Sorry to consistently be a hater, just wanted to hear people's opinions of this. I recently got the first milton wright on alston:

3716 - Milton Wright - Keep It Up / Silence That You Keep

I was overall disappointed as instead of being a killer rare groove record to me it just sounds like an okay stevie wonder imitation. The b-side was a little better and I would even consider playing it on my show but I don't get the demand for this record. It definitely doesn't have much of that dark "rare groove" type sound. I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions of this 45. Also, is the second alston 45 better / worse / similar sounding / different sounding? Thanks in advance.

Edited January 26, 201213 yr by boba

I only have his "Friends & Buddies" album which I haven't played for years. Your post was a nice excuse to dig it out again. I sure disagree with you re. "keep it up". This may sounds a bit dull at home but once you've heard it booming out the speakers in a club you sure know why there's demand for it. Can't hear any similarities to Stevie Wonder. whereas flipside "silence that you keep" is infact a stevie wonder imitation.

What are the tracks of the 2nd 45? Are they off the album as well?

I love both sides of the 45. Clearly we have differing tastes.

  On 26/01/2012 at 23:44, phillyDaveG said:

I love both sides of the 45. Clearly we have differing tastes.

I will try to listen more. I actually can't find where I put the johnny washington on sandwash that I posted about before that everyone else thought was good to try to relisten to.

  On 27/01/2012 at 00:26, boba said:

I will try to listen more. I actually can't find where I put the johnny washington on sandwash that I posted about before that everyone else thought was good to try to relisten to.

Frankly, if even you can't figure out where you've put your own records, then the rest of us are plainly f*cked. C'mon Bob, man up..........

Ian D

  On 27/01/2012 at 00:42, Ian Dewhirst said:

Frankly, if even you can't figure out where you've put your own records, then the rest of us are plainly f*cked. C'mon Bob, man up..........

Ian D

dude i have a lot of records. my shelves are actually all in alphabetical order but these new arrivals are in some weird inbetween limbo zone.

We all have different tastes Bob and would be boring if we all liked the same stuff.

Can't remember last time I heard the Milton Wright so will have a listen first opportunity.

Always loved 'Keep it up', especially the long version on the white demo, but definitely a club sound! Was 'Brothers and sisters', the second single? another great dancer with a bass line that rattles your spleen...

I remember it being popular with the 2-step/rare groove scene back in the early 90's in London, I wasn't too impressed with it myself, not my cup of tea at all.

  On 27/01/2012 at 09:18, Tony Smith said:

I remember it being popular with the 2-step/rare groove scene back in the early 90's in London, I wasn't too impressed with it myself, not my cup of tea at all.

that's what I wanted it to sound like (like many other TK singles that sound like that) but it wasn't that rare groove or two step sounding to me.

Vaguely related, what's the best (or at least most popular) rare groove 45 of all time? "90% of me is you"? "Everybody loves the sunshine"? or something else?

Yes, definitely sounds better played loud in a club. I agree with you Bob, when I got the LP and listened at home, I too was underwhelmed.

  On 27/01/2012 at 09:26, boba said:

that's what I wanted it to sound like (like many other TK singles that sound like that) but it wasn't that rare groove or two step sounding to me.

Vaguely related, what's the best (or at least most popular) rare groove 45 of all time? "90% of me is you"? "Everybody loves the sunshine"? or something else?

Not that I had anything to do with that scene, but "Everybody Loves..." is the one for me at least.

  On 27/01/2012 at 09:26, boba said:

Vaguely related, what's the best (or at least most popular) rare groove 45 of all time? "90% of me is you"? "Everybody loves the sunshine"? or something else?

Surely two of the biggest rare groove tracks played were the Jackson Sisters - I believe in Miracles and Maceo & The Macks - Across the Tracks

  On 27/01/2012 at 09:35, John Reed said:

Surely two of the biggest rare groove tracks played were the Jackson Sisters - I believe in Miracles and Maceo & The Macks - Across the Tracks

I believe you (since you're on the scene), and the jackson sisters makes sense, but the maceo track sounds more like just funk to me. Even the JBs monorail is more rare groove sounding.

Also, how come nobody ever talks about the two totally different versions of the jackson sisters (prophecy vs. polydor). The polydor has harder drums and is more club oriented in my opinion.

I seem to recall "Am I The Same Girl" Barbara Acklin/Young Holt getting hammered as well....

  On 27/01/2012 at 09:40, Tony Smith said:

I seem to recall "Am I The Same Girl" Barbara Acklin/Young Holt getting hammered as well....

I'm actually becoming more interested in this thread as you're describing an actual scene that I know nothing about, but I probably shouldn't respond any more about it on this thread as it's not directly related to the milton wright.

There was a huge mix of genres played in the different clubs. A lot of James Brown productions were played (People/Brownstone/etc...). Norman Jay also used to play a lot of Philly Stuff at Shake & Fingerpop. Jazzie B at the Africa Centre also played some Reggae and I remember Jonathan More playing Little Willie John's Fever at one night. The rare groove scene in London was different to the 2 step/blues parties although some records did cross over such as Ramp. Gwen McCrea's - All This Love That I'm Giving is also up there as one of the biggest Rare Groove tunes also

Edited January 27, 201213 yr by John Reed

  On 27/01/2012 at 09:51, John Reed said:

There was a huge mix of genres played in the different clubs. A lot of James Brown productions were played (People/Brownstone/etc...). Norman Jay also used to play a lot of Philly Stuff at Shake & Fingerpop. Jazzie B at the Africa Centre also played some Reggae and I remember Jonathan More playing Little Willie John's Fever at one night. The rare groove scene in London was different to the 2 step/blues parties although some records did cross over such as Ramp. Gwen McCrea's - All This Love That I'm Giving is also up there as one of the biggest Rare Groove tunes also

Thanks for the info. I am going to start a new thread asking about the history. Were both the rare groove and 2 step scenes based in London?

Maybe the biggest ever record on that scene was Archie Bell & The Drells "Don't Let Love Get You Down". In-demand enough to make it from import-only album track to a UK-released 12" which brushed the lower reaches of national charts years after its initial US release and was hammered in mainstream clubs up and down the country.

It's a record I'm ashamed to say I've never owned in any format and maybe that's why I never tire of hearing it on the radio, in a club or via youtube. It's a magnificent example of all that is best in that type of sound.

I suppose strictly speaking the rare groove and two-step scenes are distinct. Rare Groove incorporated a lot of the two-step anthems but also added a lot of later James Brown type productions which wouldn't have made it on the 'pure' two step scene. I suppose Rare Groove was an outgrowth of two-step as a lot of the same djs were involved, but it was a broadening of the sound.

  On 27/01/2012 at 10:00, boba said:

Thanks for the info. I am going to start a new thread asking about the history. Were both the rare groove and 2 step scenes based in London?

Pretty much. It was really interesting for me when I moved to London in 1983 'cos I'd gone through the Northern, Modern, Disco and Jazz-Funk scenes whilst I was up North over the 70's and early 80's and then I got to London and suddenly I was hearing most of the records that were rejected up North for being too funky or sluggish etc, etc. But somehow they all made sense when hearing 'em in the Wag or the Africa Centre. It was a buzzzing scene at the time. My only regret is that I left thousands of Rare-Groove/2 Step stuff in stores in the 70's when they were like 10 cents each.......

I think a lot of two-step stuff was played by Kev Edwards up in Warrington in the mid 80's. I seem to remember him telling me that the biggest record at one time was Arnold Blair "Trying To Get next To You" and it was going for a couple of hundred quid at the time.......which is kinda weird 'cos I left a 100 count box at a warehouse in Telford in the late 70's (along with Lew Kirton "Heaven In The Afternoon").....

Ian D

Isley bros - work to do and Vibrations - shake it up were pretty popular rare groove/2 step tunes, weren't they?

I bought Milton Wright as a new release for 85p purely on the strength of his name. I thought it was ok at the time but nothing special. It got filed away and I dug it out towards the end of the 90s to reappraise it. I thought it sounded a bit dull and pointless so it went in the sales box. I know I doubled my initial investment.

Judging by the support I obviously didn't hear it in the right place to be able to connect to it .... sometimes it takes that 'moment' for a song to hit the mark

Andy

I was around doing clubs in this era.2 step was more of a northern thing apart from Terry Jones etc and the Norfolk village scene.Couldn't stand 2 step myself and always had to leave the soul rooms at Southport after 20 mins as the music wad dull as dishwater.The only saving grace was when Searling played a northern oldies set.Back in London the deejays were playing stuff like Milton Wright Manfredo Fest Say It Girl loads of Roy Ayres They Call Me Mr Tibbs Eddie Bo CLarence Wheeler RIght on etc. Even the fashion was different.....2 step peg trousers dress shirt slop on shoes college boy hair and geeky glasses.London rare groove leather box jackets Carpenter jeans black boots tom o shanter hats and shirts from Rockit.

Leroy Hutson - All because of you

  On 27/01/2012 at 13:17, wiggyflat said:

I was around doing clubs in this era.2 step was more of a northern thing apart from Terry Jones etc and the Norfolk village scene.

I don't know if i'm reading this correctly are you saying that Terry mostly played 2 step? I would have said Terry's leaning was more towards everything soul with a good dose of Motown and wouldnt class the Norfolk as a 2 step venue. Some of the big tunes he played in its hayday were Corey Blake - How Can I Go On, Bobby Taylor - Dont Be Afraid, Isleys - My Love Is Your love. There were quite a few sound systems in London at the time, such as Touch Of Class and many others and it evolved around the same time as the scene in Manchester, but even there there were differences as big tunes in Manchester bombed in London and vise versa.

Edited January 27, 201213 yr by John Reed

We had a long and heated debate on Two Step a few years ago here. The arguments about whether it was geographically a northern or southern phenomenon became quite bitter if I remember rightly.

Bottom line is that it was popular everywhere there were large Afro-caribbean communities and that maybe London led the way because it had the largest of those demographics. It certainly had seemingly dozens of pirate radio stations broadcasting these types of records practically round the clock.

I never really went to many of those club nights but certainly listened to the radio and bought records in those shops. Often the same albums were in-demand on different scenes for different tracks but certain 'rare' cut-out albums were available quite cheaply because they contained no 'steppers'. I can think of Alice Clark, Tommie Young, Bobby Patterson, Janice, various Japanese Southern Soul and so on all bought for relative pennies while quite plentiful albums like the Archie Bell mentioned above (and particularly Randy Brown albums) all seemed to be way overpriced in the London shops. I used to buy lots of records from people like Lloyd Brown and he would scratch his head at some of the sounds deemed big on what we regarded as the 'Modern Soul' scene.

From a record selling and collecting point of view there came to be a lot of cross-pollination: remember Rod Shard saying that he and Dave Withers could offload a lot of what didn't work on the Northern Modern scene onto the two step scene. Conversely a lot of the more midtempo seventies soul came over from the two-step scene to almost create the Crossover sound on the Modern scene, particularly at a time when the current new independent releases collected by that scene were sounding increasingly synthetic and tinny.

While two-step records had to have the correct flavour the Rare Groove thing was more inclusive in that while a lot of steppers were played maybe the biggest tracks were JB-produced funk hit 45s like "Unwind Yourself", "Think" and so on.

I remember Arnold Blair - Trying to Get To Get Next To You, being a massive London 2 step tune. It was quite a while after it was big, did I hear it at a modern do and when played people moving to the dance floor going "what the f*ck is this"

  On 27/01/2012 at 13:59, John Reed said:

I don't know if i'm reading this correctly are you saying that Terry mostly played 2 step? I would have said Terry's leaning was more towards everything soul with a good dose of Motown and wouldnt class the Norfolk as a 2 step venue. Some of the big tunes he played in its hayday were Corey Blake - How Can I Go On, Bobby Taylor - Dont Be Afraid, Isleys - My Love Is Your love. There were quite a few sound systems in London at the time, such as Touch Of Class and many others and it evolved around the same time as the scene in Manchester, but even there there were differences as big tunes in Manchester bombed in London and vise versa.

Quite agree, wouldn't have called the Norfolk Village 2-step, definitely more of a crossover place.

Starvue - Body Fusion and Voices Of East Harlem - Wanted Dead Or Alive - 2 of the best rare groove tunes

Thinking about it now and you're probably right.I'm sure Terry had something going at the production village in Cricklewood as well.There was also the boogie scene in london too which was from memory after the rare groove stuff.I remember 2 step mostly from the early Southport weekenders played by Searling,Jonathan Woodcliffe,Bob Jones and others.I used to try hard to like it but I found the music too smooth and insipid ......we used to run back into the Cotton Club jazzroom where Norman Jay or Peterson would be deejaying.I suppose the other room was the modern scene w hich had evolved from mecca sounds to 2 step.Come to think of it Colin Curtis was playing it as well.

I don't really like the Milton Wright record either, although you'd think it would be my kinda thing. I love all the other tunes mentioned on this thread though.

I listened to it a few more times, I think it's better than I initially thought (listenable and maybe playable on my show) but definitely not great.

I'm starting a new thread about the rare groove / 2-step scene.

the equals funky like a train that reminds me of those r g days

I had a listen again last night. You're tight Bob, it's ok but not great. I'm not surprised Benji has defended it. He put it on a CD for me once.

Two step as a genre grew out of the Lovers Rock reggae scene where enterprising DJs looked to original soul releases which were complimentary to the reggae sounds they were otherwise playing - it may have been picked up within the wider soul scene but thats where it started. I would think about 1094/85 as a starting point.

Rare groove was a separate scene, encompassing a variety of funky sides, run by different people but a few sounds were played on both scenes (Keep It Up being one of those).

As for 'Boogie', much more of an early 80s phenomenen - take a look at this URL for the definitive listing - https://bangtheparty77-84.com/2009/08/14/sean-p%E2%80%99s-100-boogie-essentials-1980-1984/

I think both sides of Milton Wright 7" are quality but check out on lp:my ole lady Boba,that might be more your thing.

I was on the rare groove/2 step in early/mid 80`s and apart from tracks aready mentioned here`s a few more:

Doin alright-0`bryan.(2 step)

Turned onto you-80`s Ladies.(Rare groove/2 step)

Open up your heart-Barkays.(2 step)

It`s just the way i feel-Gene Dunlap(2 step)

Windy city theme-Carl Davis and the Chi -Sound(Big Norman jay Rare groove tune)

I don`t know if you can make it-Dawson Smith.(Rare Groove).

Evil Vibrations-Mighty Ryeders(Rare groove)

Turn off the lights-Larry Youngs Fuel.(Rare Groove)

The above were played to death on radio/club land but i also liked the more collectors stuff on that scene which went under the radar except for those in the know

Edited January 29, 201213 yr by Hammersoul