Would This Be Acceptable?

[Naughty Boy]

This would be ok.

topless would be better

[paultp]

I can't believe how off topic this thread has become whilst I've been out sailing all afternoon, if freebasing still existed this would be heading there!

My original post was actually raising the question of whether the scene is more about ownership of records rather than the tunes themselves.

[Chalky]

Cut the off topic rubbish and stick to the topic, don't mind a laugh but some take it too far. Any more and it will be over to Freebasing.

[Chalky]

Lets take it one stage further and you collectors, if a landlord or a club owner asked you to do a Soul Night but he said I've none of them decks we used to use years ago just cd and digital equipment (laptop etc), would you turn the night down? I'm not talking about an all-nighter etc, just some local club trying to get some extra custom through doors.

All this talk about can't play this nor play it on that etc is getting a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

[Scotters]

I can't believe how off topic this thread has become whilst I've been out sailing all afternoon, if freebasing still existed this would be heading there!

My original post was actually raising the question of whether the scene is more about ownership of records rather than the tunes themselves.

My view is that it's ALL about the records. The fact that you hold a small piece of history that could've passed through many different pairs of hands in at least two or more countries (at least in respect of US 45's).

Probably been covered elsewhere in another thread, but are digital files (paid for legit from say from i-tunes, rather than converted from records etc) actually "tradeable", or keep any value, like records?

My personal preference in a world of increasingly more "virtual" and less "tangible", is to keep on collecting and playing records until I lose my marbles, or worse. Whether they'll be worth anything to anyone or not at that point...I have no idea, but I hope so, for the benefit of my kids if nothing else.

Steve

[Chalky]

Probably been covered elsewhere in another thread, but are digital files (paid for legit from say from i-tunes, rather than converted from records etc) actually "tradeable", or keep any value, like records?

Steve

Some people believe it or not actually pay a lot of money for certain sound files.

[Scotters]

Some people believe it or not actually pay a lot of money for certain sound files.

Thanks Chalky...Interesting and I'd genuinely like to learn more on that. In terms of general downloads for the masses...Do these hold any value / can the files be sold on, like if you purchased the CD rather than just downloaded it? Just curious, even though I don't personally download much myself, other than for my kids now and then.

Anyway, sorry...maybe going off topic!

[Guest]

Some people believe it or not actually pay a lot of money for certain sound files.

Do they? Why!

[Hammersoul]

Why go to all the trouble of buying that bit of kit, there is an App that you can down load to you iphone or ipad that give you two turn tables, mixer, crossfading and a whole bunch more....

Even better Dave,just play the original records and bin mp3/down loads where they belong

[Chalky]

Do they? Why!

Dunno I've been offered £30 for one, turned them down as promised I wouldn't pass it on.

[Guest gordon russell]

the price of records.........it would be as cheap to fly the artists over then come on one by one to sing.....just a thought

[Guest Bearsy]

Lets take it one stage further and you collectors, if a landlord or a club owner asked you to do a Soul Night but he said I've none of them decks we used to use years ago just cd and digital equipment (laptop etc), would you turn the night down? I'm not talking about an all-nighter etc, just some local club trying to get some extra custom through doors.

All this talk about can't play this nor play it on that etc is getting a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

I have been asked to do a night in a pub but turned it down and not because of decks or anything i just wouldnt want to dj a pub soul night i couldnt think of a worse night stuck behind the decks being asked to play all sorts of non soul stuff by the regulars next stop would be mobile disco cos anyone imho would only do a night like that for the money

[Ian Dewhirst]

Lets take it one stage further and you collectors, if a landlord or a club owner asked you to do a Soul Night but he said I've none of them decks we used to use years ago just cd and digital equipment (laptop etc), would you turn the night down? I'm not talking about an all-nighter etc, just some local club trying to get some extra custom through doors.

All this talk about can't play this nor play it on that etc is getting a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

There's a whole world out there where the value is all about the tune, rather than the format the tune is housed upon. Most of my recent gigs haven't relied on OVO because, for the most part, the tunes I play for those particular gigs don't exist on vinyl yet. If it's a souly/disco/re-edits audience the last thing they want is a tune they've heard a zillion times before because it was the only format available. These days you can have up to 5 or 6 different versions of a tune that can suite different audiences for different reasons and those are the ones that get the buzz believe me.

So yeah, I'd take a gig like that in a shot.

Not for Northern or Rare Soul though.That audience is very argumentative and far too difficult to please......

Ian D

[Kris Holmes]

Good fun thread this!

I went to a "soul" do at the start of this year where the guys had decent turntables wired up to mixer and a Mac with some software (name of which escapes me) and screen showed both turntables, mixer, track listings etc etc....On the decks were what looked like records, but must've been digital discs of some sort, with digital stylus to pick up tracking so that they could use decks to mix and adjust pitch / stop & start tracks etc.

All very clever I suppose and I'm not being critical, but but I thought...what's the point?! If you're prepared to lug that lot about and pay a good few quid for the kit, surely just also bring a couple boxes of records or CD's and be done with, after all there was nothing rare / expensive / hard to find being played!

Steve

This is called Serato (a New Zealand invention), the music comes from mp3s on a laptop but can be controlled by 7" "records" using digital timecode. From a distance it looks like you are playing vinyl but actually you are just using the 45 lookalike timecode vinyl discs to cue up & control the mp3s. It's very popular with travelling DJs since your whole night can be played from the laptop, you can instantly download & play requests & not have to carry crates of records (genres which previously relied on 12" singles such as hip hop, dance & Top 40 DJs love it). Lots of venues have a Serato box installed now where you turn up with your laptop & 2 control records, plug in via USB & play your set. For soul DJs who don't own 45s it is a good alternative to "keep up appearances" I guess. Obviously not really for the rare soul scene but it has it's positives for other genre DJs.

[paultp]

My view is that it's ALL about the records. The fact that you hold a small piece of history that could've passed through many different pairs of hands in at least two or more countries (at least in respect of US 45's).

Probably been covered elsewhere in another thread, but are digital files (paid for legit from say from i-tunes, rather than converted from records etc) actually "tradeable", or keep any value, like records?

My personal preference in a world of increasingly more "virtual" and less "tangible", is to keep on collecting and playing records until I lose my marbles, or worse. Whether they'll be worth anything to anyone or not at that point...I have no idea, but I hope so, for the benefit of my kids if nothing else.

Steve

I think that's a valid point where collecting is concerned but not where a night out is concerned. I still collect, just very slowly these days but the skill of a DJ is to put a set together not just to buy records.

Would it be better to hear a really well put together set of interesting tunes, regardless of format, than just listen to somebody plonk record after record on that they had managed to purchase?

I like people's sets rather than records people have managed to buy. I still like records though.

[Guest]

How about just a live digital link up from the comfort of your house : enabling you to 1) play the original records from the comfort of your surroundings with 2) none of the hassle of actually travelling to the venue ! LOL

[Guest]

Seriously tho, the sound quality from the Ipod is light years behind something played from your standard technics record deck through a PA : It's not even a case of the old digital verus analog argument. The Ipod simply won't accept high resolution Wav files which is probably the best way to record something authentically : The Ipod forces file compression and in terms of audiofile sound quality it's audio output qualities are generally regarded as pretty poor : having heard it when I had to DJ with a guy using one the sound was dynamically very flat and tiring to hear. My vinyl sounded clear and 'live' in comparison. I personally find the fact that if somone plays an OG 45 it adds to the mystique and special feeling of the night. Also as a sidenote vinyl is an incredibly durable format and suprisingly the orginal flaws associated with vinyl (scratches , hiss clicks etc) are now generally part of the character we love in vinyl (there are limits tho lol )

[Guest Bearsy]

I think that's a valid point where collecting is concerned but not where a night out is concerned. I still collect, just very slowly these days but the skill of a DJ is to put a set together not just to buy records.

Would it be better to hear a really well put together set of interesting tunes, regardless of format, than just listen to somebody plonk record after record on that they had managed to purchase?

I like people's sets rather than records people have managed to buy. I still like records though.

what is an interesting tune though, an interesting tune can be a record that someone has bought and just plonked down on a turntable can a set be interesting if all the set was plonked down records cant a set be crap if played on ipod or cds all this format crap is crap, its all about the dj end of, some djs are clearly crap and some are sublime and make it look oh so easy experience, knowledge and personality with a nice edge of ego and some cracking tuneage for me makes a dj, format shouldnt ever come into it imho

[Guest MrC]

Seriously tho, the sound quality from the Ipod is light years behind something played from your standard technics record deck through a PA : It's not even a case of the old digital verus analog argument. The Ipod simply won't accept high resolution Wav files which is probably the best way to record something authentically : The Ipod forces file compression and in terms of audiofile sound quality it's audio output qualities are generally regarded as pretty poor : having heard it when I had to DJ with a guy using one the sound was dynamically very flat and tiring to hear. My vinyl sounded clear and 'live' in comparison. I personally find the fact that if somone plays an OG 45 it adds to the mystique and special feeling of the night. Also as a sidenote vinyl is an incredibly durable format and suprisingly the orginal flaws associated with vinyl (scratches , hiss clicks etc) are now generally part of the character we love in vinyl (there are limits tho lol )

But using a laptop as opposed to an ipod, you'd be able to record and play lossless file formats, there's plenty of "twin deck" software and USB mixer/controllers for the said software, it even lets you use the timecoded vinyl or cd disks as mentioned earlier in the thread, so the quality argument doesn't hold water in that instance - HOWEVER, I think the original question was would it be ok to use this kind of setup, as long as you own the records, so, you could record them (lossless), play them (lossless) and still have the odd crackle and pop that we've come to know and love from our vinyl. I still like the idea of a bikini clad woman holding up the actual record while you play the didgital version though!

:lol:

[Barry]

This is called Serato (a New Zealand invention), the music comes from mp3s on a laptop but can be controlled by 7" "records" using digital timecode. From a distance it looks like you are playing vinyl but actually you are just using the 45 lookalike timecode vinyl discs to cue up & control the mp3s. It's very popular with travelling DJs since your whole night can be played from the laptop, you can instantly download & play requests & not have to carry crates of records (genres which previously relied on 12" singles such as hip hop, dance & Top 40 DJs love it). Lots of venues have a Serato box installed now where you turn up with your laptop & 2 control records, plug in via USB & play your set. For soul DJs who don't own 45s it is a good alternative to "keep up appearances" I guess. Obviously not really for the rare soul scene but it has it's positives for other genre DJs.

Could be the TRAKTOR system, maybe.

[Guest MrC]

Could be the TRAKTOR system, maybe.

Most of the PC based twin deck software and hardware allows the use of timecoded discs now - Traktor being on of the most popular, Numark actually make their own software that plays mp3/vinyl/cd for use with their usb decks & mixers, pretty good too.

[Barry]

Most of the PC based twin deck software and hardware allows the use of timecoded discs now - Traktor being on of the most popular, Numark actually make their own software that plays mp3/vinyl/cd for use with their usb decks & mixers, pretty good too.

I've had the Traktor system for about 6 years - great little tool - first saw Kerri Chandler using it at our gaff.

[Chalky]

There's a whole world out there where the value is all about the tune, rather than the format the tune is housed upon. Most of my recent gigs haven't relied on OVO because, for the most part, the tunes I play for those particular gigs don't exist on vinyl yet. If it's a souly/disco/re-edits audience the last thing they want is a tune they've heard a zillion times before because it was the only format available. These days you can have up to 5 or 6 different versions of a tune that can suite different audiences for different reasons and those are the ones that get the buzz believe me.

So yeah, I'd take a gig like that in a shot.

Not for Northern or Rare Soul though.That audience is very argumentative and far too difficult to please......

Ian D

The silence is almost deafening from the collectors Ian.

If some landlord asked me to do something like I described I would also do it. Obviously I wouldn't do it at a serious Soul Night/all-nighter but in a local club or pub where it isn't aimed purely at the soul crowd I don't see anything wrong with this sort of set up being talked about or even cds.

I'd also agree with what others have said, it's not always about what you own it is how you put the set together as much as anything.

[Ian Dewhirst]

The silence is almost deafening from the collectors Ian.

If some landlord asked me to do something like I described I would also do it. Obviously I wouldn't do it at a serious Soul Night/all-nighter but in a local club or pub where it isn't aimed purely at the soul crowd I don't see anything wrong with this sort of set up being talked about or even cds.

I'd also agree with what others have said, it's not always about what you own it is how you put the set together as much as anything.

Collectors are often a different audience Chalky. I prefer a collectors session either at my or someone else's house where you can relax and actually listen to stuff at leisure without any contraints. Or a Sunday afternoon session in a garden when the sun's out. Or a radio show. For me personally, the collector's thing is just something I appreciate more with a smaller group of people. Mind you, I've had the best part of 40 years in these kind of gatherings and I get restless these days..........

So when I'm out and about I want to have a bit more of a general buzz and some decent social interaction. I'm not really in the mood for too much introspection when I'm out and I've had a few drinks. I just wanna have fun. So in that kind of mood, I really couldn't give a damn about what format something is on. Some of the best sets bar none that I've heard in the last 10 years have been right off a computer anyway. So I'm 100% not a format freak that's for sure.

But for Northern and Rare Soul the vinyl is obviously a key component for all the reasons we know about and I guess that's a large part of the appeal.

It's very difficult to explain to strangers about the compulsive nature of this scene. As someone else said earlier, you either get it or you don't......

Ian D

[Scotters]

The silence is almost deafening from the collectors Ian.

If some landlord asked me to do something like I described I would also do it. Obviously I wouldn't do it at a serious Soul Night/all-nighter but in a local club or pub where it isn't aimed purely at the soul crowd I don't see anything wrong with this sort of set up being talked about or even cds.

I'd also agree with what others have said, it's not always about what you own it is how you put the set together as much as anything.

I agree, for what my view is worth.

Not sure I qualify as a "collector" when compared to many on SoulSource, but thought I'd keep up this post by saying a local landlord I know did ask me last year if I fancied having a go at putting on a soul night at his soon to be refurbished venue.

With established 80's / 90's nights already going on at the venue from time to time (not all soul, but certainly a fair bit played at those "party" themed nights...AND generally from a laptop), I thought the idea of a one-off 60's / 70's soul night playing vinyl only might go down well, based on what the landlord had told me the room was going to look like (low ceiling & wall to wall new sprung wooden floor etc).

I'd never played any records or CD's etc outside the house until that point, but having then just just met some very respectable and established local DJ's and collectors at a few different soul nights here in Northants, thought "why not have a look & see who else might be interested".

The Landlord / venue had all the kit wired in to the venue including Pioneer CDJs and USB ports etc, but being the techno laggard I am + having only really been to soul nights where records are played, coupled with the DJ's I thought would be great for such a night having all their best sounds on vinyl as far as I knew...decided to go with vinyl format.

Was advertised as an "everyone welcome" kind of night and a good few thousand records (and CD's) were there on the night to cover all kinds of tastes. The three well respected local DJ's (who kindly offered their support for the night) had no real idea who'd turn up, as the night was advertised at local soul nights and generally elsewhere, including the venue....Actually ended up being a good few dozen N.Soul fans on the night and everyone who came enjoyed it, me included in terms having a go at an early spot.

Anyway, the points I wanted to make from all this rambling are:

- I'm not sure the particular night would have been so well received, had anything other than records been played;

- The DJ's whom I thought were ideal for such a night (and who were kind enough to DJ) wanted to play records;

- It wasn't until I had a first go at few early spots just before and during this night, that I now appreciate and respect just how much thought and effort (and stress!) goes into putting a night on....and most of all, putting a well considered and thought through spot of records together.

In summary: Hats off to established and respected DJ's of the world (soul DJ's and otherwise + budding new DJ's too, if it's for the right reason), in WHATEVER format you play your music to an audience!

People vote with their feet at the end of the day (out the door or on the floor), so give the people what they want depending on the venue / type of night / style of music etc.

ATB. Steve

[boba]

This is called Serato (a New Zealand invention), the music comes from mp3s on a laptop but can be controlled by 7" "records" using digital timecode. From a distance it looks like you are playing vinyl but actually you are just using the 45 lookalike timecode vinyl discs to cue up & control the mp3s. It's very popular with travelling DJs since your whole night can be played from the laptop, you can instantly download & play requests & not have to carry crates of records (genres which previously relied on 12" singles such as hip hop, dance & Top 40 DJs love it). Lots of venues have a Serato box installed now where you turn up with your laptop & 2 control records, plug in via USB & play your set. For soul DJs who don't own 45s it is a good alternative to "keep up appearances" I guess. Obviously not really for the rare soul scene but it has it's positives for other genre DJs.

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention serato, it's almost standard for other genres of DJing. Also, re: someone's post about sound quality, you could use lossless FLAC files or high bitrate mp3s from your laptop. They would sound better than beat up 45s probably.

[boba]

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention serato, it's almost standard for other genres of DJing. Also, re: someone's post about sound quality, you could use lossless FLAC files or high bitrate mp3s from your laptop. They would sound better than beat up 45s probably.

also, there are rare and collectible versions of the serato vinyl itself:

https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=serato&x=0&y=0

I guess a rare soul DJ could get rare control vinyl and use it to play mp3s

[Chalky]

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention serato, it's almost standard for other genres of DJing. Also, re: someone's post about sound quality, you could use lossless FLAC files or high bitrate mp3s from your laptop. They would sound better than beat up 45s probably.

I often plug laptop into system, especially when doing sound files, podcasts etc and the tracks sound just as good as the records, in some cases the quality is better.