Primers On Hale

[Guest]

Now would I be wrong in assuming that this is a white group pop/garage band from the west coast?

Any background on this anyone, I've known about it for a few years, but when was it first played and where etc..

[Chalky]

Butch first to play it I think, he acquired origianl studio acetate of owner. Three other copies I know of, Kitch, Kenny Burrell and Tim Brown.

[Sebastian]

According to the "LA's Silver Soul" comp on Kent... the group was also known as The Vines (on Sutter) and Ike & The Vines. They were three male and two female singers. The main songwriter was known as Saint Coombs and also sang background. There is no picture of them in the booklet. Not a garage rock outfit in any case though. Really like the Everly Brothers sound-a-like vocal harmonies on "How Does It Grab You".

[Ted Massey]

Butch first to play it I think, he acquired origianl studio acetate of owner. Three other copies I know of, Kitch, Kenny Burrell and Tim Brown.

Hi Chalky

have you and MP3

best Ted

[Ady Potts]

I sat & talked with Lee Silver (the producer/label owner) in length about this. He told me they were a black 5 piece group from San Diego.

[Pete S]

Craig Moerer had this on his site, set sale price - the same week he had Nabay and several other really rare things

[Russ Vickers]

I sat & talked with Lee Silver (the producer/label owner) in length about this. He told me they were a black 5 piece group from San Diego.

I had a worrying conversation with a person with a connection to Lee about a year ago who told me he could get me an original studio acetate of the Primers, I m was interested, but when I diplomatically mentioned how to tell the difference between a genuinely old acetate & a newly cut one, I never heard from the guy again .

Just a word of caution.

Russ

[Chalky]

Craig Moerer had this on his site, set sale price - the same week he had Nabay and several other really rare things

out of interest what was the price Pete?

Edited November 5, 2005 by chalky

[Mike]

According to the "LA's Silver Soul" comp on Kent... the group was also known as The Vines (on Sutter) and Ike & The Vines. They were three male and two female singers. The main songwriter was known as Saint Coombs and also sang background. There is no picture of them in the booklet. Not a garage rock outfit in any case though. Really like the Everly Brothers sound-a-like vocal harmonies on "How Does It Grab You".

the ike and vines 45 - the walk (? or similar) is worth a listen

Edited November 5, 2005 by mike-

[Guest]

Butch first to play it I think, he acquired origianl studio acetate of owner. Three other copies I know of, Kitch, Kenny Burrell and Tim Brown.

Sam plays it and possibly Dean Anderson?

[Guest]

Butch first to play it I think, he acquired origianl studio acetate of owner. Three other copies I know of, Kitch, Kenny Burrell and Tim Brown.

This is probably a silly question but I will ask anyway and hope someone answers

So if Butch has the original acetate, are the other people playing acetates too, or have copies of the actual record been found, I guess they must as Pottsy has it as an avatar and if so, how many copies are there ?

[Chalky]

This is probably a silly question but I will ask anyway and hope someone answers

So if Butch has the original acetate, are the other people playing acetates too, or have copies of the actual record been found, I guess they must as Pottsy has it as an avatar and if so, how many copies are there ?

The others are actual records...Hale is the label. Only a handful....4 mentioned maybe couple more????? who they are with not sure. Butch seems to think his is slightly differnet take.

[Ady Potts]

This is probably a silly question but I will ask anyway and hope someone answers

So if Butch has the original acetate, are the other people playing acetates too, or have copies of the actual record been found, I guess they must as Pottsy has it as an avatar and if so, how many copies are there ?

Hello Karen, it's not a silly question at all, i'll try & throw a little light on thing's.

Way back when that first acetate was sold, i got the vinyl from a local L.A. dealer (the guy that had just sold the acetate) that had just found Lee Silver & purchased it from him, at this stage it was an unknown sound. As i was collecting L.A. labels i decided to keep it. Shortly after i got the record i tracked Lee down & would go round to his apartment, he had box loads of records on certain titles still at that time, but he didn't have another Primers. Then Lee released a c.d. with the Primers on, which he took from a master tape. That c.d. take is a slightly different one to the vinyl. I know he didn't have another copy of the Primers as when he realised i had just purchased his copy, he tried to buy it back off me, as he'd been approached by someone that had just heard his c.d. & said they would pay him a lot of money for a copy on vinyl.

At this time i knew of 2 other copies, one got sold to Kytch, then some time later the other got sold to Tim Brown.

pottsy.

p.s.

i've still got my copy.

[Guest]

The others are actual records...Hale is the label. Only a handful....4 mentioned maybe couple more????? who they are with not sure. Butch seems to think his is slightly differnet take.

Hello Karen, it's not a silly question at all, i'll try & throw a little light on thing's.

Way back when that first acetate was sold, i got the vinyl from a local L.A. dealer (the guy that had just sold the acetate) that had just found Lee Silver & purchased it from him, at this stage it was an unknown sound. As i was collecting L.A. labels i decided to keep it. Shortly after i got the record i tracked Lee down & would go round to his apartment, he had box loads of records on certain titles still at that time, but he didn't have another Primers. Then Lee released a c.d. with the Primers on, which he took from a master tape. That c.d. take is a slightly different one to the vinyl. I know he didn't have another copy of the Primers as when he realised i had just purchased his copy, he tried to buy it back off me, as he'd been approached by someone that had just heard his c.d. & said they would pay him a lot of money for a copy on vinyl.

At this time i knew of 2 other copies, one got sold to Kytch, then some time later the other got sold to Tim Brown.

pottsy.

p.s.

i've still got my copy.

Thanks Chalky and Pottsy, I think Sam must play it off an acetate as I once asked him to play it and he said it was on acetate and he needed to find it in his records.

I will have to listen carefully next time Butch plays it to see if i can spot the difference.

Yet another record I like but have cat in hells chance of ever owning

Edited November 5, 2005 by KarenC

[Ady Potts]

Yet another record I like but have cat in hells chance of ever owning

Get an acetate cut, or get vinyl carvers to cut you one, just as good. I dont like playing mine, as it's still mint & it's made out of Styrene. That's the only problem collecting west coast stuff, so much of it's on Styrene.

pottsy

[Guest]

Get an acetate cut, or get vinyl carvers to cut you one, just as good. I dont like playing mine, as it's still mint & it's made out of Styrene. That's the only problem collecting west coast stuff, so much of it's on Styrene.

pottsy

Ah but if I did that I wouldn't be able to play it out

[Ady Potts]

Ah but if I did that I wouldn't be able to play it out

Why? If it's o.k. for a big name d.j. to play it off an acetate, why's it not o.k. for you to do the same?

[Guest]

Why? If it's o.k. for a big name d.j. to play it off an acetate, why's it not o.k. for you to do the same?

Good question Pottsy I guess people like you that actually own the record it's ok to play an acetate as you have the viynl but don't want to spoil it, that I think is understandable.

As to others who maybe play it but don't own it ( with any record not just this one ) it's one rule for the Big names and another for us plebs LOL now I will wait to be told off by the soul police

[Chalky]

Why? If it's o.k. for a big name d.j. to play it off an acetate, why's it not o.k. for you to do the same?

cause Butch's is the original studio acetate and not a cut/emi disc.....it's genuine if you like you should know that Ady.

[Simon T]

Hi Chalky

have you and MP3

best Ted

Ted, I think this is it

[Ady Potts]

cause Butch's is the original studio acetate and not a cut/emi disc.....it's genuine if you like you should know that Ady.

No you misunderstood what i'm saying Chalky, i'm not questioning if Butch's acetate is original or not, or Sam's. What i'm saying is, Karen obviously likes the record, she's not going to shell out a couple of thousand dollars on an original, so why can't she play it off a vinyl carvers cut or an acetate for goodness sake? Has this scene gone so far up it's own arse that unless you are one of the fortunate few to own an original you shouldn't play it? I wouldn't mind her doing it, & i own an original, i think it would be nice to hear it out more, & the only way that'll happen is if more people have access to it. So unless more copies of this record show up, what's the option?

pottsy

[Guest]

It's definately a hard one this.

One the one hand I think the scene has always been about certain people only having certain records and having to travel to hear those sounds play, which I do.

However, there are many others who do not and just stick to local do's. The Primers is such a good record and there are so many people that won't get a chance to hear it and dance to it because it is so rare.I always smile to myself when someone plays Frank Wilson because you know it isn't being played off original ( in most cases) but whatever people say about it being played out, loads of people love it and how many would ever have heard it if some people didnt play it on re issue? Some would say thats a good thing as it's now overplayed but thats another argument.

[Guest Baz]

Its a good point, but I can hear the soul police coming!

Ello ello whats all this then

Karen there is a simple way of accuireing said record........turn up round Ady's with a handfull of green sleves he'll be so caught up with sniffing them, he wont notice you swipe it from under his nose(no pun intended)

[Ady Potts]

Ello ello whats all this then

Karen there is a simple way of accuireing said record........turn up round Ady's with a handfull of green sleves he'll be so caught up with sniffing them, he wont notice you swipe it from under his nose(no pun intended)

mmmm....green sleeves I'm a bit of a perve when it comes to old green sleeves, THAT SMELL, sorry, that smell, ooph. I can't understand why they don't arouse other people the way they do me surely i can't be all alone.

[Pete S]

No you misunderstood what i'm saying Chalky, i'm not questioning if Butch's acetate is original or not, or Sam's. What i'm saying is, Karen obviously likes the record, she's not going to shell out a couple of thousand dollars on an original, so why can't she play it off a vinyl carvers cut or an acetate for goodness sake? Has this scene gone so far up it's own arse that unless you are one of the fortunate few to own an original you shouldn't play it? I wouldn't mind her doing it, & i own an original, i think it would be nice to hear it out more, & the only way that'll happen is if more people have access to it. So unless more copies of this record show up, what's the option?

pottsy

God, at last someone talking a bit of sense. No wonder 'outsiders' think the Northern scene is so elitist when only x amount of people are allowed to play a record.

[Guest Dan]

God, at last someone talking a bit of sense. No wonder 'outsiders' think the Northern scene is so elitist when only x amount of people are allowed to play a record.

i know this is a tired old argument, though it's still a fun one to have from time to time, but i think:

the thing that makes the northern scene different from most others is the obsession with originality and rarity (not over quality, but these are important factors). if people think this is 'elitist', too bad - either accept it, cos that's the way it is and always has been, or go and listen to something else.

collecting and playing original records has been what has driven the whole thing forward; if everyone could play everything on any format imagine the staleness: why bother to play different tunes (if you can't afford the big ones) when you can pay 200 quid for a sets-worth of bootlegged monsters?

in fact, why not get rid of djs altogether - why not have focus groups sitting round and deciding what records we should hear and then hooking up 8 hours of mp3s?

if you haven't got something on original vinyl, here's a radical idea: PLAY SOMETHING ELSE YOU HAVE GOT ON ORIGINAL VINYL!

or here's another piece of leftfield lunacy: don't bother trying to be a dj!

exceptions: play what you want if it's free to get in and play it of an acetate if you have the real thing but want to protect your vinyl/styrene.

disclaimer: not having a pop at karen or pete or anyone, do what you want, this is only my opinion!

dan

[Guest ShaneH]

bang on dan

i wanna walk on the moon but life's a bitch

Shane

[Pete S]

Here's another suggestion: get a life

[Guest]

Well thats us firmly put in our places, thanks Dan and Shane

I'm off back under my stone now

[Guest Dan]

Here's another suggestion: get a life

says you, living in wolverhampton!

i couldn't give a monkeys what people do pete - you can get them all cut onto flexi-discs or tape over old bow-wow-wow cassettes for all i care, it would just be a different (and worse and less interesting) scene that's all

[Guest Dan]

Well thats us firmly put in our places, thanks Dan and Shane

I'm off back under my stone now

hey karen, i'm not putting anyone in their place - how could i? i'm a total nobody, your view is just as valid as mine, you can do whatever you want and good luck to you, it's a free society (just about).

just putting a point of view, that's all

dan

[Pete S]

says you, living in wolverhampton!

I have a W'ton postcode but I actually live here, away from the peasants (not in the locks)

[Guest Dan]

I have a W'ton postcode but I actually live here, away from the peasants (not in the locks)

do you live under that bridge pete?

what's your line on billy goats gruff trip-trotting over it to get to the other side?

actually it looks very nice there, i love the old canals personally. sorry, going a bit off topic.

[Guest ShaneH]

This argument will go on for years.

however, why do people want to change the scene as we know it. its roots is in finding obscure vinyl and playing to a crowd that want something different.

i dont think the scene would have been what it is today if all the DJ's had to do was to pop into a Virgin Megastore, spend £30 and then drive to the nearest allnighter and do a hour set.

the scene is not about making things easy. the records are hard to come by, the venues are miles away, bed-time is not til the early hours of the morning and the come-down is horrific at times. however, we love it and why do we want to change it?

all this talk of how it should be is ridiculous. I am loving it and i wouldnt change it for the world.

Shane

[Guest Dan]

This argument will go on for years.

however, why do people want to change the scene as we know it. its roots is in finding obscure vinyl and playing to a crowd that want something different.

i dont think the scene would have been what it is today if all the DJ's had to do was to pop into a Virgin Megastore, spend £30 and then drive to the nearest allnighter and do a hour set.

the scene is not about making things easy. the records are hard to come by, the venues are miles away, bed-time is not til the early hours of the morning and the come-down is horrific at times. however, we love it and why do we want to change it?

all this talk of how it should be is ridiculous. I am loving it and i wouldnt change it for the world.

Shane

spot on, shane

thing where pete says 'no wonder people think the northern soul scene is elitist' made me smile: it bloody is elitist and that's why it's so great.

it's not elitist in the sense that it excludes any class of people but it is elitist in the sense that it demands a bit more of its adherents than, say, the billy joel scene.

i never subscribe to the 'it's a way of life' stuff cos it isn't to me, but it IS more than just music which is what you reduce it to if you adopt a 'now that's what i call northern soul vol 74' approach to the thing.

Edited November 7, 2005 by Dan

[Pete S]

if you adopt a 'now that's what i call northern soul vol 74'

Excuse me! Thats one of my favourite cd's.

[Sebastian]

BACK ON TOPIC,... Are they a black or white group??? Anyone know ??? What the flip like, that might give it away.

As Pottsy wrote above: "I sat & talked with Lee Silver (the producer/label owner) in length about this. He told me they were a black 5 piece group from San Diego."

[Guest Dan]

BACK ON TOPIC,... Are they a black or white group??? Anyone know ??? What the flip like, that might give it away.

BACK ON TOPIC read the thread andy

Excuse me! Thats one of my favourite cd's.

i always preferred vol 72 with that unissued alt take of under my thumb pete

[Guest in town Mikey]

i always preferred vol 72 with that unissued alt take of under my thumb pete

Is that the cover by Tony Robinson of Baldric and Time Team fame?

The pete under his thumb comes from uncovering 'soultown man'. At first they thought they's discovered a coffee table made from human bones. Then one twigged it was a fella preserved in the perfect 'backdrop' pose.

It was found in a bog just outside Stoke, and was preserved in almost pristine form thanks to barm cakes and tatties slowing down the ageing process. (That isnt to say he was buried in that stuff, just he ate loads and was a fat bast ard)

[Guest Dan]

Is that the cover by Tony Robinson of Baldric and Time Team fame?

The pete under his thumb comes from uncovering 'soultown man'. At first they thought they's discovered a coffee table made from human bones. Then one twigged it was a fella preserved in the perfect 'backdrop' pose.

It was found in a bog just outside Stoke, and was preserved in almost pristine form thanks to barm cakes and tatties slowing down the ageing process. (That isnt to say he was buried in that stuff, just he ate loads and was a fat bast ard)

pmsl michael

[SteveM]

bang on dan

i wanna walk on the moon but life's a bitch

Shane

You met Niel Armstrong though, didn't you ?

[Ady Potts]

What the flip like, that might give it away.

It's pooh, but it's black pooh.

[soulmac]

collecting and playing original records has been what has driven the whole thing forward; if everyone could play everything on any format imagine the staleness: why bother to play different tunes (if you can't afford the big ones) when you can pay 200 quid for a sets-worth of bootlegged monsters?

in fact, why not get rid of djs altogether - why not have focus groups sitting round and deciding what records we should hear and then hooking up 8 hours of mp3s?

if you haven't got something on original vinyl, here's a radical idea: PLAY SOMETHING ELSE YOU HAVE GOT ON ORIGINAL VINYL!

or here's another piece of leftfield lunacy: don't bother trying to be a dj!

Sepia, Tubbs, Gasher are you thinking what I'm thinking Shouldn't it be 300 quid

soulmac.

[sepia]

WELL SOULMAC

U MITE HAVE 2 ASK ELSEWHERE 4 THAT ANSWER.U,ME,TUBS & GASHER WOULDNT NO WHERE 2 START,2 PRICE A BOOTLEG SPOT.AND NEVER WILL.I HEARD ON THE GRAPEVINE(NOT THE LABEL)THAT 300 MITE B THE GOIN RATE.

[Tubbs]

WELL SOULMAC

U MITE HAVE 2 ASK ELSEWHERE 4 THAT ANSWER.U,ME,TUBS & GASHER WOULDNT NO WHERE 2 START,2 PRICE A BOOTLEG SPOT.AND NEVER WILL.I HEARD ON THE GRAPEVINE(NOT THE LABEL)THAT 300 MITE B THE GOIN RATE.

The person in question has obviously been had then .He's paid £300 for that privelege and he's only charging £12 to get into his allnighter thats far too cheap when he's just splashed out £300 for his spot of bootlegs. I'd be charging at least £20

[Guest rachel]

Could we stay vaguely on topic here as most people won't know what you're on about - cheers

[Tubbs]

Could we stay vaguely on topic here as most people won't know what you're on about - cheers

Ok I'll keep it vaguely on topic. You def won't hear the Primers at the allnighter mentioned above. as it hasn't been bootlegged yet

Edited November 8, 2005 by tubbs

[Gasher]

NICE ONE MATE