New Venue Licensing Laws - Will It Affect The Scene?

[Guest ShaneH]

I am aware that the new licensing laws come into effect this week, however I have very little knowledge of these changes and the effects it will have on me.

I was just wondering if any of the venues have applied for extensions to opening times?

Will these changes have an effect on the scene as we know it?

cheers

Shane

[Guest Soultown andy]

I had a meeting with the manager of middleton civic last thursday,and hopefully we will have the bars open right through the niters.I was told that the police are objecting to practicaly every application for allnite licenses but as long as the premises meet any provisions the police ask for ie,cctv licensed door staff etc the courts will accept it.Obviously i can only comment on middleton but that is the info i have.So shane see you at the bar in 2006.

[Guest ShaneH]

I had a meeting with the manager of middleton civic last thursday,and hopefully we will have the bars open right through the niters.I was told that the police are objecting to practicaly every application for allnite licenses but as long as the premises meet any provisions the police ask for ie,cctv licensed door staff etc the courts will accept it.Obviously i can only comment on middleton but that is the info i have.So shane see you at the bar in 2006.

cheers andy

anymore venues taking advantage?

Shane

[Guest Ms Murray]

cheers andy

anymore venues taking advantage?

Shane

For a moment there I thought I was going to save a fortune, not having to buy you drinks Mr H!!!

[Chalky]

all pubs, clubs etc have had to re-apply for their license regardless of whether they will use the extended hours or not. If they haven't done so, and according to radio interview couple of weeks ago many premises haven't done so they wopn't have a license

[Supercorsa]

I had a meeting with the manager of middleton civic last thursday,and hopefully we will have the bars open right through the niters.I was told that the police are objecting to practicaly every application for allnite licenses but as long as the premises meet any provisions the police ask for ie,cctv licensed door staff etc the courts will accept it.Obviously i can only comment on middleton but that is the info i have.So shane see you at the bar in 2006.

It is no longer down to the courts, it is now down to the local councils. Mind you, look what the council in Wigan did back in '81.

Apparently the majority of applications for 24hr licences are from supermarkets.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Supercorsa

[Mace]

Although there is a lot of attention being given to the new '24 hour license' it is not actually as clear cut as it sounds.

From what I understand, very few premises will be granted 24 hour licenses.

There is a lot of criteria that each premises has to meet to be granted there license, and this not only covers clubs, but also corner shops, supermarkets, restaraunts and even the likes of hired limos that come with a bottle of champers.

Each license application will be different in its own right, and obviously trouble hotspots or local residents will have a major effect on what licensing hours are granted - in other words, a venue may apply for a 4.00 a.m. license but only be granted a 2.00 a.m. license etc.

We have had a lot of problems at Alsager Civic Hall with licensing over the last few years, with extensions only being granted to special occasions, and a normal bar closing at 11.00 p.m. (luckily the entertainment license continued till 12.45 a.m.so we managed to keep the venue running successfully even though there was a few moans along the way)

Alsagers new license has been approved at a 1.00a.m. bar with a 1.30 a.m. finish, so we are more than happy with the new set up.

Overall, I think it will be good news for the soul scene, but if you are expecting to see every pub open 24/7 I think you'll find this will not be the case.

regards

Mace

[Guest Dodger]

What you'll get is everyone wanting to be a landlord and opening their own pubs!!

[Mace]

What you'll get is everyone wanting to be a landlord and opening their own pubs!!

Why would anyone want to work 24/7????

[Guest alison]

cheers andy

anymore venues taking advantage?

Shane

There are many venue owners that won't find the new hours actually work to their advantage. The desired result is more sales of drinks, non ? What tends to happen, in my experience, with later licences is that you don't actually sell more, you sell roughly the same but over an extended period of time. Therefore overheads, especially staff wages, shoot up but profits don't. If I was still in the bar business, I wouldn't open later hours for love nor money - wouldn't be worth it financially.

Bad enough kicking the 'no homes to go to' crowd out after a lock in, then having to start work again at 9 am the next day. Uggh, no thanks

Applying this theory to soul venues, it's in the interests of the promoters and customers to have less restrictive drinking hours, but would be suprised if the venue owners were as keen. If they follow through, watch prices rocket, for both drinks and venue rents.

[Paul Conroy]

Hi All,

Good topic this one!! The new Act should not affect Soul Events that much if at all, as long as the venue has a 'Premesis License' and the Manager or nominated name holder of venue has a 'Personal License' . It takes way all the problems promotors have had re the old Occasional Lisence and Occasional Premesis License that was atiquted to say the least, it should make life easier when applying for longer hours, as long as you know what tp apply for .

The 24hour 'Thing ' has been exaggerated by the press, making the public belive that all pubss ,clubs etc will be open 24 seven, what a load of crap. there are provisions to counter act this by a premesis only being allowed longer hours 50 times a year, and personal License holder 12 times a year, however within the times requested if alcohol is to be served say at 4am the premesis must have a 'Licensed Activity' going on at the same time, so events with dancing with music will be ok as this classed as a Licensed activity.

The drinking of alcohol is NOT a Licensed Activity it's only the sale of alcohol, so in theory they have legalised 'Lock ins' for example say a pub or club have to stop Selling alcohol at 2am, there is nothing stopping you bying 20 pints and sit and drink them and take as long as you like ( not to sure how the bar staff would take this!!!),

If a club goes down this route stops the selling of alcohol at 2am, but will stay open to 4, NO licensed activity can take place, only the drinking of alcohol bought before 2am , therefore if you apply for the wrong License, you could be breaking the rules which could effect Soul events.

I'm not an expert in this, it;s just I'm a training Officer with my employers who have just sent me on a course on this subject and I'm delivering it now to members of staff

If anyone wants any advice or has any question youcan e-mail me on conroypylb@aol.com I'm more than willing to help

Paul Conroy

Tyneside Soul Promotions

[Guest]

JUST ONE QUESTION???????? if the bars are open all night for alchohol how are we gonna keep the locals out?????? not the peacefull ones but the ones who will come in have to much beer etc etc start fights etc etc as for myself if im at a nighter and a pissed up divvie starts giving me grief fur will fly!

[Guest]

JUST ONE QUESTION???????? if the bars are open all night for alchohol how are we gonna keep the locals out?????? not the peacefull ones but the ones who will come in have to much beer etc etc start fights etc etc as for myself if im at a nighter and a pissed up divvie starts giving me grief fur will fly!

Right behind you on that one, let's hope that the promoters who take advantage of the new laws won't start letting idiots in after hour's elsewhere. Ive known of two rather nasty fights this year and both caused by drunk non soulies being allowed into soul do's

[Guest musicden786]

Good main topic. Good replies.

Interesting spin of topic to--Security at Venues.

Wonder if there is opinion out there on the correct level of security required at venues under current circumstanses ie increasing theft, potential bombers and the new drinking hours.

For example, have event promoters got it right or are there things that need be done to improve the situation?

I would be very interested to see any opinions on event security.

Denis.

[Guest]

evening missP x

[Guest]

would we have to go back to the good old days of Membership Cards????

[FrankM]

It is no longer down to the courts, it is now down to the local councils. Mind you, look what the council in Wigan did back in '81.

This is the key point . Local control and local objections. It took some time in Scotland but there have been a few committee members who decided to use their position of Chairs of licensing to appear in the papers on a regular basis.They used the powers of the Licensing court to impose curfews, curtail and occasionally extend hours , improve hygiene and stop happy hours. From a position of struggling to get a quorum licensing coarts have become the springboards for launching a serious political career.

We nearly lost the Woodside last year down to one objector due to the noise associated with people leaving a club.

[Billywhizz]

JUST ONE QUESTION???????? if the bars are open all night for alchohol how are we gonna keep the locals out?????? not the peacefull ones but the ones who will come in have to much beer etc etc start fights etc etc as for myself if im at a nighter and a pissed up divvie starts giving me grief fur will fly!

Good question had problems at the last Marrs I just show my pimple on my bum then they ran. Billy

[SteveM]

I had a meeting with the manager of middleton civic last thursday,and hopefully we will have the bars open right through the niters.I was told that the police are objecting to practicaly every application for allnite licenses but as long as the premises meet any provisions the police ask for ie,cctv licensed door staff etc the courts will accept it.Obviously i can only comment on middleton but that is the info i have.So shane see you at the bar in 2006.

Andy, I went to the first one and dont think the bar ever closed

[Guest ShaneH]

cheers for the input on here. i am sure plenty find this of interest.

Shane

ps. ms murray...i am worth it my jokes get better with drink i reckon

[Guest ShaneH]

Good main topic. Good replies.

Interesting spin of topic to--Security at Venues.

Wonder if there is opinion out there on the correct level of security required at venues under current circumstanses ie increasing theft, potential bombers and the new drinking hours.

For example, have event promoters got it right or are there things that need be done to improve the situation?

I would be very interested to see any opinions on event security.

Denis.

good questions here. i am sure people like andy mccabe can add to this. over to you andy...

shane

[Guest Ms Murray]

cheers for the input on here. i am sure plenty find this of interest.

Shane

ps. ms murray...i am worth it my jokes get better with drink i reckon

Glad YOU think so Shane!

I'm just trying to get told off for making inappropriate comments!!!

[Winsford Soul]

Right behind you on that one, let's hope that the promoters who take advantage of the new laws won't start letting idiots in after hour's elsewhere. Ive known of two rather nasty fights this year and both caused by drunk non soulies being allowed into soul do's

I only let idiots into my venue. Dont allow non soulies in though. The bar shuts at 11pm so its coffee and soft drinks till 7am. Traditional nighter like in the old black and white days.

[Paul R]

The bar shuts at 11pm so its coffee and soft drinks till 7am. Traditional nighter like in the old black and white days.

You could always lean over the Bar in Mr. Ms at Wigan and pour yourself a pint at any time of the night. Didn't everyone try it . And what's this about potentiontial bombers? have they started making them again

Paul

[Winsford Soul]

You could always lean over the Bar in Mr. Ms at Wigan and pour yourself a pint at any time of the night. Didn't everyone try it . And what's this about potentiontial bombers? have they started making them again

Paul

Steve

[Guest Soultown andy]

We will have extended hours at middleton,which in my opinion and the venue managers is a good thing.We already have in house door staff who are all long term soulies to make sure drunks trouble makers etc will not be allowed in,the longer drinking hours will infact keep down the bar prices and because of the extra revenue there will be no increase in the hire of the venue,so no increase in admission charges.So i for one welcome these changes,but as pointed out as long as the venues are run properly and there is no hike in prices.

[Ady Croasdell]

100 Club will be the same as normal. To be honest i wouldn't want it any more boozy it's just about right for a niter. Now the Xmas party is another thing entirely!

[Ged Parker]

Hi All,

Good topic this one!! The new Act should not affect Soul Events that much if at all, as long as the venue has a 'Premesis License' and the Manager or nominated name holder of venue has a 'Personal License' . It takes way all the problems promotors have had re the old Occasional Lisence and Occasional Premesis License that was atiquted to say the least, it should make life easier when applying for longer hours, as long as you know what tp apply for .

The 24hour 'Thing ' has been exaggerated by the press, making the public belive that all pubss ,clubs etc will be open 24 seven, what a load of crap. there are provisions to counter act this by a premesis only being allowed longer hours 50 times a year, and personal License holder 12 times a year, however within the times requested if alcohol is to be served say at 4am the premesis must have a 'Licensed Activity' going on at the same time, so events with dancing with music will be ok as this classed as a Licensed activity.

The drinking of alcohol is NOT a Licensed Activity it's only the sale of alcohol, so in theory they have legalised 'Lock ins' for example say a pub or club have to stop Selling alcohol at 2am, there is nothing stopping you bying 20 pints and sit and drink them and take as long as you like ( not to sure how the bar staff would take this!!!),

If a club goes down this route stops the selling of alcohol at 2am, but will stay open to 4, NO licensed activity can take place, only the drinking of alcohol bought before 2am , therefore if you apply for the wrong License, you could be breaking the rules which could effect Soul events.

I'm not an expert in this, it;s just I'm a training Officer with my employers who have just sent me on a course on this subject and I'm delivering it now to members of staff

If anyone wants any advice or has any question youcan e-mail me on conroypylb@aol.com I'm more than willing to help

Paul Conroy

Tyneside Soul Promotions

Paul,

Far from it being easier to apply for longer hours it is much more complex. This will involve an application to vary the licence unless the new licence has been granted already for the longer hours with the attached condition that the LA and Police will be notified say 14 days in advance when they are going to be used.

An application to vary requires the statutory notices to be posted etc and can open up the application to objections from 'Interested parties' under any of the four pillars of the Licensing Act. The alternative is a Temporary Event Notice which may not even require a DPS presence in some instances.

In terms of selling 'til 2 am and people drinking until much later that is fine if no other 'Licensable Activity' takes place dancing and the provision of music is certainly 'Licensable Activity' so this is of no value to soul venues. The operation Plan for the outlet will also be 'conditionised' and added to the license as conditions and any deviation from this operating plan will be deamed as operating outwith the conditions of the license and therefore in breach of it.

You are confusing the 12 times a year issue with the ability to apply for a TEN not the right of a PLH to operate new hours in their own venue.

It is a minefield without a doubt and I have been discussing this all week - Sunday nite was the Best Bar None Awards in Manchester, Monday I was addressing the Institute of Licensing's Conference in York, Tuesday - was the 'Responsible Drinks Retailing Awards' and the Corporate Social Responsibily Conference at the the Park Lane Hotel London. I have spoken to Journalists, Licensing Solicitors, Police Officers, Licensing Proffessionals Jon Collins from BEDA and both Paul Goggins and Hazel Blears. The ministers were understandably defensive but everyone else would appear to be convinced case law is going to be needed to sort out all sorts of issues.

The review of the Guidance to the Act has been brought forward to Feb rather than Nov next year and the third AMEC (Alcohol Missuse Enforcement Campaign) is now in full flow. The enforcement agencies will have many more powers to review licenses and as one Inspector put it to me 'Strip Out some of the over capacity in the trade'

What was being touted as a socially liberal measure has changed significantly sing the 'If You Dont Give a XXXX for closing time vote Labour' campaign. Don't be too sure this is a brave new world.

I would caution anyone making assumptions and advise in all but the most basic cases a licensing solicitor is consulted by the venue operators.

Its been a long week as you can probably tell sorry for sounding off.

Ged

[Michael Fuchs]

100 Club will be the same as normal. To be honest i wouldn't want it any more boozy it's just about right for a niter. Now the Xmas party is another thing entirely!

Now the booze is too expensive down there anyway

[Guest ShaneH]

Did your local soul night extend the drinking times this weekend?

Shane

[Ady Croasdell]

Now the booze is too expensive down there anyway

It would be, the amount you get through!

[Guest dundeedavie]

anyone know what'll happen with he smoking ban as well ?

Davie

[Guest]

anyone know what'll happen with he smoking ban as well ?

Davie

Yes, I will be continally thrown out of places

[Guest becky c]

Yes, I will be continally thrown out of places

Oh no, nobody would ever dare throw out Darth Vader

[Chalky]

Yes, I will be continally thrown out of places

and so you should...bad habit

[Guest]

Oh no, nobody would ever dare throw out Darth Vader

Thats true Becky Your wee doggie looks very familiar to me, kind of almost record dealerish, although I don't know why

and so you should...bad habit

[Guest becky c]

Thats true Becky Your wee doggie looks very familiar to me, kind of almost record dealerish, although I don't know why

[Guest Soultown andy]

I dj,d at an allniter in bolton on friday nite,the bar was on till 8am in the morning no problems what so ever to be honest i don,t think it will make any difference to the soul scene what so ever.

[Guest]

It will just save most of us the trouble of sneeking the alcohol in in the first place LOL

[Guest]

Good main topic. Good replies.

Interesting spin of topic to--Security at Venues.

Wonder if there is opinion out there on the correct level of security required at venues under current circumstanses ie increasing theft, potential bombers and the new drinking hours.

For example, have event promoters got it right or are there things that need be done to improve the situation?

I would be very interested to see any opinions on event security.

Denis.

I have always wondered about the security at nighters.

Are they there to protect us or police us and are they a requirement of the owner of the building.

I presume they do not come cheap and any promoter would therefore have the minumum they could get away with.

Interestingly you never seem to have security at soul nights which are self policing.

[Guest]

I have always wondered about the security at nighters.

Are they there to protect us or police us and are they a requirement of the owner of the building.

I presume they do not come cheap and any promoter would therefore have the minumum they could get away with.

Interestingly you never seem to have security at soul nights which are self policing.

I don't know but would imagine the building and licence to have an all nighter would require security, personally don't like to see them myself, makes me feel guilty for nothing a bit like when I see a policeman

[Dolly13]

100 Club will be the same as normal. To be honest i wouldn't want it any more boozy it's just about right for a niter. Now the Xmas party is another thing entirely!

Couldn't agree more ..

[sister dawn]

George Best gets to the pearly gates and St Peter is there to welcome him....

"Hello George" says St Peter "we are honoured that you are here, you are a true legend, the worlds best footballer of all time"

"Don't you give me all that" says George, "All this bloody time, the near misses I have had, you bunch of b******s, the first F*****g day of 24 hour opening and where am I?"