Blinkin Heck

Chalky · August 27, 2011

firstly i'm not your mate and i have no intention to speak to you,i don't know who you are and where your from, what i do know is you know nothing about rare soul .
i probably have better records and their original in sale box than you have in your collection.

you wasn't even born when great venues like Blackpool mecca ,Wigan casino, to experience rare records being played.
stop being a t***pot and get a battery for your brain.

You shouldn't keep brag about what you've got cause there's always someone better with better round the corner, and does having expensive originals make you better than others? Not in my book, I'd sooner see a collection thats taken imagination not a cheque book.

And what has the venues you've attended got to do with experience and/or knowledge? F*ck all.

MrsWoodsrules · August 27, 2011

Calm down guys!

Go listen to Bull, Bygones, that'll chill you all out.

August 27, 2011

Dunno what the problem is but take it off line please. Giant, I asked you before is there any need for the type of posts you've posted on this topic, three and they've all been antagonistic. You got the reaction from Geeselad because of you original posts to MrsWoodsrules, what do you expect? Give it a rest please.

okay Chalky , i hope you said the same to Geeselad.

thanks

August 27, 2011

You shouldn't keep brag about what you've got cause there's always someone better with better round the corner, and does having expensive originals make you better than others? Not in my book, I'd sooner see a collection thats taken imagination not a cheque book.

And what has the venues you've attended got to do with experience and/or knowledge? F*ck all.

hi Chalky , i never once mentioned anything about having expensive records, i buy five pound record if i like it

and fivehundred pound record if i can afford it, and as for cheque book i thought their obsolete now a days.

Godzilla · August 27, 2011

Geeselad · August 27, 2011

I sincerely hope to of caused no real offence to you Giant, or any others, I just thought your comments were out of order and insulting, and didnt read them as a joke, maybe I shouldnt of stuck my nose in the first place, but I cant stand by and watch people apparantly belittle others, its a curse thats always caused me problems. I could go on about your apparant ellitist attitiude and how it halms the scene, but its all ready been said. I'm always prepared to give others due respect, particularly when there on the cutting edge of discovering new spins and widening the genre, I dont know you Gaint but I have respect via proxy due to what others have said on here about yourself. Right, and this isnt a dig, I'm off to to get ready for one of the finest nighters around, its a living breathing thing this scene and always about the here and now for me.

MrsWoodsrules · August 27, 2011

Okay guys, enough of this c#ap.

Geese lad, you are top lad, that's easy to see.

Bahar, you are a cool guy too, just not putting it across on here, but I can confirm you are.

So let's have a love TKO here.

Side note to Bahar, just spent the evening with Geoff, Jesus man, can't believe the vinyl that passed through that mans his fingers, Sam Williams got nothin on him.

Okay guys, feel the love.

Bahar, you owe me a drink my friend.

Jordirip · August 27, 2011

:yes: :lol:

August 27, 2011

I sincerely hope to of caused no real offence to you Giant, or any others, I just thought your comments were out of order and insulting, and didnt read them as a joke, maybe I shouldnt of stuck my nose in the first place, but I cant stand by and watch people apparantly belittle others, its a curse thats always caused me problems. I could go on about your apparant ellitist attitiude and how it halms the scene, but its all ready been said. I'm always prepared to give others due respect, particularly when there on the cutting edge of discovering new spins and widening the genre, I dont know you Gaint but I have respect via proxy due to what others have said on here about yourself. Right, and this isnt a dig, I'm off to to get ready for one of the finest nighters around, its a living breathing thing this scene and always about the here and now for me.

hi geeselad

I sincerely hope to of caused no real offence to you Giant, or any others, I just thought your comments were out of order and insulting, and didnt read them as a joke, maybe I shouldnt of stuck my nose in the first place, but I cant stand by and watch people apparantly belittle others, its a curse thats always caused me problems. I could go on about your apparant ellitist attitiude and how it halms the scene, but its all ready been said. I'm always prepared to give others due respect, particularly when there on the cutting edge of discovering new spins and widening the genre, I dont know you Gaint but I have respect via proxy due to what others have said on here about yourself. Right, and this isnt a dig, I'm off to to get ready for one of the finest nighters around, its a living breathing thing this scene and always about the here and now for me.

hi geeselad

lets forget this argument, you expressed your opinion and i expressed mine about whats been said.

enjoy the allnighter.

Edited August 27, 2011 by giant

August 27, 2011

Okay guys, enough of this c#ap.
Geese lad, you are top lad, that's easy to see.
Bahar, you are a cool guy too, just not putting it across on here, but I can confirm you are.
So let's have a love TKO here.
Side note to Bahar, just spent the evening with Geoff, Jesus man, can't believe the vinyl that passed through that mans his fingers, Sam Williams got nothin on him.
Okay guys, feel the love.
Bahar, you owe me a drink my friend.

no problem i will buy you a drink, see you soon.

KevH · August 28, 2011

Like a lot of records these days..It just aint that rare anymore.

Has there been a find of these?.Otherwise isn't this the same records doing the rounds? How many copies are there,,25,,50?

John A · August 28, 2011

I don't know about a "find" What I do know is 10 years back this record and lots like it were practically impossible to get hold of.

I do feel now however if it was something I ever wanted,next to no time at all sat on my backside in front of this computer would secure me a copy.

I'm not saying it wouldn't still be a load of money though.Just available.

KevH · August 28, 2011

I don't know about a "find" What I do know is 10 years back this record and lots like it were practically impossible to get hold of.
I do feel now however if it was something I ever wanted,next to no time at all sat on my backside in front of this computer would secure me a copy.
I'm not saying it wouldn't still be a load of money though.Just available.

Quite possibly John.That doesn't address the rarity question though.Everything has its price.

Chalky · August 28, 2011

Quite possibly John.That doesn't address the rarity question though.Everything has its price.

Exactly Kev, John might get a copy after a bit of keyboard work but it will no doubt be one of those already in circulation not another newly discovered copy.

It isn't a common record, it is still a rare record.

bri pinch · August 28, 2011

it isn't a common record, it is still a rare record :thumbsup: , just not as rare as it used to be

bri

KevH · August 28, 2011

it isn't a common record, it is still a rare record , just not as rare as it used to be

bri

Sort of medium rare Bri..

August 28, 2011

Sort of medium rare Bri..

Medium Rare with the juices running Kev

MrsWoodsrules · August 28, 2011

I suppose the game has changed to the whole question of rarity since t'internet.

Records now turn up that never used to turn up & the flip side to this (no pun intended) records don't turn up, making them conspicuous by their absence.

MrsWoodsrules · August 28, 2011

Just to add to that, t'internet also generates turnover & trade on a scale that never happened before, which has a real impact on supply & demand, this too changes the whole market & has an effect.

boba · August 28, 2011

another thing that happens with the internet is that it makes rare records available for sale as people specifically know to put those records up for auction. but other records that are just as rare might never come up for sale and take years to find just because dealers don't know to auction them. they might still change hands locally for cheap. so in a sense, it's not really making rare records less rare so much as making "known" rare records more available.

I do agree that the internet has proven that some previously-though-to-be-rare records aren't as rare though. Just making the point that seeing something for sale a bunch of times doesn't prove that it's not rare.

MrsWoodsrules · August 28, 2011

Agree with that, I certainly have to update my mostly pre-internet Manship guides, probably a decade old & way out of kilter.

I've seen a couple of examples tonight, 2 George Allens on Sotoplay, going for a song. (personally don't like this but just an example), my old guides had these down for £500, while I agree with you Boba that just cos they turning up doesn't mean not rare, all the same, the prices they are fetching are right down, could be down to other factors I know (like it's crap), but just using as an example.

KevH · August 28, 2011

Just to add to that, t'internet also generates turnover & trade on a scale that never happened before, which has a real impact on supply & demand, this too changes the whole market & has an effect.

Read on here its easier to collect now with access to tinternet.Sat on arses bidding.But is it really? Many more folks after more or less the same records,googling the bejeesus out of labels etc.

If anything its harder to come up with something different with a host of collectors/dj's using this fine resource.Great if you want the known stuff though.

Back to rarity.Cos 6 or so of a proven rare record go thru the bay or in Sales on here in rapid succession,doesn't make it less rare.

Edited August 28, 2011 by KevH

Chalky · August 29, 2011

Cos 6 or so of a proven rare record go thru the bay or in Sales on here in rapid succession,doesn't make it less rare.

Exactly Kev, them 6 or 7 or whatever number were out there before the internet. Back then you had probably three ways to find a record, lists, go to a venue or go to the states. Now the internet has done away with all those options and opened up the market wide world.

As for jackie Day, how many copies would say known...30 to 50? still a very rare record by anybody's standard. If another 100 turned up it would still be a rare record and all those crying not a rare record I bet they wouldn't mind a copy, if only to sell for a grand.

John A · August 29, 2011

Back to rarity.Cos 6 or so of a proven rare record go thru the bay or in Sales on here in rapid succession,doesn't make it less rare.

Of course it does,,unless i'm speaking a different language I thought the word "rare" relates to how many or few of whatever its applied to.

So if I found another 6 copies. Of course its less rare,if only by 6....

John A · August 29, 2011

Exactly Kev, them 6 or 7 or whatever number were out there before the internet. Back then you had probably three ways to find a record, lists, go to a venue or go to the states. Now the internet has done away with all those options and opened up the market wide world.

As for jackie Day, how many copies would say known...30 to 50? still a very rare record by anybody's standard. If another 100 turned up it would still be a rare record and all those crying not a rare record I bet they wouldn't mind a copy, if only to sell for a grand.

I would like to say at no time did I say it's not a rare record,just not as rare as it was once thought. Any way,,,who cares? not me.

MrsWoodsrules · August 29, 2011

Bit of a change of subject, but I've been watching this & were still talking rare records.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170684402423+#ht_500wt_1191

Question, read the full description, is this guy serious about taking a toothbrush to it?

And is this common practice cos i've never heard of it, I'd be scared to death doing that.

KevH · August 29, 2011

Like a lot of records these days..It just aint that rare anymore.

Not looking to argue John,i'm always interested in people's perspective of "rare".As in quantity.

Like you say- who cares apart from us saddo's..(don't even like JD..) :lol:

Edited August 29, 2011 by KevH

Chalky · August 29, 2011

I would like to say at no time did I say it's not a rare record,just not as rare as it was once thought. Any way,,,who cares? not me.

I didn't say you did, you said it isn't that rare anymore. The fact is it is still a rare record. There are records more common than this that fetch more yet I don't see the same comments applied to those.

Dylan · August 29, 2011

with a 20 or 50 copies find of a rare record there are two ways to go.

drip them out through a network of dealers and try and get top $ for all copies and create a sense of still being very rare. This has been tried lots of times and if you pay way over it can leave bad feeling.

do what happened with darling dears say openily in public you have 50 copies and sell them for $300 each in about 1 hour.

I think the fairest way is the second and the fact all those sold immediaitely shows the demand is still there when the truth facts are known.

with the jackie day it would be complete guess work by me just how many copies were found. I would guess that some who say it was 20, 30, 50 copies don't actually know for sure they just make these numbers up.

Chalky · August 29, 2011

with the jackie day it would be complete guess work by me just how many copies were found. I would guess that some who say it was 20, 30, 50 copies don't actually know for sure they just make these numbers up.

without checking think most of the JD's been though are from different sellers?

There e was 11 in the West Coast find JM involved with...

post 47

think John Pugh says there are 16 copies of JD - NB on popsike and cause of the price I doubt popsike missed many if any sales so that still makes it around 30 or so known copies. How many copies does there have to be to constitute rare.

Pete S · August 29, 2011

I can't tell, are you still joking here?

If he is, it's not very funny

Ernie Andrews · August 29, 2011

Wow! & I thought I was an arse hole at times! :lol:

Dylan · August 29, 2011

without checking think most of the JD's been though are from different sellers?

There e was 11 in the West Coast find JM involved with...
post 47

think John Pugh says there are 16 copies of JD - NB on popsike and cause of the price I doubt popsike missed many if any sales so that still makes it around 30 or so known copies. How many copies does there have to be to constitute rare.

i'd say its still very worthy of being called rare if there are 30 copies. Thats f**k all in the scheme of things.

Ernie Andrews · August 29, 2011

back on topic- Ill repeat myself for the umpteenth time.

Unless their is provenance as to how many copies were made and if they left the press plant with a delivery note no-one knows how rare a record is full stop. So all the conjecture is then played about with like a rumour on Fleet Street!

What is the definition of "rare" The word itself is not measurable- they have even stopped using the word rare on the Antiques roadshow and prefer to use the term "Uncommon" - The question is do you want to put a bet on something that is uncommon today and more common tommorow!

Without the evidence to back up the claim its justa guessing game thats all!

Chalky · August 29, 2011

back on topic- Ill repeat myself for the umpteenth time.
Unless their is provenance as to how many copies were made and if they left the press plant with a delivery note no-one knows how rare a record is full stop.

that's why we use the word "known" :rolleyes:

KevH · August 29, 2011

back on topic- Ill repeat myself for the umpteenth time.
Unless their is provenance as to how many copies were made and if they left the press plant with a delivery note no-one knows how rare a record is full stop. So all the conjecture is then played about with like a rumour on Fleet Street!
What is the definition of "rare" The word itself is not measurable- they have even stopped using the word rare on the Antiques roadshow and prefer to use the term "Uncommon" - The question is do you want to put a bet on something that is uncommon today and more common tommorow!
Without the evidence to back up the claim its justa guessing game thats all!

There was a thread sometime back about this very subject - What constitutes Rare? ( I bet if we ask Chalky he'll dig it out..)..I believe JM came on here to give a ball park figure from his perspective....and yes,some records can be backed up with detail.

Went somewhere recently and there were 3 copies of a rare record in the room.Falling over 'em we were.

Edited August 29, 2011 by KevH

Chalky · August 29, 2011

Had a quick search and can't find said topic Kev...I'm supposed to be packing as away for a few days in the Lakes so don't have time for thorough search.

Geeselad · August 29, 2011

I wasnt around on the scene at the time all the copies of Danny moore turned up, how many exactly were found? I did read that som folk lost out big time as the first copies dripped out, going for £500, then £300 and so on. Nowadays it can be had for relatively peanuts, so how many copies are in circulation for it to drop in value that much?

Ernie Andrews · August 29, 2011

Chalky - The word Known again is subjective and open to any sort of interpretation and is not backed up with empirical evidence IE " The known people signing a sheet of paper to say they own a copy"

I own one of the 2 copies of the sidney barnes orch (Audiodisc acetate) Their is empirical evidence for this as a piece of paper explained what happened and was signed. (Empirical evidence).

ATB Steve

Geeselad · August 29, 2011

There was a thread sometime back about this very subject - What constitutes Rare? ( I bet if we ask Chalky he'll dig it out..)..I believe JM came on here to give a ball park figure from his perspective....and yes,some records can be backed up with detail.
Went somewhere recently and there were 3 copies of a rare record in the room.Falling over 'em we were.

doesn't mean it wasnt rare Kev, people on the scene decide to off load things at the same time, once they've played them out or styles have moved on.

Chalky · August 30, 2011

Chalky - The word Known again is subjective and open to any sort of interpretation and is not backed up with empirical evidence IE " The known people signing a sheet of paper to say they own a copy"
I own one of the 2 copies of the sidney barnes orch (Audiodisc acetate) Their is empirical evidence for this as a piece of paper explained what happened and was signed. (Empirical evidence).
ATB Steve

In the grand scheme of things it is only a small collecting scene even though worldwide but we do have a rough guesstimate of what has been sold. We know there was around 11 in the find, JM says so himself, we know there's been roughly 16 or so through ebay, some will no doubt be the same copy being sold on, we know there were a few more found and sold individually therefore we have a rough ball park figure of what is known about on this collecting scene. The internet has opened up this scene worldwide and we are in touch with the collectors from around the world.

The figure we know about for records is good enough for most of us, collectors, DJ's and dealers and I doubt anyone gives a flying f*ck about empirical evidence when parting with hard earned cash. People do their homework when doing so and if they don't then more fool them.

Of course we don't know the exact figure and no one is saying otherwise, why complicate things more than they need complicating? The same word is used in other areas of collecting, antiques etc as well.

Chalky · August 30, 2011

I wasnt around on the scene at the time all the copies of Danny moore turned up, how many exactly were found? I did read that som folk lost out big time as the first copies dripped out, going for £500, then £300 and so on. Nowadays it can be had for relatively peanuts, so how many copies are in circulation for it to drop in value that much?

Rod will tell you how many he and Dave Withers found initially. Not sure if he said they left some behind.

MrsWoodsrules · August 30, 2011

Back on folks, looks like it's made reserve this time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170687149631+#ht_1465wt_1219

MrsWoodsrules · August 30, 2011

Bloody hell, this sellers got an Esther Grant on Wilstone for sale too. I seen one of these make over $5000 earlier this year, Manship has it as NEG.

MrsWoodsrules · August 30, 2011

Just noticed it's cracked. :ohmy:

MrsWoodsrules · August 31, 2011

The Jackie Day sold for $2000 = £1,200, take away the sellers fees & he has let that go for a grand.

Ted Massey · August 31, 2011

Bloody hell, this sellers got an Esther Grant on Wilstone for sale too. I seen one of these make over $5000 earlier this year, Manship has it as NEG.

wheres the link to that then

Raresoul45s · August 31, 2011

In the grand scheme of things it is only a small collecting scene even though worldwide but we do have a rough guesstimate of what has been sold. We know there was around 11 in the find, JM says so himself, we know there's been roughly 16 or so through ebay, some will no doubt be the same copy being sold on, we know there were a few more found and sold individually therefore we have a rough ball park figure of what is known about on this collecting scene. The internet has opened up this scene worldwide and we are in touch with the collectors from around the world.

The figure we know about for records is good enough for most of us, collectors, DJ's and dealers and I doubt anyone gives a flying f*ck about empirical evidence when parting with hard earned cash. People do their homework when doing so and if they don't then more fool them.

Of course we don't know the exact figure and no one is saying otherwise, why complicate things more than they need complicating? The same word is used in other areas of collecting, antiques etc as well.

Chalky I agree (30ish) many of the JDs sold over the last few years are one and the same copies selling on once the jock had got his plays out of the 45, there were 3 more copies found about 2 to 3 years ago and I know 2 of them have been sold on more than once which gives the illusion of more sales than actual copies. I'd be surprised if there were more than 30 copies circulating at the moment (known) ofcourse there could be more.

Darren

Edited August 31, 2011 by BROWNIE

MrsWoodsrules · August 31, 2011

Sorry Ted, was in sellers other items.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/170687137404?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1506wt_922

Didnt sell.

Modernsoulsucks · August 31, 2011

I wasnt around on the scene at the time all the copies of Danny moore turned up, how many exactly were found? I did read that som folk lost out big time as the first copies dripped out, going for £500, then £300 and so on. Nowadays it can be had for relatively peanuts, so how many copies are in circulation for it to drop in value that much?

We [Dave W. and I] sourced copies from the writer's cousin I think just by looking for Massingale [odd surname] in Detroit phonebook.

Dave was over there and he sent me around 20 odd copies so I figured £150 as up until then as you say it was an expensive 45. However soon became apparent the cousin could get more copies so dropped to £70 within a week. Not sure how many we ended up with but I'd guess between 100-150.

We think a couple of people working together may have had access to this guy a long time before us and maybe couldn't buy all the copies [maybe the cousin wasn't as forthcoming then] or bought some and dripped them out for big money.

ROD

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