Curtis - How Can I Tell Her - Variations

[Cunnie]

Just managed to snare a copy of the Curtis classic How Can I Tell Her 1932 without the boom boom Disco sound effects that appear on the 1879 version.

Have had the common 1879 version for ages & also a few copies of the 12" but it has took me more years than I care to mention to track down a 1932 copy.

Have had a look through popsike & it seems to be all 1879 or 12" copies then I noticed that no demo copies are on there either but I am sure I have seen a demo of the 7" 1879 & also a demo of the 12".

Then I got thinking if there is a 12" cut of the 1932 version as it seems strange to make a 12" edit of the first version but not the 2nd version. Never seen or heard of one & would love to be proved wrong.

Also see that Mr Manship has listed both 7" versions at £70 but surely the 1932 cut must be valued a hell of a lot higher than the 1879 cut as it's so much scarcer.

Anyone?

[Guest Nick Harrison]

In support of your post Martin, never heard of a 12" of the Charm City 1932 number, which make's the Charm City 1932 45 cut a whole lot scarcer and harder to locate. Which should in this mad world of soul science, have a far great value than the more commoner Charm City 1879 copies.

Sorry that's not really of any help is it...!!!

Just out of interest - is the Charm City 1932 45 label also orange or not.

Cheers,

Nikolas.

[Cunnie]

Hi Nick & thanks for the reply.

Label is identical to the 1879 cut apart from the serial number so yes it's orange.

Not got a 12" copy now but don't think the serial number matched the 7" release but seems logical that somewhere there is a 12" copy of the later version.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Hi again Cunnie,

yes would agree it does seem rather logical that a formated 12" should/could have been outputed of the 1932 edited verson.

Steve Plumb, well I will credit Sir Plumbob, for making others aware of the 2 diffrent 45 version's, many years earlier. So maybe Steve could shed some light on the missing extended later 12" version, should of course Steve read or spot this thread.

Thanks and regards,

Nick.

[John Benson]

Judging from the numbering, it would appear that the 1932 copy was released later.

Is the timing on the label shorter also? It's 4mins 50 on the 1879 release.

Any chance of a scan of it Martin?

[Sebastian]

Is the timing on the label shorter also?

Yes.

Any chance of a scan of it?

Scans of both issues, side by side, can be found here:

[Steve Plumb]

Hi again Cunnie,

yes would agree it does seem rather logical that a formated 12" should/could have been outputed of the 1932 edited verson.

Steve Plumb, well I will credit Sir Plumbob, for making others aware of the 2 diffrent 45 version's, many years earlier. So maybe Steve could shed some light on the missing extended later 12" version, should of course Steve read or spot this thread.

Thanks and regards,

Nick.

Oh yes Nick, I'm here mate and of course I spotted the thread

Great to read the other thread from June 2008 too, glad you finally got one Cunnie

I'd stick my neck out and say there isn't a 12" of the later version BUT would gladly be proved wrong!

Cheers

Steve

[Pete S]

Am I being a dumbo here, I've got this 12" but can't see any of the catalogue numbers mentioned or are they just for 7"

[Sebastian]

Am I being a dumbo here, I've got this 12" but can't see any of the catalogue numbers mentioned or are they just for 7"

Cat# for "boing boing" 12" is DM 81853.

Cat# for "boing boing" 7" is DM 1879.

Cat# for "non-sound effects" 7" is MD 1932 (says DM 1932 in the deadwax, so "MD" on the label is probably a printing error).

Edited November 28, 2011 by Sebastian

[Steve Plumb]

Am I being a dumbo here, I've got this 12" but can't see any of the catalogue numbers mentioned or are they just for 7"

That's the 'boom boom' version though isn't it Pete?

[Pete S]

That's the 'boom boom' version though isn't it Pete?

What the f*ck is the boom boom version, I wouldn't know one from the other, you don't think I've actually played this do you?

[Steve Plumb]

What the f*ck is the boom boom version, I wouldn't know one from the other, you don't think I've actually played this do you?

Hee Hee you don't fail to disappoint Pete (and I mean that in the nicest possible way )

Even as i was typing 'boom boom' i was picturing your reply and it was bob on word for word what i expected

Top man!

Cheers

Steve

ps It's the syndrum 'boom boom' effect on the intro and later on in the break. This is what's missing from the later 45

[Pete S]

Hee Hee you don't fail to disappoint Pete (and I mean that in the nicest possible way )

Even as i was typing 'boom boom' i was picturing your reply and it was bob on word for word what i expected

Top man!

Cheers

Steve

ps It's the syndrum 'boom boom' effect on the intro and later on in the break. This is what's missing from the later 45

OK I'll check it now.

Managed to listen to about 10 seconds of it, it sure does go boom boom, sounds like the Village People.

p.s. how much should I ask for alfie davison mercury 12" serious business?

[sepia]

the boom boom version has a backing sound like lazer guns from star wars,the other dosn't.

ive had both & like the none boom boom better,lol.

[Modernsoulsucks]

I found this around Sept 79 [so a newish release] in Midwest Distributors in St. Louis. Sold it to Richard on my return as part of my cunning plan to undermine the modern scene from within.

Judging from the number of people who don't like the sound effects I reckon the plan is slowly reaching fruition.

ROD

[Jnixon]

I found this around Sept 79 [so a newish release] in Midwest Distributors in St. Louis. Sold it to Richard on my return as part of my cunning plan to undermine the modern scene from within.

Judging from the number of people who don't like the sound effects I reckon the plan is slowly reaching fruition.

ROD

there is a surprising number of younger collectors who dig the 'boooow' sounds. Guess this may at least even things out, if not tip the scales against you.

Think there was even a facebook page devoted to it a few years back. Soul with Booooow

[Russ Vickers]

I have money waiting for a clean copy of the non 'boom, boom' version, can paypal immediately. PM me.

BTW is the non version on Youtube ?.

Best Russ

[Val (Chunky)]

I have money waiting for a clean copy of the non 'boom, boom' version, can paypal immediately. PM me.

BTW is the non version on Youtube ?.

Best Russ

yes Russ it's on my Channel as is the other version

here's a link thing:

https://www.youtube.com/user/ValChunky?feature=mhee#p/search/1/HAx8eMgLcsA

[Guest Nick Harrison]

I found this around Sept 79 [so a newish release] in Midwest Distributors in St. Louis. Sold it to Richard on my return as part of my cunning plan to undermine the modern scene from within.

Judging from the number of people who don't like the sound effects I reckon the plan is slowly reaching fruition.

ROD

Rod - that earlier version was always a "bad fruit" back then - but by heck thanks for the later superior version finds. But at the same time -whoever introduced the Watts City orange and blue copies of Bileo - You Can Win, also did a seriously good job of damaging the sound of the newer released little label soul played back them..............Kev Roberts was it not....................... .

[Russ Vickers]

yes Russ it's on my Channel as is the other version

here's a link thing:

https://www.youtube.c...h/1/HAx8eMgLcsA

Thanks Val, hope your well mate - dont wanna give me an early Xmas prezzie do ya .

See ya soon

Best Russ

[Shinehead]

Is my memory playing tricks? but i'm sure this got booted in the 80s coupled with Bill Harris and another track which i can't recall .

[Windlesoul]

Is my memory playing tricks? but i'm sure this got booted in the 80s coupled with Bill Harris and another track which i can't recall .

From memory was SOS 12 " with Voices from East Harlem - Cashing in

[Guest]

I'll stick with the proper copy, the other copy is just for show off's.

[Cunnie]

Thanks for the replies everybody. All more than welcome.

Also seem to remember hearing that Dave Thorley sold some of the 1932 copies without realising. Ring any bells?

Still not sure about a value for the later 1932 version though & before anyone asks it's not for sale

[Soulman]

Gonna have to get my thinking head on and my searching head. Way back when, around the time this was released and was just getting exposure, I got some $ together along with Andy Rix and sent off for some copies. There were indeed two different versions of 12" that arrived through the post some weeks later but we thought little of it at the time. I think we got around 8 copies, one of which I opened and DJ'd nwith, one of which (the different mix) I kept as a file copy and a couple that Andy had. The rest (and I don't know which versions they are as I didn't open them) remain in my loft still sealed.

Interesting stuff methinks. If anybody speaks to Andy or if he sees this post, maybe he can shed more light on it

Steve

[Shinehead]

From memory was SOS 12 " with Voices from East Harlem - Cashing in

Thats the one ! . Sorry i should mentioned it was a 12 inch.

Edited November 28, 2011 by shinehead

[Ady Croasdell]

I always hated that synth sound but sitting here listening to the non-boom boom, I actually prefer it with da boom. Funny old game!

[John Benson]

Interesting comments, thanks for the link to the earlier thread Sebastian, I now vaguely remember seeing it before.

Never was keen of the 'syndrum' mix when it was first played!

Don't think I'll be chasing the copy currently 'on sale' though!

[Bakersoul]

Me too....i like the version "with the boom"....it delivers a little magic to this disco killer !!

BakerSoul

[Windlesoul]

Did they nick the sonic booms (or beam) idea from this?!

Edited November 30, 2011 by mark w.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Great to read the other thread from June 2008 too, glad you finally got one Cunnie

Cheers

Steve

Funny old world ain't it...........................lets hope Martin your as lucky with a copy of The Sunburst Band. Christ folks were falling over em in 2004/5, just goes to show, that nowadays how infrequent copies do appear. .

Should of course this post jog a few along into parting with one or help assist you with your "wants".

Edited December 1, 2011 by Nick Harrison

[Davetay]

What the f*ck is the boom boom version, I wouldn't know one from the other, you don't think I've actually played this do you?

PMSL.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Did they nick the sonic booms (or beam) idea from this?!

I get the drift of the boom boom theme Mark, but a better example is the 7.37 version of Richard Flowers - For Real which was played and accepted for the more syncopated sound in the late seventies by the UK Jazz Funk scene first. When compared too his top shelf edit of his own "45" take and production, a far superior classic that enhances smoothness with soul. The 45 being the only version to own, sell and then reown again IMHO.

Nick .

[Andy Rix]

Here's confirmation of the date

I don't recall any of those we purchased being any version but the disco one

I spoke to James Lindsay last year, he has no stock left of 7" or 12"

He said they released the non-disco version first but rapidly replaced it, with the boom boom version, at the suggestion of local DJs who thought it would do better in the emerging disco market

Best

Andy

[Soulman]

Here's confirmation of the date

I don't recall any of those we purchased being any version but the disco one

I spoke to James Lindsay last year, he has no stock left of 7" or 12"

He said they released the non-disco version first but rapidly replaced it, with the boom boom version, at the suggestion of local DJs who thought it would do better in the emerging disco market

Best

Andy

You're a hoarder Mr Rix ... how the heck did you find that letter ??? There were definitely two different mixes that we got though unless I acquired it somewhere else. By the way, how much did they cost us, can you remember?

Best

Steve

[Andy Rix]

You must have got it somewhere else ... but we ordered about 10 copies and they were given out 'sealed' so can't discount the possibility that one of them was a non-disco 12" version although I'm sure I looked at them all and labels were exeactly the same

I think we paid $10 each for them

Andy

[Steve Plumb]

Here's confirmation of the date

I don't recall any of those we purchased being any version but the disco one

I spoke to James Lindsay last year, he has no stock left of 7" or 12"

He said they released the non-disco version first but rapidly replaced it, with the boom boom version, at the suggestion of local DJs who thought it would do better in the emerging disco market

Best

Andy

Hi Andy

Thanks for the info

Interesting to note he said the disco version came second even though the numbering suggests it came first?

Although saying that i'm not aware of 52 other releases on Charm City so the numbering must not be in release order!

Cheers

Steve

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Hope this could be of some use.https://www.dcsoulrecordings.com/index.php?id=27. (this link does not work - see below).

Listed Charm City release's (not 52 either) and also details of many other local area artist and label release's.

If the above link does not work, type in DC soul: Charm City into you search.

Thanks.

If you have not visited this site before - it's well worth a viewing, just for the artist's photo gallery, as well as the superb catalouges from 1960's to the 1980's included, not forgetting the wealth of information freely available. Indeed - this is a rich history well worth your perusal.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Nick Harrison

[Steve Plumb]

Hope this could be of some use.https://www.dcsoulrecordings.com/index.php?id=27. (this link does not work - see below).

Listed Charm City release's (not 52 either) and also details of many other local area artist and label release's.

If the above link does not work, type in DC soul: Charm City into you search.

Thanks.

If you have not visited this site before - it's well worth a viewing, just for the artist's photo gallery, as well as the superb catalouges from 1960's to the 1980's included, not forgetting the wealth of information freely available. Indeed - this is a rich history well worth your perusal.

Nice one NIck

10 releases then!

Just checked me R&B Indies book and that only lists 5!

Great site that isn't it?

Cheers

Steve

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Good morning Steve,

nice to see your up and mixing it so early Sir Plumbob, spotted you had endured 2 very late nites last week...............community radio in the green belt suburban Cheshire and a late 12.35 am post on here!!!

Yah - great site which hopefully proves the "non release" of the non disco edited 12" version on Charm City.

A seriously well documented site.

Thanks,

Nikolas.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Nick Harrison

[Steve G]

Here's confirmation of the date

I don't recall any of those we purchased being any version but the disco one

I spoke to James Lindsay last year, he has no stock left of 7" or 12"

He said they released the non-disco version first but rapidly replaced it, with the boom boom version, at the suggestion of local DJs who thought it would do better in the emerging disco market

Best

Andy

I got hold of Curtis (Anderson) in 1981 - not sure how now - probably via phone book as he was a Radio DJ in Baltimore. He sent me over 2 x 12" and a whole host of Charm City 7s, biogs and photos of other artists as well as himself - all of which weren't very good. Remember posting the pic of Curtis on the cover of Blackbeat and doing a little feature on him! The record was still hot at the time (Wigan, Clifton Hall) and I have to say the "boom boom" version always had something about it

Andy when you wrote to him he had probably just done "The Hardest Part" - did he send you any copies of that?

[Modernsoulsucks]

Hi Andy

He said they released the non-disco version first but rapidly replaced it, with the boom boom version, at the suggestion of local DJs who thought it would do better in the emerging disco market

That's an interesting comment. Disco may have had it's day which might explain it's lack of success. That Midwest place was a DJ Pool too so when I was in there a lot of dj's were going through latest releases. I remember very excited huddle around a Sugar Hill release [i think "Birthday Party"].

Gene Anderson worked there too.

ROD

[Andy Rix]

Hi Steve

I didn't get any copies of 'The Hardest Part' .... I never spoke to Curtis just James Lindsay...

In 2000 I contacted George Tobin searching for copies of THP without any result. I'm pretty sure he had some but wasn't very forthcoming about them.

What was of interest was being told that the song was written for and recorded by David Ruffin but the project was shelved as David, apparently, ran into some problems with the IRS which created some problems. George said the tracks remain unreleased in the Motown vault .... .George then cut the track on Curtis Anderson some time later

I also spoke to the co-writer Gary Goetzman who never knew that Curtis had cut the track .. he said there wass a possibility that Mike Piccirillo, the other co-writer, had the unreleased David Ruffin version on tape

So .. if anybody wants a challenge in tracking the DR version down start looking for Mike .. I never got round it

Andy

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Hi Steve

I didn't get any copies of 'The Hardest Part' .... I never spoke to Curtis just James Lindsay...

In 2000 I contacted George Tobin searching for copies of THP without any result. I'm pretty sure he had some but wasn't very forthcoming about them.

What was of interest was being told that the song was written for and recorded by David Ruffin but the project was shelved as David, apparently, ran into some problems with the IRS which created some problems. George said the tracks remain unreleased in the Motown vault .... .George then cut the track on Curtis Anderson some time later

I also spoke to the co-writer Gary Goetzman who never knew that Curtis had cut the track .. he said there wass a possibility that Mike Piccirillo, the other co-writer, had the unreleased David Ruffin version on tape

So .. if anybody wants a challenge in tracking the DR version down start looking for Mike .. I never got round it

Andy

Thanks for the above, it would now make it a lot clearer and safer to say that producer George Tobin and both co writers Mike Piccirillo and Gary Goetyman. Had no serious involvement with the later 12" version of Donald Albert's "THP" on Run A Way Records, or even known of it's release ?

Making Donald's effort just a repeat of this song, but then with the first Brown Bag 45 suffering from a serious shortage of copies and a version in the vaults.......................make's you just wonder.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Nick Harrison