Guest Andy Kempster Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 are they a good thing? i have a bit of an issue with this new gift payment craze that seems to be escalating at the moment maybe its just me being a grumpy git but surely it is just an inscure hidden cost leaving you open to risk do you have the same security as with a standard paypal payment?
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 If you only send the gift payment to people you know and trust you should be alright. If you are unsure, just don't do it.
Kevinkent Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I'm sure that you don't Andy, and I'm sure others will expand on that. I think I'm correct in saying that paying by gift is against Paypal Terms & Conditions if you are paying for goods/services purchased. A seller that asks you to do this is in breach of those T&C's and according to Paypal is at risk of having their account suspended/closed. Personally, I don't mind gifting to a mate or someone i know and trust, but I do object to being asked to or told that I must. Account for your fees and price accordingly. - Kev
Pomonkey Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Doesn't matter if you like it or not Pete - keep using it and Paypal will stop you, happened to me last year, had a dozen or so buyers send payment as gift, then got a Paypal message telling me they were cutting off my ability to receive gift amounts, ie they spotted a pattern and moved unilaterally to make sure they'd keep getting their $% even though they had no idea what the payments were for. Plus some countries - Germany for one - don't allow it at all Can't win huh.
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I'm sure that you don't Andy, and I'm sure others will expand on that. I think I'm correct in saying that paying by gift is against Paypal Terms & Conditions if you are paying for goods/services purchased. A seller that asks you to do this is in breach of those T&C's and according to Paypal is at risk of having their account suspended/closed. Personally, I don't mind gifting to a mate or someone i know and trust, but I do object to being asked to or told that I must. Account for your fees and price accordingly. - Kev Sorry Kev, don't agree. I keep them as cheap as possible and undercut practically everyone else. I can't do this if I have loads of fees to pay. People who buy off me and pay via paypal gift know this and are perfectly happy to do so, it costs them nothing and they know they will get records at a good price, well packed and usually next day delivery. n.b. if they didn't want to do so I would obviously still sell them the record Edited February 13, 2012 by Pete S
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Doesn't matter if you like it or not Pete - keep using it and Paypal will stop you, happened to me last year, had a dozen or so buyers send payment as gift, then got a Paypal message telling me they were cutting off my ability to receive gift amounts, ie they spotted a pattern and moved unilaterally to make sure they'd keep getting their $% even though they had no idea what the payments were for. Plus some countries - Germany for one - don't allow it at all Can't win huh. I'm not sure how this works then because every week for the last 2 years I've been sending my rent as a gift payment, that's over 100 payments! I also sent £18 grand to a customer who's records I was selling for them via paypal gift last year.
boba Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I think I'm correct in saying that paying by gift is against Paypal Terms & Conditions if you are paying for goods/services purchased. A seller that asks you to do this is in breach of those T&C's and according to Paypal is at risk of having their account suspended/closed. this is correct, but it's also equally against paypal policy to ask people to pay fees, which is what everyone on here was doing before the gift thing.
Guest Andy Kempster Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 i'm not sure it does cost nothing tho thats the issue i have been having with myself i know the fee is only nominal but i am very much of the opinion that if a seller agrees a price then any additional cost should be carried by them and not the buyer, surely thay should work this into their selling price and give you the opportunity to make a decision based on the fully price quoted. it seems to me that there is a huge amount of naivity involved with this process, myself included and no-one really understands all the rules that go with with it, i have been caught out a couple of times with bank charges having placed an order payed by gift, taking my bank account to the wire then having a few extra quid added to the transaction taking me into the red.
Kevinkent Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Sorry Kev, don't agree. I keep them as cheap as possible and undercut practically everyone else. I can't do this if I have loads of fees to pay. People who buy off me and pay via paypal gift know this and are perfectly happy to do so, it costs them nothing and they know they will get records at a good price, well packed and usually next day delivery. n.b. if they didn't want to do so I would obviously still sell them the record Pete, your reputation precedes you. I'd have no problem in gifting you a payment - but as I stated (re-itterated by Pomonkey) Paypal might. I do object though to purchasing a record and later being told that only Paypal gift would be acceptable as "there's nothing in the rules against it". That wasn't from you I might add, but it was a purchase on here which I didn't continue with. - Kev
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 i'm not sure it does cost nothing tho thats the issue i have been having with myself i know the fee is only nominal but i am very much of the opinion that if a seller agrees a price then any additional cost should be carried by them and not the buyer, surely thay should work this into their selling price and give you the opportunity to make a decision based on the fully price quoted. it seems to me that there is a huge amount of naivity involved with this process, myself included and no-one really understands all the rules that go with with it, i have been caught out a couple of times with bank charges having placed an order payed by gift, taking my bank account to the wire then having a few extra quid added to the transaction taking me into the red. No if you have funds in there it costs nothing, if you don't then there is a charge. I wouldn't want anyone paying me via paypal to have to pay that charge, and I would pay it instead.
Kevinkent Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 this is correct, but it's also equally against paypal policy to ask people to pay fees, which is what everyone on here was doing before the gift thing. Bob, you are quite correct. I wasn't advocating that though, but rather that the sellers fees are taken into account when they price their goods. - Kev.
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Also I think this works both ways. Putting my buyers head on now, not sellers, I buy a lot of records off ebay, I mean 10 or more every week, and I don't really mind having to pay a fee to pay by paypal if necessary because when you think of the rigmarole (?) that you used to have to go through to pay someone in the States, it's worth losing a few dollars. I used to have to get international money orders drawn up, then post them, or send cash in an envelope or do a dodgy western union transfer before paypal came along. Even in the UK, used to have to send a cheque which meant a trip to the post office and a seven day wait for it to clear.
Guest Andy Kempster Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 perhaps i'm getting mixed up about it then, my paypal goes through my credit card so that is probably where it comes from
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Bob, you are quite correct. I wasn't advocating that though, but rather that the sellers fees are taken into account when they price their goods. - Kev. People used to put, even on ebay, paypal accepted 4% extra. Ebay used to let most of these go through.
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 perhaps i'm getting mixed up about it then, my paypal goes through my credit card so that is probably where it comes from Yes you would get charged for that Andy
Guest Andy Kempster Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 that'll be getting changed back to debit card from now
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 that'll be getting changed back to debit card from now I think you may get charged for that as well, I'm under the impression that you can only send a gift if you have it as funds in your paypal account.
Kevinkent Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I'm not sure how this works then because every week for the last 2 years I've been sending my rent as a gift payment, that's over 100 payments! I also sent £18 grand to a customer who's records I was selling for them via paypal gift last year. Pete, it works exactly the same as Ebay's condemnation of bootlegs. Advertising them is not allowed, selling them is not allowed. Both happen frequently and often on multiple items. They might even get reported by numerous folk on here, to no avail because they can't be ar$ed. But they do have the power to act and just occasionally might. I heard of an Ebay/Paypal transaction where a very expensive violin was traded. The buyer professed it was a copy. Paypal refunded but Paypal(or Ebay) demanded proof from the buyer that the violin had been destroyed! Now wouldn't that set the cat amongst the pigeons if they did the same with vinyl.lol. Stay lucky! - Kev.
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Pete, it works exactly the same as Ebay's condemnation of bootlegs. Advertising them is not allowed, selling them is not allowed. Both happen frequently and often on multiple items. They might even get reported by numerous folk on here, to no avail because they can't be ar$ed. But they do have the power to act and just occasionally might. I heard of an Ebay/Paypal transaction where a very expensive violin was traded. The buyer professed it was a copy. Paypal refunded but Paypal(or Ebay) demanded proof from the buyer that the violin had been destroyed! Now wouldn't that set the cat amongst the pigeons if they did the same with vinyl.lol. Stay lucky! - Kev. Yeah I heard about that, it's on one of the anti-paypal sites, and there are a lot of them!
Kegsy Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Oi Pete Maybe you could send a Paypal gift to Molynuex so your beloved Wolves could buy some decent players. Kegsy
Pomonkey Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I started a thread here with all the details of that violin transaction when it happened, basically to grant a refund Paypal insisted the buyer first destroyed the violin instead of sending it back to the seller, crazy, imagine it was a rare soul 45 and you were told to smash it to get your money back....
Denbo Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 No if you have funds in there it costs nothing, if you don't then there is a charge. I wouldn't want anyone paying me via paypal to have to pay that charge, and I would pay it instead. But do your customers know that Pete? I'm not having a go, you kow me, I'm just trying to help clarify things further.
Denbo Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I think you may get charged for that as well, I'm under the impression that you can only send a gift if you have it as funds in your paypal account. I also think that is correct.
Pete S Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 But do your customers know that Pete? I'm not having a go, you kow me, I'm just trying to help clarify things further. They tend to realise when they go to pay it and see they are being charged, then they email me to tell me this, and I say to make it so that I pay the charge
boba Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 People used to put, even on ebay, paypal accepted 4% extra. Ebay used to let most of these go through. They really cracked down on that. There's a reason you don't ever see that today, it's not like the situation of paying fees has changed.
Mrtag Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 There was a big thread done on this some 12months or more ago that went into all the details and pitfalls of gift payments !!
Suinoz Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 There was a big thread done on this some 12months or more ago that went into all the details and pitfalls of gift payments !! So if you are selling and wanting payment via paypal...What is the exact % amount paypal will take from each transaction ?? Would bank transfer be a better way of receiving payment or are there hidden charges there ? Just enquiring as i may want to sell some really high quality tunes in the near future. Thanks for any help, Tony. OZ.
boba Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 There was a big thread done on this some 12months or more ago that went into all the details and pitfalls of gift payments !! yeah, but people don't listen to, understand, or want to take advice until they get burned...
boba Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) So if you are selling and wanting payment via paypal...What is the exact % amount paypal will take from each transaction ?? Would bank transfer be a better way of receiving payment or are there hidden charges there ? Just enquiring as i may want to sell some really high quality tunes in the near future. Thanks for any help, Tony. OZ. Here is their fee schedule: https://cms.paypal.c...rketing_us/fees Merchant Fees for transactions within the same country: https://cms.paypal.c...t/merchant_fees International fee calculator: https://www.paypal.c...side&countries= Basically it's about 3% if you're within the same country, 4% if you're outside of the buyer's country. So when people say add 4-5% for fees, not only are they breaking the rules by making you pay, they're also profiting off your "fees". Edited February 14, 2012 by boba
Sebastian Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I'm not having a go at anyone here, but what I personally don't understand is why a lot of people are of the opinion that a service like the one PayPal offers should be free? As if it's som kind a human right to free of charge get payments sent to you by using a system/service which someone else finances. I get charged 4% or so everytime someone pays with a VISA/credit card in the record shop that I run here in my hometown. I don't ask the customers to pay $52 on a $50 purchase. I have to take that fee on the chin or calculate those 4% into my prices. Edited February 14, 2012 by Sebastian
Chalky Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 As as seller, you should factor any fees into your sale price, if you pay VAT you don't give a price then charge the customer an extra 20% to cover your tax bill do you. You factor any charges, tax etc into your price. If any prospective buyer isn't happy with the price you offer then they can either negotiate or go elsewhere.
Sleeps45 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Doesn't matter if you like it or not Pete - keep using it and Paypal will stop you, happened to me last year, had a dozen or so buyers send payment as gift, then got a Paypal message telling me they were cutting off my ability to receive gift amounts, ie they spotted a pattern and moved unilaterally to make sure they'd keep getting their $% even though they had no idea what the payments were for. Plus some countries - Germany for one - don't allow it at all Can't win huh. samething happened to me last year..paypal disabled my gift option
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