Stephanie Mckay, Vocal To Double Barrel Dave Ansal Collins

[Geeselad]

Think it was the KH Pete.

But I was in the rare room so missed it.

You well sir?

It certainly was played at the kings hall back in july.

[Guest]

Massive hole in your argument there mate

SHE'S NOT A REGGAE SINGER

Have you had a listen?

Hardly Sister Nancy is it?!

McKay is more your Angie Stone/Terri Walker/Jill Scott type vocalist..and a respected one at that

Anyone who collaborates with Amp Fiddler is worth their salt..trust me

OK, so as usual, we get the semantic shots...I never said she was a reggae singer, I said it was a 'reggae vocalisation'....i.e a vocal dropped over a pre-existing track...I also pointed out that it was not the 'real deal' which is why I posted the MARCIA GRIFFITHS track as an example....Of course there is nothing JA Reggae stylistic-wise about McKAY'S vocal and we know why as you have just pointed out, jesus wept...

[Guest]

Beeks ,you can't educate these people, your right mckay is in same mould as Angie stone very soulful.

Ah, I see, now because we don't think a record is in any way representative of Northern Soul as a genre, we now need to be 'educated' by the visionaries...we are now 'these people'...My point is - as you have both ignored - if this record is fair game for Northern playlists, what is there to stop DJ'S playing thousands of reggae records, many better ones as I have stated and then we'll end up with a scooterist feel on the Soul scene, something totally different in my view, but if that's what floats your boat so be it...there is no need to be so patronising simply because somebody disagrees with you over a record...

[Guest]

hey cleaver dick STEPHANIE MCKAY is not reggae artist

No she is not....which is exactly why I posted the MARCIA GRIFFITHS track to show what a genuine JA Reggae-femme vocal sounds like....did you miss all that somehow? Maybe you should stop trying to be so 'cleaver'???....

[Guest]

Just think if on this soul scene back in '75 instead of Gary Lewis or Bobby Goldsboro the dj had put on Tommy McCook or Soul Brothers....

A lot of us came from that background.

ROD

Yes, me included ROD...But, no I disagree, the whole weird and wonderful story of Northern Soul is as it is and the pop aspects are an important part of it...Reggae Music is another musical entity in it's own right and if I want to hear it I go to my mate's sound system do's as I have been doing since I was 13 years old actually...This record itself is a gimmick - in my view - fair enough if it rocks others, it don't do much for me,...who knows what would have happened if DJ's had of gone down that road in '75 but if they had of done, it's a fair bet to say that some superb soul records might never have been discovered and played if the scene had took to that particular sound, so I don't see how you can surmise in such a fashion...TOMMY McCOOK, LEE PERRY, ALTON ELLIS and the SOUL BROS did not need to be played at Wigan Casino to become names which are internationally cherished by Reggae fans across the globe...Reggae had it's own worldwide route into people's hearts and minds, unlike TOBI LEGEND and SPYDER TURNER and countless other Soul artists who would have remained buried in the mists of time were it not for our scene, as you well know, so I am glad there was not a diversion into reggae in the mid 70s because who knows what we might have missed instead?........

[Pete S]

Yes, me included ROD...But, no I disagree, the whole weird and wonderful story of Northern Soul is as it is and the pop aspects are an important part of it...Reggae Music is another musical entity in it's own right and if I want to hear it I go to my mate's sound system do's as I have been doing since I was 13 years old actually...This record itself is a gimmick - in my view - fair enough if it rocks others, it don't do much for me,...who knows what would have happened if DJ's had of gone down that road in '75 but if they had of done, it's a fair bet to say that some superb soul records might never have been discovered and played if the scene had took to that particular sound, so I don't see how you can surmise in such a fashion...TOMMY McCOOK, LEE PERRY, ALTON ELLIS and the SOUL BROS did not need to be played at Wigan Casino to become names which are internationally cherished by Reggae fans across the globe...Reggae had it's own worldwide route into people's hearts and minds, unlike TOBI LEGEND and SPYDER TURNER and countless other Soul artists who would have remained buried in the mists of time were it not for our scene, as you well know, so I am glad there was not a diversion into reggae in the mid 70s because who knows what we might have missed instead?........

Rich you are correct in every one of your posts and still, after all this, nobody has explained how or why this came to be played as NORTHERN SOUL.

[Pete S]

Giant you're sending PM's to the wrong person, he didn't post any youtube clips up, I posted the one of skinheads dancing, not quite sure why thats taking the piss but thats how people dance to reggae.

[Iancsloft]

Ive heard better frisbee,s spinning thro the air before being catched in the jaws of my Staffy Ted

Its bobbins.

[Guest]

Giant you're sending PM's to the wrong person, he didn't post any youtube clips up, I posted the one of skinheads dancing, not quite sure why thats taking the piss but thats how people dance to reggae.

personally I thought the comments about 'you can't educate these people' etc were more consistent with the idea of taking the piss...or insulting, but hey, we've got alligator skin... .

[Modernsoulsucks]

Rich,

Yes but no but yes.

Firstly IMO it is gimmicky but no more than [and I may be talking rubbish here as my attention to more modern recordings is minimal] say that female vocal record that used "Backstabbers" that was popular some years ago. Pleasant but how "Backstabbers" which IMO is not a Northern 45 suddenly gets played, cos it's had a re-working, as a suitable Northern record is as hard to fathom as this record. I put it down to the familiar factor.

Playing reggae and soul in the same club nowadays is unusual and pretty unheard of but I have seen the odd reggae room advertised now that we have this umbrella type approach. And of course you mention mod do's where it may even be mixed.

But I would say reggae was important to the scene because that's where a lot of the clientelle came from in the early days. Not to the musical progression because reggae was dropped early on but back in '69 around Stockport there were discos and youth clubs playing to what was largely a skinhead scene where you could hear the non-chart Motown, Atlantic and Stax stuff, what became Northern such as Mitch Ryder, Tams, Willie Tee, Reflections, Fascinations mixed in with Ethiopians, Pat Kelly etc. It didn't come across as jarring in any way. Just dance music.

So there is a precedent there but because of the way the scene developed it seems odd I guess to people who weren't there. I think it's perfectly legitimate to reflect that today if anyone wanted to put something on like that because just as an oldies do might be a snapshot of Wigan in '76, a do as I describe would be a snapshot of '69, and both IMO are all part of the story.

ROD

[Guest lifeandsoul]

just for the sake of showing off really just put a pic of stephanie and me up -

also roberta flack who was there at the same night

https://www.joespub.com/component/option,com_shows/task,view/Itemid,40/id,2908

First saw Stephanie in Bristol where she was singing back up to Amp Fiddler at a venue called Fiddlers - amp couldn't get it out of his head so after every other song or so he would say - this is Amp Fiddler at Fiddlers!! As already mentioned Stephanie has strong links with Bristol having worked with the Portishead guys.

Quite what relevance any of this has to the thread I don't know, but hey!

[Geeselad]

Rich,

Yes but no but yes.

Firstly IMO it is gimmicky but no more than [and I may be talking rubbish here as my attention to more modern recordings is minimal] say that female vocal record that used "Backstabbers" that was popular some years ago. Pleasant but how "Backstabbers" which IMO is not a Northern 45 suddenly gets played, cos it's had a re-working, as a suitable Northern record is as hard to fathom as this record. I put it down to the familiar factor.

Playing reggae and soul in the same club nowadays is unusual and pretty unheard of but I have seen the odd reggae room advertised now that we have this umbrella type approach. And of course you mention mod do's where it may even be mixed.

But I would say reggae was important to the scene because that's where a lot of the clientelle came from in the early days. Not to the musical progression because reggae was dropped early on but back in '69 around Stockport there were discos and youth clubs playing to what was largely a skinhead scene where you could hear the non-chart Motown, Atlantic and Stax stuff, what became Northern such as Mitch Ryder, Tams, Willie Tee, Reflections, Fascinations mixed in with Ethiopians, Pat Kelly etc. It didn't come across as jarring in any way. Just dance music.

So there is a precedent there but because of the way the scene developed it seems odd I guess to people who weren't there. I think it's perfectly legitimate to reflect that today if anyone wanted to put something on like that because just as an oldies do might be a snapshot of Wigan in '76, a do as I describe would be a snapshot of '69, and both IMO are all part of the story.

ROD

you dont dance then? sorry to be so flip but to me, and many more, thats what its ultimatly about, and reggae just doent suit the current mode of Northern dance. I was talking to a couple of old torch boys about Reggae and they said that no self respecting mod in 1970/ 71 would be seen dead listening to it or admit liking it. Thug music for footy hoodlems was how it was considered to many in the Stoke. Probably the same as admitting you like grime today, it had too many class conitations. Nothing against it personally but as so many have stated, it should have no place on the northern scene today, especially when so much fantastic, authentic, fresh sounds are derided by the oldies community.

Edited October 14, 2011 by geeselad

[Guest theoriginator56]

i have just purchased the promo 45 it cost me fair bit as its very hard to find the 45 realesed date 2003.

i believe its been played on the northern scene from time to time.

think one went for 145 pounds.

[Pete S]

think one went for 145 pounds.

SO what do you make of it being played at NS venues Kim? Seeing as you're into both, like me.

[Sutty]

If you're looking for new vocals over old riddims you're a lot better off buying some of the great Peckings 45's by Bitty McLean, Lady Lex, Peter Hunningale, Courtney John et all. They are at least rocksteady singers and some of their 45's are miles better than Stephanie McKay in production, ideas, talent and inspiration. SM isn't a bad record, it's just vastly inferior to others out there IMO.

cheers Sutty

[Pete S]

Best of all of those Peckings tracks was the first - Bitty McLean doing Walk Away From Love over the "Rock Steady" rhythm - as good as anything I've ever heard

[Shinehead]

Can't see how or why a reggae record should be played at a northern night, i love both soul and reggae but to play reggae at a northern night is beyond my comprehension even if its only a one off.

[Cunnie]

Totally agree with Sutty & Pete on this especially r/e Bitty McLean & his version of Walk Away From Love.

As for the reason it's getting Northern spins, simple really.

It's fairly rare especially on 7" vinyl & Northern record dealer & DJ Sean Chapman has got a few copy's

Gimme Dave & Ansil Collins any day of the week & surprised no one has mentioned the newly released Trojan versions of the original that have just been unearthed.

[Guest nubes]

Just thought it was logical that he would have been playing it at a Northern do as he's been reported playing it at Kings Hall I think it was?

Yes it was Played at KH...twas the last record in Sean's set.....first heard it played ...at the Wickesteed park soul night out...fooking luvved it form first play......... ....xxxx

[Pete S]

Totally agree with Sutty & Pete on this especially r/e Bitty McLean & his version of Walk Away From Love.

As for the reason it's getting Northern spins, simple really.

It's fairly rare especially on 7" vinyl & Northern record dealer & DJ Sean Chapman has got a few copy's

Gimme Dave & Ansil Collins any day of the week & surprised no one has mentioned the newly released Trojan versions of the original that have just been unearthed.

Cos they're bloody awful, no wonder they were never released - I bought the Dandy one, Jeez..

[Jez Jones]

you dont dance then? sorry to be so flip but to me, and many more, thats what its ultimatly about, and reggae just doent suit the current mode of Northern dance. I was talking to a couple of old torch boys about Reggae and they said that no self respecting mod in 1970/ 71 would be seen dead listening to it or admit liking it. Thug music for footy hoodlems was how it was considered to many in the Stoke. Probably the same as admitting you like grime today, it had too many class conitations. Nothing against it personally but as so many have stated, it should have no place on the northern scene today, especially when so much fantastic, authentic, fresh sounds are derided by the oldies community.

...mmm its about right that marra--although as Rod says it did find its way played at many a youth club 69ish for a period alongside aforementioned club/wheel mainstays. The more 'selective to the ear' BLUE BEAT stuff didn't get much 'airtime'. Trojan Chartbusters has a lot to answer for!!!!!! lol---it did tend to be the more commercial stuff--although skins locally did try to dig deeper--wiv Ska stuff--if memory serves

[Modernsoulsucks]

Geese,

Im not saying Lifeline should be featuring reggae. Im saying it had a place in the very early days and despite your reference to mods in early 70's disliking it it was also part of the mod scene, or so I believe cos I wasn't a mod back in the 60's [other than occasional fashion item and hearing first soul music in local club attached to a pub around '67]. By mid '68 I'd say the mods were disappearing even in the North and morphing into "soul boys" [or whatever you want to call them]. They were pretty much indistinguishable from those like me who were skinheads when we went out. Mohair suits and crombies not boots and braces. There was no divide but obviously there was personal musical taste so I wouldn't base my whole view on the word of a couple of guys who went to the Torch. So did I.

By that time no I didn't expect to hear reggae and would have thought it was odd. All the crew I hung about with did not get into NS like I did so yes the scenes were different but that's not to say there wasn't a big overlap.

And yes I can dance adequately to both 60's soul and reggae. I have a wide repertoire. I didn't realise there was just the one set of dance steps. Styles have changed slightly I suppose from early days but then there were guys at the Torch doing sideways shuffle to one tune and strutting about with hands on hips to others [someone will know what Im talking about there I hope]depending on feel of the record.

Finally here's a record you played according to playlists

Nowt wrong with it under the wide definition of playing good music but not Northern. Similarly this is good music too but not Northern.

Doesn't mean it can't be accomodated within that definition in the right environment.

ROD

[Jez Jones]

Geese,

Im not saying Lifeline should be featuring reggae. Im saying it had a place in the very early days and despite your reference to mods in early 70's disliking it it was also part of the mod scene, or so I believe cos I wasn't a mod back in the 60's [other than occasional fashion item and hearing first soul music in local club attached to a pub around '67]. By mid '68 I'd say the mods were disappearing even in the North and morphing into "soul boys" [or whatever you want to call them]. They were pretty much indistinguishable from those like me who were skinheads when we went out. Mohair suits and crombies not boots and braces. There was no divide but obviously there was personal musical taste so I wouldn't base my whole view on the word of a couple of guys who went to the Torch. So did I.

By that time no I didn't expect to hear reggae and would have thought it was odd. All the crew I hung about with did not get into NS like I did so yes the scenes were different but that's not to say there wasn't a big overlap.

And yes I can dance adequately to both 60's soul and reggae. I have a wide repertoire. I didn't realise there was just the one set of dance steps. Styles have changed slightly I suppose from early days but then there were guys at the Torch doing sideways shuffle to one tune and strutting about with hands on hips to others [someone will know what Im talking about there I hope]depending on feel of the record.

Finally here's a record you played according to playlists

Nowt wrong with it under the wide definition of playing good music but not Northern. Similarly this is good music too but not Northern.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E5_7GVn-Bs

Doesn't mean it can't be accomodated within that definition in the right environment.

ROD

...mmm Yes I do --me and me mate Sneaksy knew a lad from the Torch who did that a lot--with the occasional kick forward---funnily enough his name was Rodney lol hehehehehe

soz off topic

..'reggae' dancing was called the 'ball crusher' around our way--with a propensity to generally stick to one spot and what looked like wringing one's genatalia like a shammy leather lol

There is a link to the earlier scene with reggae---Jackie Edwards--but that was more like Jamaican Soul. Certainly Dave and Ansell Collins wouldn't have gone down well---fine record though it is. Harry J and the all stars--saw some action at Torch on a Fridays pre nighters.....cant remember what but sure some reggae got some wheel plays apart from Prince Buster etc.....Max Romeo anyone???

[Pete S]

Geese,

Im not saying Lifeline should be featuring reggae. Im saying it had a place in the very early days and despite your reference to mods in early 70's disliking it it was also part of the mod scene, or so I believe cos I wasn't a mod back in the 60's [other than occasional fashion item and hearing first soul music in local club attached to a pub around '67]. By mid '68 I'd say the mods were disappearing even in the North and morphing into "soul boys" [or whatever you want to call them]. They were pretty much indistinguishable from those like me who were skinheads when we went out. Mohair suits and crombies not boots and braces. There was no divide but obviously there was personal musical taste so I wouldn't base my whole view on the word of a couple of guys who went to the Torch. So did I.

By that time no I didn't expect to hear reggae and would have thought it was odd. All the crew I hung about with did not get into NS like I did so yes the scenes were different but that's not to say there wasn't a big overlap.

And yes I can dance adequately to both 60's soul and reggae. I have a wide repertoire. I didn't realise there was just the one set of dance steps. Styles have changed slightly I suppose from early days but then there were guys at the Torch doing sideways shuffle to one tune and strutting about with hands on hips to others [someone will know what Im talking about there I hope]depending on feel of the record.

Finally here's a record you played according to playlists

Nowt wrong with it under the wide definition of playing good music but not Northern. Similarly this is good music too but not Northern.

Doesn't mean it can't be accomodated within that definition in the right environment.

ROD

Yeah and the right environment is it's own separate room... (That Alva Lewis record always makes me smile, a total copy of Bob Andy's I got to go back home except he changes it to Return Home...used to have this on Caltone, what a track)

[Pete S]

Rod, they used to play Tiger Feet by Mud at our youth club along with the Motown and Reggae, does that justify it being played out now by some enterprising DJ looking for something a bit different?

[Modernsoulsucks]

I've heard the equivalent to my ears played by enterprising [clueless] dj's.

You do know Im not saying drop Techniques into a regular Northern spot.

What I am saying is in this time of all under one roof approach with funky,jazzy,latiny tracks with a fairly tenuous connection to traditional Northern feel, why is the reggae side ignored.

I've got it on Caltone but I'll check out the Bob Andy.

ROD

[Guest]

Rich,

Yes but no but yes.

Firstly IMO it is gimmicky but no more than [and I may be talking rubbish here as my attention to more modern recordings is minimal] say that female vocal record that used "Backstabbers" that was popular some years ago. Pleasant but how "Backstabbers" which IMO is not a Northern 45 suddenly gets played, cos it's had a re-working, as a suitable Northern record is as hard to fathom as this record. I put it down to the familiar factor.

Playing reggae and soul in the same club nowadays is unusual and pretty unheard of but I have seen the odd reggae room advertised now that we have this umbrella type approach. And of course you mention mod do's where it may even be mixed.

But I would say reggae was important to the scene because that's where a lot of the clientelle came from in the early days. Not to the musical progression because reggae was dropped early on but back in '69 around Stockport there were discos and youth clubs playing to what was largely a skinhead scene where you could hear the non-chart Motown, Atlantic and Stax stuff, what became Northern such as Mitch Ryder, Tams, Willie Tee, Reflections, Fascinations mixed in with Ethiopians, Pat Kelly etc. It didn't come across as jarring in any way. Just dance music.

So there is a precedent there but because of the way the scene developed it seems odd I guess to people who weren't there. I think it's perfectly legitimate to reflect that today if anyone wanted to put something on like that because just as an oldies do might be a snapshot of Wigan in '76, a do as I describe would be a snapshot of '69, and both IMO are all part of the story.

ROD

It was the same everywhere ROD...In Southampton all the main Youth Clubs played a mixture of Soul and Reggae/ska as did the Saturday morning Top Rank Disco sessions in 1970 and the Mecca Royal Pier afternoon sessions...but you know as well as I do, the history of our scene and the greater emphasis on Soul imports following the start of journeys to the states etc...You also know how and why a certain sound became identified with the phrase 'Northern Soul' and being honest frrom 71 onwards the vast majority of the top Soul venues stopped playing reggae which then found it's audience elsewhere as early Tojan, Rocksteady and Ska slowly evolved into Roots Rock Reggae which left most skinheads (and a lot of white people to be honest) firmly behind....And this is not an aspect which is ignored, there are countless Scooterist events, weekenders etc, which combine playlists of 60s Soul with Reggae, Rocksteady and Ska, I have mates who attend them regularly and in Southampton there are regular 'Youth Club Revival Nights' which are popular and feature playlists just like this...the question is whether records like that start crossing over onto what we know as the Northern/Rare Soul - call it what you wish - scene, because if they do, it will only be in replication of already existing scenes and nothing original...further, where does it stop?, We bring in a completely different musical genre and then somebody starts playing 60s Jazz and somebody says 'that's alright, because people listened to that along with Soul at the first London All-Nighters' and then we'll end up with a 'Gaz's Rocking Blues' style playlist or the type of lists which featured in certain hip London clubs in the 80s...Why not reggae? Why not a bit of Jazz? Why not some Rocking Blues? Why not hard funk? Why not anything as long as it gets people dancing?...I might be wrong, but there seems like some definite concerted effort for some type of new 'hipness' purveying this argument and the scene in certain 'areas' (i dont mean geographical)...Strange for me and PETE to be in such consistent agreement constantly but I think he has hit the nail on the head with his comments about DJ'S...This is about DJ'S trying to look and sound clever and ultimately they are doing nothing new, let them impress us with their new Soul discoveries...or maybe that's an outdated idea now...

Edited October 14, 2011 by rich chorley

[Guest]

https://youtu.be/BGbJ5ZyFkKI

Thing is, as PETE has pointed out, it's not that we don't like Reggae, I love it, especially the roots stuff so if SM can be played why can't stuff like this? I mean Modern Soul was not being played in '69 was it? So why can't those of us who like our reggae a little deeper have some roots from the mid 70s as well?...Maybe you are getting my point ROD, if we carry on conceptually with this 'umbrella' thing we are going to end up with a an all-in Dance party...What that would have to do with 'Northern Soul' as such is beyond me....

[Modernsoulsucks]

Rich,

I get all that. Hopefully later posts may explain a bit more where Im coming from.

What Im saying is that under this wider approach which seems to be called the rare soul scene what difference is there between the Fabulous Counts and Alva Lewis and Betty O'Brien and RL Burnside. Seems like we already have an eclectic mix that is slightly reminiscent of those 80's clubs where rockabilly meets soul meets 50's R&B that we had up here in Manchester too.

Jez,

Glad you remember those steps. "Hit and Run", "Im standing" "Love you baby" Herb Johnson all fitted that style and yes I did.

ROD

[Guest]

Rich,

I get all that.

What Im saying is that under this wider approach which seems to be called the rare soul scene what difference is there between the Fabulous Counts and Alva Lewis and Betty O'Brien and RL Burnside. Seems like we already have an eclectic mix that is slightly reminiscent of those 80's clubs where rockabilly meets soul meets 50's R&B that we had up here in Manchester too.

Jez,

Glad you remember those steps. "Hit and Run", "Im standing" "Love you baby" Herb Johnson all fitted that style and yes I did.

ROD

It's funny....in the early 80s, that scene you are referring to and it was strong down here especially on the south coast, was the main reason why a bunch of us started doing pure Northern Soul nights at the West Indian Club in Southampton - because we went to those clubs and wore the fashions but got fed up hearing a few Northern tracks tucked awy inside the esoteric mix of Soul, funk, jazz, reggae, blues and rockabilly- then lo and behold the 100 Club rose and we had a point of salvation again...before that we even got stick for our clothes on the Northern scene - which has been dealt with in a previous thread and which some people did remember - what seems to be happening now is a proposal or attempt to go down the routes originally pioneered by those 80s clubs but at the forefront of the Northern scene...and it's almost as if people are saying, you either embrace this 'umbrella' or you are a stale oldies freak...I don't buy that...when I go to a Soul event I want to hear Soul records and I don't want somebody telling me I am 'uneducatable' just because I will not accept gimmicky versions on old reggae classics in a Soul environment...I reckon there is a lot of people who feel like that....

[Pete S]

Ah Rich, I knew it couldn't last, I detest roots reggae, and although you may think I'm talking in cliches, I don't like much reggae after 1970 and the reason is very simple: the sound changed. Just like it did with soul music. I love Jamaican R&B, Ska, Rocksteady and early Reggae. It ends for me in late 69 early 70. And of course by 1973, with roots and consciousness taking over, it said nothing to me at all, in fact the only reggae I really liked then was DJ music and a lot of that was using revived tunes to toast over.

I always thought it would be great to do a second room which was ska and rocksteady, and they even let me do it at one venue, but after two attempts they turned it into an r&b room (without telling me) so that was the end of that. A year later, maybe two, I believe they did a reggae room at Prestatyn or somewhere like that, since then I know a lot of soulies have got into it, if I'm a little bit responsible for that via my podcasts and whatever, then great, but I still don't want to hear it in a northern room - plus of course, there are several superb 60's reggae nights on most weekends.

[Guest]

Ah Rich, I knew it couldn't last, I detest roots reggae, and although you may think I'm talking in cliches, I don't like much reggae after 1970 and the reason is very simple: the sound changed. Just like it did with soul music. I love Jamaican R&B, Ska, Rocksteady and early Reggae. It ends for me in late 69 early 70. And of course by 1973, with roots and consciousness taking over, it said nothing to me at all, in fact the only reggae I really liked then was DJ music and a lot of that was using revived tunes to toast over.

I always thought it would be great to do a second room which was ska and rocksteady, and they even let me do it at one venue, but after two attempts they turned it into an r&b room (without telling me) so that was the end of that. A year later, maybe two, I believe they did a reggae room at Prestatyn or somewhere like that, since then I know a lot of soulies have got into it, if I'm a little bit responsible for that via my podcasts and whatever, then great, but I still don't want to hear it in a northern room - plus of course, there are several superb 60's reggae nights on most weekends.

Yeah I know you're not into the roots stuff but it's the principal I am talking about...an all-inclusive playlist will just end up being like those 80S clubs I am talking about where a few Northern records got thrown in amongst an estoteric mix of everything else...like I said earlier, for me, If I want to hear Reggae I go to a system bash where it's 100 per cent...A Northern Soul room should not be playing reggae - in my view and I think that's about it from me on the subject...

[Guest ritchie]

It's funny....in the early 80s, that scene you are referring to and it was strong down here especially on the south coast, was the main reason why a bunch of us started doing pure Northern Soul nights at the West Indian Club in Southampton - because we went to those clubs and wore the fashions but got fed up hearing a few Northern tracks tucked awy inside the esoteric mix of Soul, funk, jazz, reggae, blues and rockabilly- then lo and behold the 100 Club rose and we had a point of salvation again...before that we even got stick for our clothes on the Northern scene - which has been dealt with in a previous thread and which some people did remember - what seems to be happening now is a proposal or attempt to go down the routes originally pioneered by those 80s clubs but at the forefront of the Northern scene...and it's almost as if people are saying, you either embrace this 'umbrella' or you are a stale oldies freak...I don't buy that...when I go to a Soul event I want to hear Soul records and I don't want somebody telling me I am 'uneducatable' just because I will not accept gimmicky versions on old reggae classics in a Soul environment...I reckon there is a lot of people who feel like that....

At talk of the south in Luton last year (the after snow one) This all things to all people format was in evidence resulting in 1/2 hour slots of ska/northern/boogaloo/ One by one the different tribes took to the dance floor..most leaving as their particular chosen genre finished.... what a disaster (imho)

The lad who was playing the ska slots was very vocal in his opinions re the 'northern' crowd being narrow minded and un teachable..

As we are no longer allowed to swear on SS I will choose my words carefully B*****K's I didn't attend TOTS to be educated I went

for what had always been an excellent soul do with ska in another room ..

To me the playing of ska at nighters and soul nights is wrong and stuff like the above S.Mckay D&A Collins mash up is like

Hi Ho silver lining at a wedding. some people will dance to owt..... : )

I loved the original down the youth club or at the fair...but not at a SOUL do...

I still play my tighten up and club reggae Lp's 14/6... and will all ways have a fondness for ska ,rock steady & boss reggae..

Dont want an Umbrella just good soul music in all it's forms ....

Edited October 14, 2011 by ritchie

[Guest]

Like 'Hi ho silver lining' at a wedding - quality mate and I have to admit, I agree!....

[TOAD]

ive been booked by 3 promoters to play reggae in the side rooms,prestatyn dublin,radcliffe and middleton. And it went down ok. But please not in a main room. Do check out Peckings records a lot of great tunes on that label a pity refosoul aint working yet.

[Guest Beeks]

FFS

Has anyone slagging off Stephanie McKay heard anything else by her?

Obviously not

She's not a reggae singer

Take Me Over is the only record she's cut with anything resembling reggae

Angie Stone had a big hit with the backstabbers sample 'I wish I Didn't Miss You'

Modern artists sampling old records..is it that difficult to understand?

She's not trying to be reggae..or anything other than who she is

Yet here we are 2 pages in talking bollox about her lack of patois..bogling..and curried goat being served in the Kings Hall

Get a grip

[Guest ritchie]

FFS

Has anyone slagging off Stephanie McKay heard anything else by her?

Obviously not

She's not a reggae singer

Take Me Over is the only record she's cut with anything resembling reggae

Angie Stone had a big hit with the backstabbers sample 'I wish I Didn't Miss You'

Modern artists sampling old records..is it that difficult to understand?

She's not trying to be reggae..or anything other than who she is

Yet here we are 2 pages in talking bollox about her lack of patois..bogling..and curried goat being served in the Kings Hall

Get a grip

Totally different soul singer / soul song... re Angie Stone

And yes i have listened to Stephanie's other stuff a defo talent ,,,BUT this is about the double barrel backing track for me ... not who's doing the vocal.

I adore Joya Landis moonlight lover but don't want to hear it at a nighter..

Edited October 14, 2011 by ritchie

[Guest]

FFS

Has anyone slagging off Stephanie McKay heard anything else by her?

Obviously not

She's not a reggae singer

Take Me Over is the only record she's cut with anything resembling reggae

Angie Stone had a big hit with the backstabbers sample 'I wish I Didn't Miss You'

Modern artists sampling old records..is it that difficult to understand?

She's not trying to be reggae..or anything other than who she is

Yet here we are 2 pages in talking bollox about her lack of patois..bogling..and curried goat being served in the Kings Hall

Get a grip

Oh well, thought it was over but it's you who needs to get a grip...

Your spouting complete and utter bollocks...Nobody is slagging her individually, so stop distorting things, that is just childish and ludicrous...whilst you may like to see yourself as a musical visionary, we all realise she is not a reggae singer, please read that back...

We're not talking about major league Soul Artists like ANGIE STONE and as you state 'Big hits'....for fooks sake, we are just talking about reggae records being played in main Northern Soul rooms...That's all, not particular artists...just the principal as eloquently outlined by RITCHIE in his last post...

As for this record, it does not do much for me, I could post up hundreds of genuine reggae records that cut it to a greater degree, but that is just personal taste...you are free to wax lyrical about it all you wish (I think it sounds like a mish mash of two records, something I have never liked)...But do me a favour, your comments about patois and goat curry are not clever - they are completely uneccessary and unpleasant...

You are not talking to a bunch of ignorant morons, with no knowledge of Soul Music....so try reading all this back calmly and stop thinking you are 'educating' people because you are not...

[Modernsoulsucks]

Actually Toad has answered some of my points. He has done spots under umbrella of different music under one roof so it isn't confined to mod events only.

Ritchie,

Im definitely not advocating playing it all in one room......usually.

The phenomena of the dance floor emptying and filling up with a new set of dancers is not that rare anyway in some ATB nights I attended in the NW.

It is interesting that you mention ska/Northern/boogaloo because at one time it was quite possible to hear "Train to Skaville" followed by "Just a little misunderstanding" and then "El Watusi" played by the same dj in the same room all of which would go down with the crowd. It was, has been pointed out, a brief period where this happened and it may also have been that I just happened to be there when that dj with that musical approach played but it seemed the norm prior to discovering there was an embryonic Northern scene running parallel in late 60's.

If you did mix the two now it would only be possible IMO from either a nostalgia angle in that you'd have to be very careful what you played to re-create that moment in time. For instance dropping "Tainted Love" or Arthur Willis into the mix would completely undermine it. It would be a very occasional oldies do. Or it could be off in a side room where say Toad instead of playing solely reggae could have carte blanche to play his fave 45s. Obviously Abba would be out, fave or not.

ROD

[Guest theoriginator56]

SO what do you make of it being played at NS venues Kim? Seeing as you're into both, like me.

NO way taint northern at all .u cant stomp u cant shuffle u cant float u cant 2 step 2 it. its wat i know as REGGA. ms makey was very very brave to ride this ridem. ilove the record. been playin at regga dances since its realese . ill say again its REGGA REGGA REGGA .people.

[Guest Beeks]

Oh well, thought it was over but it's you who needs to get a grip...

Your spouting complete and utter bollocks...Nobody is slagging her individually, so stop distorting things, that is just childish and ludicrous...whilst you may like to see yourself as a musical visionary, we all realise she is not a reggae singer, please read that back...

We're not talking about major league Soul Artists like ANGIE STONE and as you state 'Big hits'....for fooks sake, we are just talking about reggae records being played in main Northern Soul rooms...That's all, not particular artists...just the principal as eloquently outlined by RITCHIE in his last post...

As for this record, it does not do much for me, I could post up hundreds of genuine reggae records that cut it to a greater degree, but that is just personal taste...you are free to wax lyrical about it all you wish (I think it sounds like a mish mash of two records, something I have never liked)...But do me a favour, your comments about patois and goat curry are not clever - they are completely uneccessary and unpleasant...

You are not talking to a bunch of ignorant morons, with no knowledge of Soul Music....so try reading all this back calmly and stop thinking you are 'educating' people because you are not...

Well that's me told..thanks dad

[Guest giant]

Oh well, thought it was over but it's you who needs to get a grip...

Your spouting complete and utter bollocks...Nobody is slagging her individually, so stop distorting things, that is just childish and ludicrous...whilst you may like to see yourself as a musical visionary, we all realise she is not a reggae singer, please read that back...

We're not talking about major league Soul Artists like ANGIE STONE and as you state 'Big hits'....for fooks sake, we are just talking about reggae records being played in main Northern Soul rooms...That's all, not particular artists...just the principal as eloquently outlined by RITCHIE in his last post...

As for this record, it does not do much for me, I could post up hundreds of genuine reggae records that cut it to a greater degree, but that is just personal taste...you are free to wax lyrical about it all you wish (I think it sounds like a mish mash of two records, something I have never liked)...But do me a favour, your comments about patois and goat curry are not clever - they are completely uneccessary and unpleasant...

You are not talking to a bunch of ignorant morons, with no knowledge of Soul Music....so try reading all this back calmly and stop thinking you are 'educating' people because you are not...

no one is trying to educate you, it seems you got you master degree in every subject

[Guest giant]

just for the sake of showing off really just put a pic of stephanie and me up -

also roberta flack who was there at the same night

https://www.joespub.c...emid,40/id,2908

First saw Stephanie in Bristol where she was singing back up to Amp Fiddler at a venue called Fiddlers - amp couldn't get it out of his head so after every other song or so he would say - this is Amp Fiddler at Fiddlers!! As already mentioned Stephanie has strong links with Bristol having worked with the Portishead guys.

Quite what relevance any of this has to the thread I don't know, but hey!

love the photos

[Pete S]

Well that's me told..thanks dad

Sorry Beeks but he's right, nobody anyway has slagged off the singer, just the playing of reggae in Northern main rooms.

[Tony Foster]

Ive heard better frisbee,s spinning thro the air before being catched in the jaws of my Staffy Ted

Its bobbins.

I can hear it now you're right Ian

[Pete S]

OK well as someone just pointed out to me, the acid test is this: would you play Double Barrel at a Northern Soul do?

[Chalky]

OK well as someone just pointed out to me, the acid test is this: would you play Double Barrel at a Northern Soul do?

no it's nothing like a Northern Soul record, the beat is alien to what dancers normally hear (IMHO). Don't know why DJ's have to resort to stuff like this when there is so much good northern dancers ignored.

[Guest MrC]

no it's nothing like a Northern Soul record, the beat is alien to what dancers normally hear (IMHO). Don't know why DJ's have to resort to stuff like this when there is so much good northern dancers ignored.

Exactly

[Guest Soultown andy]

Ive booked a few djs now and again to do reggae ska spots at middleton prestatyn etc,always in one of the side rooms.To be honest they have gone down well,but i dont think it can be done to often and not in the main room at northern nites weekenders etc.Just my opinion obviously.

[Guest]

no it's nothing like a Northern Soul record, the beat is alien to what dancers normally hear (IMHO). Don't know why DJ's have to resort to stuff like this when there is so much good northern dancers ignored.

Thank god....my point exactly CHALKY, hundreds of great 60s and 70s records that never get an airing, cheapos, B sides, album tracks, a veritable treasure trove of great Soul records, which is what I have always believed the Northern scene to be about...how on earth that transposes to contemporary vocal cuts over internationally successful reggae records beats me, unless people are deliberately trying to change the parameters completely..