Is Playing A Boot At A Venue Ever Acceptable

[Rugby Soul Club]

Once I had been shown the buzz of owning a long sought after,saved for tune I realised that for myself personally this was the only way to be.

That's the nail on the head.

For a collector, it is the buzz of hearing, wanting, finding and then owning that piece of original vinyl but still only the vinyl junkie can understand and the majority of dancers on the floor don't understand and never will...

but then why should they, they just wanna dance and have a good time...

[Guest Bearsy]

there are boots of Mello Souls and the Parliaments on ebay, i could get both tunes worth about £20k for as little as £20, mmmm could be great to just have to play at home fook it what a waste of £20 i can hear them both on You Tube for nowt that reminds me i just bought 2 cracking tunes Originals of course for £20 inc p&p anyone wanna know what they are ?? there brilliant and would fill a dance floor anywhere imho

[Guest kev such]

I would dearly love a copy of the Traditions or Parisians "Twinkle little star". However it is at the moment out of my reach, I totally lose myself in this tune and have noticed that there are some on sale on ebay and other avenues but I shall bide my time and eventually OH YES IT WILL BE MINE.

[Russ Vickers]

I have been giving this thread a lot of thought since Julies post regarding honesty about bootlegs.

A couple of things happened to me in a short space of time, albeit many years ago. I had been going to Nighters for well over 10 years before I started to put a very modest collection of records together, my collection at the time consisted of the odd bootleg & reissue I had bought at Wigan & the originals I had started to buy. I had no aspirations what so ever to DJ, DJ's at the big Allnighters were like god to me, to even consider DJing in the same arena as those beings was pretty much unthinkable to most people, I was just vey happy to be collecting.

I didnt really have any opinions about bootlegs that I can rememeber, but one thing sticks in my mind from back then, I had been to the 100 Club or Stafford on the Saturday & after hanging out with friends all day Sunday went to a local soul night were the DJ played 'Lover' The Delites, I remember rushing to the decks to look at the 45 & being really disappointed when I realised it was being played from the Grapevine LP. Now, I didnt/dont know why I was disappointed but I was & that has always stuck in my mind.

Around about the same time, I was attending another local soul night, when the guest DJ failed to show - the promoter who I knew, said to me 'you've got a few records why dont you go home & get em & spin a few tonite'.....I had never done this before in my life & didnt have a clue, he then talked me into going home for my records. When I did my 'spot' we stood behind the decks together & he put my records on the decks which I chose. He did a well recieved set with my choices of records, as I didnt know how to use the equipment & was too scared to try 'live', so to speak, but by the end of the night & after several people coming up to check out what was playing on the decks, I had been asked to DJ at several other promotions locally !!!.

Now that night I could have chosen my bootlegs of some huge NS tunes, but I chose instead to play my originals of lesser tunes, but still hopefully good in thier own right, I dont know why, certainly the promoter & most of the punters wouldnt have cared less, I personally had no greater opinion, just that I wanted 'my' records to be heard.

The feeling that night gave me was amazing, people wanted to dance & were interested in records that 'I' owned, it was an unbeleivable feeling. I forfilled my local spots after a crash course in using the equipment & to be honest I have never looked back.

I still dont consider myself a DJ. I am a collector who occasionally gets to spin a few of his records, for which I am always very grateful for the opportunity to be able to share them with others. I have been very lucky to have been asked to play my records at some of the big venues over the years, but I still hold many of the top DJ's in awe & still get a thrill from DJing.........but I have never forgot how dissapointed I was when the Delites was not the original & the response I got in the beginning from playing my modest collection of originals.

best Russ

[Mace]

Does anyone actually ever use the term 'OVO' when out and about?

Perhaps it's just me, but I cringe everytime I see it posted up, and can't believe that anyone uses it as a term of reference for a venue/DJ etc as normal conversation?

"OMG did you go to that nighter last night, it's just right 4U cus it's 100% OVO and a fab night IMO."

FFS

Edited October 9, 2011 by Mace

[Md Records]

We all used to queue up outside Wigan moaning about "OVO", mind you the internet was in Black & White then, and a lot slower than it is today!

Des Parker

[Claire J]

I've been asked to ask this question coz Steve is up the ladder decorating ..

He wants to know if it's ok to play Melba Moore " Magic Touch " on Horace , as many do ..

Claire xxx

[Guest Bearsy]

i djd at a local do a couple of years ago and put Silky Hargreaves on "KLMLYD" and just as i was taking the tune off the other deck i noticed a fella walkingall the way up to the decks from the back of the room and just waited before i turned to choose me next spin just incase he wanted to ask me something or other when all of a sudden from 2/3 yards away he stretched his neck checked on the label and then walked off, me being me got a bit miffed at the time so i turned the volume down picked the mic up and said "dont worry mate its an original" he just put his hand up without turning as if to acknowledge me but i didnt know if i felt pissed off cos i got checked out or chuffed cos i proved his doubts wrong, anyway it made the others around me giggle in desbelief at my cheek ive also been up to the decks to check to see if a record was the real thing, why i dont know its something i just did cos it was a big want of mine for one and also i suppose cos it didnt sit with the rest of the records played by the dj it made me intruiged and yep it was a boot, did i say anything should i of said something what the fook has it got to do with me , i learnt a lesson though, dont be cheeky and dont be nosey just do my own thing but would i support a night knowing that the dj i know that played the boot that night was djn at, probably not, why i dont know, funny old thing this scene but we are who we are and we do what we do right or wrong, fook it im starting to sound like a chin stroker maybe i am but hey could be worse could be a rockabilly

[Mace]

i djd at a local do a couple of years ago and put Silky Hargreaves on "KLMLYD"

Now you're just taking the p*ss.....

[Ian Parker]

nowt wrong with rockabilly's........i quite enjoy their do's , especially a kick arse live band

[Guest Bearsy]

Now you're just taking the p*ss.....

fooked if i was writing the whole title out Mace im typing enough shite as it is pmsl imho lolol

[Guest Bearsy]

nowt wrong with rockabilly's........i quite enjoy their do's , especially a kick arse live band

nowt wrong with Mormans but i wouldnt want to be one sorry only joking

[Russ Vickers]

The main reason I decided to go OVO was in honest respect for collectors and people with infinately surpassing collections. As I was hoping to invite the kind of DJ's to guest at The Cream Cracker ( through Nidges contacts) for the good and benefit of The Jacobs. I knew that there was NO WAY IN HELL that I would be taken seriously by people I respect and admire greatly by insulting them and taking the easy option in vinyl collecting. I have honestly NO problems if people want to play from whatever format they wish as long as they are honest about it. How much of a pretentious prick would I be to lay my ideals firmly at anyones door,considering my beginnings in this venture.

When we held the Charity alldayer for Help The Heroes I wholeheartedly believe that I could never had asked the calibre of guest dj's who helped if I stood alongside them and mimiked their collections cheaply.

Once I had been shown the buzz of owning a long sought after,saved for tune I realised that for myself personally this was the only way to be.

The case that springs most to mind is that the first real OVO tune I bought for a serious amount of money was an issue of Roy Hamilton "Cracking up" from Mr Chapman ( through Mellors) and when I had the vinyl in my hand and was looking so forward to playing it someone before me played it on a boot. This annoyed me immensely and made me realise how frustrated OVO collectors must have felt when I sallied up with my Del Boy suitcase of boots.

From that point there was no denying that if I wanted to hold my head up amongst my peers I had to change my lacklustre approach to djing and collecting.

With the guidance, and patience of people I hold in very high regard I turned my collection around in my opinion for the better.

Kev ( still not doing modern ) Such

I think that is a very honest reply & shows what its all about, thanks for that.

Besst Russ

[Russ Vickers]

I've been asked to ask this question coz Steve is up the ladder decorating ..

He wants to know if it's ok to play Melba Moore " Magic Touch " on Horace , as many do ..

Claire xxx

I would prefer to play the 6ts Anniversary 45 of it personally, but hey.

Best Russ

[Chalky]

I've been asked to ask this question coz Steve is up the ladder decorating ..

He wants to know if it's ok to play Melba Moore " Magic Touch " on Horace , as many do ..

Claire xxx

I play it of the Kent Anniversary 45. Horace the first legitimate release (for sale) seeing as it was previously unissued. Any legitimate release is ok although I wouldn't play one if it exists on an original US release, thats just me though others have a different opinion.

[Claire J]

I would prefer to play the 6ts Anniversary 45 of it personally, but hey.

Best Russ

Hi Russ,

Steve says stop making him laugh he's on a tricky bit !!

Claire xxx

[Russ Vickers]

Hi Russ,

Steve says stop making him laugh he's on a tricky bit !!

Claire xxx

Lol ......

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

name='Mace' timestamp='1318175213' post='1644380']

Does anyone actually ever use the term 'OVO' when out and about?

Perhaps it's just me, but I cringe everytime I see it posted up, and can't believe that anyone uses it as a term of reference for a venue/DJ etc as normal conversation?

"OMG did you go to that nighter last night, it's just right 4U cus it's 100% OVO and a fab night IMO."

FFS

No, its a SS thing....its only relatively recently that its been an issue anyway, prior to that it was just summat that you assumed really.

Russ

[Guest kev such]

I play it of the Kent Anniversary 45. Horace the first legitimate release (for sale) seeing as it was previously unissued. Any legitimate release is ok although I wouldn't play one if it exists on an original US release, thats just me though others have a different opinion.

Think it was played off of the Horace issue on the Old Grey Whistle Test episode showing Northern Soul club, with an old Army mate Paul Gaundrel in the shots.

[Russ Vickers]

I play it of the Kent Anniversary 45. Horace the first legitimate release (for sale) seeing as it was previously unissued. Any legitimate release is ok although I wouldn't play one if it exists on an original US release, thats just me though others have a different opinion.

Think it was played off of the Horace issue on the Old Grey Whistle Test episode showing Northern Soul club, with an old Army mate Paul Gaundrel in the shots.

Yes, it was, cant remember if it was Guy or Ady spinning ?.

Best Russ

[Chalky]

Think it was played off of the Horace issue on the Old Grey Whistle Test episode showing Northern Soul club, with an old Army mate Paul Gaundrel in the shots.

Think the Old Grey Whistle test was showing a cover up and the wrong DJ when it was played, memory could be playing up.

[Chalky]

Yes, it was, cant remember if it was Guy or Ady spinning ?.

Best Russ

It was Guy

Might be wrong but not sure if Horace issue had been released then?

Quick search on Youtube and here is a screen shot of the disc on the decks when Magic Touch started.... (no whistling smiley)

[Russ Vickers]

Wonder what was underneath that paper label ?.......no doubt a classic now !!!.

Russ

[Guest]

Regardless of what anyone says publicly, privately everyone knows what the deal is with bootlegs.....

the rest is just hot air & trying to justify themselves or friends for doin it....which ever way you look at it, the answer is still a resounding NO, NO, NO........

Russ

I'm not so sure on this one Russ. I dont know if they just get confused or what but I can remember having a very brief, one-sided conversation with someone who shall remain nameless. We were outside of a soul gig smoking a ciggie when the person said to me ...

"Most of em on soul source are up their own arses .... personally I couldnt give a f*ck if the dj played boots all night long as long as i can dance to them ...somtimes this scene is taken too seriously"

I couldn't believe my ears as they are a member on here and shout very loudly against the playing of boots

[Julie Moore]

Some good honest answers there my friends I personally would`nt know a Boot from the real thing but that doesn`t stop me from caring i truly wish i could have followed in my brothers footsteps with massive record collections but unfortunatly I never could but I think I know whats right & wrong and i may have to take the advise my elder brother gave me recently while i was In spain I have a lot of admiration & respect for the decent dj`s who do go out there and look for all these gems that i can go out and have a bloody good listen & boogie too thankyou one & all

Regards

Julie x

[Russ Vickers]

I'm not so sure on this one Russ. I dont know if they just get confused or what but I can remember having a very brief, one-sided conversation with someone who shall remain nameless. We were outside of a soul gig smoking a ciggie when the person said to me ...

"Most of em on soul source are up their own arses .... personally I couldnt give a f*ck if the dj played boots all night long as long as i can dance to them ...somtimes this scene is taken too seriously"

I couldn't believe my ears as they are a member on here and shout very loudly against the playing of boots

It was probably me mate .......usually that smashed - I wouldnt take anything I say when I'm out too seriously.........I dont .

Anyway, I answered your radio show question & you said no one had replied.

Best Russ

[Guest]

It was probably me mate .......usually that smashed - I wouldnt take anything I say when I'm out too seriously.........I dont .

Anyway, I answered your radio show question & you said no one had replied.

Best Russ

thnks for your earlier reply Russ, but I wanted to know if its ovo when playing on a radio station, not the playing of cd's or mp3

[Chalky]

Wonder what was underneath that paper label ?.......no doubt a classic now !!!.

Russ

Dunno Russ but you are probably right, now a classic. The whole Tony's clip is has different DJ's to the records and different DJ's on the mic to the one on film. Think one clip has Guy in the film and Jimmy Wensiora speaking??? Anyway back to boots......

[Chalky]

thnks for your earlier reply Russ, but I wanted to know if its ovo when playing on a radio station, not the playing of cd's or mp3

would you be a guest showcasing your collection? If so then it is your original vinyl only or anything unissued thou might have. If it is just a general radio show playing northern soul then I guess no one will care nor be non the wiser?

[Patto]

Whats the opinions on these two previously unissued tracks.Playable or Not and if not then why does the Marvin Gaye fetch so much money thesedays

Edited October 9, 2011 by Patto

[Chalky]

Whats the opinions on these two previously unissued tracks.Playable or Not and if not then why does the Marvin Gaye fetch so much money tesedays

both boots as far as I'm aware. There is only one original of LSH put out by Motown in mid 90's (?) as a promotion at some seminar showcasing a Marvin Gaye cd or something like (?).

it was originally played off a cut (carver if you like) as it was sent over here on a cassette originally.

Let's Talk It Over taken from a Japanese CD or something like and never issued on a 45. There is another boot of it as well, looks like a 60's UK demo 45.

[Patto]

both boots as far as I'm aware. There is only one original of LSH put out by Motown in mid 90's (?) as a promotion at some seminar showcasing a Marvin Gaye cd or something like (?).

it was originally played off a cut (carver if you like) as it was sent over here on a cassette originally.

Let's Talk It Over taken from a Japanese CD or something like and never issued on a 45. There is another boot of it as well, looks like a 60's UK demo 45.

Both regularly played for years at many venues all over and as i say the M G commands a very good price some records are just accepted as playable.

[Chalky]

Both regularly played for years at many venues all over and as i say the M G commands a very good price some records are just accepted as playable.

Personally I wouldn't play either of them, the only legit release of LTIO is the one on Kent.

[Raremusicdirect]

Does anyone actually ever use the term 'OVO' when out and about?

Perhaps it's just me, but I cringe everytime I see it posted up, and can't believe that anyone uses it as a term of reference for a venue/DJ etc as normal conversation?

"OMG did you go to that nighter last night, it's just right 4U cus it's 100% OVO and a fab night IMO."

FFS

I think they do Mace, I have heard people discussing whether events are OVO and also djs - not always the main issue - might be sound system, floor also etc...........but yes defo heard such chat.........

[Guest Matt Male]

thnks for your earlier reply Russ, but I wanted to know if its ovo when playing on a radio station, not the playing of cd's or mp3

I did a radio show a few weeks back and took a 100 box of originals to play. It never occured to me to make a CD or take a laptop along. That's just me, some others might burn a CD or take mp3s, to each his own.

I suppose I approached it the same way I approach DJing a regular night, my box reflects my playstyle, my interests, my personality, my choices, and no one elses. I couldn't do it with boots.

I agree with Chalky, if you've been invited along as a guest, then take your vinyl. I don't imagine the host would be happy if you turned up with a few retail CDs he could have put on himself.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Matt Male

[Wiggyflat]

Historically records were dropped once they had been booted.Most of the boots were made in the seventies and a lot of our treasured artists were still alive and if their records were reissued legitimately they would have received income.The money made from the bootlegs lined criminal pockets when it could have lined the artists pockets.Simple .Buying a boot then was filling criminal coffers and not the artists pockets.Who was buying them....mostly young kids desperate for sounds.Thirty plus years on.....thirty years of age/experience and we have those same artists (the ones that are alive) visiting these shores to experience our love for their music.All those advocating the playing of boots......how would you feel if say Tommy Hunt came up to the decks as you were playing your crackin up boot."Hey I didn't realise it was released on that, I never got any royalties from that"....mmmm "yeah Tommy keep the faith!!!".

Don't people have a sense of pride in their records/deejaying as well....it's like a master craftsman turning up with tools from Poundstretcher.

I wonder what the rare and the northern soul scene event guide would be like if there was a mass culling of cd/boots/carver gigs.Keeping the faith seems like empty rhetoric to some people and you can't even blame it on age.

If youre ovo only no matter what you do stick it on your flyers.....and give soulsource a plug as well.

Edited October 9, 2011 by wiggyflat

[Patto]

Personally I wouldn't play either of them, the only legit release of LTIO is the one on Kent.

So is the Chris King one deffo not legit,if not its a bloody expensive boot seen for a tonne.Also the Kent release of LTIO has only recently come out so for years this top dancer has only been heard out due to the Torch copy.Also talking about Kent the recent release of the Jesse Davis Lets talk it over has the brill pev unissued instrumental on it.Perfectly ok to play out but how would a dj who owned the original ERA copy feel if someone before him played the inst and stole his thunder.So many things to take into consideration who would dare to be a DJ.

[Guest]

Keep it on topic please, enough of the sock colours.

i love it, you can just imagine being in court..

ORDER, ORDER!

[Julie Moore]

Got another dilemma more on the "Modern Scene" than any other......................playing from a laptop or downloads a lot of it going on from what I see

Should that be in another thread ????

Julie

[Chalky]

So is the Chris King one deffo not legit,if not its a bloody expensive boot seen for a tonne.Also the Kent release of LTIO has only recently come out so for years this top dancer has only been heard out due to the Torch copy.Also talking about Kent the recent release of the Jesse Davis Lets talk it over has the brill pev unissued instrumental on it.Perfectly ok to play out but how would a dj who owned the original ERA copy feel if someone before him played the inst and stole his thunder.So many things to take into consideration who would dare to be a DJ.

As I said if it has been released then I wouldn't play it and I know some DJ's who are more than bit miffed when say a grapevine copy was played when he was on next with an original of a certain record.

LTIO has been played from the Soul Series one, looks like the pink Marvin Gaye of Chris Kings only green.

[Guest sharmo 1]

Got another dilemma more on the "Modern Scene" than any other......................playing from a laptop or downloads a lot of it going on from what I see

Should that be in another thread ????

Julie

Laptops Jesus Christ I'm back down the boozer for a couple more pint's of mild ..............that's got top be the end

[Chalky]

Got another dilemma more on the "Modern Scene" than any other......................playing from a laptop or downloads a lot of it going on from what I see

Should that be in another thread ????

Julie

Downloads, especially today's modern scene are a legitimate format...paid for and artist gets their money. Northern scene a different matter as they wouldn't be the original format.

[Guest sharmo 1]

Got another dilemma more on the "Modern Scene" than any other......................playing from a laptop or downloads a lot of it going on from what I see

Should that be in another thread ????

Julie

Laptops Jesus Christ I'm back down the boozer for a couple more pint's of mild ..............that's got top be the end

Historically records were dropped once they had been booted.Most of the boots were made in the seventies and a lot of our treasured artists were still alive and if their records were reissued legitimately they would have received income.The money made from the bootlegs lined criminal pockets when it could have lined the artists pockets.Simple .Buying a boot then was filling criminal coffers and not the artists pockets.Who was buying them....mostly young kids desperate for sounds.Thirty plus years on.....thirty years of age/experience and we have those same artists (the ones that are alive) visiting these shores to experience our love for their music.All those advocating the playing of boots......how would you feel if say Tommy Hunt came up to the decks as you were playing your crackin up boot."Hey I didn't realise it was released on that, I never got any royalties from that"....mmmm "yeah Tommy keep the faith!!!".

Don't people have a sense of pride in their records/deejaying as well....it's like a master craftsman turning up with tools from Poundstretcher.

I wonder what the rare and the northern soul scene event guide would be like if there was a mass culling of cd/boots/carver gigs.Keeping the faith seems like empty rhetoric to some people and you can't even blame it on age.

If youre ovo only no matter what you do stick it on your flyers.....and give soulsource a plug as well.

I say chap do you really believe anyones gonna really play Tommy Hunt on ( if you are refering to spark records) Jesus I'm really gonna get pissed now my man.Seriously hands up who's played that one out? could have gone for Yvonne Vernee on Groovy Grooves mate regards ect.

[Wiggyflat]

Laptops Jesus Christ I'm back down the boozer for a couple more pint's of mild ..............that's got top be the end

I say chap do you really believe anyones gonna really play Tommy Hunt on ( if you are refering to spark records) Jesus I'm really gonna get pissed now my man.Seriously hands up who's played that one out? could have gone for Yvonne Vernee on Groovy Grooves mate regards ect.

I should have picked another example......say John Hampton on Dottys or any of the hundreds of other boots.Spark was legitimate ....ouch you get my drift.

Edited October 9, 2011 by wiggyflat

[Guest sharmo 1]

I should have picked another example......say John Hampton on Dottys or any of the hundreds of other boots.Spark was legitimate ....ouch you get my drift.

Hi Chap big apologies if I sounded a bit big headed there it probably read far harsher than i intended very sorry but you know what I ment and I knew what you mentI owe you a beer sir .very sorry best regards Simon.

[Theothertosspot]

Laptops Jesus Christ I'm back down the boozer for a couple more pint's of mild ..............that's got top be the end

I say chap do you really believe anyones gonna really play Tommy Hunt on ( if you are refering to spark records) Jesus I'm really gonna get pissed now my man.Seriously hands up who's played that one out? could have gone for Yvonne Vernee on Groovy Grooves mate regards ect.

At he time of release of his version he was doing the rounds, as were a lot of other artists, and appeared at Wigan, and he obviously sang this tune because of the Northern connection (and there was little chance of Roy Hamilton appearing) so whether or not spark records was legitimate, couldn't this be considered as bad as a boot because it was a means of supplying demand, remember Wigans Ovation, etc. Makes you think!!!!!

TOTP

[Guest giant]

Historically records were dropped once they had been booted.Most of the boots were made in the seventies and a lot of our treasured artists were still alive and if their records were reissued legitimately they would have received income.The money made from the bootlegs lined criminal pockets when it could have lined the artists pockets.Simple .Buying a boot then was filling criminal coffers and not the artists pockets.Who was buying them....mostly young kids desperate for sounds.Thirty plus years on.....thirty years of age/experience and we have those same artists (the ones that are alive) visiting these shores to experience our love for their music.All those advocating the playing of boots......how would you feel if say Tommy Hunt came up to the decks as you were playing your crackin up boot."Hey I didn't realise it was released on that, I never got any royalties from that"....mmmm "yeah Tommy keep the faith!!!".

Don't people have a sense of pride in their records/deejaying as well....it's like a master craftsman turning up with tools from Poundstretcher.

I wonder what the rare and the northern soul scene event guide would be like if there was a mass culling of cd/boots/carver gigs.Keeping the faith seems like empty rhetoric to some people and you can't even blame it on age.

If youre ovo only no matter what you do stick it on your flyers.....and give soulsource a plug as well.

very well said, WIGGYFLAT

[Epic]

Got another dilemma more on the "Modern Scene" than any other......................playing from a laptop or downloads a lot of it going on from what I see

Should that be in another thread ????

Julie

If it wasn't for downloads there would not be a "modern" scene (in it's true sense ie current releases) - many many tunes never see the light of day on vinyl or cd - fortunately OVO is not a consideration on this scene but original downloads - now you're talking !

[Wiggyflat]

At he time of release of his version he was doing the rounds, as were a lot of other artists, and appeared at Wigan, and he obviously sang this tune because of the Northern connection (and there was little chance of Roy Hamilton appearing) so whether or not spark records was legitimate, couldn't this be considered as bad as a boot because it was a means of supplying demand, remember Wigans Ovation, etc. Makes you think!!!!!

TOTP

And if anyone had a legitimate right to make money from the northern soul scene it is Tommy Hunt and not some pirate bootlegger getting rich on other peoples efforts.He signed a legitimate contract with Spark and released records to limited success.Disco Demand and Dave Mcaleer did the same and released legitimate product as did Grapevine. I received an unreleased take of Tony Gallas In Love from the man himself on the understanding it was for my own use....would i be keeping the faith if i pressed up a few hundred copies and made money by selling them and would you be keeping the faith by playing it.I think not.I'm sorry to use that term in 2011 but it has probably more resonance now than ever.

[Julie Moore]

If it wasn't for downloads there would not be a "modern" scene (in it's true sense ie current releases) - many many tunes never see the light of day on vinyl or cd - fortunately OVO is not a consideration on this scene but original downloads - now you're talking !

Yes Epic but a hell of a lot still do