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Posted

Another page of posts and except Bearsy no body responded to my questions but many posters continued to state OVO at venue xxx etc. without qualfying what is OVO.....

i've been watching with interest to see what sort of response you got. i asked a very similar question before and didnt get any answers ... it was as if folks were to afraid to distinguish in case they 'got it wrong.'

i asked a similar question again some time later and the answers were so varied it would make your head spin. it seemed that it was ok to play a re-issue if it was on kent label coz its 'one of the boys' who put it out.....other legit re-issues were not ok!!!!!

the final answer i got to a query about legal re-issues was; "is simple really, its black and white with a lot of grey areas". Which i take to mean, we make the rules up for ourselves as we go along...but those rules are liable to change at any point

Posted (edited)

i've been watching with interest to see what sort of response you got. i asked a very similar question before and didnt get any answers ... it was as if folks were to afraid to distinguish in case they 'got it wrong.'

i asked a similar question again some time later and the answers were so varied it would make your head spin. it seemed that it was ok to play a re-issue if it was on kent label coz its 'one of the boys' who put it out.....other legit re-issues were not ok!!!!!

the final answer i got to a query about legal re-issues was; "is simple really, its black and white with a lot of grey areas". Which i take to mean, we make the rules up for ourselves as we go along...but those rules are liable to change at any point

It's probably easier to say what a bootleg is - Wikipedia

A bootleg recording is an audio and/or video recording of a performance that was not officially released by the artist or under other legal authority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootleg_recording

Edited by Tony Foster
Posted

It's probably easier to say what a bootleg is - Wikipedia

A bootleg recording is an audio and/or video recording of a performance that was not officially released by the artist or under other legal authority.

https://en.wikipedia....otleg_recording

thats a cop out Tony. we know what a bootleg is....that wasn't his question so the answer is pretty useless but thanks anyway

Posted

......unless of course you are saying it is ok to play anything out as long as its not a bootleg?

  • Helpful 1
Posted

thats a cop out Tony. we know what a bootleg is....that wasn't his question so the answer is pretty useless but thanks anyway

Disagree, it's not a cop out, if you know what a bootleg is you don't really need an answer to what an original is and to what to play at a venue, just my opinion.

Posted

Disagree, it's not a cop out, if you know what a bootleg is you don't really need an answer to what an original is and to what to play at a venue, just my opinion.

this was the question asked .... its not a question of knowing what a bootleg is

Please define "Original Vinyl Only"

Why?

Well, what if a record had a local issue in USA, then got picked up by a national label, and, also had a legitimate re release on the national label, or a subsidiary label, are these all "Original Vinyl" or only only the first local label?

Example, Ann Sexton "You've Been Gone Too Long" has 3 labels that I know of, so which one would meet the criteria?

Also, if a record was issued in the UK as 45 (due to demand) and was only available in US (or other country) as an LP track (e.g. Bobby Hutton "Lend a Hand"), the UK release is "original" as it was never released in its homeland, is it ok to play the 45 from UK as "OVO"? Same goes for the Champion etc.

Also, a legal re-issue of a big rare tune, is that allowed? e.g some of the Kent, Soul Brothers releases? e.g. this: https://www.rarenorth...ve-you/#product

Also, what about records that were never released on vynil and are only on CD as the vaults have been opened? e.g Kim Weston "Two Can Have A Party"

And what about records from other countries, is a record from Japan, Brazil, Turkey, Australia etc. are they allowed to be played as OVO?

My questions are raised, because making statements like OVO without qualifying the criterion for this is confusing. I am not asking about boots - a boot is a boot, but the examples above are genuine releases of a record where at some point hopefully the artist received something from its original sale.

Lastly, I am not trying to be smart a**e, but instead have raised the question as part of sensible discussion

Guest Glawster
Posted

I am sure Bridgewater is a fantastic event, from what I have heard, but a great shame that the 'Brothers of Soul' will be making a one off appearance at Coventry that night and so many other events taking place...true legends of Soul Music, the guys who wrote 'I am nothing' and a one off UK appearance, I would have thought an unmissable event for serious Detroit Fans...kind of sums up the problem that we have nowadays with so many events...shit, why have I gone and posted this in the middle of another OVO debate?.... :hatsoff2:

Not sure how long "The Brothers of Soul" event has been planned but Pete and Cathy as do most promoters plan their dates in a year in advance,Bridgewater like a lot of South West Soul events only run a few events(some less than Bi-Monthly) yearly . Loyalty will certainly be Bridgwater for me,regardless of who's playing in the country! Would have loved to see the Brothers but maybe promoters should check for clashes - IMPOSSIBLE! So its unfortunate these clash.

Mmmmm - Not finished reading this thread SO if the Promoter playing of LAPTOP has raised its head I apologise - NO PLACE for Laptop OLO or BOOTLAP!

Posted

Mike, I would be very interested as to what YOU consider to be exceptable. I know & like you, but you know exactly what is exceptable & your just being pedantic. There is a whole load of difference between a DJ with a box of boots n carvers & a DJ say with FB on Fairmount as opposed to Rouser & a couple of carvers of previously unissued tracks. I'm not sure why you feel it has to be spelt out to the letter, unless of course you wanna catch someone out for some reason ???.

If no one has realised yet, Soulontop is a clown just playing games, ignore the fool - I have it on very good authority exactly what his criteria is.

Best Russ

Posted

If no one has realised yet, Soulontop is a clown just playing games, ignore the fool - I have it on very good authority exactly what his criteria is.

:lol:

Posted

LOL

Have you been reading my case file at soul police central to know what my criteria is :g:

Posted

Mike, I would be very interested as to what YOU consider to be exceptable. I know & like you, but you know exactly what is exceptable & your just being pedantic. There is a whole load of difference between a DJ with a box of boots n carvers & a DJ say with FB on Fairmount as opposed to Rouser & a couple of carvers of previously unissued tracks. I'm not sure why you feel it has to be spelt out to the letter, unless of course you wanna catch someone out for some reason ???.

If no one has realised yet, Soulontop is a clown just playing games, ignore the fool - I have it on very good authority exactly what his criteria is.

Best Russ

hi Russ. not trying to 'catch anyone out' .... its just that over a period of time the views vary so greatly from those who say ovo that it is just so hard to pin down what is acceptable..... some people who say ovo do contradict themselves when it suits there own ends thats all.

what i find acceptable? i dont care what another dj plays if i'm at a venue, i'm there to dance & enjoy the music. myself playing? i have played boots alongside orig before and never had a problem from promotors or paying crowds. i recently did an internet radio show where there is a camara so played all orig except for a caver of an LP track .... i played at a couple of venues over the last couple of years and played orig only because i had spoken to the promotor and that is what we agreed .... i'm not so sure one of the other dj's did the same as they did play some boots.

i suppose it is down to where i'm playing and what the promotor wants that dictates.

Posted

hi Russ. not trying to 'catch anyone out' .... its just that over a period of time the views vary so greatly from those who say ovo that it is just so hard to pin down what is acceptable..... some people who say ovo do contradict themselves when it suits there own ends thats all.

what i find acceptable? i dont care what another dj plays if i'm at a venue, i'm there to dance & enjoy the music. myself playing? i have played boots alongside orig before and never had a problem from promotors or paying crowds. i recently did an internet radio show where there is a camara so played all orig except for a caver of an LP track .... i played at a couple of venues over the last couple of years and played orig only because i had spoken to the promotor and that is what we agreed .... i'm not so sure one of the other dj's did the same as they did play some boots.

i suppose it is down to where i'm playing and what the promotor wants that dictates.

spot on post. :thumbsup:

Posted (edited)

hi Russ. not trying to 'catch anyone out' .... its just that over a period of time the views vary so greatly from those who say ovo that it is just so hard to pin down what is acceptable..... some people who say ovo do contradict themselves when it suits there own ends thats all.

what i find acceptable? i dont care what another dj plays if i'm at a venue, i'm there to dance & enjoy the music. myself playing? i have played boots alongside orig before and never had a problem from promotors or paying crowds. i recently did an internet radio show where there is a camara so played all orig except for a caver of an LP track .... i played at a couple of venues over the last couple of years and played orig only because i had spoken to the promotor and that is what we agreed .... i'm not so sure one of the other dj's did the same as they did play some boots.

i suppose it is down to where i'm playing and what the promotor wants that dictates.

Can you tell us at what venues you played your boots and what venues wanted originals only.Thanks.

Edited by wiggyflat
Posted

Not sure how long "The Brothers of Soul" event has been planned but Pete and Cathy as do most promoters plan their dates in a year in advance,Bridgewater like a lot of South West Soul events only run a few events(some less than Bi-Monthly) yearly . Loyalty will certainly be Bridgwater for me,regardless of who's playing in the country! Would have loved to see the Brothers but maybe promoters should check for clashes - IMPOSSIBLE! So its unfortunate these clash.

Mmmmm - Not finished reading this thread SO if the Promoter playing of LAPTOP has raised its head I apologise - NO PLACE for Laptop OLO or BOOTLAP!

Not looking for an argument, but that's precisely what I do not understand about this...This is probably a once in a lifetime chance to see a group of true Northern Soul legends, the guys who actually made a catalougue of brilliant records and wrote some of the greatest tunes ever...Personally and I mean this, If I was promoting a do and I saw the chance to see BOS on the same date, I'd cancel the do even if it cost me money...Also, I suppose it's about what excites people the most...and that is the strange thing about this scene, I mean the chance to see, with all due respect GINGER TAYLOR or BROTHERS OF SOUL for a Detroit Soul fan??? And hey, it's not as if there are not a superb line up of DJ'S supporting BOS is it? Just very weird to me...As DAVE MOORE said to me the other day, the older I get the more I realise the artists are more important than the 'scene' or even records and I think he is right, because without these guys and girls, all the rest would not exist...And there will come a time in the not too distant future when your chances of seeing Soul Artists from this era outside of the US will become virtually nil...No, still cannot see how this is not a must-see for any serious Detroit Soul fan... :hatsoff2:

  • Helpful 3
Posted

I feel for the promoters, they could have paid deposits, risk losing the good favour of the owners of the venue, the DJ's could have been working else where & so on.......without a doubt BOS spot on & gonna be a fantastic event, but surely you cant expect people to cancel regular nights & possibly lose money & custom......?.

Best Russ


Guest bury masonic
Posted

ABSOLUTELY!!

100%

HAND ON HEART

GOES WITHOUT SAYING!!

Posted

The chance to hear Brothers Of Soul LIVE!

With a String Section!!

In front of a knowledgable crowd of devotees!!!

I'll be there for sure. If folks would rather have another soul night at their local gig that's there perogative and I hope they have a great night. Nothing wrong with that. Me? I'll be lost in the world of Detroit Soul listening to the legends that supplied the background to my life. Ensuring that they KNOW they were appreciated and that their work was admired by devoted fans even if it was a continent away. See, you only get a few chances to show them this. The word 'Loyalty' has been used and I find it a little sad that people have it a little mixed up. Without BOS and their ilk there'd be no scene/clubs/DJs etc to be loyal TO.

This post isn't meant to upset anyone, there's certainly no malice in it. Just wanted to show a different personal perspective on the subject.

The records are plastic. They're great but they're plastic.

The people are the real gift to us.

Regards,

Dave

  • Helpful 2
Posted

I have read 99% of this entire thread and cannot believe some of the excuses ive read for justifying playing anything but OVO!, the clue is the name, "rare soul scene"!, anybody who makes excuses for playing alternative formats other than the original source are just desperate for justification for latch on to the hard graft, talent, courage, fortune, forsight, originality of others!Tranells on Kent is not on its original format, neither are re-issue 45's of 'LP" only tracks, or 2ND issues released some 30yrs later by label/band members!, there are in excess of 100,0000+ original records from the 60's-70's-80's etc that a dj can play rather than 'latch' on to the 'glory' of others discoveries, get a grip or we head down the road of CD'S, MP'S and "its whats in the groove that counts" bollox brigade!,

  • Helpful 1
Posted

At Down in the Basement we only play OVO

However, I did once play some records wearing boots, is this allowed ???? :rofl:

Posted (edited)

Not looking for an argument, but that's precisely what I do not understand about this...This is probably a once in a lifetime chance to see a group of true Northern Soul legends, the guys who actually made a catalougue of brilliant records and wrote some of the greatest tunes ever...Personally and I mean this, If I was promoting a do and I saw the chance to see BOS on the same date, I'd cancel the do even if it cost me money...Also, I suppose it's about what excites people the most...and that is the strange thing about this scene, I mean the chance to see, with all due respect GINGER TAYLOR or BROTHERS OF SOUL for a Detroit Soul fan??? And hey, it's not as if there are not a superb line up of DJ'S supporting BOS is it? Just very weird to me...As DAVE MOORE said to me the other day, the older I get the more I realise the artists are more important than the 'scene' or even records and I think he is right, because without these guys and girls, all the rest would not exist...And there will come a time in the not too distant future when your chances of seeing Soul Artists from this era outside of the US will become virtually nil...No, still cannot see how this is not a must-see for any serious Detroit Soul fan... :hatsoff2:

It's never been artist based though, when an artist came on at Wigan, I went in M's to keep the night going. Lots of people did. I wouldn't travel 4 miles to Wolverhampton Civic to see any artist in the world. Not interested, and neither are a lot of people. Sorry but thats the way it is love the records, not interested in any artists.

Edited by Pete S
Posted

there are in excess of 100,0000+ original records from the 60's-70's-80's etc that a dj can play rather than 'latch' on to the 'glory' of others discoveries

where do you get this number? I doubt there are 100,000 "northern soul" records a DJ can play.

Posted (edited)

Would the admission price have any bearing if all tracks played should be ovo or not? Just a thought as the cheapest i know about is £2.00 but a lot seem to charge £5.00 for soul nights in the East Midlands.

Claire xxx

Edited by Claire S
Posted

Would the admission price have any bearing if all tracks played should be ovo or not? Just a thought as the cheapest i know about is £2.00 but a lot seem to charge £5.00 for soul nights in the East Midlands.

Claire xxx

If they are playing boots/reissues etc you would like to think that that the costs would be lower but I suppose it depends how much they are paying the deejays and the hire of the venue.

Posted (edited)

Would the admission price have any bearing if all tracks played should be ovo or not? Just a thought as the cheapest i know about is £2.00 but a lot seem to charge £5.00 for soul nights in the East Midlands.

Claire xxx

If they are playing boots/reissues etc you would like to think that that the costs would be lower but I suppose it depends how much they are paying the deejays and the hire of the venue.

Edited by wiggyflat
Posted

where do you get this number? I doubt there are 100,000 "northern soul" records a DJ can play.

y

i added an extra '0' by mistake!, point i was making is that if you are a dj and are doing an hours set that is roughly 20-25 records and you cant find in your box that many originals then jog on and get collecting before you wanna put yourself forward as a rare soul dj! :yes:

Posted

I feel for the promoters, they could have paid deposits, risk losing the good favour of the owners of the venue, the DJ's could have been working else where & so on.......without a doubt BOS spot on & gonna be a fantastic event, but surely you cant expect people to cancel regular nights & possibly lose money & custom......?.

Best Russ

I only said what I would do RUSS and anyways, the Northern Soul world is hardly going to stop spinning because a few events are cancelled is it mate? And if anybody's punters were so shallow they never came again because the Promoter wanted to see BOS, who'd want to promote for people like that? No, I have had some good ding dong's with DAVE but his comments about 'the soundtrack to our lives' reflect my feelings completely...This is an ultra rare chance to pay tribute to guys who represent the soul of our scene and the word 'loyalty' is definetly being misplaced if used to explain a preference to attend a local Soul night...That's if you class yourself as serious Detroit Soul fan of course... :hatsoff2:

Posted

i added an extra '0' by mistake!, point i was making is that if you are a dj and are doing an hours set that is roughly 20-25 records and you cant find in your box that many originals then jog on and get collecting before you wanna put yourself forward as a rare soul dj! :yes:

I took off the extra zero, was wondering where you got 100,000. It's not important. I pretty much agree with what you are saying above.

Posted (edited)

I took off the extra zero, was wondering where you got 100,000. It's not important. I pretty much agree with what you are saying above.

Problem is some deejays want to play the "big" dancefloor sounds Luther Ingram etc etc and they cost money.The easiest route is boots/reissues.I agree you could put a good quality set of 25 records together on original and still have the dancefloor buzzing.It just takes a bit of imagination and digging.It is even easier these days....no waiting for lists or visiting shops. Ebay and auctionsniper has opened up an easy access world to buy original 45's.

Edited by wiggyflat

Posted

It's never been artist based though, when an artist came on at Wigan, I went in M's to keep the night going. Lots of people did. I wouldn't travel 4 miles to Wolverhampton Civic to see any artist in the world. Not interested, and neither are a lot of people. Sorry but thats the way it is love the records, not interested in any artists.

Yes PETE, precisely the attitude that baffles me and some other people...What are records other than plastic representations of human stories and lives/performances? And how could people be so passionate about the works of other people but have no interest in those real people whatsoever...It's rather like somebody being an avid DAMIEN HIRST fan for donkeys years, then they get a chance to hear him speak about his art and they just shrug their shoulders and say 'Not interested in the srtists, only the art'....Would you not agree that there might be something a little shallow about such an attitude?.... :hatsoff2:

Posted

Problem is some deejays want to play the "big" dancefloor sounds Luther Ingram etc etc and they cost money.The easiest route is boots/reissues.I agree you could put a good quality set of 25 records together on original and still have the dancefloor buzzing.It just takes a bit of imagination and digging.It is even easier these days....no waiting for lists or visiting shops. Ebay and auctionsniper has opened up an easy access world to buy original 45's.

Precisely the point you made, "a bit of imagination and digging" is the core essence of what i believe being a rare northern soul dj is (should) be all about, ***k Luther Ingram, not a bad record but just needs a good lie down (IMO)!!? :thumbsup:

Posted

Yes PETE, precisely the attitude that baffles me and some other people...What are records other than plastic representations of human stories and lives/performances? And how could people be so passionate about the works of other people but have no interest in those real people whatsoever...It's rather like somebody being an avid DAMIEN HIRST fan for donkeys years, then they get a chance to hear him speak about his art and they just shrug their shoulders and say 'Not interested in the srtists, only the art'....Would you not agree that there might be something a little shallow about such an attitude?.... :hatsoff2:

You're asking the wrong person.

I'm not interested in artists.

Only records.

I've got thousands of records, I'm interested in the history of the record, it's origins, interesting facts about it, anecdotal facts about the artists - but the last thing on my mind would be wanting to actually see the artists. Sorry.

Posted

You're asking the wrong person.

I'm not interested in artists.

Only records.

I've got thousands of records, I'm interested in the history of the record, it's origins, interesting facts about it, anecdotal facts about the artists - but the last thing on my mind would be wanting to actually see the artists. Sorry.

I refer you to POSTS 4 and 6 in the 'Wheelsville' thread mate... :hatsoff2:

Posted

Precisely the point you made, "a bit of imagination and digging" is the core essence of what i believe being a rare northern soul dj is (should) be all about, ***k Luther Ingram, not a bad record but just needs a good lie down (IMO)!!? :thumbsup:

Great record........but what has killed it and made it into an overplayed oldie.......yes reissue/boot deejays.If the only way of hearing it was on ovo then you probably would not be as sick of it.

Guest SteveJohnston
Posted

I did my spot at The Stute last night as I do every month & I was asked for Luther Ingram so I played it . I can't see the problem with this kind of track as long as there are a few lesser played ones in the spot

Posted

I only said what I would do RUSS and anyways, the Northern Soul world is hardly going to stop spinning because a few events are cancelled is it mate? And if anybody's punters were so shallow they never came again because the Promoter wanted to see BOS, who'd want to promote for people like that? No, I have had some good ding dong's with DAVE but his comments about 'the soundtrack to our lives' reflect my feelings completely...This is an ultra rare chance to pay tribute to guys who represent the soul of our scene and the word 'loyalty' is definetly being misplaced if used to explain a preference to attend a local Soul night...That's if you class yourself as serious Detroit Soul fan of course... :hatsoff2:

Woa boy.........I agree with everything everyone has said about BOS........all I'm saying is I feel a bit sorry for those that have long standing events that now clash, I'm not diagreeing with you....so keep ya knickers on lol

Russ

Posted

Woa boy.........I agree with everything everyone has said about BOS........all I'm saying is I feel a bit sorry for those that have long standing events that now clash, I'm not diagreeing with you....so keep ya knickers on lol

Russ

I did not think you were disagreeing in the slightest RUSS, I just kind of amalgamated comments on about three postings into one - seeing this is a slightly 'subversive' posting in it's own right LOL!.... :hatsoff2:

Posted

I did not think you were disagreeing in the slightest RUSS, I just kind of amalgamated comments on about three postings into one - seeing this is a slightly 'subversive' posting in it's own right LOL!.... :hatsoff2:

:thumbsup:

Russ

Posted

I'm not interested in artists.

Only records.

I've got thousands of records, I'm interested in the history of the record, it's origins, interesting facts about it, anecdotal facts about the artists - but the last thing on my mind would be wanting to actually see the artists. Sorry.

Agreed Pete. There are artists that have produced dozens of records, out of which I may only like one enough to have in my collection. Others may have produced a number of records on a particular label that I like, but wouldn't give the time of day to their output on other labels.

A liking for a particular tune does not automatically mean a liking for the artist in general.

Posted

Great record........but what has killed it and made it into an overplayed oldie.......yes reissue/boot deejays.If the only way of hearing it was on ovo then you probably would not be as sick of it.

Agree with your quote 100%,

Posted

Agreed Pete. There are artists that have produced dozens of records, out of which I may only like one enough to have in my collection. Others may have produced a number of records on a particular label that I like, but wouldn't give the time of day to their output on other labels.

A liking for a particular tune does not automatically mean a liking for the artist in general.

Granted...but the overall quality of the BROTHERS OF SOUL'S work is surely way outside that equation?.... :hatsoff2:

Posted

Granted...but the overall quality of the BROTHERS OF SOUL'S work is surely way outside that equation?.... :hatsoff2:

I wasn't addressing BOS - I was replying to Pete's specific point.

Posted

I wasn't addressing BOS - I was replying to Pete's specific point.

So would they fall outside of your previous equation?... :hatsoff2:

Posted

Lots of folk coming on here saying they only play OV at their venues.

However we'd expect that. The ones that don't stick to that format are not likely to shout about it are they? :unsure:

Guest
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