Soul Records Down In Price? Non Soul Up In Price?

[Ernie Andrews]

Just came across this On ebay is the item number 260857651148.

I know its not soul and the question is are soul records values on their way down and rarities like this on their way up?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sex-Pistols-God-Save-Queen-Original-1977-A-M-7-PROMO-BOX-/260857651148

[Guest MrC]

The promo stuff for those 1st couple of Pistols singles have always been worth a lot.

You only have to look round any record fair to see that all types of music have their collectors and big money rarities.

[George G]

The Sex Pistols record is about the worst price barometer you can use. The buyers for this are a completely different group of people from the typical record collector audience.

There is no question that prices for rare and great records in their genres is going up. I'm talking about garage, psych, and rockabilly. Rare vocal group/doowop records are also going up. Some the garage and rockabilly prices are up because of club play and DJ demand, but it also seems that newer 'homebody' collectors with money to spend are in it big time.

I wouldn't say that soul records are on their way down. I think it depends on the record. Deep and sweet soul seems to be doing OK. The issue is that the records need to be rare and good, those will continue to rise in price. A lot of the standard Northern soul records that are not appealing to people outside of the scene (the more polished 'pop' style ones) will probably continue to drop.

[NEV]

Just came across this On ebay is the item number 260857651148.

I know its not soul and the question is are soul records values on their way down and rarities like this on their way up?

https://www.ebay.co.u...X-/260857651148

Steve....I don't know much about punk records but i do know this one and can tell you for sure that ,the reason this is expensive is ..when they were 1st issued on the A&M there was a bust up with the record company and all copies were quickly withdrawn from sale...obviously as you can guess ..copies were sold before the withdrawal and are highly sought after.

I would also say..as far as prices going up..this was selling for a lot more a few yrs back https://www.popsike.com/SEX-PISTOLS-God-Save-the-Queen-GENUINE-AM-AMS7284/100506156180.html

Edited September 26, 2011 by NEV

[Guest sharmo 1]

That record with that box is an historic piece of British u.k music .It's well worth the money and i hope it dosn't go out of the country.My brother had an amazing copie that had the press release papers with it including authentic photo's sadly it went with his divorce.At the Skeggy weekend it seemed the vast majority of my sales were either cheap oldies or new unissued or new modern and all the dealers agreed no big stuff was moving.It's true we are all in the grips of a vastly underestermated resesion and it's not unreasonable to accept that there will be a massive tightening of belts and let's not loose sight of the fact that rare records are luxuary items .the question is not whether price's will go down because obviously they will but if they will recover.Regards Simon.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Soul records down in price?...

...Maybe so. But not any of the ones that i want to buy, sadly...

[Chalky]

Just came across this On ebay is the item number 260857651148.

I know its not soul and the question is are soul records values on their way down and rarities like this on their way up?

https://www.ebay.co.u...X-/260857651148

Rare pop/rock n roll have dominated the prices on ebay far more often than soul records have,

just one in this list....

https://www.popsike.c...h.php?top25=all

I know there are instances of soul records fetching 5 figures privately but I bet the same can be said of many pop records.

[boba]

I agree with what george is saying. The people buying the sex pistols are the same people paying money for a beatles butcher cover, it's something that has some sort of legendary rarity that generic "vinyl collectors" (as opposed to specific genre collectors) buy. There are definitely enough of those people with money. Many soul rarities that are even slightly rare are much rarer than the sex pistols and butcher cover

I also agree that rare, good records in soul and other genres will increase in price and that certain "classic" northern records don't sound that good to the new generation of soul collectors that didn't grow up on the scene. Those records will not rise in price and might drop.

Edited September 26, 2011 by boba

[Guest s0ul45]

Soul records down in price?...

...Maybe so. But not any of the ones that i want to buy, sadly...

Absolutely spot on mate!!

[jimmy clitheroe]

Try www.collectorsfrenzy.com , it will give you the highest priced items that go through on ebay.com, On a daily basis i think...Paul

[Guest john s]

I agree with what george is saying. The people buying the sex pistols are the same people paying money for a beatles butcher cover, it's something that has some sort of legendary rarity that generic "vinyl collectors" (as opposed to specific genre collectors) buy. There are definitely enough of those people with money. Many soul rarities that are even slightly rare are much rarer than the sex pistols and butcher cover

Totally in agreement on the 'Butcher' cover, but have to strongly disagree with the Pistols 45.

There are very few indeed, and the copy here (with an A&M stamped 25 box) is probably unique.

And the Sex Pistols (love them, hate them, or have no real idea who they were or what they meant to a generation) were far more important to the history of pop music around the world than any Northern Soul artist...

(will duck now, to avoid incoming shells)

[boba]

Totally in agreement on the 'Butcher' cover, but have to strongly disagree with the Pistols 45.

There are very few indeed, and the copy here (with an A&M stamped 25 box) is probably unique.

And the Sex Pistols (love them, hate them, or have no real idea who they were or what they meant to a generation) were far more important to the history of pop music around the world than any Northern Soul artist...

(will duck now, to avoid incoming shells)

I don't think you're really disagreeing with what I was saying. I wasn't trying to say the sex pistols isn't rare, I was trying to say that (like the beatles) it is "important" and well known enough as a specific collectible that random people who collect records would buy it. Those same people have never heard of frankie beverly on rouser or a bazillion other rare soul records.

[Guest t.o.t.s.s.c]

he is also selling Lisa JANE by bowie. big four figure record as well.

[Guest giant]

Soul records down in price?...

...Maybe so. But not any of the ones that i want to buy, sadly...

sadly same here

[MrsWoodsrules]

It's all relative, even I know that this Sex Pistols on A&M is highly collectable & rare as hens teeth.

Stick a copy of Mellow Souls or red issue Larry Clinton up for auction, both those will trump that SP single.

Can't generalise on genre trends based on one or two sales.

[MrsWoodsrules]

Try www.collectorsfrenzy.com , it will give you the highest priced items that go through on ebay.com, On a daily basis i think...Paul

That Delites might have made a bit more if that showed the right side :-)

[Guest john s]

I don't think you're really disagreeing with what I was saying. I wasn't trying to say the sex pistols isn't rare, I was trying to say that (like the beatles) it is "important" and well known enough as a specific collectible that random people who collect records would buy it. Those same people have never heard of frankie beverly on rouser or a bazillion other rare soul records.

Ah, fair enough, possibly misunderstood you slightly.

My point was that the Sex Pistols record is much, much rarer than the Beatles 'Butcher' sleeve - and the copies in circulation of the Pistols single have been pretty much released into the market when it was already one of the most sought-after collectible records on the planet.

As it was never 'officially' released, and pretty much all the transactions for the single involve the few 'Golden Handshake' copies that were distributed to A&M staff when they were sacked, it seems fairly certain that more won't arrive on the market.

Maybe if Motown downsize and sack a few senior staff, they'll all get a copy of Frank Wilson as a golden handshake...

Edited September 26, 2011 by john s

[George G]

There are a handful of records that have almost instant recognition among casual music fans and even the general public - those being the Beatles butcher cover, the Sex Pistols A&M 45, a Robert Johnson 78, and an Elvis Sun record. There may a few more, but those seem to be the ones that if you asked someone about a 'collectable record' that would be what they would relate. For younger people, maybe the 1st Nirvana 45. I remember when I was a kid people used to mention 'Enrico Caruso 78s' as some kind of legendary record....I never met anyone in my 40+ years of record buying and chat that actually WANTED a 'Caruso 78'.

I know the butcher cover is not nearly as rare as the Sex Pistols but in the first state format (no pasteover) it was recognized as a collectible as soon as word about the recall got out (within a day or two of the release) and people did indeed buy and hoard them at the time - especially president Alan Livingston and other top Capitol employees. It would be interesting to see what it would be valued today had the pasteovers been all destroyed instead of recycled.

[NEV]

That Delites might have made a bit more if that showed the right side :-)

Which copy ??

There's been two in just over a week and plenty of people watching and bidding .

[Chris L]

"Pop" records didn't streak to dizzy heights like Northern Soul did, NS record prices have nose dived, as every bubble does. Heard someone

say the other day "£500 records are now going for £300 - 350" I do hope that person understands that they are no longer £500 but £300-350

records, after all as the old adage says, something is only worth what someone will pay. I just bought a single for less than 1/2 price than I had

paid 2 years ago and even that price was 45% cheaper than JMs book.

[Chris L]

Whoops !! sorry posted twice

Edited September 27, 2011 by Chris L

[Pete S]

he is also selling Lisa JANE by bowie. big four figure record as well.

My copy of that only made £500, was bought by a museum in New York. Slipped through the net I guess.

[Pete S]

There are a handful of records that have almost instant recognition among casual music fans and even the general public - those being the Beatles butcher cover, the Sex Pistols A&M 45, a Robert Johnson 78, and an Elvis Sun record. There may a few more, but those seem to be the ones that if you asked someone about a 'collectable record' that would be what they would relate. For younger people, maybe the 1st Nirvana 45. I remember when I was a kid people used to mention 'Enrico Caruso 78s' as some kind of legendary record....I never met anyone in my 40+ years of record buying and chat that actually WANTED a 'Caruso 78'.

I know the butcher cover is not nearly as rare as the Sex Pistols but in the first state format (no pasteover) it was recognized as a collectible as soon as word about the recall got out (within a day or two of the release) and people did indeed buy and hoard them at the time - especially president Alan Livingston and other top Capitol employees. It would be interesting to see what it would be valued today had the pasteovers been all destroyed instead of recycled.

I know people will find this hard to believe but I got a copy of the butcher cover out of a shop in Eastbourne, the guy who ran the shop, Paul, was amazing at finding records, it was like a junk shop really but from there I got things like Anthony & the Aqualads, Detroit Spinners I'll always love you red and white demo, Lewis Sisters r & w demo...anyway he said see if you can sell it and take half the money, it was a pasteover and not in great nick, think I got 200 quid for it, that would have been in around 1994

[Guest john s]

I know people will find this hard to believe but I got a copy of the butcher cover out of a shop in Eastbourne, the guy who ran the shop, Paul, was amazing at finding records, it was like a junk shop really but from there I got things like Anthony & the Aqualads, Detroit Spinners I'll always love you red and white demo, Lewis Sisters r & w demo...anyway he said see if you can sell it and take half the money, it was a pasteover and not in great nick, think I got 200 quid for it, that would have been in around 1994

Doesn't surprise me at all, it's not that rare - there are a couple of thousand originals showing up on Popsike alone!

The red/white demos are much rarer, aren't they?

Was a lot easier finding rare records in 1994!

[Guest]

As it was never 'officially' released, and pretty much all the transactions for the single involve the few 'Golden Handshake' copies that were distributed to A&M staff when they were sacked, it seems fairly certain that more won't arrive on the market.

A guy I used to work with was a sales manager at A&M...he had a 7" acetate, finished A&M 7" and spare labels for the Pistols disc...wonder if he still has them all?

[John A]

It's all relative, even I know that this Sex Pistols on A&M is highly collectable & rare as hens teeth.

Stick a copy of Mellow Souls or red issue Larry Clinton up for auction, both those will trump that SP single.

Can't generalise on genre trends based on one or two sales.

A RED Larry Clinton did go through not so long ago and at 6000 odd $$, it was a lot but not as much as this Sex Pistols will make.. Mello Souls, i'd love to see on ebay.

https://www.popsike.com/RARE-Northern-Soul-LARRY-CLINTON-Shes-Wanted-LISTEN/280506719540.html

[Derek Pearson]

I know the butcher cover is not nearly as rare as the Sex Pistols but in the first state format (no pasteover) it was recognized as a collectible as soon as word about the recall got out (within a day or two of the release) and people did indeed buy and hoard them at the time.

I remember being in Chicago early 1990's and got invited to a bar where some older record collectors were meeting up for a few beers and a chat.

Seem to think I knew of or had heard of many of their names; think I'd even bought a few records off one or two of 'em through the post in the years before.

Anyway in amongst all of these great stories they were telling of hunting and tracking vinyl up, down and across chicago land one of the blokes tells this jaw dropping story about him going to work at the Capitol Records warehouse/distribution centre as a young 16 year old kid.

Within a week or so he was left in charge of the guiloteen and responsible for cutting up and disposing of old unwanted record covers and sleeves.

I think you know where this story is going don't you.....

Yep - when the Beatles Butcher cover was withdrawn he was given the task of cutting up all the offending sleeves that were returned to his factory.

He didn't realise the magnitude of it at the time but he did have enough savvy, even as a 16 year old, to spirit away a couple of intact sleeves which he sold for top dollar many years later.

There are far too many names and places to remember - I just wish I could recall some more.

Oh well.

derek

[Guest MrC]

There's always been collectable records, and sleeves! The David Bowie "Man who sold the world" album that originally had him wearing a dress, an early pornographic cover for a The The 12", Elvis on the Sun label (as mentioned earlier), they'll always be around.

No doubt there's already CD's that are worth a fair bit, limited editions, promos etc. I'm sure I saw people discussing getting £30-50 for early Goldmine CDs on here somewhere not so long back.

People will ALWAYS collect stuff, then as things/bands/songs/covers achieve cult status for whatever reason (youtube clips/facebook/blogs etc in the future?), people start to hunt them down. The rarest will always be the limited editions, the locally/home produced stuff, the withdrawn, the destroyed, basically whichever things are only of very limited numbers for whatever reason.

I do wonder what will happen as far as music is concerned, but even though the majority of stuff nowadays is sold via download, people still like to have a physical copy of something they love and cherish, love ain't all virtual!

I guess rare vinyl/shellac/styrene & early & limited CDs will just become more collectable, and start turning up on the antiques roadshow of the future! At the end of the day, rare is rare, and there's always people who want to own the rarest things they can, whether they actually like them or not!

Just wish I'd kept my copies of those Sex Pistols singles.......

Edited September 27, 2011 by MrC

[Chalky]

"Pop" records didn't streak to dizzy heights like Northern Soul did, NS record prices have nose dived, as every bubble does. Heard someone

say the other day "£500 records are now going for £300 - 350" I do hope that person understands that they are no longer £500 but £300-350

records, after all as the old adage says, something is only worth what someone will pay. I just bought a single for less than 1/2 price than I had

paid 2 years ago and even that price was 45% cheaper than JMs book.

Yes and 40 to 60 quid records are all of a sudden worth £160 and records like the High Keys is all of a sudden worth £400 for a demo and £650 for an issue.....prices coming down? Don't think so. Sure there are bargains to be had, always has been, taste change and records fall out of favour, supply and demand will always keep the record market healthy.

[boba]

There's always been collectable records, and sleeves! The David Bowie "Man who sold the world" album that originally had him wearing a dress, an early pornographic cover for a The The 12", Elvis on the Sun label (as mentioned earlier), they'll always be around.

isn't there a more expensive bowie LP cover? I think it was diamond dogs, like you could originally see the dog's testicles and they withdrew it and airbrushed it out.

[boba]

Yes and 40 to 60 quid records are all of a sudden worth £160 and records like the High Keys is all of a sudden worth £400 for a demo and £650 for an issue.....prices coming down? Don't think so. Sure there are bargains to be had, always has been, taste change and records fall out of favour, supply and demand will always keep the record market healthy.

clearly some things are coming down though. and some things are going up.

[Chalky]

clearly some things are coming down though. and some things are going up.

always been the case though Bob over the years so nothing has changed really, as I said tastes change and records fall out of favour.

[boba]

always been the case though Bob over the years so nothing has changed really, as I said tastes change and records fall out of favour.

yes, although there are certain trends you can point out if you make more specific statements. I would say that higher end rarities are going up in price and most lower end stuff that is still around has gone down. Obviously some lower end stuff has become higher end rarities as copies have dried up. Similar things have happened to the doowop market, the higher end rarities are still very high, even though there are much fewer collectors they are fighting for the top items and mostly have cheaper items.

[Chalky]

Maybe prices are falling back to the price they should have been in the first place, after all it has been an over inflated market for some years in many cases. Of course trophy records will always fetch the money, at least whilst the DJ exists but there are still plenty of cheap records selling for more than they should.

[George G]

isn't there a more expensive bowie LP cover? I think it was diamond dogs, like you could originally see the dog's testicles and they withdrew it and airbrushed it out.

yes, AFAIK the Diamond Dogs cover never made it to public sale and the only surviving copies were grabbed by RCA employees or others in the business. It's much rarer than the 'drag cover'. The drag cover was in stores (UK press) and sold a few before getting pulled. It's been an iconic collectable for years - since the mid 70s, when I lived in Cleveland at the time Bowie was huge, as big as the Stones or Led Zeppelin, and there were people after the drag cover (as well as the gimmix 'round cover' issue of the same LP from Germany) back then. There's a very good counterfeit made of the drag cover made back then.

There's a few other legendary Bowie rarities, the US stock "Can't Help Thinking About Me" on WB, the US stock "All the Madmen/Jeanine" 45 on Mercury (which was not even confirmed to exist until a few years ago when a few copies were found in - not surprisingly - NE Ohio).