Is The 'Upfront' Soul Scene Disappearing Up It'S Own A*se?

[Guest Matt Male]

If I look back at myself with honesty, the first several times I went to Top Of The World Stafford, I didn't rate it. I was stuck in an oldies / wigan classics mentality then, only went as I considered myself "on the scene". A few more visits and some familiarity creeping in . . . . . "Ok they're playing some good sounds". Time passes, and now the records played at Stafford are amongst my personal favourites. I think it is a bit of an attitude shift. You can say "each to their own", but I can't help to see my own point, that some (not all) of the oldies crowd are like me in my first visits to Stafford, not listening because you're listening for something else. My experience is that most of the up-front crowd (more often scattered few) do appreciate oldies, but not the same play lists week-in, week-out, without imagination or respect for original reference. There a a few good oldies nights that do play with imagination, but then you're caught playing to the floor-fillers that do want the same set week-in, week-out.

Somewhere along the way I think some have given up on listening and rely on reminiscing. I had an attitude change and have listened since Stafford.

Spot on. I don't know what happened to that Stafford spirit of discovery either for some. Body snatchers?

[Guest Beeks]

Any respectable DJ..of any music genre..throughout the history of music..has always searched out new sounds..whether it be the likes of the Wheel DJs bringing the first R&B records back from the states..John Peel getting onto the latest prog rock sound..or more recent pioneering DJs such as Junior Vasquez in the New York House Music halcyon days..

No respectable DJ wants to play a set made up from records everyone knows...it's what makes any exclusive or underground music movement tick..that search for the new sounds..the next dancefloor smasher

There are plenty of DJs who have already posted on this thread who live by the above principles and they are to be commended..but a lot of the time it's a case of flogging a dead horse

A lot of people on this scene just don't want to hear new records..they want to hear the same tunes they listened to when they were teens..dress like they did in their teens..talk about how much better the clubs were in their teens

One big youthclub..no mystery there

I was a teen of the 80s..It's like me listening to Spandeau Ballet..Duran Duran and The Cocteau Twins..every weekend..same songs..in my piano tie..chinos and rope soled slip on deck shoes..talking to likeminded folk about the benefits of Clive Sinclairs C5

I don't want to be introduced to new Bananarama tunes..and that unreleased acetate of Tears For Fears holds no interest..because they didn't play it at my local hall when I was in my puberty years..

Familiar?

Two separate crowds

One Nostalgic

One Chasing the new

And never the twain shall meet

[Mace]

If I look back at myself with honesty, the first several times I went to Top Of The World Stafford, I didn't rate it. I was stuck in an oldies / wigan classics mentality then, only went as I considered myself "on the scene". A few more visits and some familiarity creeping in . . . . . "Ok they're playing some good sounds". Time passes, and now the records played at Stafford are amongst my personal favourites. I think it is a bit of an attitude shift. You can say "each to their own", but I can't help to see my own point, that some (not all) of the oldies crowd are like me in my first visits to Stafford, not listening because you're listening for something else. My experience is that most of the up-front crowd (more often scattered few) do appreciate oldies, but not the same play lists week-in, week-out, without imagination or respect for original reference. There a a few good oldies nights that do play with imagination, but then you're caught playing to the floor-fillers that do want the same set week-in, week-out.

Somewhere along the way I think some have given up on listening and rely on reminiscing. I had an attitude change and have listened since Stafford.

That's a great post, and sums it up BOB ON!

Can some-one more organised than myself, please copy this post to file and paste up on any subsequent mind numbing threads to save us all precious hours of our lives playing groundhog day with this, and similar discussion points!

Job done......Close this thread now Len, and do a Bobby Paris........

[Geeselad]

So being a collector is now a negative? Unclean,unclean...Lots do both - dance and collect.I always get the impression those who dance the most dont collect....a problem for who?

NO cause its not, but not dancing is, and there is a sizable proportion of collectors that dont dance and maybe a few more on the rare scene than on the oldies curcuit, just an observation.

[Steve G]

maybe something to do with a larger proportion of the rare crowd being collectors, rather than dancers, oops I maybe accidently hit on one of the problems...........

But Geese there's always been collectors, you couldn't move at the bar at Wigan on many nights. Dancing isn't mandatory for goodness sake, and I say that as a collector who does dance.

Any respectable DJ..of any music genre..throughout the history of music..has always searched out new sounds..whether it be the likes of the Wheel DJs bringing the first R&B records back from the states..John Peel getting onto the latest prog rock sound..or more recent pioneering DJs such as Junior Vasquez in the New York House Music halcyon days..

No respectable DJ wants to play a set made up from records everyone knows...it's what makes any exclusive or underground music movement tick..that search for the new sounds..the next dancefloor smasher

There are plenty of DJs who have already posted on this thread who live by the above principles and they are to be commended..but a lot of the time it's a case of flogging a dead horse

A lot of people on this scene just don't want to hear new records..they want to hear the same tunes they listened to when they were teens..dress like they did in their teens..talk about how much better the clubs were in their teens

One big youthclub..no mystery there

I was a teen of the 80s..It's like me listening to Spandeau Ballet..Duran Duran and The Cocteau Twins..every weekend..same songs..in my piano tie..chinos and rope soled slip on deck shoes..talking to likeminded folk about the benefits of Clive Sinclairs C5

I don't want to be introduced to new Bananarama tunes..and that unreleased acetate of Tears For Fears holds no interest..because they didn't play it at my local hall when I was in my puberty years..

Familiar?

Two separate crowds

One Nostalgic

One Chasing the new

And never the twain shall meet

Post of the day for me. Bang on the money.

[Guest Bearsy]

If I look back at myself with honesty, the first several times I went to Top Of The World Stafford, I didn't rate it. I was stuck in an oldies / wigan classics mentality then, only went as I considered myself "on the scene". A few more visits and some familiarity creeping in . . . . . "Ok they're playing some good sounds". Time passes, and now the records played at Stafford are amongst my personal favourites. I think it is a bit of an attitude shift. You can say "each to their own", but I can't help to see my own point, that some (not all) of the oldies crowd are like me in my first visits to Stafford, not listening because you're listening for something else. My experience is that most of the up-front crowd (more often scattered few) do appreciate oldies, but not the same play lists week-in, week-out, without imagination or respect for original reference. There a a few good oldies nights that do play with imagination, but then you're caught playing to the floor-fillers that do want the same set week-in, week-out.

Somewhere along the way I think some have given up on listening and rely on reminiscing. I had an attitude change and have listened since Stafford.

i love the bit where you say "they are not listening they are listening for something else "

[Guest Bearsy]

Any respectable DJ..of any music genre..throughout the history of music..has always searched out new sounds..whether it be the likes of the Wheel DJs bringing the first R&B records back from the states..John Peel getting onto the latest prog rock sound..or more recent pioneering DJs such as Junior Vasquez in the New York House Music halcyon days..

No respectable DJ wants to play a set made up from records everyone knows...it's what makes any exclusive or underground music movement tick..that search for the new sounds..the next dancefloor smasher

There are plenty of DJs who have already posted on this thread who live by the above principles and they are to be commended..but a lot of the time it's a case of flogging a dead horse

A lot of people on this scene just don't want to hear new records..they want to hear the same tunes they listened to when they were teens..dress like they did in their teens..talk about how much better the clubs were in their teens

One big youthclub..no mystery there

I was a teen of the 80s..It's like me listening to Spandeau Ballet..Duran Duran and The Cocteau Twins..every weekend..same songs..in my piano tie..chinos and rope soled slip on deck shoes..talking to likeminded folk about the benefits of Clive Sinclairs C5

I don't want to be introduced to new Bananarama tunes..and that unreleased acetate of Tears For Fears holds no interest..because they didn't play it at my local hall when I was in my puberty years..

Familiar?

Two separate crowds

One Nostalgic

One Chasing the new

And never the twain shall meet

and they all drive around in mk2 escorts and drink harp lager while watching top of the pops waiting for Footsie to come on so they can paractice their slpins and back drops

spot on Beeks

[Jumpinjoan]

It is unfortunate that it has been tagged 'upfront' seeings as they are all 'old' records (the majority anyway).

I would guess that every person playing records at events across the country will play a record that is new to someone. A record that is new to me might be well known or even overplayed to others. But so what? We all join this soul journey at different stages and we all hear tunes at different times - there is no right or wrong here.

Pete Lawson once said to me - if a record has that 'magic touch' it is as good the last time you heard it, as it was the first time you heard it, no matter how many times you've heard it. The lad was right.

One thing's for sure - it's not about us. The soul scene will carry on without any of us on it. The music is bigger than any DJ, any venue, any ego.

[Pat Bleasdale]

It is unfortunate that it has been tagged 'upfront' seeings as they are all 'old' records (the majority anyway).

I would guess that every person playing records at events across the country will play a record that is new to someone. A record that is new to me might be well known or even overplayed to others. But so what? We all join this soul journey at different stages and we all hear tunes at different times - there is no right or wrong here.

Pete Lawson once said to me - if a record has that 'magic touch' it is as good the last time you heard it, as it was the first time you heard it, no matter how many times you've heard it. The lad was right.

One thing's for sure - it's not about us. The soul scene will carry on without any of us on it. The music is bigger than any DJ, any venue, any ego.

Spot On Joan..

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Sometimes you fancy fish and chips, sometimes you fancy a curry, or a mexican. Other times something different or refreshingly modern and new that is slightly against the grain....maybe. Variety = spice of life. But those comfy slippers, no matter how tattered, are still current and deserve a little respect and tolerance (bit like your parents ha ha!).

Edited September 23, 2011 by Carl Dixon

[Val (Chunky)]

One thing's for sure - it's not about us. The soul scene will carry on without any of us on it. The music is bigger than any DJ, any venue, any ego.

[Len]

Maybe it is time to close the thread (Not sure how to actually) But let’s see if anyone wants to add anything that’s not already been said. This wasn’t intended to go over old ground and I think there’s been some interesting posts.

Never the twain shall meet aye? What a shame, as to me both sorts of venue have lots to offer, most folk who attend upfront events also enjoy oldies events and I think the folk who only attend oldies events (Some of the 1500) would most definitely enjoy the more upfront events.

All the best,

Len.

Edited September 23, 2011 by LEN

[Steve G]

But in answer to your question Len - after 5 pages . No it's not. I think there will continue to be people who are looking for new soul sounds, and people who are looking to go out and hear new sounds as well. Maybe not in an aircraft hanger, and maybe a smaller scene, but as long as we're going, we'll be doing it somewhere.

[Steve L]

Maybe it is time to close the thread (Not sure how to actually) But let’s see if anyone wants to add anything that’s not already been said. This wasn’t intended to go over old ground and I think there’s been some interesting posts.

Never the twain shall meet aye? What a shame, as to me both sorts of venue have lots to offer, most folk who attend upfront events also enjoy oldies events and I think the folk who only attend oldies events (Some of the 1500) would most definitely enjoy the more upfront events.

All the best,

Len.

Very true Len, a lot of people are missing out on hearing some fantastic music due to certain misconceptions - thats the real shame of all this.

[Guest Andy Kempster]

i am more than happy to go to stoke knowing that i am in for a night of oldies and when going there i know exactly which hat to wear.

stoke allnighter new years eve.......best place in the world, awesome atmosphere, could this be said for an upfront do, probably not as much

however....on all or most other occasions something different is what i want.

[Winnie :-)]

Perhaps the answer to why the two scenes won't collide lies in the 'oldies' fan's perception of the people on the upfront scene?

[Len]

Perhaps the answer to why the two scenes won't collide lies in the 'oldies' fan's perception of the people on the upfront scene?

Yep, that's exactly what I was trying to get at Win (Hence the rather strong title)

All the best,

Len.

[Len]

But in answer to your question Len - after 5 pages . No it's not. I think there will continue to be people who are looking for new soul sounds, and people who are looking to go out and hear new sounds as well. Maybe not in an aircraft hanger, and maybe a smaller scene, but as long as we're going, we'll be doing it somewhere.

Damn right mate - The soul events in my Kitchen are awesome, the beers cheap to! lol

Len.

[Winnie :-)]

Yep, that's exactly what I was trying to get at Win (Hence the rather strong title)

All the best,

Len.

Then you've got to ask why aren't oldies fans all over this topic, in fact I think you did make reference to it, but still few have come forward?

[Little-stevie]

It is unfortunate that it has been tagged 'upfront' seeings as they are all 'old' records (the majority anyway).

I would guess that every person playing records at events across the country will play a record that is new to someone. A record that is new to me might be well known or even overplayed to others. But so what? We all join this soul journey at different stages and we all hear tunes at different times - there is no right or wrong here.

Pete Lawson once said to me - if a record has that 'magic touch' it is as good the last time you heard it, as it was the first time you heard it, no matter how many times you've heard it. The lad was right.

One thing's for sure - it's not about us. The soul scene will carry on without any of us on it. The music is bigger than any DJ, any venue, any ego.

you speak with such clarity for a person from Preston..... ...

Good post and so so true....

The 2 scenes, moldie oldies and Up front you c"nt ..

Maybe another scene for the us in betweenies, like the song says.. " something old, something new,"...

" I'm just an itsy bitsy teenie weenie lover of soul an in betweenie " la la la la la...

[Little-stevie]

duplicated..

Edited September 23, 2011 by little-stevie

[Guest alison]

No idea if I am up front, back to front or upside down half the time. Can I just like it all please ?

[Guest Phil Armstrong]

Could it be a lot simpler in that some people are progressive by nature and some not and choice doesn’t really come into it?

[Little-stevie]

No idea if I am up front, back to front or upside down half the time. Can I just like it all please ?

yes you can.. join us.. The underplayed in betweenies

No idea if I am up front, back to front or upside down half the time. Can I just like it all please ?

So your a bit of this and a bit of that, you lick the stamps on both sides ... join the club..

[Guest brummiemick]

For what its worth, I really dont know what the difference is between Upfront, Rare and Underplayed other than what the names suggest - and ultimately I dont care as long as the soul music is great and it creates the right buzz.

For me a DJ's role must be to first and foremost entertain their guests - if this is achieved everyone is happy - if not people go elsewhere. Reading through this thread it would appear that the vast majority, irrespective of their personal likes, see Northern Soul as a single "religion" with many churches. As a "Johny come lately" my sense is that there is far more unity and respect for the sub genres than debates like this suggest.

Edited September 23, 2011 by brummiemick

[Steve L]

Then you've got to ask why aren't oldies fans all over this topic, in fact I think you did make reference to it, but still few have come forward?

Winnie as we all know this and similar topics have been done to death time and again over the life of soul source . I'm not sure if I'm entirely right here but it seems to me that the "oldies only" people are never quite as vocal in putting their side of the debate over.

You get the odd one saying "I like what I like and thats it" etc but maybe they dont have the same passion (in general) as those who are constantly striving to hear new records and broaden their knowledge? Contentious point I know

[Winnie :-)]

Winnie as we all know this and similar topics have been done to death time and again over the life of soul source . I'm not sure if I'm entirely right here but it seems to me that the "oldies only" people are never quite as vocal in putting their side of the debate over.

You get the odd one saying "I like what I like and thats it" etc but maybe they dont have the same passion (in general) as those who are constantly striving to hear new records and broaden their knowledge? Contentious point I know

I agree with you when taken in the context of Soul Source, oldies fans rarely comment, but go onto facebook and there are threads all over the place and there you'll get that alternative view.

On your second point, their passion is reserved for records they know and the scene they remember, and want to preserve, so I don't think it's directly one ''side'' has more passion than the other, just both are pulling in different directions, hence like many others I now think there are two distinct scenes, both IMO are relevant, it's then down to individual taste which path you want to follow.

[Len]

Winnie as we all know this and similar topics have been done to death time and again over the life of soul source . I'm not sure if I'm entirely right here but it seems to me that the "oldies only" people are never quite as vocal in putting their side of the debate over.

You get the odd one saying "I like what I like and thats it" etc but maybe they dont have the same passion (in general) as those who are constantly striving to hear new records and broaden their knowledge? Contentious point I know

Hi Steve,

In my experience, the "oldies only" people have been very vocal, but that's another story (Or three! lol) But your right, not on here.

I enjoy 'both' scenes and look forward to Stevie's 'Inbetweeny' scene developing - Then we can have a debate about that too lol

All the best,

Len.

[Dysonsoul]

Only just had a quick flick through the thread,which mirror's passion and loyalty from the "traditionalists" and the more "forward music " followers.One point that i feel is important and relevant -from lifeline's perspective (i'm not wanting this to be a lifeline thread,only mentioned because this is how it is /was) on a regular lifeline niter i'd say 50-60% of the patrons are of a forward music persuasion and the other 40% are of a traditional persuasion ,all get on famously as it should be ! only the odd basic oldie request which does get played if in that particular dj's box who is asked for it - more importantly the traditionalists dance and dance and are usually the ones that stay the duration..the rub is they are actually reacting to the more recent discoveries with the same passion as some of the more familiar tunes and i'm sure aren't actually aware.... also they turn out to pretty much every one ,where as the forward thinkers are as always the fickle ones and are hit and miss,infact a fair portion of patrons come once and never come again maybe 30 people everytime,but are replaced by another 30 who don't come again.This i feel is unique and only happens cos of the location (on the whole a die hard old school oldies fraternity) the net result lifeline's ethos in a venue the size of the stables is unsubstainable without the support of the local traditionalist's -for that we are very grateful !

The "upfront" side of things has to be very careful,too many venues,too close on the callender to each other-there's probably room for one top notch upfront niter per month and probably one upfront soul nite - but they have to have the very best cutting edge records available and have to convince the owners of them tunes that what package they are putting together is something worth turning out for ! otherwise the "upfront" scene will continue to kill itself from within by the very people who are within.That would be a crime cos the music is there the dj's are there and the punters are certainly there.

[Len]

Good post that sums it up nicely Andy.

I sat on this thread starter for quite some time as I was worried it may back fire on me and I wouldn’t be able to go out again! - I’m so glad you all understood what I was getting at.

Ref not listening which was mentioned in an earlier post, I’m guilty of this myself - Since going to Burnley I’ve got to appreciate some Good R’n’B - ‘O.V Wright - Love The Way You Love’, ‘Anne Peebles - 99lbs’ to name just a couple (Thanks to Willies C.D’s!)

I was careful not to mention any particular venue but it was inevitable that Life-line was going to be mentioned. The D.J’s Life-line use are not at the top of their game for nothing, they have about 100 years experience each and so much to offer, I hope some of the ‘1500’ will at least give the ‘Upfront’ side of things a go sometime.

To conclude in the words of Randy Cozens, “This thing of ours” - It’s great, let’s keep it that way.

All the best,

Len.

P.s - I’ve just been dancing round the kitchen with my three year old daughter Tabitha to ‘Young Brothers - What’s Your Name’ F*ckin’ great! That’s what it’s all about! :O)

Edited September 25, 2011 by LEN

[Wiggyflat]

Can I have a list of the 10 biggest Upfront current sounds to listen to and I can decide whether I'm oldies or upfront.

[Len]

Can I have a list of the 10 biggest Upfront current sounds to listen to and I can decide whether I'm oldies or upfront.

Over to you Chalky!

Len.

[Chalky]

Over to you Chalky!

Len.

Don't think there is a top 10? Maybe he should come along at the end of October to Lifeline and he can well and truly decide for himself. Besides my brain is mush right now

[Chalky]

Click on the website and podcast link in my signature Wiggy, go to podcasts and listen to Andy Dyson's set..........

[Winnie :-)]

Can I have a list of the 10 biggest Upfront current sounds to listen to and I can decide whether I'm oldies or upfront.

Surely the idea of upfront is to continually play something different, so you couldn't really have a top ten, could you?

[Chalky]

Surely the idea of upfront is to continually play something different, so you couldn't really have a top ten, could you?

That's true Win but it does take time to "break" a sound these days, can be a number of years to get something universally accepted across the scene or even on a part of the scene, Joseph Webster, Sensations (Demanding Man) two examples. There just isn't the volume of new discoveries to sustain a continuous turn over of records on a weekly/monthly basis but by and large it is kept pretty fresh with tracks being dropped and others brought in.

[Guest]

DJ'd at a Southampton Soul Club 'Motown Memories' night in Hampshire last night and some of the DJ's were pressured into playing what some of the scene orientated crowd present called 'cheese' ,but it never ceases to amaze me as to the levels of unbridled enthusiasm certain types of people exhibit as they frollick around the floor to 'My Guy' or 'Stop in the name of love' etc, etc... Has fascinated me for years...How is it that people can visually react with such obvious excitement to these records - as if they are hearing them for the first time! - I suppose at the end of the day, there are certain types of psychiatric 'brain settings' which define our enthusiasm either for the new or the familar or the downright utterly hammered and if we could look at everybody's individual lives, we'd probably find other patterns that reflect this..I reckon you'd see a lot of oldies only fans are probably pretty staid, predictable people in their overall life patterns wheras the people who still love to hear new sounds may well appear to be more innovative, less predictable or adventurous in their general approach to life...If there is any truth in this whatsoever and I believe there is - then it would take an enormous tidal change to change people's musical habits on the scene...and given the age group we are looking at, the likelihood of mass 'life examination' excercises is highly unlikely...more likely is that things will continue in exactly the same way until there is hardly anybody left to populate either sides of the scene and then it will end...perhaps we really would be better off just enjoying what we each enjoy and cherishing every minute we are still able to celebrate....rather than endlessly analyzing what makes those who are not like us 'tick'...Because the answer is probably way beyond the realms of our/their particular affections for Soul Music....

[Wiggyflat]

Click on the website and podcast link in my signature Wiggy, go to podcasts and listen to Andy Dyson's set..........

Thanks for the link and gave it a good listen....I'm afraid I'm not upfront.The Ralph Jackson was great,Johnny Praye is amazing (I knew that one anyway),the King Cobras was good,Harvey Scales Trackdown not bad,Wally Coco is great (knew that one).I thought the Clay Brown was poor.There are too many mid tempo records for my liking.The beat is missing!!! I can see why the oldies fans won't crossover.It is mostly good music to listen to at home but not my cuppa t when I want to dance all night.Heres a mix I did for youtube.This is more my cuppat.

.

[Chalky]

Thanks for the link and gave it a good listen....I'm afraid I'm not upfront.The Ralph Jackson was great,Johnny Praye is amazing (I knew that one anyway),the King Cobras was good,Harvey Scales Trackdown not bad,Wally Coco is great (knew that one).I thought the Clay Brown was poor.There are too many mid tempo records for my liking.The beat is missing!!! I can see why the oldies fans won't crossover.It is mostly good music to listen to at home but not my cuppa t when I want to dance all night.

It isn't fully representative of what is played, not totally, as you say some of them don't have the beat for dancing, they are simply something different to listen to. Some of them are played out, Proffs, Richard Marks etc. Like I said earlier, come along to Lifeline and then judge it for yourself over a full night, not over a few tunes in a podcast, thats not even giving it a chance is it really?

[Len]

Thanks for the link and gave it a good listen....I'm afraid I'm not upfront.The Ralph Jackson was great,Johnny Praye is amazing (I knew that one anyway),the King Cobras was good,Harvey Scales Trackdown not bad,Wally Coco is great (knew that one).I thought the Clay Brown was poor.There are too many mid tempo records for my liking.The beat is missing!!! I can see why the oldies fans won't crossover.It is mostly good music to listen to at home but not my cuppa t when I want to dance all night.Heres a mix I did for youtube.This is more my cuppat.

.

Some great tracks there mate and some great photos! - Is that John Vincent and and Soul Sam in one?!!! Well I recon you would love Life-line, give it a try and if you don't like it Chalky can give you your entrance fee back! lol - I don't think you would regret a visit for one moment.

All the best,

Len.

Edited September 25, 2011 by LEN

[Wiggyflat]

Will give the other podcasts a listen.....

[Len]

p.s - Loved the flyer showing 8p entrance fee for two ref The Torch in 1971 - I would of been one years old! lol

Len.

Edited September 25, 2011 by LEN

[Guest]

will not listen or collect 60s or 70s Soul records unless I have already heard them at least 1000 times.

only go to places that play records that everyone knows and has heard 1000 times.

only dance to records that everybody knows, and have danced to 1000 times.

Long live " Northern Soul Scene" "Keep the faith" etc

personally..........i think even the most ardent oldies fan will get bored with just this format over and over in the end.

Its only human nature

new old music........that's what I like ! And new music that sounds old !!!

I need to hear new (to me) records every week .......as much as possible............. that's what keeps me interested in collecting.

everyone loves the oldies, but the oldies scene seems to be ruining the great classic 45s by overplaying and not bringing new MUSICAL LIFE in to the party !

The oldies only people are killing the scene by not investigating the still underplayed and semi known records.

It can't and will not survive long like that !

In my opinion

And I base that on what I have read on this site and other conversations with people.

Not as a scene person.

Edited September 25, 2011 by luiz arruda paez

[Guest Bearsy]

Some great tracks there mate and some great photos! - Is that John Vincent and and Soul Sam in one?!!! Well I recon you would love Life-line, give it a try and if you don't like it Chalky can give you your entrance fee back! lol - I don't think you would regret a visit for one moment.

All the best,

Len.

Len there is no way he would like Lifeline if he likes that kind of stuff, truely awful sounds imho and if thats what Oldies venues is all about im defo more intrested to hear stuff thats on the Upfront scene, i would rather dance to music with no beat than that lot

sorry i dont mean to be offensive but just trying to be honest

[Ted Massey]

Thats brutal Bearsy but got to admit i prefer the Pod cast and as i have previously stated the 3.5 hours at Lifeline (Andy Dyson, Arthur Fenn and Butch) was the best i have ever heard and ive been going to venues since dont want to be reminded

[Val (Chunky)]

Click on the website and podcast link in my signature Wiggy, go to podcasts and listen to Andy Dyson's set..........

indeed Chalky, that 'The Gospel According To Andy Dyson' is a bleedin cracking set

[Guest Bearsy]

Thats brutal Bearsy but got to admit i prefer the Pod cast and as i have previously stated the 3.5 hours at Lifeline (Andy Dyson, Arthur Fenn and Butch) was the best i have ever heard and ive been going to venues since dont want to be reminded

yeah maybe a tad brutal so maybe i should of just said that the youtube wasnt to my taste, so sorry Wiggy hope no offence taken

[Scotters]

Blimey Len...Your thread sure now takes some time to read through for anyone opening it for the first time! Some interesting debate and comments for sure.

"Oldies" v "upfront" / "oldies" v "newies" / "uptempo" v "midtempo" / "rare" v "not so rare" / "R&B" v "soul" / "modern" v "whatever" etc etc....It all starts to look like a set of football fixtures on a weekend, where the scores change week in week out.

My fairly simple take on all this is that we each have a different bandwidth and preferred frequency when it comes to music taste generally, influenced by parents, fiends we grew up with, the pubs and clubs we went to as teens and then as young adults...carrying on to mid-life, retirement age and beyond (hopefully!)

It's been said on here enough so I won't repeat the obvious that "we're all individuals" etc (bit like the Life of Brian film..where in one scene Brian says something like "You don't need me....You are ALL individuals", the majority shout "Yes...Yes we are" and then someone pipes up "I'm not"! ) so I guess there will ALWAYS be music / events which cater for all tastes. In the case of a soul night, that might be a specialised night for the minority, or a generalist night for the majority.

Having been into all kinds of soul / jazz / funk / hip hop / dance music since I started listening and buying music 28 odd years ago, I realised last year that I was only skimming the surface of 60's / 70's soul, particularly northern soul. Thanks to certain individuals I've met and events I've attended, I think I now need a submarine (and more time / money!) to get to the depths of the soul sea!

As Lifeline has been mentioned many times on this thread, I don't mind saying that I only learned of this event about a year ago, and then from reading various posts on SoulSource, I'd somehow got it in my mind that it sounded like a bit of a "members club" where those who attend go all the time and anyone new might stand out (so to speak). Maybe thought it a bit "intimidating" for some reason and actually didn't really know anyone who went or wanted to go, so no way I was going to go on my own!

Thanks to Len, having had my first experience of Lifeline a month or two ago (soon after attending Boomerang for the first time....which I guess in the context of this thread can also be classed as a small "upfront" single room event), I won't hesitate to go to both these events and others like them whenever I can, as I thought the music was amazing and most of the people seemed very friendly. Add to this the fact there are well stocked record sales boxes to sift through (dangerous, but so good!), then that's soul heaven to me.

The solution to keeping these kind of nights going strong is simple in my eyes...Anyone who regularly attends them, make it their mission to physically take someone along they maybe know is into soul / dance music generally, or someone they've seen around at other events, coz if they're anything like me and have an open mind where music is concerned, they won't be disappointed and they'll go again + maybe tell their mates etc.

Will there ever be 1500 people at such events? I very much doubt it, and in some ways I hope not, as the style of music played coupled with the intimacy and atmosphere of a smaller venue where you can actually have some room to express yourself on the dancefloor, or just socialise generally and actually spot people you maybe know or have seen around and can chat to, is what makes these single room nights so good.

In terms of DJ's at such events and the class of records played, I'll probably get shot down for saying this but I'll use the football analogy again...it's Premiership from what I've experienced so far. I support Luton most weeks, but I like to watch the odd Premiership game too (if you see what I mean!).

All the best, Steve.

[Winnie :-)]

Thanks for the link and gave it a good listen....I'm afraid I'm not upfront.The Ralph Jackson was great,Johnny Praye is amazing (I knew that one anyway),the King Cobras was good,Harvey Scales Trackdown not bad,Wally Coco is great (knew that one).I thought the Clay Brown was poor.There are too many mid tempo records for my liking.The beat is missing!!! I can see why the oldies fans won't crossover.It is mostly good music to listen to at home but not my cuppa t when I want to dance all night.Heres a mix I did for youtube.This is more my cuppat.

.

Really liked it, would definitely dance to most of those tracks, very traditional, nice one :thumbsup:

[Winnie :-)]

Only just had a quick flick through the thread,which mirror's passion and loyalty from the "traditionalists" and the more "forward music " followers.One point that i feel is important and relevant -from lifeline's perspective (i'm not wanting this to be a lifeline thread,only mentioned because this is how it is /was) on a regular lifeline niter i'd say 50-60% of the patrons are of a forward music persuasion and the other 40% are of a traditional persuasion ,all get on famously as it should be ! only the odd basic oldie request which does get played if in that particular dj's box who is asked for it - more importantly the traditionalists dance and dance and are usually the ones that stay the duration..the rub is they are actually reacting to the more recent discoveries with the same passion as some of the more familiar tunes and i'm sure aren't actually aware.... also they turn out to pretty much every one ,where as the forward thinkers are as always the fickle ones and are hit and miss,infact a fair portion of patrons come once and never come again maybe 30 people everytime,but are replaced by another 30 who don't come again.This i feel is unique and only happens cos of the location (on the whole a die hard old school oldies fraternity) the net result lifeline's ethos in a venue the size of the stables is unsubstainable without the support of the local traditionalist's -for that we are very grateful !

The "upfront" side of things has to be very careful,too many venues,too close on the callender to each other-there's probably room for one top notch upfront niter per month and probably one upfront soul nite - but they have to have the very best cutting edge records available and have to convince the owners of them tunes that what package they are putting together is something worth turning out for ! otherwise the "upfront" scene will continue to kill itself from within by the very people who are within.That would be a crime cos the music is there the dj's are there and the punters are certainly there.

I've gone back to this post because for me it's the best one on here. Has complete humility, no Bobby big Bollocks stuff here, recognises that the oldies crowd supplements the upfront, no criticism of oldies, in favour of underplayed. No snide digs, the sort of post that if an oldies fan read, he/she could get on board with and think they'd be welcomed and maybe prompted to give Lifeline a go.