Taxman To Hit Ebay Sellers

[Roburt]

TODAY'S NEWS > Those who make a bit of money on the side through selling on eBay may not even be aware of the need to inform the taxman. The number of people trying to make a bit of money on the side through this means has been growing dramatically as many more people feel the pinch, which means many thousands of people may have walked into a tax nightmare without realising it.

Anyone making money by TRADING via eBay needs to contact their local office, inform them that they are direct-selling, and start filling out a tax return.

If they only sell a few items on eBay, and aren't traders, they are not likely to be liable to tax on what they make and will not be targeted. However, it's a fine line between someone who sells a few things and someone who trades, and it's essential you know which side of the line you sit on.

Gary Ashford, who represents the Chartered Institute of Taxation on HMRC's Compliance Reform Forum says: "Anyone who is worried that they have been underpaying tax - whether deliberately or in error, and whether they are covered by this new campaign or not - should get professional advice without delay. Penalties will generally be less severe for taxpayers who come forward voluntarily to put their affairs in order with HMRC."

I guess that now the guys from HMRC will be doing checks on just who is selling on a regular basis on the bay and cross-referencing this info with those people's tax returns.

BIG BROTHER strikes again !!

[Pete S]

TODAY'S NEWS > Those who make a bit of money on the side through selling on eBay may not even be aware of the need to inform the taxman. The number of people trying to make a bit of money on the side through this means has been growing dramatically as many more people feel the pinch, which means many thousands of people may have walked into a tax nightmare without realising it.

Anyone making money by TRADING via eBay needs to contact their local office, inform them that they are direct-selling, and start filling out a tax return.

If they only sell a few items on eBay, and aren't traders, they are not likely to be liable to tax on what they make and will not be targeted. However, it's a fine line between someone who sells a few things and someone who trades, and it's essential you know which side of the line you sit on.

Gary Ashford, who represents the Chartered Institute of Taxation on HMRC's Compliance Reform Forum says: "Anyone who is worried that they have been underpaying tax - whether deliberately or in error, and whether they are covered by this new campaign or not - should get professional advice without delay. Penalties will generally be less severe for taxpayers who come forward voluntarily to put their affairs in order with HMRC."

I guess that now the guys from HMRC will be doing checks on just who is selling on a regular basis on the bay and cross-referencing this info with those people's tax returns.

BIG BROTHER strikes again !!

while the rich f*ckers get away with it all as usual...

[Guest lifeandsoul]

this is not 'new' and quick search found that i mentioned this in 2007 on a similar thread.

Ebay is the obvious place to start but don't be fooled that they don't look at forums like this even to obtain information. I have dealt with enquiries where HMRC have picked information from sites where individuals have let it be known that they have a holiday home available for letting (for example), I know of at least one promoter who has been investigated. They used to trot around looking at cards in newsagent windows - no need now, just sit in front of a PC all day.

[Chalky]

Taxman been on to ebayers some time and eBay introducing shops will make it easier for the taxman to trace those who do more than just sell a few bits on the side.

[Pomonkey]

It's already happened here in the States - paypal sends a report to the IRS if you receive more than $20,000 in a year and have over transactions, then it's up to you to prove its not all taxable.

Pretty impossible to come up w documentation - say I bought a record for cash 4 years ago at a record fair for $500, obviously there's no receipt, sell it now for the same amount, actually make 0 profit but based on this the IRS can say the whole $500 on the sale is taxable income. Nightmare.

[Glynthornhill]

This is the familiar rouse the media trots out re HMRC. They like other organisations are simply too busy , understaffed and overworked to run round searching for sellers who fail to declare income.

Hell they are out on sweetener dinners with the big organisations who owe millions in back tax as reported recently. So doubt they have time to target any specific site .

Just scare tactics ...keep the working class down the bottom divide and rule style as usual

[Guest]

This is the familiar rouse the media trots out re HMRC. They like other organisations are simply too busy , understaffed and overworked to run round searching for sellers who fail to declare income.

Hell they are out on sweetener dinners with the big organisations who owe millions in back tax as reported recently. So doubt they have time to target any specific site .

Just scare tactics ...keep the working class down the bottom divide and rule style as usual

Like the scary-mercials of the last government, its cheaper to have people think the mysterons are watching you

Penguins, Pelicans and tax inspectors...................THEY CAN ALL SHOVE THEIR BILLS UP THEIR ARSE!!

[Guest gordon russell]

theres only one harry rednapp......one harry rednapp!!!!.......sorry thought this was a footy thread

[Steve G]

So this could be another form of triple taxation, for example if you purchased goods in the first place (and lets not talk records here for a moment) you were probably

1) taxed on your income that purchased the goods in the first place

2) paid VAT on the goods as well when you purchased them

3) and now pay tax when you sell the goods you purchased.

Give a man a fookin break!

And this from the same organisation that 'wrote off' £11 Billion in unpaid company taxes at the stroke of a pen.

Put Stephen Hester in charge of the Inland Revenue.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Steve G

[macca]

Have the Greeks been informed?

[Steve G]

Nah, course not Macca, they'll carry on as usual. No tax men there, they got rid of them.

[Guest gordon russell]

So this could be another form of triple taxation, for example if you purchased goods in the first place (and lets not talk records here for a moment) you were probably

1) taxed on your income that purchased the goods in the first place

2) paid VAT on the goods as well when you purchased them

3) and now pay tax when you sell the goods you purchased.

Give a man a fookin break!

And this from the same organisation that 'wrote off' £11 Billion in unpaid company taxes at the stroke of a pen.

Put Stephen Hester in charge of the Inland Revenue.

Whats worse steve were/are the cosy dinners at posh restuarants where top tax insectors give the nod/wink to many big company bosses that they'll waive their tax liabilities.......don,t mean cases where companies can,t afford the tax or it will shut the company down putting loads out of work.......just don,t want to pay it

Edited February 9, 2012 by gordon russell

[Guest Ste Brazil]

Stuff 'em, carry on as normal, it's just yet another scare tactic-bunch of corrupt bastards.

[Guest allnightandy]

When i eventually sell mine they won't be getting a F*****G bean from me

i would rather smash them first , All my records were bought with money that i had already paid tax on

so they can go take a running jump !

I have paid my taxes for 40 years never had a day out of work , never claimed a penny off the state

So they can (to put it mildly) SOD OFF !

[JOE TORQUAY]

WE CAN ALL USE THE HARRY REDKNAPP DEFENCE.

CAN'T READ, CAN'T SPELL, DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, I NEVER TELL A LIE, I'M REALLY A SAINT,

JUST A THOUGHT IF HE CAN'T READ OR SPELL WHAT'S HE DOING DRIVING HIS RANGE ROVER ABOUT'

I THOUGHT IT WAS ILLEGAL TO DRIVE IF YOU CAN'T READ ???.

JOE.

[Roburt]

CAN'T READ, CAN'T SPELL, DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, I NEVER TELL A LIE, I'M REALLY A SAINT

..... You missed out that he also doesn't know what an e-mail is, has never sent a fax and can't text.

Yet he lives on a street where everyone is a millionaire (including him). Someone really must have smiled on him in the past as he never bothers about money or even collecting his legitimate wages.

Pull the other one please; I've got some land on the moon that I am willing to sell to any & all of the member's on that jury, anyone got their addresses?

[Guest giant]

theres only one harry rednapp......one harry rednapp!!!!.......sorry thought this was a footy thread

:lol:

[Guest giant]

Have the Greeks been informed?

:lol:

[boba]

It's already happened here in the States - paypal sends a report to the IRS if you receive more than $20,000 in a year and have over transactions, then it's up to you to prove its not all taxable.

Pretty impossible to come up w documentation - say I bought a record for cash 4 years ago at a record fair for $500, obviously there's no receipt, sell it now for the same amount, actually make 0 profit but based on this the IRS can say the whole $500 on the sale is taxable income. Nightmare.

I'm sure you know it is possible to come up with documentation if you run your record selling as a business and do accounting for it. It's difficult to say that it's a business though if you're really selling just to get more records and pursue the hobby. I guess the 20k limit sort of accounts for that -- if someone gets more than 20k in their paypal account, it probably does exist as some sort of business.

[Pomonkey]

If you haven't documented the cost of all the records you've bought over the years then it's beyond tough to come up with basis Bob, sure if you set up as a business from day 1 you can keep a formal inventory but most of us built up stacks over the years. And even now if you buy a $$$ 45 at a record fair do you really think you're going to get a receipt from the seller.

On top of that, I help out friends in Europe by bidding on records for them w sellers who refuse to sell to non-US buyers, they then reimburse me for the cost of these records/shipping....but all this counts towards my $20k too and if I get audited will have to get affidavits from all of them to avoid these amounts all being counted as taxable too. Totally beyond a huge pain in

the arse.

[boba]

If you haven't documented the cost of all the records you've bought over the years then it's beyond tough to come up with basis Bob, sure if you set up as a business from day 1 you can keep a formal inventory but most of us built up stacks over the years. And even now if you buy a $$$ 45 at a record fair do you really think you're going to get a receipt from the seller.

On top of that, I help out friends in Europe by bidding on records for them w sellers who refuse to sell to non-US buyers, they then reimburse me for the cost of these records/shipping....but all this counts towards my $20k too and if I get audited will have to get affidavits from all of them to avoid these amounts all being counted as taxable too. Totally beyond a huge pain in

the arse.

I agree, I was just saying it was possible, not that it was convenient, plus there's a 20k floor which makes it less likely at least for casual collectors. My friend who bids for me on some stuff actually has me write checks directly to "discover card" so it doesn't flow through his bank account (not sure if that's foolproof though).

[Dylan]

I agree, I was just saying it was possible, not that it was convenient, plus there's a 20k floor which makes it less likely at least for casual collectors. My friend who bids for me on some stuff actually has me write checks directly to "discover card" so it doesn't flow through his bank account (not sure if that's foolproof though).

probably not fool proof. If somebody can exist without spendsing money that arouses suspicion.

[jocko]

probably not fool proof. If somebody can exist without spendsing money that arouses suspicion.

Although I think thats likely to be the slightly more brutal and lots less subtle Organised Crime Unit looking into that one.

Re the resource issue, hot tip in our industry is that there may be no more resources available in HMRC but there is currently a large re-alignment of people from current reporting duties, ie. collation if information, to investigation, particularly in sme and sole trader area!

[boba]

probably not fool proof. If somebody can exist without spendsing money that arouses suspicion.

he still has money flow through his account. but he deals in records and a lot of those are in cash so he can stay mostly under the radar. how would they know about his record dealing and the corresponding costs / profits? I don't even know what records he has to sell...

[Denbo]

while the rich f*ckers get away with it all as usual...

Know what you mean Pete. Seems the more you earn the more you get away with.

[Ian Seaman]

ebay tell the taxman if your earning too much on ebay anyway, they have done since 2001, i got caught a few years back selling antiques for big money and ended up with a tax bill !! having multiple accounts doesn't help you anymore lol

[Upthejunction]

ebay tell the taxman if your earning too much on ebay anyway, they have done since 2001, i got caught a few years back selling antiques for big money and ended up with a tax bill !! having multiple accounts doesn't help you anymore lol

Does it also work the other way round, If you make losses on records, can you reclaim tax back ?

[Mrtag]

Does it also work the other way round, If you make losses on records, can you reclaim tax back ?

:lol:

[Geeselad]

This is such crap, is this to claw back what they lost on the Radnap case yesterday! How many Mills spent to get the Tax on a few hundred thou!

[DennieFitz]

When i eventually sell mine they won't be getting a F*****G bean from me

i would rather smash them first , All my records were bought with money that i had already paid tax on

so they can go take a running jump !

I have paid my taxes for 40 years never had a day out of work , never claimed a penny off the state

So they can (to put it mildly) SOD OFF !

Well said mate

[boba]

Does it also work the other way round, If you make losses on records, can you reclaim tax back ?

yes, if you do the accounting correctly. that's the whole point of accounting.

[Jaco]

Well said mate

When i eventually sell mine they won't be getting a F*****G bean from me

i would rather smash them first , All my records were bought with money that i had already paid tax on

so they can go take a running jump !

I have paid my taxes for 40 years never had a day out of work , never claimed a penny off the state

So they can (to put it mildly) SOD OFF !

All well and good but not entirely relevant.

Whether or not you have bought records with money that you have paid tax on is not the issue.

The issue is whether or not you are carrying out a trade, something that would probably not apply to 99% of people who are selling records on e-bay who are on this forum.

The Inland Revenue, who are unlikely to have significant resources available to establish a trading position on any great scale,would have to consider what are known as the "badges of trade." For people owning records, for personal use in the first instance, and then selling them on, even at a profit, in order to acquire more records for personal use, the "badges of trade" argument is not likely to be sustained.

There is a concept of "pride of possession" which extends to chatels such as records, books, works of art etc that distinguishes such assets from trading stock.

I think that most people on here can relax and not expect any contact from HMRC anyday soon

[Guest allnightandy]

All well and good but not entirely relevant.

Whether or not you have bought records with money that you have paid tax on is not the issue.

The issue is whether or not you are carrying out a trade, something that would probably not apply to 99% of people who are selling records on e-bay who are on this forum.

The Inland Revenue, who are unlikely to have significant resources available to establish a trading position on any great scale,would have to consider what are known as the "badges of trade." For people owning records, for personal use in the first instance, and then selling them on, even at a profit, in order to acquire more records for personal use, the "badges of trade" argument is not likely to be sustained.

There is a concept of "pride of possession" which extends to chatels such as records, books, works of art etc that distinguishes such assets from trading stock.

I think that most people on here can relax and not expect any contact from HMRC anyday soon

Just one question on that point

If Lord Snooty decides to sell his Rembrant painting and it brings £27,000,000 at Sotherbys . Does he have to pay tax on that ?

[Jaco]

Just one question on that point

If Lord Snooty decides to sell his Rembrant painting and it brings £27,000,000 at Sotherbys . Does he have to pay tax on that ?

Assuming he makes a profit, Capital Gains Tax is almost certain to apply.

[Guest]

The Tax man can shove it up his arse dont they bloody get enough !!!

[Sleeps45]

if you make over 20k and over 200 transactions on paypal then they will send you a 1099k form if you did not meet both of the 2 mentioned requirements paypal will not be required to send you a 1099k

[Dylan]

Just one question on that point

If Lord Snooty decides to sell his Rembrant painting and it brings £27,000,000 at Sotherbys . Does he have to pay tax on that ?

a chinese vase sold last year for something like 30 million anfd there was a massive tax bill that went with that sale.

[Dylan]

if you make over 20k and over 200 transactions on paypal then they will send you a 1099k form if you did not meet both of the 2 mentioned requirements paypal will not be required to send you a 1099k

this might be a US thing ?

[boba]

this might be a US thing ?

yeah, 1099 is a US tax form. Don't know if any income reporting happens in other countries.

[Sleeps45]

this might be a US thing ?

yes in the us that is

[Chalky]

In the news today, eBay and Amazon marketplace have been ordered to hand over the details of millions of its members to the HMRC..

[sepia]

when i sell up.....

ill post mine on here.

cash & cheques only please.

[Guest SteveJohnston]

I remember when I first received a wage paid into my bank account there was an older guy we worked with that got the company to pay him by Cheque pay cash, he flatly refused to open a bank account! In his words "as much as possible he was not going to leave a paper trail of his life for the bastard tax inspectors!

He learned this lesson after the tax man ruined his father, in one of the meeting at there fathers farm a tax inspector told his father you should have all documents in place for everything you buy or sell right down to every single egg box bought or box of eggs sold, or no paper trail at all would be better. So he took the inspector at his word! All his working life that's what he's done payment in cash or nothing bought or sold.

Steve J

[Guest Brooky]

I can't see HMRC taking this on.

I was a sole trader until recently and was for some six years. However, I have other employment too and a pension both of which are taxed. When I made a loss on my sole trader business I received payments from HMRC from the tax I had paid on PAYE income. It works both ways with the taxman. He cannot take from profits and then lose interest in you when you make a loss.

So imagine this....you buy 10 records in a year for £100 each and sell them via eBay and they only fetch £50 each. You've made a loss of £500. If you have other income that has been taxed then you will receive a rebate from Uncle Taxman a a result of your losses. Auctions are unpredictable and this could easily happen. I don't think HMRC have the resources to be chasing this sort of thing in relation to the low level seller. Once you start having websites and are identifiable as a business then the rules will obviously change....but for ordinary Joes....no...they won't be interested...it will be classed as a hobby.

That said, I'm no expert so each to his own!

Edited May 17, 2012 by Brooky

[Chalky]

It's think HMRC will take on eBay etc. it is quite clear there are some using eBay as a business. Man ofbose with BIN listings rather than auction listings are one such group Jo will b truth according to th reporter on t'radio.

All th relevant info is held by eBay, amazon and other such sites.

If the HMRC comes after you with a bill you will have to prove what you paid for the item and what is profit or not.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-money/business-tax/ebay-amp-gumtree-bewarethe-taxman-clicketh-16160073.html

[Amsterdam Russ]

There is a detailed posting in Q&A form on an ebay help forum that touches on this matter. Most of it deals with tax issues per-se for small business and is not completely specific to those selling on ebay, but there is relevance if you dig through the details.

https://members.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=talkinpeace

For example, the opening question and answer...

Q: Do I have to register with the Revenue?

A: If you are selling your own belongings bought for your own use and surplus to requirements, NO.

If you are buying stuff to sell, YES.

[Flanny]

if you make over 20k and over 200 transactions on paypal then they will send you a 1099k form if you did not meet both of the 2 mentioned requirements paypal will not be required to send you a 1099k

is that in total over many years or just one year ive bought over 20 k in last ten years but sold nowhere near that

and funny no ones touched on paypal accounts ??????????????????????

[Sleeps45]

this might be a US thing ?

in the United States..sorry

[Guest giant]

while the rich f*ckers get away with it all as usual...

VERY WELL SAID MR SMITH