Auctions Changing The Dynamic Of Collecting?

[Pete S]

Right this has been on my mind for ages and I've got to say something now, though in all honesty I can't believe I haven't said something before now.

When John Manship auctions a run of the mill title - something that usually sells on ordinary lists for £50 - but sells on the JM auction for £250 for whatever reason.

Now we all know that the record is actually only worth £50 and whoever bought it for £250 has spent way too much but that could be for various reasons for instance, it could be his all time favourite record and he would spend anything to get it. That's not the point.

The point is, why do other people who have the record then come straight on here and try to sell their own copies for the same amount of money as John Manship got for it, knowing that it's only worth £50? Do they then cross out the price in their price guide and replace with with £250?

I've seen it time and time again when a common record sells for big money, they come on here asking the same and usually go away having had to reduce the item four times before they sold it.

These auctions are one offs and mean nothing when it comes to the real value of a record.

Shame people can't remember this.

THIS POST IS NOT AIMED AT ANY ONE PERSON SELLING ANY RECORDS ON SOUL SOURCE AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME BEFORE ANYONE STARTS

Edited September 20, 2011 by Pete S

[Steve G]

Yes seen the trend meself. High Keyes was the latest example, before that the Volcanoes on Harthon.

The auction is very clever, but it often only means two people are bidding against each other. Prices come back to reality soon enough on these not really rare items.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Steve G

[Steve L]

I agree, the world of John Manships auctions is inhabited by strange people from a different planet to me. These people have either more money than they know what to do with or are clinically insane

To try and mix this world with the one that most ordinary collectors (well me anyway) inhabit is just wrong. Alternatively you could describe it as bandwagon jumping, trying to make a quick buck

I suppose that goes on in all walks of life

[Middleman]

Have these people who pay these inflated prices never heard of this website?

Best and cheapest place to buy in my opinion.

Surely a google search might throw up some alternative as well?

They are mental and I wish they would stop it.

[Pete S]

Alternatively you could describe it as bandwagon jumping, trying to make a quick buck

I suppose that goes on in all walks of life

Yeah I suppose that's really what I'm trying to say about this.

[Guest julesp1905]

Great Quote from an old UK price Guide

Suppose Steve Crick, a collector with extraordinary taste is desperate to obtain a copy of My Old Killarney Hat by Sister Mary Gertrude, Not a record that appears on many dealers lists so he advertises that he is prepared to pay £50 for it, Four dealers manage to come across the elusive record, One is happy to recieve £50 from an equally delighted Steve Crick, the other three can not interest anyone at all at any price, so what is My Old Killarney Hat Worth?

[Pete S]

Great Quote from an old UK price Guide

Suppose Steve Crick, a collector with extraordinary taste is desperate to obtain a copy of My Old Killarney Hat by Sister Mary Gertrude, Not a record that appears on many dealers lists so he advertises that he is prepared to pay £50 for it, Four dealers manage to come across the elusive record, One is happy to recieve £50 from an equally delighted Steve Crick, the other three can not interest anyone at all at any price, so what is My Old Killarney Hat Worth?

Yes that is a really good analogy.

What the sensible thing to do when a record does sell for double or treble it's 'real' value, would be to go in and offer it at maybe half the auction price, that way you've doubled it's original price but not sold it at the auction price, everyone happy.

[Guest MrC]

Great Quote from an old UK price Guide

Suppose Steve Crick, a collector with extraordinary taste is desperate to obtain a copy of My Old Killarney Hat by Sister Mary Gertrude, Not a record that appears on many dealers lists so he advertises that he is prepared to pay £50 for it, Four dealers manage to come across the elusive record, One is happy to recieve £50 from an equally delighted Steve Crick, the other three can not interest anyone at all at any price, so what is My Old Killarney Hat Worth?

A very good point indeed, and once again comes down to the old demand, & supply issue. You can price a record at £5000 because it's the only one known, but that doesn't make it any good or mean anyone wants it. What it DOES mean is that the next few copies will be offered at that same price, even though no one wanted the 1st copy to be found!

You can't really blame anyone for trying to get the most they can for anything they sell, and when record prices started really going up a lot a record was always valued on what the last person paid for it.

Trouble is, this was always tainted, like Pete mentions, by people desperately wanting a record to complete their colection at any price, even if wasn't a particularly rare record, just one no one wanted to sell at the time.

Wade Flemmons "Jeanette" is a prime example, a couple of quid in every box you looked in at Wigan, not a really rare record, but as Wade Flemmons and Ramsel have become more collectable, and people have got older and better paid (in some cases!) all the copies have gone into collections and kept there, making it more and more difficult for someone who wants one, to be able to pick up a copy at what it's actually worth.

I admit a lot of the prices on JM are beyond comprehension, but John has a loyal group of buyers who have gone to him for decades, some, I guess, will only buy from him, and I have to say the quality and condition of the stuff he auctions is always 1st class.

Pete, you know him pretty well, haven't you asked him about the prices he manages to get?

But back to the point, jumping on the bandwagon is human nature, and greed is a pretty strong force for a lot of people too.

As I said before, you'll never stop people trying to get the highest value for anything they sell, nor should you, and I don't really think blame of any kind should be attached to those who do either.

Good luck to them I say (as long as it's not for a record I'm desperate for! )

[Guest MrC]

Yes that is a really good analogy.

What the sensible thing to do when a record does sell for double or treble it's 'real' value, would be to go in and offer it at maybe half the auction price, that way you've doubled it's original price but not sold it at the auction price, everyone happy.

But not everybody's as fair as you Pete, and there'll always be people out to make a fast buck where they can.

[Pete S]

Pete, you know him pretty well, haven't you asked him about the prices he manages to get?

Not really, well the topic was really about the aftermath of the auctions and how people immediately adjust their prices to match them, not about what John gets for them as it's a separate topic really.

[Guest eddiep]

Hi Pete,

As much as many of us can't understand how some price's are reached on JM's auction, at the end of the day it's just another way for collector's to purchase a wanted / needed record. Albeit an expensive one.

It's also business. And if someone want's to pay more than most would generally regard the value of a record then that's up to them and their wallet I reckon.

The same way as I wouldn't (couldn't !) afford the work's of art, rare classic cars, furniture, stamps etc. that go through auction at Sotherby's and the like which people still pay huge sum's of money for and that most of us would not give a second look at. But if I had a rare item worthy of auction I'd want a similar price that was reached.

It boils down to if you want it and can afford it then that's another avenue open to the individual to purchase I guess.

I also think it's human nature (and business ideology) that if someone is able to achieve a price for something then someone else with the same item would surely want the same or a similar price wouldn't they?

Is that fair ? Or is that greed ?

I don't honestly know.

As an example though...

In the late 80's I had a Mk 5 Cortina. Sold it in the early 90's for £200.

Nowdays even a knackered one sells for £800+. If I still had mine i'd want at least £800 now BUT in sensible and real terms the old Cortina's are not worth that at all. Bloody rot boxes!

It still wouldn't change my mind about selling it for £800 or more though.

Is that fair? Or is that greed?

I still don't honestly know.

Just the way of the world mate I guess. Capitalism and free enterprise in action.

All the best,

Eddie

[Pete S]

Hi Pete,

As much as many of us can't understand how some price's are reached on JM's auction, at the end of the day it's just another way for collector's to purchase a wanted / needed record. Albeit an expensive one.

It's also business. And if someone want's to pay more than most would generally regard the value of a record then that's up to them and their wallet I reckon.

The same way as I wouldn't (couldn't !) afford the work's of art, rare classic cars, furniture, stamps etc. that go through auction at Sotherby's and the like which people still pay huge sum's of money for and that most of us would not give a second look at. But if I had a rare item worthy of auction I'd want a similar price that was reached.

It boils down to if you want it and can afford it then that's another avenue open to the individual to purchase I guess.

I also think it's human nature (and business ideology) that if someone is able to achieve a price for something then someone else with the same item would surely want the same or a similar price wouldn't they?

Is that fair ? Or is that greed ?

I don't honestly know.

As an example though...

In the late 80's I had a Mk 5 Cortina. Sold it in the early 90's for £200.

Nowdays even a knackered one sells for £800+. If I still had mine i'd want at least £800 now BUT in sensible and real terms the old Cortina's are not worth that at all. Bloody rot boxes!

It still wouldn't change my mind about selling it for £800 or more though.

Is that fair? Or is that greed?

I still don't honestly know.

Just the way of the world mate I guess. Capitalism and free enterprise in action.

All the best,

Eddie

I'd do what I mentioned above - sell it at half the auction price. Or auction it starting at half the auction price

[Guest eddiep]

Sensible and a good call mate

Common sense say's it should sell more easily too then I guess.

ATB

Eddie

Edited September 20, 2011 by eddiep

[Reg Scott]

JM's auctions are, as you say, a totally different world to the 'normal' market and for many good reasons and nobody twists arms to pay the prices, however, the best and latest example is when the Contacts on Quadran sold for more than JM had the copy for as a 'Buy Now' on the site! (BTW This followed straight on from PB auctioning one for the same price )

[Guest Bearsy]

yep it happens often and also those that say they have a copy for sale at less than book price, what the fook is the book price and what book are these prices in cos JM price guide is jsut a price guide aint it

[Steve G]

yep it happens often and also those that say they have a copy for sale at less than book price, what the fook is the book price and what book are these prices in cos JM price guide is jsut a price guide aint it

The trouble with prices guides is that demand changes very quickly on the scene. This is much more so than it is with other collectibles where everything is known and has a fairly accurate value which doesn't change THAT MUCH from one month to the next. And that is why you need to always have the latest edition with you. Some stuff - is now half book price and less other stuff double the book price.

Confused.com

Also worth mentioning that some very rare stuff goes cheap......it's all down to availability and demand as we all know.

I think Pete's suggesting for subsequent sellers is fair and should ensure a quick sale. For every auction there is at least one person who didn't win who still wants the record.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Steve G

[Markw]

I admit a lot of the prices on JM are beyond comprehension, but John has a loyal group of buyers who have gone to him for decades, some, I guess, will only buy from him, and I have to say the quality and condition of the stuff he auctions is always 1st class.

This is the crux of it with JM auctions I think. I could be totally off the mark, but are quite a number of his buyers collectors from overseas maybe? Perhaps less so for the really big ticket, genuinely hard to find stuff which might attract some of the big ticket collectors/DJs etc over here. But in the case of JM's regular customers abroad, does a lot not come down to provenance, quality and reputation (not to say that other dealers are not reputable, like you Pete). I think all that happens is folk clock the JM auction results and put items up in the hope some of the stardust will land - nothing wrong with that. Then it all settles back down again once the excitement is over.

[Guest Bearsy]

The trouble with prices guides is that demand changes very quickly on the scene. This is much more so than it is with other collectibles where everything is known and has a fairly accurate value. And that is why you need to always have the latest edition with you. Some stuff - is now half book price and less other stuff double the book price.

yep i agree Steve but what book dictates thee actual book price, a guide is just a guide and we all know JM guide is based on Minters for what he feels he could sell them for or is it for what he hopes he could sell them for, 2 very different scenarios and yet neither would still give a definate price of a tune but peeps that dont run a major website and all the overheads like JM would have never mind the tax and wages etc etc etc entailed in such a business still expect to try sell a tune he has on here for the same or if not just a few quid less, dealers like Pete who are all above board must be a tad frustrated that they have had at times tunes that JM has auctioned for a lot more than they have had listed for quite a while then along comes someone with a copy trying to get JM prices >>>>

Edited September 20, 2011 by Bearsy

[Pete S]

yep i agree Steve but what book dictates thee actual book price, a guide is just a guide and we all know JM guide is based on Minters for what he feels he could sell them for or is it for what he hopes he could sell them for, 2 very different scenarios and yet neither would still give a definate price of a tune but peeps that dont run a major website and all the overheads like JM would have never mind the tax and wages etc etc etc entailed in such a business still expect to try sell a tune he has on here for the same or if not just a few quid less, dealers like Pete who are all above board must be a tad frustrated that they have had at times tunes that JM has auctioned for a lot more than they have had listed for quite a while then along comes someone with a copy trying to get JM prices >>>>

No what really frustrates me is when I have a really, really good record and nobody's interested it, so I end up selling it for peanuts, then 6 months later it appears on a JM auction and goes for way more than I was originally selling it for, good example, Sweet Nothins Cry Baby Cry w.demo, I could think of loads if I put my mind to it. It's like people need that big seal of approval before they'll take a chance on something.

[Guest ashleysoul]

as someone who is prone to bidding on manship AND buying off of soul source i think everything has its place...

the reason manships and say pete bradys site work - is that you are guranteed of the authenticity and quality, which if you are shipping hundreds of pounds, is a very very good thing.

i do however also enjoy buying of this site, and its something i will do more and more....

i tell you what is dead to me - ebay - that place is a nightmare and i now stay well clear.

however, each to their own, its up to people how they spend their hard earned!

Edited September 20, 2011 by ashleysoul

[Guest Bearsy]

No what really frustrates me is when I have a really, really good record and nobody's interested it, so I end up selling it for peanuts, then 6 months later it appears on a JM auction and goes for way more than I was originally selling it for, good example, Sweet Nothins Cry Baby Cry w.demo, I could think of loads if I put my mind to it. It's like people need that big seal of approval before they'll take a chance on something.

thats kind of wat i was trying to say Pete and totally agree with you

[Guest Bearsy]

No what really frustrates me is when I have a really, really good record and nobody's interested it, so I end up selling it for peanuts, then 6 months later it appears on a JM auction and goes for way more than I was originally selling it for, good example, Sweet Nothins Cry Baby Cry w.demo, I could think of loads if I put my mind to it. It's like people need that big seal of approval before they'll take a chance on something.

thats kind of wat i was trying to say Pete and totally agree with you

as someone who is prone to bidding on manship AND buying off of soul source i think everything has its place...

the reason manships and say pete bradys site work - is that you are guranteed of the authenticity and quality, which if you are shipping hundreds of pounds, is a very very good thing.

i do however also enjoy buying of this site, and its something i will do more and more....

i tell you what is dead to me - ebay - that place is a nightmare and i now stay well clear.

however, each to their own, its up to people how they spend their hard earned!

your garaunteed the authenticity and quality off the likes of Pete and many other dealers on here too but agree with ebay i wont buy anyhting ex[ensive to me off there unless i know the dealer and have total trust in whom im dealing with

[Guest ashleysoul]

tru bearsy,

the great thing about soulsource is that everyone i've dealt with so far has been top notch and honest as the day.......makes you like mankind i guess - then you watch x factor and all that changes.

[Guest Bearsy]

tru bearsy,

the great thing about soulsource is that everyone i've dealt with so far has been top notch and honest as the day.......makes you like mankind i guess - then you watch x factor and all that changes.

[Chalky]

No what really frustrates me is when I have a really, really good record and nobody's interested it, so I end up selling it for peanuts, then 6 months later it appears on a JM auction and goes for way more than I was originally selling it for, good example, Sweet Nothins Cry Baby Cry w.demo, I could think of loads if I put my mind to it. It's like people need that big seal of approval before they'll take a chance on something.

What did the Sweet Nothings sell for on JM? I've seen quite a few lately, issues too which you rarely saw. Down to around £60 in price now.

[Steve L]

This isn't really about the quality/trustworthiness of dealers like John Manship, its about a record that is generally valued at lets say £50, the record then fetches say £300 on JM's auction. This then becomes the records"value" for some people who also try to sell it for £300. That was petes original point.

[NEV]

Have these people who pay these inflated prices never heard of this website?

Best and cheapest place to buy in my opinion.

Surely a google search might throw up some alternative as well?

They are mental and I wish they would stop it.

The crux of the matter is these people believe in buying from someone they have come to trust ..no different from people who only go to a main dealer for a car or a main delaer to get it serviced etc ...there's usually always a cheaper option but if you've got plenty of dough then you don't need to look for the cheap option.

Back on track though and i believe ,the question Pete is asking ....why do other people use the inflated sales price from auction as a bench mark for their sales ,knowing they are not actually rare records.

It is unfair to keep qouting John Manship as it is just as bad on ebay ... take the FIDELS on Maverick the other week on ebay that was discussed on here .

It was a two horse race that ended up over $300 ..for a £30 max record ....

the next one on ebay went for over £100 at auction and now i see it being listed by a UK seller .......with a reserve price

Basically they are chancers and you can't blame em for trying to make as much as possible ..the top and bottom of it is ...people are paying and that's what's allowing it to happen

[Guest jb000]

JM has a Nick Allen- Hard way to go (walas) on his auction site, WHY?, its a £40-£60 record, tops! (IMO)

[Guest julesp1905]

This isn't really about the quality/trustworthiness of dealers like John Manship, its about a record that is generally valued at lets say £50, the record then fetches say £300 on JM's auction. This then becomes the records"value" for some people who also try to sell it for £300. That was petes original point.

Can you blame them, an attempt at trying to catch the second highest bidder, one person does not create a price at auction, you need at least two.

been said already, Demand, availability.....but in time they revert back to a more reflective price

[Guest julesp1905]

JM has a Nick Allen- Hard way to go (walas) on his auction site, WHY?, its a £40-£60 record, tops! (IMO)

Think theres one available in the sales forum at the moment for £60, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if John achieves double that tommorrow night it won't be there for long

[NEV]

JM has a Nick Allen- Hard way to go (walas) on his auction site, WHY?, its a £40-£60 record, tops! (IMO)

Yes and there's one on ebay with a reserve on it (uk seller again!)

Craig Moerer was selling this at $25 a few yrs back and nobody wanted it ,nor played it

[Steve L]

JM has a Nick Allen- Hard way to go (walas) on his auction site, WHY?, its a £40-£60 record, tops! (IMO)

It'll be interesting to see what this fetches, one went through ebay last week for about £27. About 9/10 months ago I missed one at £7.99 on ebay cos I forgot to bid, no one else bid on it. The seller immediately relisted it so the following week I bid £8.20 for it thinking no one would be interested - it went for £8.40! Doh

[Steve L]

Can you blame them, an attempt at trying to catch the second highest bidder, one person does not create a price at auction, you need at least two.

been said already, Demand, availability.....but in time they revert back to a more reflective price

Thats not really the point mate, we're not talking about the same thing here

[Chalky]

Yes and there's one on ebay with a reserve on it (uk seller again!)

Craig Moerer was selling this at $25 a few yrs back and nobody wanted it ,nor played it

It's always had the odd spin (Stafford biggie for Keb) and a few years ago you could pick it up cheap here.....I was certainly giving it spins ten years ago. It seems to be getting a new lease of life and there is lots of interest in it of late, bound to have an effect on the price. I said not long ago probably about £70 now a days.

[NEV]

It's always had the odd spin (Stafford biggie for Keb) and a few years ago you could pick it up cheap here.....I was certainly giving it spins ten years ago. It seems to be getting a new lease of life and there is lots of interest in it of late, bound to have an effect on the price. I said not long ago probably about £70 now a days.

Damn you Chalky ..you always have the last word ..and annoyingly right

About time you dropped Chalky and became the ORACLE

[Guest jb000]

It's always had the odd spin (Stafford biggie for Keb) and a few years ago you could pick it up cheap here.....I was certainly giving it spins ten years ago. It seems to be getting a new lease of life and there is lots of interest in it of late, bound to have an effect on the price. I said not long ago probably about £70 now a days.

fair play to the seller on here for selling it at a decent price and giving somebody who is on the look out for it to get it at an affordable price!, its been a fav of mine for a few years now

[Chalky]

Damn you Chalky ..you always have the last word ..and annoyingly right

About time you dropped Chalky and became the ORACLE

I've noticed the younger element getting into records like this, Paul Barker at Beat Boutique for one has been giving it some spins.

[NEV]

True....but get back on track please.lol

[Ernie Andrews]

I once put a similar point to Pete's on here with a suggestion that we start our own price guide. What would happen would be the record would be listed and then a price range would be voted on by the first five people - Then the average would taken as the price guide.

To be honest if something is worth priced at 500 pounds (eg High Keys) I have my own price in mind and just laugh when I see a price like that and think no problem Ill move onto the next one but I do think to myself should I reply to his/her post of 500 pounds and say "get real" !

[Guest Bearsy]

I once put a similar point to Pete's on here with a suggestion that we start our own price guide. What would happen would be the record would be listed and then a price range would be voted on by the first five people - Then the average would taken as the price guide.

To be honest if something is worth priced at 500 pounds (eg High Keys) I have my own price in mind and just laugh when I see a price like that and think no problem Ill move onto the next one but I do think to myself should I reply to his/her post of 500 pounds and say "get real" !

I dont think your alone in thinking that

[Ian Dewhirst]

I once put a similar point to Pete's on here with a suggestion that we start our own price guide. What would happen would be the record would be listed and then a price range would be voted on by the first five people - Then the average would taken as the price guide.

To be honest if something is worth priced at 500 pounds (eg High Keys) I have my own price in mind and just laugh when I see a price like that and think no problem Ill move onto the next one but I do think to myself should I reply to his/her post of 500 pounds and say "get real" !

Yeah but the problem is you just never know why someone wants something there and then and is prepared to pay a high price for it. I've been absolutely staggered at some things that I've sold over the years. The first auction I ever did in the mid 70's, I managed to sell a Lada Edmund Jr for aproximately 400% more than it was worth to anyone else at the time. How come? I have no idea at all.

"The Larue" buyer was a hairdresser from Northampton who placed what he hoped would be a pre-emptive bid on it which was aproximately 380% higher then my wildest dreams. He wanted to pick it up about 2 days before the auction ended but I said the auction didn't close until 6.00pm 2 days later. He then rang 2 days later @ 5.50pm and raised his bid further still. When he won it @ 6.01pm, he then drove 5 hours from Northampton, arrived at my place @ 11.00pm and asked to be alone with the record in my kitchen. 5 minutes later he came out of the kitchen and paid me in cash.

As he was leaving, I said something like, "you must really like the record". He looked at me and said he'd never heard it.

Questions questions ay?

I've met some mad eccentric collectors down here who really have no real interest in the Northern or Modern Soul scenes but collect rare Soul records and they will buy a record for completely different reasons to someone else. I've got one guy who's been collecting 'dance' themed records since he was a kid and another guy who collects particular titles with certain words in them in them. The moral of the story, is that you just never know.

Also it must be really difficult to guage the value of a record these days unless you're pretty on top of it all and a regular buyer, seller or dealer.

I mean Lee Fields "Take Me Back" £700??????

Never in a million years. Worth £50 tops because I know how many copies are around. So I'd have flogged it for £30 probably. However,there's a lot of difference between £30 and £700 though, so who can blame people for trying?

Ian D

[phatspinner]

Hi Ian

Fascinating story

I presume that it was an import copy of Lada Edmund Jr !!!

Andy

[Steve Plumb]

... take the FIDELS on Maverick the other week on ebay that was discussed on here .

It was a two horse race that ended up over $300 ..for a £30 max record ....

the next one on ebay went for over £100 at auction and now i see it being listed by a UK seller .......with a reserve price

Basically they are chancers and you can't blame em for trying to make as much as possible ..the top and bottom of it is ...people are paying and that's what's allowing it to happen

I saw the auction end and the record was also on my site at £50

So i left it and it sold the next day (it'd been on about a week prior to the auction)

The next question to tackle is this...........yeah i kept me crediblity and didn't hike the price cos of the auction BUT what if the guy who bought it off me hikes it and sells it for say £200 (not saying he did, just using this an a possible scenario)

Do i feel good for keeping my credibility or stupid cos i let it go to someone who i know will triple the price?

Fidels is a fookin great record by the way (imho)

[Pete S]

I saw the auction end and the record was also on my site at £50

So i left it and it sold the next day (it'd been on about a week prior to the auction)

The next question to tackle is this...........yeah i kept me crediblity and didn't hike the price cos of the auction BUT what if the guy who bought it off me hikes it and sells it for say £200 (not saying he did, just using this an a possible scenario)

Do i feel good for keeping my credibility or stupid cos i let it go to someone who i know will triple the price?

Fidels is a fookin great record by the way (imho)

You should just forget it - I sold a Moments on here last year for 500 or 600 quid, the person who bought it said to me - you know I'm going to put a few hundred on top of this don't you - and I said well thats nothing to do with me, good luck to you!

[Simsy]

The point is, why do other people who have the record then come straight on here and try to sell their own copies for the same amount of money as John Manship got for it, knowing that it's only worth £50?

Stupidity! There's only one John Manship.

You can't just assumptively ride on the coat-tails of a 30 year reputation for immaculate vinyl & labels. That's what's always been worth the money.

[sir cumference]

Stupidity! There's only one John Manship.

You can't just assumptively ride on the coat-tails of a 30 year reputation for immaculate vinyl & labels. That's what's always been worth the money.

And what about those descriptions-`kinell,they really are literary masterpieces designed to eke out the last few quid from the desperate and needy.

[Pete S]

And what about those descriptions-`kinell,they really are literary masterpieces designed to eke out the last few quid from the desperate and needy.

I know, before reading that I had no idea I desperately needed a Direction label demo of any description

[paultp]

Can you blame them, an attempt at trying to catch the second highest bidder, one person does not create a price at auction, you need at least two.

been said already, Demand, availability.....but in time they revert back to a more reflective price

Records don't always revert to a lower price; a couple of examples are:

Dottie and Millie which was regularly on lists for £30 to £50 (and I kept missing it!) then suddenly became a £100 then £150 tune.

The Trends (TFOLL) was also on lists for £70 to £100 (which I also kept missing!!), then a man with red hair (allegedly) paid somebody £300 for one and that became the price and continued to go up as it became more difficult to get hold of.

Somebody mentioned Jeanette on Ramsel which was evidently a really common and cheap record, but it rarely surfaces now, and I sold my Marva Lee because I couldn't believe people were paying a ton for it when it was in everyone's sales box when I bought it for 15 - it has never come down again.

It is so difficult to price a record because of the "in demand" element - at any time a record can rocket in value. I'm going to cite my worst sale ever which was the Casualeers on Roulette demo which sat in my sales box for well over a year at .......£20 The person that eventually bought it (and couldn't get it out of the box quick enough) in the very early 2000's started playing it in his set, it quickly ballooned in price and it eventually appeared in JM's guide in 2008 at £200.

What was it really worth at the time I sold it?

Some things do drop down again though because they turn out to be not as rare as the "in demand" price suggests. Somebody mentioned Drizabone (as an example of played out sh*te - alongside Right Track! ) in another thread, I remember the buzz when this started getting played and also that there were a few versions. The double 12" with the album mix was deemed the one to have; there was a single 12" that had a slightly different version on it and a 7" pic sleeve that was the same as the single 12". I found three of the 7" singles which fitted in DJ boxes and sold one for £70 and one for £100 as it went up, I kept one too. I've still got the double 12 and I think I have a single, but what price is that now? £25 quid?

How does anyone price records but on how they have sold before and what you think they might sell for?

If something is "in demand" an auction is the probably the best way to determine the price - but at that time and to that buyer. After that the buyer has got one so maybe people will pay the same or maybe they won't.

Funny old game.

[Guest MrC]

Funny old game.

That says it all, It certainly is.

[Chalky]

Some things do drop down again though because they turn out to be not as rare as the "in demand" price suggests. Somebody mentioned Drizabone (as an example of played out sh*te - alongside Right Track! ) in another thread, I remember the buzz when this started getting played and also that there were a few versions. The double 12" with the album mix was deemed the one to have; there was a single 12" that had a slightly different version on it and a 7" pic sleeve that was the same as the single 12". I found three of the 7" singles which fitted in DJ boxes and sold one for £70 and one for £100 as it went up, I kept one too. I've still got the double 12 and I think I have a single, but what price is that now? £25 quid?

How does anyone price records but on how they have sold before and what you think they might sell for?

If something is "in demand" an auction is the probably the best way to determine the price - but at that time and to that buyer. After that the buyer has got one so maybe people will pay the same or maybe they won't.

Funny old game.

I thought the 7 inch with PS was the Drizabone to have? Anyway I sold one for £200 once on ebay