Garethx Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 I amongst us own this 45! It has to be in my top 5 deep soul records. Spine-tingling. I think No. 1 is the aforementioned Curtis King. Who amongst us owns THAT? You are a lucky man. No Curtis King here, sadly.
Steve G Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Another long-standing deep soul rarity is Eugene Evans "Too Much Pain" on Hollywood, a label where not much else seems to fall into the rare or scarce category. I wonder what the consensus is on its rarity? One mint copy went through ebay last summer which I somehow missed. it was listed for the other side, which is also great and a reminder to use both titles in a saved search. That's one copy I've seen for open sale in practically twenty years of looking and begging for a copy. It went for $272.
Garethx Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 ^ A very good price for something of that quality.
Steve G Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 You are a lucky man. No Curtis King here, sadly. nor here.
John A Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) now i have always found the opposite to be the case some records that look mint on styrene can hiss and crackle where as vinyl seems better there are of course different qualities of styrene if you take harold melvin on Landa i don't think i have ever heard one what didn't hiss regardless of condition same with most MGM records Dottie Cambridge, April Stevens, Spider Turner etc all seem to be on inferior styrene compaired to Okeh quality just an observation ! All those MGM's are vinyl surely where Okeh's generally were pressed in styrene.Anyone confirm? Edited January 8, 2012 by John A
Garethx Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Yes. There is a later press of the Spyder Turner on styrene but the first press and all the other titles are vinyl. MGM pressed very high quality vinyl too.
John A Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Thanks Gareth, thought I was having a mad sunday night moment and was gonna have to revise my whole vinyl/styrene understanding.
Guest allnightandy Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) All those MGM's are vinyl surely where Okeh's generally were pressed in styrene.Anyone confirm? nope mine are styrene and most early Okeh stuff is on vinyl When i first replyed to this i thought you had it the wrong way round ? Edited January 8, 2012 by allnightandy
boba Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 now i have always found the opposite to be the case some records that look mint on styrene can hiss and crackle where as vinyl seems better i'm confused, how does that differ from what I have been saying? thanks.
John A Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) nope mine are styrene and most early Okeh stuff is on vinyl When i first replyed to this i thought you had it the wrong way round ? Okeh. I agree with what has all ready been said,,some styrene record can look trashed but still play clean,but once that distortion has burned into the groves they'r pretty well f**ked. Edited January 8, 2012 by John A
Garethx Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) nope mine are styrene and most early Okeh stuff is on vinyl When i first replyed to this i thought you had it the wrong way round ? The odd Okeh 45 from their soul era is on a vinyl issue (off the top of my head I have Little Foxes and Major Harris, i.e. late titles) but the vast majority is on styrene. MGM was noted for vinyl pressing and handled many outside clients in addition to its own labels. East coast Atlantic 45s and LPs for example were pressed at MGM in New York state until about 1966 when they moved production to Specialty in PA. Edited January 8, 2012 by garethx
Guest allnightandy Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 The odd Okeh 45 from their soul era is on a vinyl issue (off the top of my head I have Little Foxes and Major Harris, i.e. late titles) but the vast majority is on styrene. MGM was noted for vinyl pressing and handled many outside clients in addition to its own labels. East coast Atlantic 45s and LPs for example were pressed at MGM in New York state until about 1966 when they moved production to Specialty in PA. What do you mean the odd 45 from their soul era it was a soul label in the main ok it had country and western and jazz and gospel but in the main i's a soul label from very early on it's 45's from their introduction in the 1951 were vinyl apart from the odd one over the years , they didn't go to styrene untill about 1963/64 and even then there are still vinyl records in the mix
Guest allnightandy Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 i'm confused, how does that differ from what I have been saying? thanks. Sorry i was disagreeing with Weingarden who had your quote in his post my take is vinyl is far better and more durable than styrene
Garethx Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Okeh was founded in 1918. The soul era was a comparatively short part of its history. Hence my comments.
Pete Eccles Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Okeh was founded in 1918. The soul era was a comparatively short part of its history. Hence my comments. Was just gonna say almost the same thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okeh_Records
Guest allnightandy Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Okeh was founded in 1918. The soul era was a comparatively short part of its history. Hence my comments. but the records back then were neither styrene or vilyl it was what i used to call bakelite which was actually shellac and crushed stone i think styrene was probably a later invention than vinyl
Guest allnightandy Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) . Edited January 9, 2012 by allnightandy
Garethx Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 but the records back then were neither styrene or vilyl it was what i used to call bakelite which was actually shellac and crushed stone i think styrene was probably a later invention than vinyl Styrene is as old as the 45 itself: just after WWII. This is all in response to your assertion that the MGM records you listed were styrene, They're not, with the exception of that strange later issue of Spyder Turner with a Monarch delta number but with the classic black / multicoloured MGM label. I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label. The majority of what we think of as a classic Okeh soul single was issued on styrene alone, with a few exceptions. The examples I mentioned are records I own and I'm sure there must be isolated examples of others.
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Sorry i was disagreeing with Weingarden who had your quote in his post my take is vinyl is far better and more durable than styrene cool, thanks for clarifying
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label. I think my major lance delilah is styrene, I will check when i get home
Kris Holmes Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 i've been looking for a copy of LITTLE MACK-I NEED LOVE-CHECKER for 3 years at that time i posted it in the wants section and had replies saying it shouldn't be that hard to find! anybody got one to sell?!!! you need to get your ebay game going, a copy went for around $40 last year. great 45.
Guest allnightandy Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Styrene is as old as the 45 itself: just after WWII. This is all in response to your assertion that the MGM records you listed were styrene, They're not, with the exception of that strange later issue of Spyder Turner with a Monarch delta number but with the classic black / multicoloured MGM label. I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label. The majority of what we think of as a classic Okeh soul single was issued on styrene alone, with a few exceptions. The examples I mentioned are records I own and I'm sure there must be isolated examples of others. Well sorry mine are i have three spider turners , two dottie cambridges and an april stevens and i know what they are on !
Guest allnightandy Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Styrene is as old as the 45 itself: just after WWII. This is all in response to your assertion that the MGM records you listed were styrene, They're not, with the exception of that strange later issue of Spyder Turner with a Monarch delta number but with the classic black / multicoloured MGM label. I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label. The majority of what we think of as a classic Okeh soul single was issued on styrene alone, with a few exceptions. The examples I mentioned are records I own and I'm sure there must be isolated examples of others. The majority of what You class as classic ! not me i am an okeh demo collector and have many Soul records going back to the early1950 s ok they are not 100 mph stompers but they are soul blues gospel and skiffle type content
Garethx Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I can admit when I'm wrong. A quick scan of popsike reveals one Monarch-pressed, styrene copy of April Stevens. I'd take a wild guess that there are one hundred vinyl copies to every styrene one though.
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 The majority of what You class as classic ! not me i am an okeh demo collector and have many Soul records going back to the early1950 s ok they are not 100 mph stompers but they are soul blues gospel and skiffle type content what's an example of a soul record from the early 1950s? thanks.
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Yep so is J Kelly & Premiers on Wand. OH SNAP: https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-Kelly-and-Premiers-She-Calls-Me-Baby-Signed-Sealed-NEW-and-unplayed-/110795275289?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item19cbe9bc19#ht_2014wt_805 maybe they have more copies but I've secured mine. this seller (look at their listing) is the exact example of greedy jerks googling and popsiking stuff, finding stupid record collectors exaggerating comments, and putting stuff up for insane prices (or top popsike prices). if this thread existed last week this would have been $400.
Guest DeeJay Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 My main interest is in records from the 1960s, I don't know much about records from the 1970s, especially soul Based on my experience and the comments here, I'll make a list of rare records on major labels. This list will include garage as well as soul, since I know more about certain garage records and why they are rare - might be useful. For now I am not going to mention stock or promo, in most cases promos will be much more available. This list is 1960s based (I don't consider anything after 1970) so almost every promo has both sides, avoiding the problem with 70s same side promos. This is a first draft and will have a lot of missing items. Motown family labels not included, mainly because I don't know them well enough and there is way more info available on them from other sources A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies A&M - nothing rare. Terry Knight and Pack 45 listed in discogs has never been found. ABC - Yum Yums is scarce. Some records listed in discogs that have never been found (Impressions, Styx (rock?)). Merry Dragons, a garage record, is somewhat scarce. Amy - Lou Ragland is scarce. A couple scarce garage records (Big Boy Pete) Atlantic - nothing rare Atco - nothing rare Bang - nothing rare, a couple records listed in discogs have never been found Bell - Bernie Williams and Hytones are scarce, but I know three people who have found BW in the US in the past few years. A couple records listed in discogs that have never been found (Untamed, forgot the other) Buddah - nothing rare Cameo - nothing rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Shags) Capitol - nothing rare Chess - Wurds (garage) is scarce or rare Columbia - Stereos 45 (early 45 by the Stereo Freeze group) is rare, withdrawn and supposedly only 50-100 copies distributed. Zombies (rock) 45 is rare. Date - 1st release of Zombies "Time of the Season" is scarce Decca - nothing rare Diamond - nothing rare Dot - I forget which soul 45s are scarce. Syndicate and Sherlocks "Skin of My Teeth" (both garage) are scarce. A couple more borderline scarce rock 45s Dunhill - Willie Hutch is scarce Epic - Remains (rock) 45 "I'm Talking About You" is rare Fontana - can't think of anything rare Imperial - nothing rare King - Jr McCants "Try Me..." may be the rarest major label (non Motown) 45. Keith Murphy and Daze (garage) is scarce Laurie - Tropics (garage) is scarce to rare Liberty - nothing rare Mercury - Stormie Wynters is rare. Rooks (garage) is scarce. Rooks 45 was only distributed in certain parts of the country. MGM - nothing rare Parkway - Chubby Checker is scarce. Vickie Baines "Country girl" is scarce or rare. Leather Boy (garage) is rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Blue Rondos) Philips - can't think of anything RCA - nothing rare Roulette - East Coast Journeymen (rock) is scarce Scepter - Johnny Maestro is scarce(?), Dickens (rock, aka NRBQ) is scarce, not as rare as claimed by some sources Smash - Dowliners Sect (rock) is somewhat scarce. Underpriveledged (garage) is scarce Swan - mispressed Tony Galla is scarce. The proper TG record is not especially rare. Just Two Guys (garage) is scarce. Tower - Sam Williams is scarce.Don't recall artist but title (rock) "flashing sun things" is rare 20th Century - Cliff Butler and Doves (rock) is scarce-rare Uptown - nothing rare United Artists - nothing rare Verve - One of the Velvet Underground 45s is scare or rare. Wand - Walter Wilson, Ivorys are rare. Gentlemen Four and maybe a couple others are borderline scarce Warner Brothers - David Bowie (rock) is scarce. Marque V (rock) is scarce Nice list George With regards to MGM Dean Courtney issues are pretty rare DJ
Steve G Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) OH SNAP: https://www.ebay.com/...9#ht_2014wt_805 maybe they have more copies but I've secured mine. this seller (look at their listing) is the exact example of greedy jerks googling and popsiking stuff, finding stupid record collectors exaggerating comments, and putting stuff up for insane prices (or top popsike prices). if this thread existed last week this would have been $400. Ah good. It's actually a mis-press and was withdrawn and when you get it you'll find it has Roadshow matrix in the run out but a Wand label..... Another toughie on Wand is Sylvia Jenkins doing Maxine Brown, but not nearly as well. But I see what you mean about their prices for things they think are 'in demand'. ATB Steve Edited January 9, 2012 by Steve G
Tony Smith Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I can admit when I'm wrong. A quick scan of popsike reveals one Monarch-pressed, styrene copy of April Stevens. I'd take a wild guess that there are one hundred vinyl copies to every styrene one though. All my MGMs are vinyl, with 2 exceptions, Wakefield Sun "Trypt On Love" & Irma Routen "Sacrifice" which are both from 1970, read into that what you will.
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Ah good. It's actually a mis-press and was withdrawn and when you get it you'll find it has Roadshow matrix in the run out but a Wand label..... Another toughie on Wand is Sylvia Jenkins doing Maxine Brown, but not nearly as well. But I see what you mean about their prices for things they think are 'in demand'. ATB Steve probably not the rarest on the label but I've been unable to get a copy of ann bailey with the flip
Steve G Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 probably not the rarest on the label but I've been unable to get a copy of ann bailey with the flip i have one so they are out there. On from the 60s I've never seen in Jesse Hill. Steve
Steve G Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Yes one of many rareish ones on Stang / All Plat. I got mine about 13 years ago now. Still play it occasionally.
Sleeps45 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Yes one of many rareish ones on Stang / All Plat. I got mine about 13 years ago now. Still play it occasionally. im still after this..2 great sides
dob Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 you need to get your ebay game going, a copy went for around $40 last year. great 45. i go on ebay every night!!!
Sebastian Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Bobby Reed on Bell is a fairly common 45, there are at least 30-50 copies per year offered for sale on lists, eBay etc. Edited January 9, 2012 by Sebastian
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Bobby Reed on Bell is a fairly common 45, there are at least 30-50 copies per year offered for sale on lists, eBay etc. a rarer bobby reed is the bobby reed on abbott stock copy (with the flip), i haven't found one yet. probably some crappy song though.
Steve G Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Oh I might have that, wil check later Bob. Just remembered another scarce one on Buddah is an issue of Carol townes & Fifth Avenue with a B side.
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Oh I might have that, wil check later Bob. Just remembered another scarce one on Buddah is an issue of Carol townes & Fifth Avenue with a B side. some copies of the buddah record turned up last year, I bought a couple to resell, other than that it had previously took me a long time to get a copy and hopefully will not turn up again as I want to resell these copies! not the hardest one on buddah in my experience though, but difficult.
Sleeps45 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 rare 45 on buddah-Jeffrey Graham and the family connection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yuxAwH1d7E 1
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 rare 45 on buddah-Jeffrey Graham and the family connection yeah I still need that one actually. way to snitch on something i don't have yet ;;;
Sleeps45 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 yeah I still need that one actually. way to snitch on something i don't have yet ;;;
boba Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 my friend talked to the family connection a while ago btw, jeffrey graham was not a member, he was just some kid they were backing
Steve G Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 some copies of the buddah record turned up last year, I bought a couple to resell, other than that it had previously took me a long time to get a copy and hopefully will not turn up again as I want to resell these copies! not the hardest one on buddah in my experience though, but difficult. Ok thanks. That often happens someone turns up a box of 25 of something that was previously 'hardish'.
Weingarden Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I think one of the scarcer '60s Wands is Gary Weston, Red Feather Basket/I Should Say Not. It's not soul, though...more like wild Coasters-style novelty R&B.
Weingarden Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 There's really nothing rare on Atlantic/Atco?
Sleeps45 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 i was just kidding FYI I know that bob my friend talked to the family connection a while ago btw, jeffrey graham was not a member, he was just some kid they were backing so that is the same Family connection from Ct ?
Steve G Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Oh yes there is.......Peggy Scott on Atco and darrow Fletcher issue for starters and I bet there's a few more as well when I get my thinking cap on.....
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