Cover Ups - Do They Still Exist?

[Simsy]

Records don't seem to be covered up anymore. I wonder if the scene has grown out of that sort of thing?

I always felt that cover-ups added to the mystique of the scene, but wondered if they were ever really necessary. If a DJ broke a big sound he or she would be known for breaking that sound and any copyist would just be a chancer.

So have they really died out? Were they ever really necessary?

Edited November 15, 2005 by Ian Sims

[Guest James Trouble]

Records don't seem to be covered up anymore. I wonder if the scene has grown out of that sort of thing?

I always felt that cover-ups added to the mystique of the scene, but wondered if they were ever really necessary. If a DJ broke a big sound he or she would be known for breaking that sound and any copyist would just be a chancer.

So have they really died out? Where they ever really necessary?

title amended. Shane

It's pretty hard to find records no one else knows.

[Guest Baz]

Records don't seem to be covered up anymore. I wonder if the scene has grown out of that sort of thing?

I always felt that cover-ups added to the mystique of the scene, but wondered if they were ever really necessary. If a DJ broke a big sound he or she would be known for breaking that sound and any copyist would just be a chancer.

So have they really died out? Where they ever really necessary?

Simple its not as easy to find a unknown that is good enough to 'cover up' .......cover ups arn't always done to keep things a secret, just as a example take Andy Dysons Rita & the Tiarras cover up.......if you call it that it causes a bit of a stir with the dancers, i mean i havent got a clue who it is but say for arguments sake its Joan and the dopplegangers hasn't quite got it has it

[Simsy]

It's pretty hard to find records no one else knows.

True, but your Ree Flores for example, back in the day may have been broken as B J Thomas. But we've grown out of that sort of thing haven't we?

[Rugby Soul Club]

Simple its not as easy to find a unknown that is good enough to 'cover up' .......cover ups arn't always done to keep things a secret, just as a example take Andy Dysons Rita & the Tiarras cover up.......if you call it that it causes a bit of a stir with the dancers, i mean i havent got a clue who it is but say for arguments sake its Joan and the dopplegangers hasn't quite got it has it

Donna Coleman....cover up

[Simsy]

Simple its not as easy to find a unknown that is good enough to 'cover up' .......cover ups arn't always done to keep things a secret, just as a example take Andy Dysons Rita & the Tiarras cover up.......if you call it that it causes a bit of a stir with the dancers, i mean i havent got a clue who it is but say for arguments sake its Joan and the dopplegangers hasn't quite got it has it

So we are running out of new sounds to discover?

[Guest miff]

Records don't seem to be covered up anymore. I wonder if the scene has grown out of that sort of thing?

I always felt that cover-ups added to the mystique of the scene, but wondered if they were ever really necessary. If a DJ broke a big sound he or she would be known for breaking that sound and any copyist would just be a chancer.

So have they really died out? Where they ever really necessary?

I for one can see no reason to cover up a record, heard all the arguments for it and can understand the reasons why its done, put as a punter and being around for a while I can remember when people covered up records because they new they could'nt get away with playing them under the artists name that recorded them. Micky mouse Concerto for instance.I think and hope we are well past that stage now and belive that the artist that recorded tha tune should get the credit for the work that he/she did in the first place, Credit should also go to the person who discoverd the record played it out first etc etc, I dont see how covering it up helps in giving that person his credit. If a person is going to pinch the sound and claim it for thereselves they will still do it it just makes it harder. If its rare its rare covering it up dosnt make it any rearer , if its a common record let us all have the chance to own a copy.

All IMO of course

[Blake H]

Just bought Richard Searlings new compilation cd "Music that matters to me" and in the liner notes Richard says when talking about (track 4) Fire by Crosswind "This exclusive was my 80s cover up, artist renamed as Patrick Moten! Such was the intensity of rivalry between both Djs and record importers at the time that re-titling became a necessity to aviod copyists and parasitical ploys by those who wished to feed freely off the hard work and creativity of others"

So there you have it from the man himself

BH

[Simsy]

I for one can see no reason to cover up a record, heard all the arguments for it and can understand the reasons why its done, put as a punter and being around for a while I can remember when people covered up records because they new they could'nt get away with playing them under the artists name that recorded them. Micky mouse Concerto for instance.I think and hope we are well past that stage now and belive that the artist that recorded tha tune should get the credit for the work that he/she did in the first place, Credit should also go to the person who discoverd the record played it out first etc etc, I dont see how covering it up helps in giving that person his credit. If a person is going to pinch the sound and claim it for thereselves they will still do it it just makes it harder. If its rare its rare covering it up dosnt make it any rearer , if its a common record let us all have the chance to own a copy.

All IMO of course

Good opinions IMO. Especially covering because the real artist was so naff Lenny Gamble!

Edited November 15, 2005 by Ian Sims

[Dayo]

Records were also covered up to put Soussan off the scent for a few weeks!

[steve z]

Records don't seem to be covered up anymore. I wonder if the scene has grown out of that sort of thing?

I always felt that cover-ups added to the mystique of the scene, but wondered if they were ever really necessary. If a DJ broke a big sound he or she would be known for breaking that sound and any copyist would just be a chancer.

So have they really died out? Were they ever really necessary?

Hi Ian, Butch still covers records and I think its good fun trying to "name that tune"

I have a few covered up , some are "B" sides that have been overlooked.I still think the "mystery" and "intrigue" and conjecture cover ups provide is ,although much less now ,as pointed out in another reply,

still part of listening to and collecting soul .Oh IMHO.ATB Steve

[Guest]

I have two cover-up's at the moment, one's really great, the other im still not 100% sure about and yet to play it out anywhere, had fun making up the titles though LOL

[Simsy]

I have two cover-up's at the moment, one's really great, the other im still not 100% sure about and yet to play it out anywhere, had fun making up the titles though LOL

Do tell

[Guest ShaneH]

Cover ups are sold too if I am right. the buyer is sworn into secrecy as the seller usually as another copy.

is this true and does it happen?

Janine, did you discover these cover-ups or did you buy them as cover ups?

Shane

[Gene-r]

My current Al Reed "Let Me Know" cover-up still has people guessing (wrongly!).

Gene

[Simsy]

A Tune that is still covered by Ady at the 100 Club is 'Why Can't it be Tonight' - Gerri Granger c/u. He did tell us who it was by on a couple of occasions, yet still it is covered. Weird eh?

Edited November 15, 2005 by Ian Sims

[Guest Baz]

A Tune that is still covered by Ady at the 100 Club is 'Why Can't it be Tonight' - Gerri Granger c/u. He did tell us who it was by on a couple of occasions, yet still it is covered. Weired eh?

Same as the Eric lomax/ Little Major Williams.....some people still announce it as E L some announce it as LMW

[Guest Stuart T]

"titling became a necessity to aviod copyists and parasitical ploys by those who wished to feed freely off the hard work and creativity of others"

I really don't understand this. I seem to recall reading that RS had a hissy fit when someone turned up Jon & the Wierdest (is that right anyone?). If someone does see fit to cover up a record its absolutely fair game for someone else to go out and find it. Parasitical? Creativity of others? Run that by the original artist when you make money out of playing their records and don't even give them credit. Not a pop at RS but I just find this incomprehensible.

[Blake H]

I really don't understand this. I seem to recall reading that RS had a hissy fit when someone turned up Jon & the Wierdest (is that right anyone?). If someone does see fit to cover up a record its absolutely fair game for someone else to go out and find it. Parasitical? Creativity of others? Run that by the original artist when you make money out of playing their records and don't even give them credit. Not a pop at RS but I just find this incomprehensible.

Me too, thats why I posted it. Guess its an attempt at justifying cover ups.

BH

[Simsy]

Me too, thats why I posted it. Guess its an attempt at justifying cover ups.

BH

This is the thing, as stated at the top of the page. Was the practice ever really necessary?

[Blake H]

Sorry. No and Yes

BH

[Guest Stuart T]

Sorry. No and Yes

BH

I disagree

[stomper45]

.... Run that by the original artist when you make money out of playing their records and don't even give them credit. Not a pop at RS but I just find this incomprehensible.

Likely that no one would have heard the tune if it wasnt for dj discovery, most NS djs dont exactly draw big dosh

dd

[Guest Stuart T]

Likely that no one would have heard the tune if it wasnt for dj discovery, most NS djs dont exactly draw big dosh

dd

It could be as big a tune without covering it up.

[Simsy]

Sorry. No and Yes

BH

I disagree

I'm lost

[stomper45]

It could be as big a tune without covering it up.

Sure it would be, was just responding to your point re a dj making money out of an artist, in that unearthing a new tune isnt primarily money motivated more kudos methinks.

Many djs spend alot of time and money to bring something fresh to the scene, see no harm in them having an edge for a while for their efforts. I think it adds to the mystique and creates more interest especially when finally "outed".

Unfortunately the act doesnt usually come first with Northern Soul, hence all the moaning about putting up with live acts at gigs!

Its a bit like finding a great unknown source for Northern 45's would you tell everyone and help the proprietor to increase business or keep it too yourself

danny

[Paul R]

Records were also covered up to put Soussan off the scent for a few weeks!

Unless it was him covering them up like Moses Smith/ You Don't Love Me, and the all time Classic, Footsee by the Sounds Of Soul

Paul

[Guest]

I really don't understand this. I seem to recall reading that RS had a hissy fit when someone turned up Jon & the Wierdest (is that right anyone?). If someone does see fit to cover up a record its absolutely fair game for someone else to go out and find it. Parasitical? Creativity of others? Run that by the original artist when you make money out of playing their records and don't even give them credit. Not a pop at RS but I just find this incomprehensible.

Think RS had a hissy when Kev Draper (I think) uncovered Cecil Washington. Funnily enough RS now thinks it's ridiculous to cover up records. Guess it was OK for him to do it at the time because "it stopped the bootleggers"lol or just maybe it stopped fellow djs getting copies & so he was the man with the only copy? So what's changed? surely it's still about playing something different & if DJs can't be bothered to use a bit of imagination & pick up some good semi knowns & just rely on a big wallet to buy everything that other djs play I don't blame some people covering their records up.

Dave G

[Simsy]

RS now thinks it's ridiculous to cover up records. Dave G

As I suspected and I think this is now the general consensus.

[Iancsloft]

I cover 45,s all the time ( with my dj box lid )

[Guest ShaneH]

I cover 45,s all the time ( with my dj box lid )

i remember someone at sheridans covering the labels with cuttings from those magazines usually found on the top shelf of your local newsagent. might have been andy dyson or rob thomas? may be wrong too!

still funny whoever it was!

Shane

[Simsy]

Wonder who this was .. ?

NORTHERN SOUL###COVER UP###GLORIA HADEN###

End price:

GBP

180

End date:

2004-04-26

Start price:

GBP

100

Start date:

2004-04-19

Number of bids:

8

Auctioned at:

ebay

Country:

Great Britain

GLORIA HADEN....GOTTA MAKE YOU LOVE ME....

THIS IS A C/U ....PHONE ME TO HEAR IT...THIS IS GOING TO BE A MONSTER SOUND ....ONLY 2 OTHER COPIES BOTH OF WHICH I SOLD !!!!!!!!!

SO IF YOU WANT SOMETHING THAT WILL BE A MASSIVE SOUND FOR YOU THIS COULD BE IT!!!!!

0208 339 9898 ....6PM..TO..10PM

[Guest]

Cover ups are sold too if I am right. the buyer is sworn into secrecy as the seller usually as another copy.

is this true and does it happen?

Janine, did you discover these cover-ups or did you buy them as cover ups?

Shane

One of each

[Guest ShaneH]

One of each

were you sworn to secrecy or did you beg the seller to keep quiet?

Shane

[Guest]

Neither, know for a fact the seller would never uncover it as he sold it as a cover up to me and he is one of the most decent guys around. And as I don't plan on ever selling any of my records it also won't be an issue for me. If someone else finds it and plays it out covered up or not I really wouldn't be at all bothered, but I shant be the one to uncover it out of respect

[Guest Andy BB]

Aren't we now at the stage where so many records have been unearthed and heard by so many people over so many years that if you find a tune now that is capable of being covered up (ie so few people have heard it that it won't be identified) it's going to be absolutely mentally sh*t rare anyway?

So, spill the beans, and good luck to anyone who can find a copy.

[Guest]

Your pretty much right ther Andy, the record I found which I have covered up myself I know it's shit rare and the people who have heard it don't know it.......... I am only covering it up for a giggle as I wanted a record by Princess Nini and the Snowflakes

tra lalalalaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Simsy]

Aren't we now at the stage where so many records have been unearthed and heard by so many people over so many years that if you find a tune now that is capable of being covered up (ie so few people have heard it that it won't be identified) it's going to be absolutely mentally sh*t rare anyway?

So, spill the beans, and good luck to anyone who can find a copy.

Really thought this post was goig to read like this;

Aren't we now at the stage where so many records have been unearthed and heard by so many people over so many years that if you find a tune now that is capable of being covered up (ie so few people have heard it that it won't be identified) it's going to be absolutely mentally sh*t anyway?

An element of truth in both perhaps?

[Guest Paul]

...re-titling became a necessity to aviod copyists and parasitical ploys by those who wished to feed freely off the hard work and creativity of others"

I know where Richard is coming from but this still isn't justification. Music is intended for mass consumption, not to be anyone's exclusive plaything.

And surely the moral rights of artists and writers is just a little bit more important than the "hard work" and "creativity" of a DJ or a record collector.

Paul Mooney (...that's not my real name, by the way)

[Ted Massey]

Some people keep them covered up even when they been uncovered how sad it that

[Simsy]

I know where Richard is coming from but this still isn't justification. Music is intended for mass consumption, not to be anyone's exclusive plaything.

And surely the moral rights of artists and writers is just a little bit more important than the "hard work" and "creativity" of a DJ or a record collector.

Paul Mooney (...that's not my real name, by the way)

Thing is though Paul (if indeed that is your name). These artists are ostensibly losers and if it wasn't for musical misfit weirdo's like us, than they would be all but unknows.

Gratitude for our appreciation of their efforts being my point. Record sales and money ceased to be viable the minute failure kicked in.

[Mike]

Thing is though Paul (if indeed that is your name). These artists are ostensibly losers and if it wasn't for musical misfit weirdo's like us, than they would be all but unknows.

Gratitude for our appreciation of their efforts being my point. Record sales and money ceased to be viable the minute failure kicked in.

comes over bit condescending that imo Ian

Edited November 15, 2005 by mike-

[Guest]

I must say I have never understood the cover up malarky

I asked this on another thread, but I'll ask again here. Are the labels of the cover up records changed permanently? If so, wouldn't that detract from the price?

[Simsy]

comes over bit condescending that imo Ian

yeah, bit blunt I thought.

I must say I have never understood the cover up malarky

I asked this on another thread, but I'll ask again here. Are the labels of the cover up records changed permanently? If so, wouldn't that detract from the price?

No creative Sellotaping should be the norm.

[Guest Paul]

Thing is though Paul (if indeed that is your name). These artists are ostensibly losers and if it wasn't for musical misfit weirdo's like us, than they would be all but unknows.

Gratitude for our appreciation of their efforts being my point. Record sales and money ceased to be viable the minute failure kicked in.

I disagree, Ian. Pat Brady once covered up a track by Wilson Pickett who is hardly a loser. The record was easily available at the time but (oddly enough) hundreds of potential buyers didn't know the real identity so they couldn't buy copies.

And don't "losers" have moral rights too? ...or is Thatcher back in power again?

Paul Mooney

[Guest Soultown andy]

Cover ups are sold too if I am right. the buyer is sworn into secrecy as the seller usually as another copy.

is this true and does it happen?

Janine, did you discover these cover-ups or did you buy them as cover ups?

Shane

I bought 2 of Carl Willinghams brilliant cover ups last week and am going to buy a few more off him shortly,reason being they are great records that need playing out now that Carl has retired.I have no intention of breaking my promise not to uncover them,cover ups have always been part of the scene and i dont see why that should change now.

[Simsy]

I disagree, Ian. Pat Brady once covered up a track by Wilson Pickett who is hardly a loser. The record was easily available at the time but (oddly enough) hundreds of potential buyers didn't know the real identity so they couldn't buy copies.

And don't "losers" have moral rights too? ...or is Thatcher back in power again?

Paul Mooney

Point taken. Was a sweeping generalisation and a bit blunt. Apologies.

[Guest]

The record was easily available at the time but (oddly enough) hundreds of potential buyers didn't know the real identity so they couldn't buy copies.

So it's really an ego trip for the coverer-upper - like one-upmanship battles?

[Guest Paul]

Point taken. Was a sweeping generalisation and a bit blunt. Apologies.

Thanks for the apology, Ian, but you could have just sent me the "equivalent value" in cash to compensate for any emotional distress I may have suffered.

Paul Mooney

[Simsy]

Thanks for the apology, Ian, but you could have just sent me the "equivalent value" in cash to compensate for any emotional distress I may have suffered.

Paul Mooney

Sure you're not Paul Money?