Is Playing A Boot At A Venue Ever Acceptable

[Guest SteveJohnston]

would like to add dave vanner , smiggy and kev such to that list , kev now spends a fair bit of money on ov vynal , his past is behind him . not every venue in northants plays boots or pressings terry , the cracker has had its problems in the past with certain djs playing dodgy records a so called big name dj from derby , ( who conned his way in for a spot ) another from the peterborough area , 2 djs in the past 4 years . is it the promoters fault or the djs ?, hes had some good lads on with nice ov collections at the cracker he does try not like others around this area who could not give a toss. best nige

We were a guest of Kev & Karen at the last Cracker ariving at there home late Saturday afternoon, i had a chance to look though Kev's play box, playing a few & can guarantee nothing but OVO filled the box. Kev also comes across as being very passionate about how the Cracker is run putting in (like a lot of soul night promoters) lots of hard work to give us a quality night, long may it continue being an OVO venue imo.

Steve J

Edited October 8, 2011 by SteveJohnston

[Geeselad]

Basically, if the OVO situation has to be explained to you, you need, to buy more tunes, get out talk more to other punters, go out to events, anything other than be DJing at yer local handbag night! just my humble opinion, but all this justifying what should be patently bleeding obvious to anyone on actually on the scene, we dont constantly have to explain why old men wear ridiculous trousers on here do we? Its an essential part of heritage of the scene, except it.

[JOHNNYBETCHA]

Luckily most of the punters in the clubs ain't in this esoteric band of bigheads like you lot - ha ha! - just listen to yourselves - there's a real world out there - take part in it now and again and lose the elitist approach to life!

[Julie Moore]

Thought this thread was about "playing a boot at a venue " not a personal attack on Mr Such Just like to say 1 thing about mr Such .................."you do need to get some modern in your blood"

Sorry off-topic

[Guest gordon russell]

I don't know any of you so this is totally unbiased, but maybe Lifeline isn't his thing ? For example I love soul music and I went to the first Lifeline and being honest I didn't like it, in fact I could live next door to it and wouldn't go because I didn't like it.... that doesn't make him a bad person does it ?

dave....the fact that it,s not his thing is absolutely fine,but he,s never been there even once.....so it shows a lack of respect for the promoters to send flyers or allow flyers to be distributed at this venue a venue he is not interested in......if ya not interested in a venue for the music or the social........then why do you send ya flyers up there.......that,s all common decency......but hey i,ve got that completely wrong i suppose..big bad terry again

[Premium Stuff]

Errr - can someone explain why the so-called "Soul Police" is a bad thing? Isn't it actually a good thing to stop cr*p and counterfeit sh*t being played?

Richard

[Theothertosspot]

would like to add dave vanner , smiggy and kev such to that list , kev now spends a fair bit of money on ov vynal , his past is behind him . not every venue in northants plays boots or pressings terry , the cracker has had its problems in the past with certain djs playing dodgy records a so called big name dj from derby , ( who conned his way in for a spot ) another from the peterborough area , 2 djs in the past 4 years . is it the promoters fault or the djs ?, hes had some good lads on with nice ov collections at the cracker he does try not like others around this area who could not give a toss. best nige

We were a guest of Kev & Karen at the last Cracker ariving at there home late Saturday afternoon, i had a chance to look though Kev's play box, playing a few & can guarantee nothing but OVO filled the box. Kev also comes across as being very passionate about how the Cracker is run putting in (like a lot of soul night promoters) lots of hard work to give us a quality night, long may it continue being an OVO venue imo.

Steve J

Is your Al Williams on La Beat or Palmer (or was it Andy Williams you used to play?)

[JOHNNYBETCHA]

Errr - can someone explain why the so-called "Soul Police" is a bad thing? Isn't it actually a good thing to stop cr*p and counterfeit sh*t being played?

Richard

explain yourself - why would you willingly want anyone to police anything you enjoy? do the records sound any different? can't you dance to em? free love, live and let live - are they bad things?

[Guest SteveJohnston]

dave....the fact that it,s not his thing is absolutely fine,but he,s never been there even once.....so it shows a lack of respect for the promoters to send flyers or allow flyers to be distributed at this venue a venue he is not interested in......if ya not interested in a venue for the music or the social........then why do you send ya flyers up there.......that,s all common decency......but hey i,ve got that completely wrong i suppose..big bad terry again

Terry i see loads of flyers from soul nights, all-nighters & weekenders at the stute, I can guarantee lots of the promoters have never set foot in the place! i don't view it as lack of respect & as one of the promoters why should i? Infact i give anyone asking can they distrbute flyers for other nights a positve yes to do so, I sure dont vet the flyers to make sure the promoted venue is ovo!

Steve J

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Is your Al Williams on La Beat or Palmer (or was it Andy Williams you used to play?)

...........I leave Andy Williams & the like to others!!! Are you at the Stute this coming week? or are you staying "invisible"

[Theothertosspot]

...........I leave Andy Williams & the like to others!!! Are you at the Stute this coming week? or are you staying "invisible"

You know what the Scarlet One is like

[Guest giant]

what happens if you pay your money expecting to hear originals? You then get a DJ playing boots? Does the promoter reimburse monies if asked? The promoters should state their stance then punters can make the choice then, solves all the arguing doesn't it.

Why though does a promoter feel the need to book a DJ who plays boots? This is something I can't understand. There are 100's out here with the real deal so no need what so ever to go down the path of boots even at local soul nights. Many happy to DJ for very little by the way of a fee.

fully agree with you, well said

[Guest giant]

explain yourself - why would you willingly want anyone to police anything you enjoy? do the records sound any different? can't you dance to em? free love, live and let live - are they bad things?

you obviously don't go to rare soul events or niters, its always nice to see the real deal on the decks.

[Mark S]

The idea of a bootleg is to decieve , by playing bootlegs the punters are being decieved and treated with contempt , its not about the soul police but about honesty and integrity.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Mark S

[Chalky]

I don't know why this is being split once again into the rare soul night /nighter DJ and the oldies only local DJ. DJ's across the scene play boots. Admittedly there is more focus on your all-nighter DJ so the playing of boots isn't as prevalent as some local soul nights but it has and does happen. I also know many DJ's who only venture locally but have the utmost integrity and stick strictly to the OVO only policy.

[Pete S]

A lot of this depends on the venue. If I was asked to dj at the local working mens club, I know it's going to be mainly people out to have a drink and a laugh, a social thing more than anything else, I'd just take a box of old favourites and not be bothered what labels they were on because nobody is interested. On the other hand, let's say I was offered a spot at Kings Hall, I wouldn't play anything except original vinyl out of respect for the organisers, the punters, and myself. So I suppose the answer to the original question is that it depends on the circumstances.

[Raremusicdirect]

"So off I went to Wigan (Casino).................They were playing an awful lot of pressings.................Stuff out on Jay Boy, etc.........I thought this is crap. The Mecca has the best rarities, which to be fair, it did at the time. " [september 1973]

Paul McKenna - Nightshift

So this first hand account (if accurate) indicates pressings have always been played.

As times change, perhaps the OVO position has been become more honed of late ? And times do change

[Winnie :-)]

A lot of this depends on the venue. If I was asked to dj at the local working mens club, I know it's going to be mainly people out to have a drink and a laugh, a social thing more than anything else, I'd just take a box of old favourites and not be bothered what labels they were on because nobody is interested. On the other hand, let's say I was offered a spot at Kings Hall, I wouldn't play anything except original vinyl out of respect for the organisers, the punters, and myself. So I suppose the answer to the original question is that it depends on the circumstances.

seems a fairly common sense approach

[Epic]

Paul McKenna - Nightshift

Not to be confused with

Pete Mckenna - Hypnotist

[Simsy]

Sorry if this has been a topic before

How sorry?

Down the end of my road pub function gig, free to get in - pressings fine, but still a bit wiffy & chancerish.

Paying to get in = OVO, or 50 lashings from the soul police.

[Chalky]

"So off I went to Wigan (Casino).................They were playing an awful lot of pressings.................Stuff out on Jay Boy, etc.........I thought this is crap. The Mecca has the best rarities, which to be fair, it did at the time. " [september 1973]

Paul McKenna - Nightshift

So this first hand account (if accurate) indicates pressings have always been played.

As times change, perhaps the OVO position has been become more honed of late ? And times do change

As I said in another topic the arguments you see on Soul Source have always been talked about. You simply didn't have everyone sat at a keyboard 24/7. The only medium you had to vent your anger, feelings and opinions were the magazines of the day, B&S, Black Echoes and the fanzines that kicked about. If they were fortnightly or monthly then the argument would probably have been irrelevant by the time your letter printed. Oldies vs. newies, boots vs. pressings, clashing, all the politics you see today, they've always been there.

[Guest]

If you have got originals just play em to me some people on the soul scene like to brag about how many originals they have etc and massage there big ego. If you've got em you've got em if you aint you aint. you know what they say them that talk about it !

[Chalky]

If you have got originals just play em to me some people on the soul scene like to brag about how many originals they have etc and massage there big ego. If you've got em you've got em if you aint you aint. you know what they say them that talk about it !

no what do they say?

I've never seen anyone bragging or massaging their so called egos just cause they are playing an original. Another one of those cop out statements.

[Guest]

no what do they say?

I've never seen anyone bragging or massaging their so called egos just cause they are playing an original. Another one of those cop out statements.

Why is it a cop out statement ??

Edited October 9, 2011 by Guest

[Chalky]

Why is it a cop out statement ??

it's one of those comments dragged out when someone can't get over a reasonable argument in a debate.

Like I said I've never seen anyone bragging to someone else they have an original or shouted over the mic "c'mon look at this original, cost me a fortune", just to massage their supposedly inflated ego.

[Guest]

it's one of those comments dragged out when someone can't get over a reasonable argument in a debate.

Like I said I've never seen anyone bragging to someone else they have an original or shouted over the mic "c'mon look at this original, cost me a fortune", just to massage their supposedly inflated ego.

Fair enough !

[Chalky]

post temp unapproved

[Jem Britttin]

Funny thing is though Kev if you had abided by that opinion a few years ago you probably wouldnt be a dj/promotor now...cos in the first few years of the "cracker" you played and owned mainly "boots" now you are "V.C.Correct" maybe you should start a self help group for people who play or feel they might want to dj with boots, so they can become vinyl cool as well...atb

Agreed Jem. Certainly did used to play off boots, and have and do freely admit the fact. As Im sure a very high percentage of people have. That was then though and I was guided in the correct direction. I was asnswering the initial post as I was told when I asked the same question of people not long after starting the Cream Cracker.

Kev

So what you are saying then is ...do as I say, not as I do/did... a bit like the reformed smoker syndrome ? Kev in a short space of time you have adopted a new set of values which is fine, but the fact of the matter is that you built the cracker playing boots all be it naively you may say, The point I am making is ....lets say another person like you starts a local soulnight now and plays a few boots but is heart is in the right place...would it be fair in your eyes to adopt the zero tollerance stance you now take.

Before anyone jumps on the" having a go at Kev " thing ....for the record despite differences we may have cos He listens to much to gossip . I have in the past put Kev on to records etc (ovo) . He will be the first to admit that his knowledge of the music is limited and where i could I have tried to point Him in the right direction and share information about records (can I have the majestees back Kev?).

Just seems that if we are gonna persecute people people that harshly we may throw out the baby with the bath water as the saying may go.

[Pete S]

"So off I went to Wigan (Casino).................They were playing an awful lot of pressings.................Stuff out on Jay Boy, etc.........I thought this is crap. The Mecca has the best rarities, which to be fair, it did at the time. " [september 1973]

Paul McKenna - Nightshift

So this first hand account (if accurate) indicates pressings have always been played.

As times change, perhaps the OVO position has been become more honed of late ? And times do change

And if you believe anything in that book, you'll believe anything

[Raremusicdirect]

And if you believe anything in that book, you'll believe anything

Besides the rest of the book Pete, do you think that quoted content is true ?

[Winnie :-)]

it's one of those comments dragged out when someone can't get over a reasonable argument in a debate.

Like I said I've never seen anyone bragging to someone else they have an original or shouted over the mic "c'mon look at this original, cost me a fortune", just to massage their supposedly inflated ego.

There's a bloke who used to be a member on here, talked about himself occasionally, might have mentioned his massive contribution to the northern scene, can't remember his name at the moment........... ;)

[Chalky]

off topic image removed

[Chalky]

There's a bloke who used to be a member on here, talked about himself occasionally, might have mentioned his massive contribution to the northern scene, can't remember his name at the moment........... ;)

Think I can guess who you mean

[Pete S]

Besides the rest of the book Pete, do you think that quoted content is true ?

No, not in the slightest. Unless you include SS custom productions of a year later. If you were in M's, then yes. But I wasn't there in 73 and I doubt the author was either, and if he was, I doubt he was climbing on the stage and keeping an eye on the decks all night.

[Pete S]

it's one of those comments dragged out when someone can't get over a reasonable argument in a debate.

Like I said I've never seen anyone bragging to someone else they have an original or shouted over the mic "c'mon look at this original, cost me a fortune", just to massage their supposedly inflated ego.

Dave Rimmer playing the Vondells at Hednesford and announcing "Pete Smith this is what an original sounds like" as I'd dared to play a dub of it a few weeks earlier.

[Mark Bicknell]

Seems to be a little goal post moving here to cover all sides of the debate, either it's right, wrong or it don't matter make your minds up, way back when I started DJ'ing you firstly had to earn your stripes to even get behind a set of decks in the first place as it was almost a closed shop situation fueled by collectors and record dealers, now it seems to be an open house free for all with no rules at all, the very fabric of this scene and the fundimental important factor is it's based on rare soul records, hard to find not often seen and without the authentic tunes in the first palce you would have no scene, nothing to play, nothing to dance to and nothing to bootleg.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest]

...........I leave Andy Williams & the like to others!!! Are you at the Stute this coming week? or are you staying "invisible"

thats it Steve, get a plug in for the Stute!

[KevH]

Maybe playing boots is all about feeling cheated.From a punters point of view.You either feel cheated,or you don't.Or you don't care.

Seems that most who dont care,are more interested in dancing,and nothing else.

Take away the dancing,the clothing ranges,the market sales in the foyers...and what you left with??.

You're left with people who have travelled to collect,met the actual people involved in the scene we love,chronicled and catalogued the music we love,crate dug,bought and sold at venues,stuck their necks out to spin the vinyl,opened and promoted venues.People who are proud to own an original copy of a record that's part of our "history in the making".Lots of folks own,or have owned boots.Nothing wrong with that.But if you're going to represent the Scene,by getting behind the decks,do it justice and play ovo.

[Wrongcrowd]

Dave Rimmer playing the Vondells at Hednesford and announcing "Pete Smith this is what an original sounds like" as I'd dared to play a dub of it a few weeks earlier.

So then Pete, was Hendesford a Working Mens Club do, where it didn't matter that you'd played a bootleg, ooops, soory a dub, to your mates ?

Sounds to me like you say one thing, but practice something different.

Good on Dave for putting your 'dub' playing in it's place

Edited October 9, 2011 by Wrongcrowd

[Julie Moore]

Maybe playing boots is all about feeling cheated.From a punters point of view.You either feel cheated,or you don't.Or you don't care.

Seems that most who dont care,are more interested in dancing,and nothing else.

Take away the dancing,the clothing ranges,the market sales in the foyers...and what you left with??.

You're left with people who have travelled to collect,met the actual people involved in the scene we love,chronicled and catalogued the music we love,crate dug,bought and sold at venues,stuck their necks out to spin the vinyl,opened and promoted venues.People who are proud to own an original copy of a record that's part of our "history in the making".Lots of folks own,or have owned boots.Nothing wrong with that.But if you're going to represent the Scene,by getting behind the decks,do it justice and play ovo.

Well said Kev

Hope your well

From the person you once called a handbagger and survived to live another day

Julie

Edited October 9, 2011 by Julie Moore

[KevH]

Well said Kev

Hope your well

From the person you once called a handbagger and survived to live another day

Julie

I'm well thanks...

Didn't see Kev stood with you when i said that.. .

[Winnie :-)]

Maybe playing boots is all about feeling cheated.From a punters point of view.You either feel cheated,or you don't.Or you don't care.

Seems that most who dont care,are more interested in dancing,and nothing else.

Take away the dancing,the clothing ranges,the market sales in the foyers...and what you left with??.

You're left with people who have travelled to collect,met the actual people involved in the scene we love,chronicled and catalogued the music we love,crate dug,bought and sold at venues,stuck their necks out to spin the vinyl,opened and promoted venues.People who are proud to own an original copy of a record that's part of our "history in the making".Lots of folks own,or have owned boots.Nothing wrong with that.But if you're going to represent the Scene,by getting behind the decks,do it justice and play ovo.

I'd say that's about the size of it, and if you leave aside the 'split on the scene', then it's the majority viewpoint? When we were doing the maths earlier in this thread (maybe another one, can't remember) it was estimated around 20000 people active on the scene (bit high)? But how many of those would trek up to the decks to check whether it was an original being played, or just get on with dancing/chatting/drinking?

[Russ Vickers]

I have a very good friend who during one of thier promotions realised that one of the regular DJ's was playing a fair proportion of boots n carvers during his set. It states very clearly on the club blurb that the event is original vinyl. My friend went to the decks, asked the DJ in the middle of his set to make that his last record & was politely asked to leave, he has never returned. No fuss, punters were generally blissfully unaware.......but in my opinion this was the correct cause of action.

Best Russ

[KevH]

I'd say that's about the size of it, and if you leave aside the 'split on the scene', then it's the majority viewpoint? When we were doing the maths earlier in this thread (maybe another one, can't remember) it was estimated around 20000 people active on the scene (bit high)? But how many of those would trek up to the decks to check whether it was an original being played, or just get on with dancing/chatting/drinking?

That was my maths Winnie,based on estimated info given (Promoters thread).Meant to be tongue in cheek figures.

How many would trek up to the decks? Chinstrokers night - 10%.?.The others would assume it was ovo?

Oldies night - 1%.? The others probably dont care.?

Edited October 9, 2011 by KevH

[Guest]

it's one of those comments dragged out when someone can't get over a reasonable argument in a debate.

Like I said I've never seen anyone bragging to someone else they have an original or shouted over the mic "c'mon look at this original, cost me a fortune", just to massage their supposedly inflated ego.

kinda like "you either get it or you dont" ? Those comments are ok and dont need a 'reasonable argument' ?

I persoally dont give two hoots however, I was asked to DJ at a fairly big and well adertised evernt 2 years ago and spoke to the promotor. I said I would oly play orig for the sake of HIS reputation. On the day of the event, thats what I did ..... but bootlegs did get played....one was even announced as a boot ...the floor got packed to it.

Here's a question that I hope doesn't wander too far from the thread. I have done a couple of internet radio shows and will be doing another in the new year. Both shows I played orig only (with the exception of an LP only track that is burnt to carver). What is the opinion of playing boots on a radio show?

[Jem Britttin]

would like to add dave vanner , smiggy and kev such to that list , kev now spends a fair bit of money on ov vynal , his past is behind him .

not every venue in northants plays boots or pressings terry , the cracker has had its problems in the past with certain djs playing dodgy records

a so called big name dj from derby , ( who conned his way in for a spot ) another from the peterborough area , 2 djs in the past 4 years .

is it the promoters fault or the djs ?, hes had some good lads on with nice ov collections at the cracker he does try not like others around this area who could not give a toss. best nige

Thing is Nidge a few of those names mentioned DJd at the last Wellingboro Alldayer where the promoter dosent have a problem with one of His djs at least openly playing boots of just about everything. Dont know who you are referring to ref others in the area but i guarantee as a percentage more ovo has been played at the Pembo than the cracker and yet Kev will dj at the Alldayer but has not set foot in the Pembo for years which is on His doorstep and has featured some really good djs with some of the best collections in the country...seems to be some double standards going on here?

Edited October 9, 2011 by gogopro

[Winnie :-)]

That was my maths Winnie,based on estimated info given (Promoters thread).Meant to be tongue in cheek figures.

How many would trek up to the decks? Chinstrokers night - 10%.? Oldies night - 1%.?

Wasn't dissing the maths Kev, agree with you the original estimate was a touch fanciful So there's even more suspicion at at chinstroker's night regarding if it's OVO being played? Or are you just talking about going up to the decks out of interest?

[Russ Vickers]

oooops

Edited October 9, 2011 by Russ Vickers

[Russ Vickers]

kinda like "you either get it or you dont" ? Those comments are ok and dont need a 'reasonable argument' ?

I persoally dont give two hoots however, I was asked to DJ at a fairly big and well adertised evernt 2 years ago and spoke to the promotor. I said I would oly play orig for the sake of HIS reputation. On the day of the event, thats what I did ..... but bootlegs did get played....one was even announced as a boot ...the floor got packed to it.

Here's a question that I hope doesn't wander too far from the thread. I have done a couple of internet radio shows and will be doing another in the new year. Both shows I played orig only (with the exception of an LP only track that is burnt to carver). What is the opinion of playing boots on a radio show?

If its radio IMO you'd be better off playing from MP3 or CD, no need to play a low fi vinyl bootleg. I think if you are 'show casing' from your collection then I would 'burn' my stuff to CD beforehand. Most radio studios are only set up for these formats anyway.

Best Russ

Wasn't dissing the maths Kev, agree with you the original estimate was a touch fanciful So there's even more suspicion at at chinstroker's night regarding if it's OVO being played? Or are you just talking about going up to the decks out of interest?

Could you explain to me what a 'Chin Strokers' do is please, as I'm not sure I've ever seen these advertised or are you one again making inflamatory comments in the passive aggressive way we have come to know you for.........

Best Russ

[Winnie :-)]

Could you explain to me what a 'Chin Strokers' do is please, as I'm not sure I've ever seen these advertised or are you one again making inflamatory comments in the passive aggressive way we have come to know you for.........

Best Russ

I don't know Russ, Kev used the phrase in the post I replied to, (post 194) maybe you want to ask him, or accuse him of making inflammatory remarks in the passive aggressive manner I've become known for?