't mean 'what are the most important labels as far as supplying the most records for the Northern scene to play'.

[Godzilla]

Gotta be Soul Galore. Loads of classics on this label...

Are we not talking about real labels that wrote, arranged , produced and released the records

rather than made up labels that just took the original labels/artists work and reissued it for profit ?

Surely you're not dissin' Simon?

[Guest allnightandy]

Surely you're not dissin' Simon?

I am pointing out that there are Real labels and there are made up /reissue labels

everybody bought the old reissue / boots at one time but these British label in a lot of cases reissued reissues !

I see you say you were influenced by the writings of the late Dave McCadden !

He was a good friend who's first trips to the Casino were with my our crowed back in the day !

I still have some of his original works somewhere and a couple of the first northern soul fanzines that he produced

RIP Dave !

[Godzilla]

I am pointing out that there are Real labels and there are made up /reissue labels...

...I see you say you were influenced by the writings of the late Dave McCadden !

He was a good friend who's first trips to the Casino were with my our crowed back in the day !

I still have some of his original works somewhere and a couple of the first northern soul fanzines that he produced

RIP Dave !

My pal too Andy.

Check his mags out again mate - you'll remember that he sometimes upset the more serious end of the Northern Soul community by lampooning their ernestness

[Guest allnightandy]

My pal too Andy.

Check his mags out again mate - you'll remember that he sometimes upset the more serious end of the Northern Soul community by lampooning their ernestness

I have a great piece he wrote about Keith Minshull couldn't possibly post it though ! LoL

He was fantastic with the written word and FAF ! and like you say didn't give a flying ***K who he upset !

I wonder if Richard Searling still feels a bit Jaded ? LoL

Edited February 18, 2012 by allnightandy

[Guest east rob]

I am pointing out that there are Real labels and there are made up /reissue labels

everybody bought the old reissue / boots at one time but these British label in a lot of cases reissued reissues !

I see you say you were influenced by the writings of the late Dave McCadden !

He was a good friend who's first trips to the Casino were with my our crowed back in the day !

I still have some of his original works somewhere and a couple of the first northern soul fanzines that he produced

RIP Dave !

I seem to remember almost every 45 I picked up at one point had his name scatched in the run-out, or "the fox" written in biro on the label.

he sure was a one-off. (thank god!)

Edited February 18, 2012 by east rob

[Guest allnightandy]

I seem to remember almost every 45 I picked up at one point had his name scatched in the run-out, or "the fox" written in biro on the label.

he sure was a one-off. (thank god!)

I think it's "The Kid " mate , but yes "his name liveth on" , on everybodies bloody records !

You could say "He left his mark " on the scene

Edited February 18, 2012 by allnightandy

[shelly]

I think most people are missing the point that Kegsy was making. He was talking about the birth of the underground/rare soul scene, and that the London and Stateside labels were the foundation that it was built upon. He didn't mean 'what are the most important labels as far as supplying the most records for the Northern scene to play'.

In that case look at my previous post re Pye/Pye International

Shelly

[Pete S]

In that case look at my previous post re Pye/Pye International

Shelly

I'd already seen it

[Guest east rob]

I think it's "The Kid " mate , but yes "his name liveth on" , on everybodies bloody records !

You could say "He left his mark " on the scene

thats right, the kid!! I.ll PM you

[Guest julesp1905]

Whilst I understand the topic starters point and what this thread is abou,t Labels that have influenced the UK NS Scene, i fail to see out Tamla Motown can be simply dismissed, plenty of Northern style tracks on the label. It has also been the entry point for countless numbers into the world of Northern soul, from the 60's right through to the 80's. It the motown records i loved than made me delve deeper and discover others!

[Roburt]

I have to agree with Kegsy (God, that was hard to say !!)

UK London-American begat UK Atlantic & all its goodies whilst UK Stateside begat UK Tamla Motown & loads of gems.

UK Sue had some great sides (especially if you include LP tracks as well) but it didn't have the 'strength in depth' of Kegsy's nominations, whilst Pye International (which begat Chess) and Cameo Parkway also put out numerous goodies but not enough again to be a real challenge.

The 'lesser' EMI labels (Columbia, HMV, Top Rank, etc.) never had the same volume of goodies as Stateside.

Soul City came along late and was an 'upstart' that followed the rare soul path BUT it crashed & burnt too early.

So for once, I believe Kegsy is not talking twaddle.

[Smudger]

When has Kegsy ever talked twaddle...!!!

....oooherr maybe sometimes late at an all nighter.

Have to agree though re his original choices,when i first started chasing soul 7" most wants were on Stateside or London American .

[Kegsy]

I have to agree with Kegsy (God, that was hard to say !!)

UK London-American begat UK Atlantic & all its goodies whilst UK Stateside begat UK Tamla Motown & loads of gems.

UK Sue had some great sides (especially if you include LP tracks as well) but it didn't have the 'strength in depth' of Kegsy's nominations, whilst Pye International (which begat Chess) and Cameo Parkway also put out numerous goodies but not enough again to be a real challenge.

The 'lesser' EMI labels (Columbia, HMV, Top Rank, etc.) never had the same volume of goodies as Stateside.

Soul City came along late and was an 'upstart' that followed the rare soul path BUT it crashed & burnt too early.

So for once, I believe Kegsy is not talking twaddle.

Have to agree though re his original choices,when i first started chasing soul 7" most wants were on Stateside or London American

Holy Moly two people have agreed with me in one day !!!!!!!!!!!!.

Is this the start of a trend ?.

May have to set up a Kegsy Fan Club.

5 quid membership.

female members get undraped photo and some used underwear.

Kegsy

[Steve L]

I have to agree with Kegsy (God, that was hard to say !!)

UK London-American begat UK Atlantic & all its goodies whilst UK Stateside begat UK Tamla Motown & loads of gems.

UK Sue had some great sides (especially if you include LP tracks as well) but it didn't have the 'strength in depth' of Kegsy's nominations, whilst Pye International (which begat Chess) and Cameo Parkway also put out numerous goodies but not enough again to be a real challenge.

The 'lesser' EMI labels (Columbia, HMV, Top Rank, etc.) never had the same volume of goodies as Stateside.

Soul City came along late and was an 'upstart' that followed the rare soul path BUT it crashed & burnt too early.

So for once, I believe Kegsy is not talking twaddle.

Begat, there's a word I haven't seen much since I last read the bible

Might adopt it as word of the month!

[Roburt]

With regard to laying hands on import US soul 45's back in the 60's .........

It was easy to order US soul 45's from Soul City Record Shop from 1966 onwards though usually most in-demand items went immediately out of stock (though they did have issue copies of Tobi Legend in stock for over 2 years).

From 1968, F L Moores in Leighton Buzzard was the place to shop -- when it was based out of the old (detached?) house on the main drag from L B railway station into the town itself. All the downstairs rooms were set out with shelves of import 45's on each wall & you could ask after a particular 45, artist (Soul Brothers Six), label or if a good returning customer even pull 45's off the shelves yourself to scan what was there. By 1970, the shop was doing such good business, it had outgrown the old house & moved to commercial office type premises above a row of shops nearer (in?) the town centre.

To begin with, F L Moores buying technique was a bit of a scattergun affair as can be seen from their ad in US trade mags (see below).

Blues & Soul were soon on the scene as well, selling named imports & soul packs via the mag & their Contempo Sales office in Paddington.

Import 45's could also be bought off UK based 45 auction lists by the late 60's. Randy's Record Shop of Galatin, Tenn had good mail order catalogues & posted to the UK. if you sent in a wants list, you sometimes got lucky & a radio stn promo of a (then) rare 45 would arrive packaged with the more known items you had actually ordered from their booklet.

PLUS, if you knew just where to write, you could request a big list of old 45's sent out (monthly?) by a record warehouse in the New York area and buy non sold stock copies (they had bought in) for 25c each (+ P&P & import duty).

I always regretted not ordering one of the warehouse's 'tea-chest' full of soul 45's which they sold off very cheaply (the shipping was always the stumbling block for me -- expensive at the time on my wages). Though as these boxes contained the stuff they thought 'too obscure' to list by artist & song title, they must have contained some rare stuff. Also, there would have been more than one copy of some items, not too appealing to a collector with little cash & no big crowd to sell stuff onto.

[Guest enchantedrythm]

GOLDEN WORLD

RIC TIC

[Guest ScooterNik]

I have to agree with the original post, certainly by his own criteria. Obviously you can't dismiss the Motown stable, but I still keep an eye out for London and Stateside releases now, and they do have the advantage of still turning up regularly on car boot sales!