Epitome Of Sound

[Markd]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how to identify the original white promo of "you don't love me".

Thanks

Mark

[Pete S]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how to identify the original white promo of "you don't love me".

Thanks

Mark

It's really difficult, with or without reference books, but I think the counterfeit has a sudden sharp dip just before the centre hole. Not got access to anything to confirm this so don't take it for granted.

[Markd]

Thanks for the reply Pete, I'm finding this difficult.

ATB

Mark

[Guest]

Theres something under the label (cant remember what, a couple of numbers or a hallmark or something I sold mine to Dave Moore about 10 years ago) near the Sandbag text....you should feel something raised under the paper.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Guest

[Chalky]

there's a matrix stamp or something similar under the label on the original, can't remember off top of me head what it says.

[Guest soulboy1965]

Hey Pete - sorry to jump in but I've just taken a photo of my copy and wondered what you thought. It does dip around the centre - so finger's crossed

Also two others I'm really not sure about.

Scuse the poor quality, but with the flash on everything just whited-out!

[Chalky]

Previous topic at

[Pete S]

Here is a link to a copy I sold on Ebay

https://www.popsike.com/php/detaildatar.php?itemnr=120541942011

that is a 100% definite original. The description is below

THE EPITOME OF SOUND - YOU DON'T LOVE ME / WHERE WERE YOU - SANDBAG 101 DEMO. Try finding a real one of these, nearly every demo I've ever seen has been a counterfeit, this one is a 100% genuine white demo and if is only EX because it has a non-sounding mark on it, otherwise would have beeen EX+. Could prove to be a bargain! (Check on Popsike and you will see numerous copies of the counterfeit white demo selling for big money to unsuspecting buyers. The counterfeit has a sharp dip about 1cm out from the middle, the original has a much smoother dip)

On 12-Mar-10 at 17:11:29 GMT, seller added the following information:

I HAVE ADDED A SECOND PHOTOGRAPH - THE SECOND PICTURE SHOWS WHAT THE COUNTERFEIT LOOKS LIKE, SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE SOLD THESE ON EBAY AS ORIGINAL WHITE DEMOS BUT THEY ARE NOT!

SECONDLY, SOMEONE ASKED ABOUT THE 'BRAILLE' NUMBERS. ALL ISSUES HAVE THOSE LITTLE NUMBERS EMBOSSED SOMEWHERE ON THE LABEL. NOT ALL OF THE DEMOS DO, IN FACT I ASKED TWO WELL KNOWN DJ'S TODAY, INCLUDING MICK SMITH, AND HIS DOES NOT HAVE THE BRAILLE NUMBER BUT IT DOES HAVE THE "R" STAMP ON THE RUN OFF, AS DOES MINE.

[Prophonics 2029]

The Crampton looks like a Monarch WC press. SandBag should have a M.S.I C.O in reverse stamped under the label, strange cause I have never found a Swan Virtue with this stamp yet.

[Guest soulboy1965]

The Crampton looks like a Monarch WC press. SandBag should have a M.S.I C.O in reverse stamped under the label, strange cause I have never found a Swan Virtue with this stamp yet.

Scuse my ignorance, but what is a Monarch WC press?

[Tony A]

Scuse my ignorance, but what is a Monarch WC press?

West Coast.

[Steve L]

Scuse my ignorance, but what is a Monarch WC press?

A record made at Monarch pressing plant in Los Angeles (West Coast) easily identifiable by a stamp and delta number

[Guest soulboy1965]

A record made at Monarch pressing plant in Los Angeles (West Coast) easily identifiable by a stamp and delta number

Aha - so I'm assuming that's an original?

Mark

[Pete S]

Aha - so I'm assuming that's an original?

Mark

Mark, you need to know about Monarchs pressing code: it's a 5 figure number (changing to a 6 figure number circa 1975) and it is invaluable for dating manufacturing dates of records. For instance, an original record from the mid 60's would start with a 5, 6 or 7, pressings/bootlegs from the mid 70's tend to start with an 8, 9 or 0. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure someone has the key somewhere.

[Mal C]

deffo original Crampton sisters, as I just bought a demo of Dave Flynn, that's the same as mine...

I did not think it was ever booted was it??

Mal.C

Edited September 21, 2011 by Mal.C.

[Guest soulboy1965]

Mark, you need to know about Monarchs pressing code: it's a 5 figure number (changing to a 6 figure number circa 1975) and it is invaluable for dating manufacturing dates of records. For instance, an original record from the mid 60's would start with a 5, 6 or 7, pressings/bootlegs from the mid 70's tend to start with an 8, 9 or 0. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure someone has the key somewhere.

Thanks for that Pete - off to check my copy upstairs lol

My mates (who are only just getting into Northern), think I'm nut when it comes to music trivia, BUT you lot put me to shame. (Not telling them that though)

[Russ Vickers]

Thanks for that Pete - off to check my copy upstairs lol

My mates (who are only just getting into Northern), think I'm nut when it comes to music trivia, BUT you lot put me to shame. (Not telling them that though)

Dave Flynns site Anorak Corner has the 'key'.

Best Russ

[Steve L]

Aha - so I'm assuming that's an original?

Mark

Mark, a lot of the bootlegs made in the 70s were pressed at Monarch as well as originals going back to the 60s. As Pete said the delta number will give you a pretty accurate date when the record was made.

[Soul-slider]

That's the 'off white' issue Sancho, same as mine....but is it on the white promo?

[Guest eddiep]

Hi Mark,

The 3 records your questioning the authenticity of are all original's. 100% !

I know because you bought them off of me.

Any doubts or anything your not happy about I'll take them back mate. No probs

All the best,

Eddie

Edited September 22, 2011 by eddiep

[Guest soulboy1965]

Hi Mark,

The 3 records your questioning the authenticity of are all original's. 100% !

I know because you bought them off of me.

Any doubts or anything your not happy about I'll take them back mate. No probs

All the best,

Eddie

Hey mate

not so much questioning authenticity, just wanting to know how the heck does one tell - not only these but on the loads of others I've picked up along the way. It's a minefield and confusing to hell!

And you're defo NOT getting them back lol

Mark

PS: You don't have a copy of Benny Curtis - Dirty Hearts laying around I spose?

[Guest eddiep]

Sorry mate, not got a Benny Curtis. If you put an ad up in wants though I'm sure someone will have one.

And yeah it can be a minefield but so many knowledgable people on here you can usually find the info you need

Hope your keeping well mate.

Good to see your on here

All the best,

Eddie

[Mick Holdsworth]

Here is a link to a copy I sold on Ebay

https://www.popsike.c...nr=120541942011

that is a 100% definite original.

As opposed to the bootleg - there's one on ebay now bidded up to £72 and finishing tomorrow night ...

https://www.ebay.co.u...=item336be45f77

... and just after, another one at £8.99 - this seems to be a supply as it has been on many times over the last few weeks.

Even with an upside down small scan, you can see the differences without having to worry about miniscule stamps under the label.

Cheers

Mick

[Robbk]

Mark, you need to know about Monarchs pressing code: it's a 5 figure number (changing to a 6 figure number circa 1975) and it is invaluable for dating manufacturing dates of records. For instance, an original record from the mid 60's would start with a 5, 6 or 7, pressings/bootlegs from the mid 70's tend to start with an 8, 9 or 0. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure someone has the key somewhere.

I've got a key for Monarch. I got it in early 1970, so min is only good from Monarch's beginning, in 1954, through 1969. It has the code for the last record pressed for each month through all those16 years. # 78959 was the last record pressed in December of 1969. So, any 5-numeral code starting with an 8 or 9 was pressed up in the 1970s, and any 6 numeral code was pressed after 1973. Monarch pressed up about 4,500 to 5,000 different 45s each year during the 1960s. I remember them pressing about 5-10% more in the early 1970s.

[Rotherham Soul]

Pressing plant info

https://www.anoraksco...gPlantInfo.html