MrsWoodsrules Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I love the bit where he says the vinyl looks the lower end of VG over all lots of hairlines fingernail scratches but i doubt you will want to play it that often due to it's rarity ! Yeah, noticed that bit of 'salesmanship', he he. See other items? That Eptones looks interesting, no bargains for sure. That one sided Beatles on Swan looks the best investment Wouldn't of minded that Joe Jama though, out of my league that. Aid.
Guest allnightandy Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Not a super rare record this one but the demo is hens teeth ever seen two pictures of this https://www.popsike.c...50823404028.jpg also quite rare is this , especially on a stock copy some lucky guy got this for £29 in June this year ! Edited January 6, 2012 by allnightandy
Guest giant Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Another big label, Decca, don't see too many Johnny Caswells hanging around these days. Aid. loads of promos around and turns up all the time 1
boba Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 And on John manship website at set sale Bob... For a lot less , I wonder why ?? because people have bad taste? that fondells record rules.
boba Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 also the harmony is way out of tune on the fortson and scott record, it's unlistenable. FLAME AWAY.
Robbk Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Cynthia & Imaginations - Why Weren't You There (I Needed You) on Blue Rock No idea why it's rare though Cheers Richard I don't think that record got into shops. I didn't see it in Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, L.A. San Francisco, or Oakland(or even Detroit, for that matter). It probably didn't have much, if any marketing push from Mercury. It probably didn't have much of an initial press run. And most of what was pressed up probably ended up getting destroyed. I saw hundreds of copies of their other Blue Rock release, and saw it as regular stock in stores (but NOT "Why Weren't You There"). Mercury had a LOT of other releases on their main label, Smash, Philips, Fontana, Blue Rock and Limelight to keep track of and to push. It must have gotten lost in the shuffle. And wasn't Thelma Lindsey's out at the same time (or a little sooner)? Maybe mercury didn't want to spend time and money on unknown artists to split minute sales with a similar version of the same song?
George G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) My main interest is in records from the 1960s, I don't know much about records from the 1970s, especially soul Based on my experience and the comments here, I'll make a list of rare records on major labels. This list will include garage as well as soul, since I know more about certain garage records and why they are rare - might be useful. For now I am not going to mention stock or promo, in most cases promos will be much more available. This list is 1960s based (I don't consider anything after 1970) so almost every promo has both sides, avoiding the problem with 70s same side promos. This is a first draft and will have a lot of missing items. Motown family labels not included, mainly because I don't know them well enough and there is way more info available on them from other sources A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies A&M - nothing rare. Terry Knight and Pack 45 listed in discogs has never been found. ABC - Yum Yums is scarce. Some records listed in discogs that have never been found (Impressions, Styx (rock?)). Merry Dragons, a garage record, is somewhat scarce. Amy - Lou Ragland is scarce. A couple scarce garage records (Big Boy Pete) Atlantic - nothing rare Atco - nothing rare Bang - nothing rare, a couple records listed in discogs have never been found Bell - Bernie Williams and Hytones are scarce, but I know three people who have found BW in the US in the past few years. A couple records listed in discogs that have never been found (Untamed, forgot the other) Buddah - nothing rare Cameo - nothing rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Shags) Capitol - nothing rare Chess - Wurds (garage) is scarce or rare Columbia - Stereos 45 (early 45 by the Stereo Freeze group) is rare, withdrawn and supposedly only 50-100 copies distributed. Zombies (rock) 45 is rare. Date - 1st release of Zombies "Time of the Season" is scarce Decca - nothing rare Diamond - nothing rare Dot - I forget which soul 45s are scarce. Syndicate and Sherlocks "Skin of My Teeth" (both garage) are scarce. A couple more borderline scarce rock 45s Dunhill - Willie Hutch is scarce Epic - Remains (rock) 45 "I'm Talking About You" is rare Fontana - can't think of anything rare Imperial - nothing rare King - Jr McCants "Try Me..." may be the rarest major label (non Motown) 45. Keith Murphy and Daze (garage) is scarce Laurie - Tropics (garage) is scarce to rare Liberty - nothing rare Mercury - Stormie Wynters is rare. Rooks (garage) is scarce. Rooks 45 was only distributed in certain parts of the country. MGM - nothing rare Parkway - Chubby Checker is scarce. Vickie Baines "Country girl" is scarce or rare. Leather Boy (garage) is rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Blue Rondos) Philips - can't think of anything RCA - nothing rare Roulette - East Coast Journeymen (rock) is scarce Scepter - Johnny Maestro is scarce(?), Dickens (rock, aka NRBQ) is scarce, not as rare as claimed by some sources Smash - Dowliners Sect (rock) is somewhat scarce. Underpriveledged (garage) is scarce Swan - mispressed Tony Galla is scarce. The proper TG record is not especially rare. Just Two Guys (garage) is scarce. Tower - Sam Williams is scarce.Don't recall artist but title (rock) "flashing sun things" is rare 20th Century - Cliff Butler and Doves (rock) is scarce-rare Uptown - nothing rare United Artists - nothing rare Verve - One of the Velvet Underground 45s is scare or rare. Wand - Walter Wilson, Ivorys are rare. Gentlemen Four and maybe a couple others are borderline scarce Warner Brothers - David Bowie (rock) is scarce. Marque V (rock) is scarce Edited January 7, 2012 by George G
boba Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I have a very hard mercury soul 45... i have been trying to upgrade it forever. i've never seen it for sale. don't wanna give up which one it is until i upgrade. There are some very hard blue rock and smash numbers too (which I don't have at all but which do exist).
George G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I have a very hard mercury soul 45... i have been trying to upgrade it forever. i've never seen it for sale. don't wanna give up which one it is until i upgrade. There are some very hard blue rock and smash numbers too (which I don't have at all but which do exist). Bob, I have a lot more information that I have not posted. This was my rev 0.3 version. I have been collecting info on records like this for a long time....30 years and counting! However, I cut off around 1970.
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 My main interest is in records from the 1960s, I don't know much about records from the 1970s, especially soul Based on my experience and the comments here, I'll make a list of rare records on major labels. This list will include garage as well as soul, since I know more about certain garage records and why they are rare - might be useful. For now I am not going to mention stock or promo, in most cases promos will be much more available. This list is 1960s based (I don't consider anything after 1970) so almost every promo has both sides, avoiding the problem with 70s same side promos. This is a first draft and will have a lot of missing items. Motown family labels not included, mainly because I don't know them well enough and there is way more info available on them from other sources A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies Decca - nothing rare that is interesting you don't think tony ashley "i'll go crazy" decca is a scarce or rare record ? just interested in your opinion.
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Tower - Sam Williams is scarce.Don't recall artist but title (rock) "flashing sun things" is rare I don't believe this fits into your definition of scarce.
MrsWoodsrules Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies I like this definition because I never know what truly defines a rare record, I probably mix scarce up with rare, suppose I should be more discerning, you live & learn, although I see you have the Hy-Tones as rare, which I thought it was. Aid.
MrsWoodsrules Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Just add to that though, if you get a record known to be rare, a few copies coming up for sale within a few months of each other, shouldn't detract from it's actual rarity? Bit confusing this. Aid.
Steve G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) My main interest is in records from the 1960s, I don't know much about records from the 1970s, especially soul Based on my experience and the comments here, I'll make a list of rare records on major labels. This list will include garage as well as soul, since I know more about certain garage records and why they are rare - might be useful. For now I am not going to mention stock or promo, in most cases promos will be much more available. This list is 1960s based (I don't consider anything after 1970) so almost every promo has both sides, avoiding the problem with 70s same side promos. This is a first draft and will have a lot of missing items. Motown family labels not included, mainly because I don't know them well enough and there is way more info available on them from other sources A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies A&M - nothing rare. Terry Knight and Pack 45 listed in discogs has never been found. ABC - Yum Yums is scarce. Some records listed in discogs that have never been found (Impressions, Styx (rock?)). Merry Dragons, a garage record, is somewhat scarce. Thanks for the post and for sharing your views. However it is just that, your views. So when you say nothing rare on UA I presume you have seen loads of copies of Nathan Williams "What price"? ABC - Tommy Tate - up there with the biggest of 'em I am afraid. Atco Ed Robinson Ivory - think this is pretty hard Buddah - Janice Joyce I could go on.....but have work to do.... You mention things like Sam Williams, Willie Hutch, Gentlemen 4 etc - there must be at least 75-100 of them over here alone George in DJ boxes and with old collectors etc. One persons rare is another persons scarce etc etc. But I do like the distinction between rare and scarce. ATB Steve Edited January 7, 2012 by Steve G
George G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 that is interesting you don't think tony ashley "i'll go crazy" decca is a scarce or rare record ? just interested in your opinion. I forgot about that.... I know it's a hard record to get, how rare is it?
Tony Smith Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Another record on Mercury. Jeffery Bowen I'll Get By, never seen a demo, not saying not out there, just don't see around much when browsing. Manship got issued priced in his book, don't know what a demo would make?? Aid I've 2 demos on this, first came off of Nogger, the other from the US, not a great deal of demand on it though, traded it to JM around 15 years ago.
Guest allnightandy Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Joe hicks "Don't it make ya feel funky" plenty of originals kicking about over the years (Not the boots with silver writing) but black writing on AGC 0001 but there is a second release by the same company which is on AGC 2 which is worth a lot of money ! Edited January 7, 2012 by allnightandy
Steve G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Joe hicks "Don't it make ya feel funky" plenty of originals kicking about over the years (Not the boots with silver writing) but black writing on AGC 0001 but there is a second release by the same company which is on AGC 2 which is worth a lot of money ! Yes they put it out twice on the label. There's also another good mid tempo record on the label as well The Performers doing a version of the classic "The right to cry".
Tony Smith Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Joe hicks "Don't it make ya feel funky" plenty of originals kicking about over the years (Not the boots with silver writing) but black writing on AGC 0001 but there is a second release by the same company which is on AGC 2 which is worth a lot of money ! "I Gotta Be Free" at least 2 of these sold last year, never been easy to find though, as you say much, much rarer than AGC 0001.
George G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the post and for sharing your views. However it is just that, your views. So when you say nothing rare on UA I presume you have seen loads of copies of Nathan Williams "What price"? ABC - Tommy Tate - up there with the biggest of 'em I am afraid. Atco Ed Robinson Ivory - think this is pretty hard Buddah - Janice Joyce I could go on.....but have work to do.... You mention things like Sam Williams, Willie Hutch, Gentlemen 4 etc - there must be at least 75 of them over here alone George. One persons rare is another persons scarce etc etc. ATB Steve Steve, thanks for the input, as I said in the intro, there is a lot of missing information. I found a lot of my old notes in case this effort has legs and people want to keep adding to make it more accurate. The Nathan Williams is a 70s record, that's why it's not included. Ed Robinson, also from the 70s. My list ended had a cutoff of '70 as that's when I was keeping track of this. I don't have the info for Tommy Tate - when is that from? The idea of scarce was a record that while there are some copies around, it's still not something that is found often. I've seen more copies (promo) of the Yum Yums on ABC then of the three records mentioned. There's also the question of supply and demand, how often is the record offered for sale. Me living in the US, I have a different perspective. Records that were exported in the 1970s escaped my attention. My info is from the US field findings from the 1980s and later George Edited January 7, 2012 by George G
Guest allnightandy Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Yes they put it out twice on the label. There's also another good mid tempo record on the label as well The Performers doing a version of the classic "The right to cry". i saw that , There was one for sale on ebay last week !
Steve G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Steve, thanks for the input, as I said in the intro, there is a lot of missing information. I found a lot of my old notes in case this effort has legs and people want to keep adding to make it more accurate. The Nathan Williams is a 70s record, that's why it's not included. Ed Robinson, also from the 70s. My list ended had a cutoff of '70 as that's when I was keeping track of this. I don't have the info for Tommy Tate - when is that from? The idea of scarce was a record that while there are some copies around, it's still not something that is found often. I've seen more copies (promo) of the Yum Yums on ABC then of the three records mentioned. There's also the question of supply and demand, how often is the record offered for sale. George Cheers George Tommy Tate circa 65-66. I do like the distinction between scarce and genuinely rare. Steve Edited January 7, 2012 by Steve G
MrsWoodsrules Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I've 2 demos on this, first came off of Nogger, the other from the US, not a great deal of demand on it though, traded it to JM around 15 years ago. Great tune this Tony, massive production, love it. Aid. 1
Dave Pinch Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 also the harmony is way out of tune on the fortson and scott record, it's unlistenable. FLAME AWAY. u got cloth ears bob lol
Dave Pinch Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 willie hutch on dunhill aint rare..just still very indemand..well the promo aint
Ismaelg Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the post and for sharing your views. :thumbsup:" class="bbc_emoticon" src=" " /> However it is just that, your views. So when you say nothing rare on UA I presume you have seen loads of copies of Nathan Williams "What price"? ABC - Tommy Tate - up there with the biggest of 'em I am afraid. Atco Ed Robinson Ivory - think this is pretty hard Buddah - Janice Joyce I could go on.....but have work to do.... You mention things like Sam Williams, Willie Hutch, Gentlemen 4 etc - there must be at least 75-100 of them over here alone George in DJ boxes and with old collectors etc. One persons rare is another persons scarce etc etc. But I do like the distinction between rare and scarce. ATB Steve Steve , don`t forget your Darrow Fletcher on Atco " :thumbsup:" Edited January 7, 2012 by SBOLCA
Guest Johnny Mack Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 The Astors on Stax 139 - Just enough to hurt me Not super rare but a scarce and hard one to turn up compared to their other releases on the label. Came out a couple of years earlier than their more well known releases. Dont know whether this accounts for the scarcity. Strangely I haven't seen a white label promo of this, albeit I have the other releases on promos. Best John
boba Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 the soul record I'm looking to upgrade on mercury is 60s. I know there are very hard records on stock in the 70s...
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I forgot about that.... I know it's a hard record to get, how rare is it? It took me years to get my copy but then oddly I managed to get a 2nd soon after. I believe in your categories it is certainly scarce and may even be rare. its a once a year on ebay type sound at a guess. but when a couple sold for high prices it did bring a couple more our of the woodwork. for me its a deep soul holy grail one of the very best. i'm not sure if future stars is classed as a big label but the willie johnson issue is another what i'd call a holy grail and rare record although i've been told there are a few in Japan.
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Joe hicks "Don't it make ya feel funky" plenty of originals kicking about over the years (Not the boots with silver writing) but black writing on AGC 0001 but there is a second release by the same company which is on AGC 2 which is worth a lot of money ! https://www.popsike.c...70496931300.jpg jhoie hicks with the other flip is a realy tough one and its fantastic as well.
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 You mention things like Sam Williams, Willie Hutch, Gentlemen 4 etc - there must be at least 75-100 of them over here alone George in DJ boxes and with old collectors etc. One persons rare is another persons scarce etc etc. But I do like the distinction between rare and scarce. ATB Steve That confirms what I always thought about sam williams. Thanks. High prices and demand don't always equal rare. 1
Chalky Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 jhoie hicks with the other flip is a realy tough one and its fantastic as well. yes but is it really all "that" rare? Seen enough over the years.
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 yes but is it really all "that" rare? Seen enough over the years. Possibly it slipped under my radar. When I was properly loking for records I only saw a handful of these and always had it down as a realy tough record to turn up.
Tony Smith Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Possibly it slipped under my radar. When I was properly loking for records I only saw a handful of these and always had it down as a realy tough record to turn up. It is! and when it does it always commands a decent price, the cheapest I ever saw one it was £200, and that was when the first release was going for around 8-15 that was nearly 20 years ago.
Guest gordon russell Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Bernie Williams was issued on Bell. Ginger has one and there is one for sale with Pete French. Bloody rare all the same. How many Billy Woods do we reckon there are? I have one and I sold one about 1985, these are not the same copies. So any takers at a guess? think john Anderson found about 8-10 copies in the first instance.....then the odd ones turned up.....in total prob about 20max
Garethx Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 A couple of releases on Arctic are scarce as opposed to truly rare. Junior too possibly.
Chalky Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 A couple of releases on Arctic are scarce as opposed to truly rare. Cindy Gibson possibly the rarest?
Russoul1 Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 a uk issue which upto very recently ive managed to get a copy after atleast 10yrs elkie brooks - hes gotta love me - hmv issue never seen another only a picture on a uk soul cd sleeve by pete s or ive not looked hard enough lol.... russ
Steve G Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Arctic is an interesting one. I'd say the rarest (and I did collect the label and am, only missing one) Cindy Gibson, agree Chalky One of the Brockingtons ditto although I can't remember which one now cos it's not very good. The one I didn't get (yet) is "Chains of love" which I believe is only on a test pressing and might not exist as a proper finished article. Thanks for reminding me of the Darrow Fletcher issue
davidwapples Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 isnt there a very rare pic and bill on charay , not talk about love which is quiet rare but another i cant remember the title of lol
Garethx Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 isnt there a very rare pic and bill on charay , not talk about love which is quiet rare but another i cant remember the title of lol What Does It Take. Scarce rather than rare.
Sebastian Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) What Does It Take. Scarce rather than rare. Really? Very few known copies as far as I know. There hasn't been a copy on eBay during the past 12 years and no copies on any of the "big" lists either in that period of time. I got my copy in a private deal a couple of years ago after 10+ years of constant searching, and ofcoure more copies might have changed hands that way, but in my experience "What Does it Take" is a really rare record. Edited January 7, 2012 by Sebastian
Garethx Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Really? Very few known copies as far as I know. There hasn't been a copy on eBay during the past 12 years and no copies on any of the "big" lists either in that period of time. I got my copy in a private deal a couple of years ago after 10+ years of constant searching, and ofcoure more copies might have changed hands that way, but in my experience "What Does it Take" is a really rare record. Mmm. Rarer than I thought then.
Pomonkey Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 <> I have the Sherlocks, it's a pretty relentless record, love it. Rarest soul on the label would assume is Chuck Collins, that one's really tough. How about Ronnie White on Brent - Out of breath, not a "known" 45 but screaming funky soul on a well-distributed label, lists low in any price guide I've seen it in but the promo with Beggin' you on both sides is the only one you see, that's ten a penny, have only ever seen 2 copies of the issue, have one and know where the other one is (and came from), none on popsike, it's been comped by Numero if you haven't heard it (artist listed as Ronnie Whitehead)
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 this is a good thread lets keep it going...........
Dylan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 is statue considered a big label. One record that eluded me for a very long time was Loyd (lloyd) Hendricks "hooked by love / don't cry no more" There is reference to copy on popsike for around 70 quid but I think that is way top cheap it seems quite tricky. "Hooked" is a gritty southern version of the classic homer banks track and realy packs as puch as does the superb flip side with a terrific drum break. Could also be a candidate for a record that deserves to big big in 2012 i've never heard this played out.
boba Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 This thread is an interesting read. One thing that sucks about this thread though is that whenever some jerk who knows nothing about soul finds a record mentioned in this thread and gets a google hit, they will put it up on ebay for a zillion dollars when it may be very cheap just rare. It would be funny if everyone intentionally misspelled every record or something.
boba Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 ....or only post records you already have Bob or you could even plant records that you have quantity of into this thread
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