So Who Was Soul Brother Number 1?

[Ian Parker]

My choice would be VAN Mc COY. Master Musician, Producer, Songwriter, Publisher, & a Legend who is sadly missed by many today.!!

i hear ya! choice number 2 for me. one of musics true masters! everything he touched turned to gold !

Sandi Sheldon, Brenda and the tabulations, Gene Chandler, David Ruffin, Billy Woods, his solo outings. an amazing songwriter, arranger and talent.

sadly missed indeed. i even stuck a poster up after his death, as a tribute.

Great choice

[Shinehead]

Some great names in the mix so far but Johhnie Taylor has not been mentioned, to me one of the true greats also one who spanned the decades from his Soul Stirrer days his recordings on Sar, Stax and Columbia Beverley Glen and his masterpieces on Malaco , the man was recording great music right up to his death and he would still be doing so.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Actually for me James Brown really was Soul Brother No 1. I think he created the term and his credentials are pretty flawless in terms of his impact and power when he was at his height. Plus an incredible career span as well.

He's never been my favourite artist but I love his records, his passion, his commitment, his work ethic and his no-compromise attitude which was pretty revolutionary at the time. I think he deserves it.

When the USA was imploding in the riots of the late 60's, the US governement called on James Brown for help and he did. Black communities throughout the US listened to Soul Brother No.1 because that's undoubtably what he was in the late 60's and early 70's.

No one else could have reached into the black community with the level of respect that James Brown commanded and for that reason I believe that he is the true owner of the title.

No contest.

Ian D

Edited November 3, 2011 by Ian Dewhirst

[Guest Paul]

Interesting thread.

We all have favourites (such as Bobby Womack, for example) but we can't discuss the development of soul music without mentioning those who were really innovative or at least very influential.

The most obvious examples are Little Willie John, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson, Little Richard, Otis Redding, James Brown, Marvin Gaye, David Ruffin and Levi Stubbs.

It also has to be said that Don Covay, Ben E King, Chuck Jackson, Curtis Mayfield, Tyrone Davis and Al Green had a huge influence on hundreds of artists. Those guys were often copied in voice and style.

I really appreciate them all but my biggest favourites are Redding, Stubbs and Green. And I have a soft spot for Covay because he was often so different to everyone else.

[Julie Moore]

Got to be the Reverend for me

[Citizen P]

Actually for me James Brown really was Soul Brother No 1. I think he created the term and his credentials are pretty flawless in terms of his impact and power when he was at his height. Plus an incredible career span as well.

He's never been my favourite artist but I love his records, his passion, his commitment, his work ethic and his no-compromise attitude which was pretty revolutionary at the time. I think he deserves it.

When the USA was imploding in the riots of the late 60's, the US governement called on James Brown for help and he did. Black communities throughout the US listened to Soul Brother No.1 because that's undoubtably what he was in the late 60's and early 70's.

No one else could have reached into the black community with the level of respect that James Brown commanded and for that reason I believe that he is the true owner of the title.

No contest.

Ian D

Recently just finished reading a book "The Hardest working Man" ( without checking) about his concert the day after Dr. Martin Luther King's Assassination.

Was never a big fan but Respect is Due.

Tony

[Guest Paul]

Recently just finished reading a book "The Hardest working Man" ( without checking) about his concert the day after Dr. Martin Luther King's Assassination.

Was never a big fan but Respect is Due.

Tony

Hello, I enjoyed that book too. It reminds us how much influence Brown really had.

[Guest]

Thanx all for responses and reading.

Well here's my take on it..................................

SOUL BROTHER #1 is LITTLE WILLIE JOHN

Have only got a couple of his choons however, here's what swayed me

James Brown's choice as his favourite singer

(Little)Stevie Wonder's mum quote"If you gonna call yourself "Little" you better be as good as Little Willie John

and finally, the best is nearly always last

Marvin Gaye quote "Little Willie John? The soul singer's soul singer"

And to celebrate their is a book out:-

LITTLE WILLIE JOHN "FEVER - The fast life, mysterious death & the birth of soul"

Thanx again for responses, all interesting in their individual way - Ash

[Sjclement]

Lets give a big hand to Tyrone Davis consistent and having a great treacly chocolate voice that suited Clive Davis's Chicago arrangements superbly.

[Shinehead]

Thanx all for responses and reading.

Well here's my take on it..................................

SOUL BROTHER #1 is LITTLE WILLIE JOHN

Have only got a couple of his choons however, here's what swayed me

James Brown's choice as his favourite singer

(Little)Stevie Wonder's mum quote"If you gonna call yourself "Little" you better be as good as Little Willie John

and finally, the best is nearly always last

Marvin Gaye quote "Little Willie John? The soul singer's soul singer"

And to celebrate their is a book out:-

LITTLE WILLIE JOHN "FEVER - The fast life, mysterious death & the birth of soul"

Thanx again for responses, all interesting in their individual way - Ash

Can see where you are coming from but the man never recorded a single after 1961 so he hardly made a impression in the soul market a forerunner maybe but Soul Brother number 1 hardly . As an aside he was the brother of Mable John and also served a sentence in prison for manslaughter. He died in 1968.

[Kev Cane]

James Brown was the self professed "Number 1 Soul Brother" and if you listen to his not so well known stuff you can see why, forget about "Sex Machine" and "Get up offa that thing" and the likes and dig a little deeper for the real stuff, the man is achingly soulful, Tomo from Middlesboro knocked a CD up for me a few months ago of his not so well known stuff (only a few I had heard) and it hasn,t been off the player since. I am not knocking the disco stuff, it was a milestone in Soul Music, but as I said, dig deeper and listen to "Soul Brother Number One"

Kev

[Chalky]

the man was recording great music right up to his death and he would still be doing so.

Just how long do they have to have recorded for to be considered? Surely it is about the catalogue.legacy and influence they have left behind or still have that counts towards an artists greatness not the length of his or her recording career ((although it does help).

The Beatles didn't last much more than a decade bout are still influencing artists to this day, Elvis hasn't recorded and has been dead since the 70's yet still has a massive influence on music.

It is the same of the artists we revere, the impression they have left on us as lovers of soul music that should be the sole factor, not the fact they haven't recorded for 20, 30 or 40 years? Most of the artists that can be and often are considered the greatest have done little or nothing since the 70's.

[Shinehead]

Just how long do they have to have recorded for to be considered? Surely it is about the catalogue.legacy and influence they have left behind or still have that counts towards an artists greatness not the length of his or her recording career ((although it does help).

The Beatles didn't last much more than a decade bout are still influencing artists to this day, Elvis hasn't recorded and has been dead since the 70's yet still has a massive influence on music.

It is the same of the artists we revere, the impression they have left on us as lovers of soul music that should be the sole factor, not the fact they haven't recorded for 20, 30 or 40 years? Most of the artists that can be and often are considered the greatest have done little or nothing since the 70's.

As in all opinions it's about opinions , we are talking about a music that it's peak was in the 60s and 70s , we all have our favourites, who was Soul Brother number 1 ? , who cares Soul music moves us to this day . Edited November 8, 2011 by shinehead

[Chalky]

As in all opinions it's about opinions , we are talking about a music that it's peak was in the 60s and 70s , we all have our favourites, who was Soul Brother number 1 ? , who cares Soul music moves us to this day .

So many wonderful artists, each and everyone different in their own way that make Soul music so rich and diverse and why we love it above anything else out there.

Like you say it is all about opinions and that is why so many suggestions.

As a single artist so many I could choose, Tommy Tate, Jackie Wislon, Marvin Gaye etc. James Brown never left the impression on me as others have done even though he has a great catalogue.

As a group it would be the Temptations I think, 60's and early 70's with the classic line-ups although they have much more to offer.

As a duo probably Eddie and Ernie.

[Shinehead]

Would a poll be appropriate for this topic , but we have to vote who we think influenced the beginning of Soul Music, not our personal favourite artists.

[Wicked]

I might be wrong but I don't think I've seen Jerry Butler mentioned on this thread. He had a long recording career, also got involved in politics in the late sixties. His book 'Only The Strong Survive' is well worth a read.

[Chalky]

Would a poll be appropriate for this topic , but we have to vote who we think influenced the beginning of Soul Music, not our personal favourite artists.

trouble is who do you include in the poll and who do you leave out? Come up with a list of names and I'll set it up

[Chalky]

Could expand the poll to include soul sista number 1 and group?

[Shinehead]

trouble is who do you include in the poll and who do you leave out? Come up with a list of names and I'll set it up

Include all the names listed on this topic up to today.

[Kc Jr]

Is Mr. Edwin Starr with us in the race, also Wilson Picket is worth mention imo ?!

When it comes to the Funk Brothers, Joe Hunter does it for me !

[Shinehead]

The names of artists who got more than one mention by different ss members is

JACKIE WILSON

MARVIN GAYE

JAMES BROWN

AL GREEN

LITTLE WILLIE JOHN

OTIS REDDING

LITTLE RICHARD

Take a poll from that list of talent

[Chalky]

The names of artists who got more than one mention by different ss members is

JACKIE WILSON

MARVIN GAYE

JAMES BROWN

AL GREEN

LITTLE WILLIE JOHN

OTIS REDDING

LITTLE RICHARD

Take a poll from that list of talent

I'll set one up as soon as I get chance, won't be today though, might be weekend.

[Shinehead]

I'll set one up as soon as I get chance, won't be today though, might be weekend.

No probs.

[Guest]

Would a poll be appropriate for this topic , but we have to vote who we think influenced the beginning of Soul Music, not our personal favourite artists.

E X A C T L Y - that was my point, maybe I didn't clarify, sorry

Little Willie John ??????????????

[Shinehead]

E X A C T L Y - that was my point, maybe I didn't clarify, sorry

Little Willie John ??????????????

Are the names suggested on the list for a poll ok ?

[Hooker1951]

Far too many to mention and too good to be forgotten

ML

[Mal C]

Ian Dewhirst answered this in 2011, James Brown, he da MAN!

The interesting question might be, aside from the Queen of Soul, whos' Soul Sister No1 ?

You don't have to answer that here, lets have a bun fight around who could take on JB.... not many!! lol

[Hooker1951]

14 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Ian Dewhirst answered this in 2011, James Brown, he da MAN!

The interesting question might be, aside from the Queen of Soul, whos' Soul Sister No1 ?

You don't have to answer that here, lets have a bun fight around who could take on JB.... not many!! lol

Hi Mal

Same with the Soul Sisters too many to mention and like the Soul brothers a hell of a lot who never got the recognition they deserved, I salute both the brothers and sisters they helped too make my life a lot happier, God knows what we would have done without them!
ML

[Martyn Pitt]

44 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said:

God knows what we would have done without them!
ML

Spot on ... I would never have met you, or the other multitude of friends from all around the country

[Roburt]

JACKIE WILSON has had a few nominations on this thread; hard to argue that he shouldn't be up top in the running ...

it's a great pity that although Jackie had enjoyed 3 big UK pop 45 hits by 1960 ....     “Reet Petite” being a much bigger pop hit in the UK than in the US. Here it made it onto the UK Top 10 over Christmas 57 (though “By The Light Of The Silvery Moon” had been the intended A side in both the US & UK).  His follow up single, “To Be Loved”, escaped in both the US & UK in February 68. It took off quickest in the UK and made the pop charts here in mid March. A British cover version of the song by Malcolm Vaughn however prevented Jackie's version from repeating the very high chart placing his first single had achieved. "To Be Loved" was on & off the UK pop charts three times between March & May 59 .. due to sales surging & falling coz of record shop stocks running out & the UK cover version sales. Jackie's 3rd UK hit in September 60 was "All My Love"  -- STRANGELY his two biggest US pop hits of those times; "Lonely Teardrops" & "Doggin Around / Night" never made the UK charts. Likewise, his #1 US R&B hit "You Better Know It", also failed to sell here   ---  he never came to the UK to perform till 1972. That was a major oversight by his manager / record company as it was a well known fact THAT ....

JACKIE was a much better singer live (& a very very dynamic performer with a huge stage presence) than his studio sessions ever illustrated. If he'd have done a UK theatre tour say in 1960 or 61 I'm sure his shows would have raised his profile here and would have resulted in more UK hits for him in the period up to 1969 (when "Higher & Higher" returned him to the UK charts).

BTW, you can read much more on JACKIE WILSON -- LIVE in my article in the current edition of SOUL UP NORTH . . . . . (BLATANT PLUG !!!).

Edited December 20, 2023 by Roburt

[Hooker1951]

21 minutes ago, Roburt said:

JACKIE WILSON has had a few nominations on this thread; hard to argue that he shouldn't be up top in the running ...

it's a great pity that although Jackie had enjoyed 3 big UK pop 45 hits by 1960 ....     “Reet Petite” being a much bigger pop hit in the UK than in the US. Here it made it onto the UK Top 10 over Christmas 57 (though “By The Light Of The Silvery Moon” had been the intended A side in both the US & UK).  His follow up single, “To Be Loved”, escaped in both the US & UK in February 68. It took off quickest in the UK and made the pop charts here in mid March. A British cover version of the song by Malcolm Vaughn however prevented Jackie's version from repeating the very high chart placing his first single had achieved. "To Be Loved" was on & off the UK pop charts three times between March & May 59 .. due to sales surging & falling coz of record shop stocks running out & the UK cover version sales. Jackie's 3rd UK hit in September 60 ("All My Love")  -- STRANGELY his two biggest US pop hits of those times; "Lonely Teardrops" & "Doggin Around / Night" never made the UK charts. Likewise, his #1 US R&B hit "You Better Know It", also failed to sell here   ---  he never came to the UK to perform till 1972. That was a major oversight by his manager / record company as it was a well known fact THAT ....

JACKIE was a much better singer live (& a very very dynamic performer with a huge stage presence) than his studio sessions ever illustrated. If he'd have done a UK theatre tour say in 1960 or 61 I'm sure his shows would have raised his profile here and would have resulted in more UK hits for him in the period up to 1969 (when "Higher & Higher" returned him to the UK charts).

BTW, you can read much more on JACKIE WILSON -- LIVE in my article in the current edition of SOUL UP NORTH . . . . . (BLATANT PLUG !!!).

Hi Roburt

Fantastic Artist and performer and Elvis Presley, s favourite singer along with Roy Hamilton, a bit of Trivia, in a scene in Girls Girls Girls movie where Elvis is singing (Return to Sender ) in a night club , Jackie is in the Audience.

ML