Numpty-Style Query - Run-Off Matrix

[Guest soulboy1965]

Folks

Although I've been a soul fan and vinyl collector for quite a few years, there's still one thing which confuses me (probably more than one, but what the heck), and that involves the serial number in the run-off.

I've always assumed that for a record to be an original it HAD to have a stamped matrix, however others have told me that this isn't (wasn't) always the case with records which had very small quantities produced.

Can anyone enlighten me?

For example, would one expect The Epitome Of Sound to have a stamped matrix or not? Or The Steinways or The Showmen? etc etc

And........if stamped matrices aren't "compulsory, then how the flip do you tell an original from a boot?

Mark

[Pete S]

Every record is different. A record may have been pressed on both the East Coast and the West Coast for instance; one will have a stamped number, one will have a scratched number. I would say the majority of records do have some kind of factory stamp somewhere in the grooves, but again, you have to know what you're looking for. It's a minefield, and it takes years and years of experience to fully understand it. In the case of Epitome Of Sound, the original issue is no problem as it was never booted on a cream issue. But there is a counterfeit demo and you need to know that it has a dip just before the centre hole. See what I mean?

[Anoraks Corner]

In the case of Epitome Of Sound, the original issue is no problem as it was never booted on a cream issue. But there is a counterfeit demo and you need to know that it has a dip just before the centre hole.

...and originals have a raised stamp under the label, in that example

You may enjoy the page on my site devoted to deadwax markings, Mark:

https://www.anorakscorner.com/PressingPlantInfo.html

[Scotters]

Not a "numpty" question at all IMO, as confuses the hell out of me for sure. Interesting thanks. Just checked and found the raised stamp under the Epitome of Sound label, which I never knew existed even though I was sure it was a pukka issue. Any more 45's like that anyone?

Thanks for posting the link Flynny...That is SERIOUS anorak territory for sure, having just had a quick peek, but I'll be having a proper read through sometime and have stored for future reference. PS...Thanks again for the real quick delivery & strong packaging for the 45 I had form you last week!

Cheers, Steve

[Hill868]

Got a copy of the 7 Dwarfs ' Stop girl ' on IDEAL 168 i've always assumed as a boot, now seem to think it could be a proper one, due to the info on Manship's current auction site - has the 1168 with oddly scratched 8 in the run-out, any more info greatly appreciated. By the way, don't actually like this record much, heavy stomping US garage psyche that was popular for a while at Notts. Palais around 1977 ! Jez.

[George G]

I know that while most of the RCA and CBS/Columbia pressings used stamps, it's not a hard and fast rule. The stamp vs etched shows up a lot in regards to 50s/early 60s doowop and rockabilly counterfeits (aka boots). Going into the 1960s, the plants did not not always stamp everything so you have to be more knowledgeable and look for clues like the stamp for the pressing plant location in regards to RCA customs (the I/H/R stamps).

Other than RCA or Columbia, the only other plant that seemed to rely on stamped numbers was the plant in Richmond, IN that pressed a lot of the Mercury family 45s (they also did custom pressings like the Vondells on Airtown).

I don't know why more operations did not use stamps. I'm guessing it required extra equipment, probably good for the places mentioned that obviously had the highest volume, and not cost effective for smaller runs where it was cheaper to have the person cutting the 'mother' to inscribe by hand (I'm assuming that the stamps were added in the process of making the 'mother').

[Russ Vickers]

Not a "numpty" question at all IMO, as confuses the hell out of me for sure. Interesting thanks. Just checked and found the raised stamp under the Epitome of Sound label, which I never knew existed even though I was sure it was a pukka issue. Any more 45's like that anyone?

Thanks for posting the link Flynny...That is SERIOUS anorak territory for sure, having just had a quick peek, but I'll be having a proper read through sometime and have stored for future reference. PS...Thanks again for the real quick delivery & strong packaging for the 45 I had form you last week!

Cheers, Steve

Yes, the Royal Five - Say it to My Face has a raised stamp under the label too.......another odditie in recognition that come to mind are the 'double dimples' on the Salvadors original.

Best Russ

[Pete S]

Got a copy of the 7 Dwarfs ' Stop girl ' on IDEAL 168 i've always assumed as a boot, now seem to think it could be a proper one, due to the info on Manship's current auction site - has the 1168 with oddly scratched 8 in the run-out, any more info greatly appreciated. By the way, don't actually like this record much, heavy stomping US garage psyche that was popular for a while at Notts. Palais around 1977 ! Jez.

I love it now, didn't like it much then, not so much as a Northern record but as a great garage track

[Geeselad]

Got a copy of the 7 Dwarfs ' Stop girl ' on IDEAL 168 i've always assumed as a boot, now seem to think it could be a proper one, due to the info on Manship's current auction site - has the 1168 with oddly scratched 8 in the run-out, any more info greatly appreciated. By the way, don't actually like this record much, heavy stomping US garage psyche that was popular for a while at Notts. Palais around 1977 ! Jez.

some like this are exceptionaly hard to spot

[Guest]

raised stamp under label. Edited August 30, 2011 by ken