Northern Soul - Its W**k

[skiinspain]

Jealousy is a hurting thing, but who really gives a toss HA HA .The music will live on whatever.

[Geeselad]

I never meant this to tern into a scooterist v soulies debate, in fact, initially, I genuinely had no idea that these images originated from the scooter scene.

Without a doubt particuarly over the last few years the scooter scene has made a great contribution to the northern scene, musically and socially, by helping to feed some of the larger nighters and weekenders with fresh faces, often with far less preconceptions than many soulies. Cross- pollunation between the two scences has always existed and I hoped endeared respect to one and other. However they are both very different and there will inevitably be areas where they clash. what I resent is the idea that these iconic, albeit cheesey images can be used in this way. That word 'faith' used to mean a lot to me and at times is the only thing that keeps me going on the scene, yes I still believe it has value and worth! This is my musical and cultural heritage, and I'm not going to stand by and see it knocked without saying something, sorry is thats not very post modern. Keep the Faith baby, Really!

Edited August 13, 2011 by geeselad

[Madmandy]

Just been reading this and I have to admit when I tell the lay person I go out dancing and they ask what kind of dancing,

I say motown/black 60's soul music.

When I tell them Northern Soul I then have to go on to explain what N/S is and I just can't be arsed anymore.

Or I am asked if I wear circle skirts / fred perry shirts etc (stereotyped) which I don't....haven't since my teens.

As for it being W**k that's a personal opinion pure and simple no one is forcing it down their throats ...probably when they say they're off to a scooter rally folks think they dance to N/S which of course most don't

[barney]

I go to numerous scooter rallies and without exception now dont bother to attend the accompanying (nothern/soul event) this is for various reasons but mainly because what they offer in terms of music and the mindless minority of scooterist who go there to get pissed and act like prats .

all the best to the decent folk who attend but its not for me.

if I want northern soul then there is usually something on close by that has nothing to do with the scooter rally which I will go to, or settle for a quiet night chilling in some pub with a few likeminded mates,

have seen the shirts and hey there not big and certainly not clever

ktf B

Edited August 14, 2011 by barney

[Guest]

No there isn't.

There is Ian... I went and had a look Northern Soul - It's WANK

This image made me giggle and I love northern soul!

Description: For those that of us that love scooter rallies, but hate Northern Soul!!

Edited August 14, 2011 by TheSoulgirl

[Dave Rimmer]

Yeah, I noticed the 'Group' had all of eight members

[Guest]

There's nothing to worry about then Dave

[Guest Brett F]

Not really that interesting a thread, and i could care less but for me the term 'Northern Soul' now represents an oldies night, baggy trousers, circle skirts etc,etc, it just doesn't seem to represent the cutting edge anymore ( and probably hasn't for years ), i feel the more progressive nights seem to adopt the term 'Rare Soul' and have for a good many years, in a way i suppose distancing themselves from the Sainsburys checkout 'Best Northern Soul Ever Cd' mentality ( if you know what i mean..! ) As a teenager 'Northern Soul' to me was underground and cool, but it's as far removed from cool as it could ever be for me, i'm just a soul music fan, i embrace over 47 years of music, not just a narrow band of say 4 years (64-68 ?). I actually find the t-shirts, badges mildly amusing, i always hated it when people said 'Keep the Faith'..do me a favour....

[Guest]

Actually, if the majority of Scooter Rallies only play the same songs from the top 500 it's no wonder they hate Northern Soul

[Guest lambrettanik]

Actually, if the majority of Scooter Rallies only play the same songs from the top 500 it's no wonder they hate Northern Soul

yep they do unless dukesy or sean chapman are the djs(and me) its the usual tried and tested standard oldies,if you played an obscure track(an under played oldie lets say) it would clear the floor except for those of us who are regulars at soul events,but then again the other styles of music played are the "same old same old" as well,but us northern soulies who ride scoots cant be arsed getting badges and t-shirts to change this(we dont care for this childishness),as were usually to busy partying

[Guest ScooterNik]

I've heard Dukesy play some shocking tracks down the years too, but then if you want to fill the floor... And you can add me to that list too, I've DJed off and on since the NRC days, but over recent years have had fewer jobs due to my attitude of 'I will not play the usual crap'. At the moment there are only two clubs that will employ me! (Although I've been approached by my local club to do a major event next year.... I'm considering it, but given my current tendency to load my set with modern ska, probably not! I'm sure you appreciate that The Green Room Rockers go down about as well as decent rare soul....)

Like I care, you'll never make a living at it

As for the original designer being a mod/tramp/whatever? If you stood next to him in a pub, you'd not know he was a scooter rider, short but tidy hair, bit of a very short goatee beard, usually in plain t-shirts and jeans. He's just an ordinary bloke who loves scooters, loves punk and psychobilly music, and really doesn't 'get' northern soul.

BTW LambrettaNik, do I know you?

[Des Crombie]

As for the original designer being a mod/tramp/whatever? If you stood next to him in a pub, you'd not know he was a scooter rider, short but tidy hair, bit of a very short goatee beard, usually in plain t-shirts and jeans. He's just an ordinary bloke who loves scooters, loves punk and psychobilly music, and really doesn't 'get' northern soul.

I know Juan Kerr, or Chunk as I know him, and have DJ'ed at local Scooter Club nights with him playing his stuff. Anyway, I am sure this anti NS thing is all about them wanting less NS being played at Scooter nights, rather than a targeted dig at our scene. It's just a wind-up and as such is best ignored or indeed laughed at.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Dezzie Boy

[Madmandy]

Not really that interesting a thread, and i could care less but for me the term 'Northern Soul' now represents an oldies night, baggy trousers, circle skirts etc,etc, it just doesn't seem to represent the cutting edge anymore ( and probably hasn't for years ), i feel the more progressive nights seem to adopt the term 'Rare Soul' and have for a good many years, in a way i suppose distancing themselves from the Sainsburys checkout 'Best Northern Soul Ever Cd' mentality ( if you know what i mean..! ) As a teenager 'Northern Soul' to me was underground and cool, but it's as far removed from cool as it could ever be for me, i'm just a soul music fan, i embrace over 47 years of music, not just a narrow band of say 4 years (64-68 ?). I actually find the t-shirts, badges mildly amusing, i always hated it when people said 'Keep the Faith'..do me a favour....

[Madmandy]

Sorry Brett but you are stereotyping the folks who still enjoy oldies me for one, I attend these nights and have already said I don't wear the uniform.(I have no objections to anyone who does, a personal choice)

I'm still hearing new stuff too, but I was on the younger end of the original soul era (hate the phrase soul scene) and so I havent heard every oldie yet.

I have also tried rare soul nights provided by Steve L. and the crew the black bull mansfield and they do a sterling job too!

Admittedly I've bought a Tesco compilation lately and a lot I hadn't heard so don't knock it maybe because I'm not a collector either ( I'm a dancer) and I don't say KTF either!

Regards Mand

[Guest Brett F]

Sorry Brett but you are stereotyping the folks who still enjoy oldies me for one, I attend these nights and have already said I don't wear the uniform.(I have no objections to anyone who does, a personal choice)

I'm still hearing new stuff too, but I was on the younger end of the original soul era (hate the phrase soul scene) and so I havent heard every oldie yet.

I have also tried rare soul nights provided by Steve L. and the crew the black bull mansfield and they do a sterling job too!

Admittedly I've bought a Tesco compilation lately and a lot I hadn't heard so don't knock it maybe because I'm not a collector either ( I'm a dancer) and I don't say KTF either!

Regards Mand

Hi Mand, yeah i think my reply was a bit curt ( but i am a man, and can be very moody ), i have no objection to the way anyone dresses, free world etc, and i also love a lot of the oldies, i think the point i was trying to make was how the term Northern Soul has been commercialised over the years, Kentuckey fried chicken adverts, 'Best Northern Soul Ever' CD, like i mentioned back when i was a teenager the term for me was associated with a cool underground scene, i guess i romantically would have liked it to have kept that way, i don't often attend Northern events anymore, not really my area of soul, but i did attend the excellent Lifeline nighter earlier in the year, and also the Bamberg weekender, and enjoyed what i believe to be the cutting edge 60's sounds, played by the scene's finest dj's. Like i said i feel the term 'Northern' is largely associated with revivalist nights, playing tried and tested favourites, nothing wrong with that, but some way along the line the term has lost its unique sparkle for me.

Best Brett

Edited August 15, 2011 by Brett F

[Madmandy]

Hi Mand, yeah i think my reply was a bit curt ( but i am a man, and can be very moody ), i have no objection to the way anyone dresses, free world etc, and i also love a lot of the oldies, i think the point i was trying to make was how the term Northern Soul has been commercialised over the years, Kentuckey fried chicken adverts, 'Best Northern Soul Ever' CD, like i mentioned back when i was a teenager the term for me was associated with a cool underground scene, i guess i romantically would have liked it to have kept that way, i don't often attend Northern events anymore, not really my area of soul, but i did attend the excellent Lifeline nighter earlier in the year, and also the Bamberg weekender, and enjoyed what i believe to be the cutting edge 60's sounds, played by the scene's finest dj's. Like i said i feel the term 'Northern' is largely associated with revivalist nights, playing tried and tested favourites, nothing wrong with that, but some way along the line the term has lost its unique sparkle for me.

Best Brett

I hear ya soul brother (kiddin) I did call someone this on my fb the other day (lighthearted humour)

I do agree with what you say tho trouble is "northern soul " is part of our heritage/history and it is starting to sound "dated"

I also said (previous post) that I tell the folks I dance to motown/60's black soul as you say attempt to make it sound fresher

even if it is decades old

Cheers Mand

[Geordiejohnson]

When we started the friendship nights we were concious not to use the tag line of "Northern" as its seemed to have pidgeon holed music, when i was looking for a venue we were at a bar in hudersfield and the owner said " is it that Heel and toe type dancing" i thought well yeh Northern is a particular dance style that suites a certain style of music but Soul is more than that. so we had "pure soul" 60's 70's etc.

when my big, in her 60's, sister got into the scene it was "Rhythm and Soul"

But i do think when I see Northern on a flyer i assume now its an oldies night

I suppose the term "Northern" creates a bretheren, .....gather round brother.... gather round

Geeooooordie

[Mark S]

Its not just the Northern at scooter rallies thats dire the whole music policy is dated , driven partly by the born again brigade wanting to relive thier youth .

[Madmandy]

The only reason I'm "the born again brigade" is because in the 80's 90's I was bringing my children up and couldn't make a commitment and I'm not reliving my youth either

How old are you if I may ask?

You could say I'm playing catch up

Edited August 15, 2011 by Madmandy

[Madmandy]

When we started the friendship nights we were concious not to use the tag line of "Northern" as its seemed to have pidgeon holed music, when i was looking for a venue we were at a bar in hudersfield and the owner said " is it that Heel and toe type dancing" i thought well yeh Northern is a particular dance style that suites a certain style of music but Soul is more than that. so we had "pure soul" 60's 70's etc.

when my big, in her 60's, sister got into the scene it was "Rhythm and Soul"

But i do think when I see Northern on a flyer i assume now its an oldies night

I suppose the term "Northern" creates a bretheren, .....gather round brother.... gather round

Geeooooordie

What you mean when I tell folks I'm a geordie they say "wheres ya whippet and flat cap?"

Stereotyping

[barney]

What you mean when I tell folks I'm a geordie they say "wheres ya whippet and flat cap?"

Stereotyping

he dont like it when you mention hanging monkeys either

[Madmandy]

he dont like it when you mention hanging monkeys either

Why is he from Hartlepool? .... I'm from Wallsend

[Simsy]

You're right, there isn't one. There are two!

With 8 members!

[Simsy]

With 8 members!

Why doesn't it surprise me a scooter club are behind this. The great unhosed probably have one brain cell between the 8 of them.

[Simsy]

The great unhosed

Avatar of the guy who started the group. Classy.

I can imagine he would have little interest in the works of Eddie Singleton and every interest in the diarrhoea drinking competition.

[Guest the dukester]

THE FIGHTBACK BAGINS!!

[viphitman]

There are bits & bobs connected with Northern Soul as in real life that one can do without!!! But for me Northern Soul incorporates many many positive things. After all it describes it more or less with just two words what it is all about. Great people, fantastic & unique dancing, the travelling, the passion, the collecting, the support for the original artist, the friendship and foremost great music. Mind you I believe Northern Soul in the real world always consisted of some funky tunes, beat ballads, crossover, stompers, oldies, underplayed, rare bla bla bla. The mix is important and from time to time it will shift from one side to the other. Northern Soul should not only be just a term largely associated with revivalist nights, playing tried and tested favourites!!!! For me it includes lifeline and many other upfront nights!!!

But hey, people were arguing about it in the UK since the early days but soon your scene is going to get smaller and only a hardcore crowd of open-minded people will remain next to some youngsters. Then Northern Soul with its many styles will probably go back like it did in the eighties were you could hear obscure monsters next to some oldies at just a few nights around the country. The same old same old will lose its appeal in the long run by the law of boredom even to the close-minded brigade!!!! The good thing is, people started to use more and more the term Oldies and Motown Nights rather than Northern Soul, which is great because a proper Northern Soul All-nighter should mix it up in styles and contend!!!!

Keep the face

[Mark S]

The only reason I'm "the born again brigade" is because in the 80's 90's I was bringing my children up and couldn't make a commitment and I'm not reliving my youth either

How old are you if I may ask?

You could say I'm playing catch up

I am 55 years old and have more get ups behind me than in front of me so I personally dont want to be looking back . The born again comment related specificly to scooter rallies and the blinkered lowest common denominator approach musically in any particular genre .

Northern soul is part of scootering , scootering isnt part of the northern soul scene . I enjoy both scenes and have a totally different approach to them both .

I dont feel at all agrieved or anoyed by these patches/ badges etc because if you are a scooterist that doesnt like northern soul and has it foisted on him/her at every rally or event then yes northern soul is wank .

[Guest ScooterNik]

Can I come and stand in your corner Mark? :D I'm only 46, but never left the scene despite having the wife/child/mortgage/crap job excuse.

Bloody born agains are the sole reason (not the soul reason..) that I avoid big rallies these days. Anyway, that's beside the point on this thread.

And yes, Dezzie, that's the man... if you see him, remind him he still owes me a beer and that I'll collect one day....

[Guest]

I'm only 46, but never left the scene despite having the wife/child/mortgage/crap job excuse.

Me too although I was a late starter. When I agreed to marry mine I specifically said that I would not be giving up my soul nights foremost and tacked on his washing, ironing etc for good measure. We divorced 8 years later as we had nothing in common

[Steve L]

I am 55 years old and have more get ups behind me than in front of me so I personally dont want to be looking back . The born again comment related specificly to scooter rallies and the blinkered lowest common denominator approach musically in any particular genre .

Northern soul is part of scootering , scootering isnt part of the northern soul scene . I enjoy both scenes and have a totally different approach to them both .

I dont feel at all agrieved or anoyed by these patches/ badges etc because if you are a scooterist that doesnt like northern soul and has it foisted on him/her at every rally or event then yes northern soul is wank .

This hits the nail on the head. For me personally scooters or anything connected with them have had no bearing on the northern scene whatsoever.

[bri pinch]

This hits the nail on the head. For me personally scooters or anything connected with them have had no bearing on the northern scene whatsoever.

AGREED :thumbup:

[Guest the dukester]

This hits the nail on the head. For me personally scooters or anything connected with them have had no bearing on the northern scene whatsoever.

What about all the Soulies that travelled/travel to Soul events all over britain then and now...surely this is a connection

[Mark S]

Can I come and stand in your corner Mark? :D I'm only 46, but never left the scene despite having the wife/child/mortgage/crap job excuse.

Bloody born agains are the sole reason (not the soul reason..) that I avoid big rallies these days. Anyway, that's beside the point on this thread.

And yes, Dezzie, that's the man... if you see him, remind him he still owes me a beer and that I'll collect one day....

Hi Nik you know me Mr M of SBW ,

Never realy understood the conection between scooters and NS . think its more a case of some soulies ride scooters .

Dont recall any scooters outside soul venues pre 1979 . I remember mods turning up at soul events because they thought thats what mods do . But the mods are a whole different subject with thier own latterday comedy born again element

Last time I used the term comedy mod on this forum I got threatened

Edited August 17, 2011 by Mark S

[Soulsmith]

I'd say they are pricks!

I would like to draw everybodys attention to the trouble with free speech.

[KevH]

This hits the nail on the head. For me personally scooters or anything connected with them have had no bearing on the northern scene whatsoever.

And here's me thinking there was a link between the two.Now if you had replaced "Northern" with "Modern"....

[Guest the dukester]

Hi Nik you know me Mr M of SBW ,

Never realy understood the conection between scooters and NS . think its more a case of some soulies ride scooters .

Dont recall any scooters outside soul venues pre 1979 . I remember mods turning up at soul events because they thought thats what mods do . But the mods are a whole different subject with thier own latterday comedy born again element

Last time I used the term comedy mod on this forum I got threatened

In its heyday, there would be all-nighters - 11pm to 7am - with soul-loving mods parking their Lambretta scooters outside and dancing through the night........... Pete Roberts Twisted Wheel regular

Jenny Lovie, a regular at the Twisted Wheel in the early 60s, fondly recalls:

"There was nothing quite like the excitement of my first visit to the "Wheel". Walking down Brazennose Street in Manchester and seeing all the scooters with their hundreds of wing mirrors curving up like wings, the sunlight reflecting off them making it nearly impossible to see.

Pre 79 me thinks

[Paul R]

I went to Wigan a couple of times on my Lambretta in 1975/76.

Paul

[Guest the dukester]

I went to Wigan a couple of times on my Lambretta in 1975/76.

Paul

Did you park it round the back!! :lol:

I Can remember the lads from Huddersfield Scooter Club going on theirs in the mid 70's as well

[Steve L]

What about all the Soulies that travelled/travel to Soul events all over britain then and now...surely this is a connection

I'm not saying that they dont but from my personal perspective I dont see them at the venues I go to or venues I've gone to over the years. I tell a lie I can remember some at Wigan in 79.

I've often seen quotes about how the two are intertwined but for me they're not. Dont really know anyone on the scene who's into scooters either.

I'll check the carpark at Lifeline, Burnley, Rugby niters etc next time I go but I dont think I'll see too many

[Pete S]

I'm not saying that they dont but from my personal perspective I dont see them at the venues I go to or venues I've gone to over the years. I tell a lie I can remember some at Wigan in 79.

I've often seen quotes about how the two are intertwined but for me they're not. Dont really know anyone on the scene who's into scooters either.

I'll check the carpark at Lifeline, Burnley, Rugby niters etc next time I go but I dont think I'll see too many

AM with you there Steve, never saw any scooters at Wigan or anywhere else and had packed it in by 79 anyway so missed out on that, luckily

[Madmandy]

Can I come and stand in your corner Mark? :D I'm only 46, but never left the scene despite having the wife/child/mortgage/crap job excuse.

Bloody born agains are the sole reason (not the soul reason..) that I avoid big rallies these days. Anyway, that's beside the point on this thread.

And yes, Dezzie, that's the man... if you see him, remind him he still owes me a beer and that I'll collect one day....

Bloody typical man statement (childbirth wasn't painful for me <----another typical man statement)

A bloody miracle would be ......I gave up drinking beer for 9 months while my wife was pregnant & I also gave up all my hobbies while the kids were growing up

[Madmandy]

Bloody typical man statement (childbirth wasn't painful for me <----another typical man statement)

A bloody miracle would be ......I gave up drinking beer for 9 months while my wife was pregnant & I also gave up all my hobbies while the kids were growing up

Apologies this should have replied to Mark S

[Mark S]

Bloody typical man statement (childbirth wasn't painful for me <----another typical man statement)

A bloody miracle would be ......I gave up drinking beer for 9 months while my wife was pregnant & I also gave up all my hobbies while the kids were growing up

What are you on about did you not read my post ?

Whats childbirth got to do with it ? a kick in the balls is more painfull we dont ask for another one

[Mark S]

In its heyday, there would be all-nighters - 11pm to 7am - with soul-loving mods parking their Lambretta scooters outside and dancing through the night........... Pete Roberts Twisted Wheel regular

Jenny Lovie, a regular at the Twisted Wheel in the early 60s, fondly recalls:

"There was nothing quite like the excitement of my first visit to the "Wheel". Walking down Brazennose Street in Manchester and seeing all the scooters with their hundreds of wing mirrors curving up like wings, the sunlight reflecting off them making it nearly impossible to see.

Pre 79 me thinks

The wheel before my time

Didnt say there wasnt any scoots just I dont recall seeing any

[Shsdave]

Funny this should crop up. Had some friends round at the weekend and we were have a good old time of it, as you do, swapping stories about or respective 'good old days'.

One of our friends (an Italian with connections to the Italian and European Mod scene) was telling us that there is a growing desire among sections of the Italian Mod scene (and possibly among other European contingents) to move away from the label, cult and associated paraphernalia of Northern Soul.

Soul music from the 60s in particular should be labelled as such, they believe, and not given the name tag of a regional and obscure youth cult from 70s Great Britain. 60s Soul should have it's own identity and be appreciated and understood in the context of 1960s America, not the perspective of the UK.

Fans of the music should be saying - "that's a great 60s soul 45" - and not - "that's a great Northern Soul 45". After all, there is no such music as Northern Soul, only a cult that sprang up through an appreciation of 60s soul music.

Possibly there is a stronger trend to disassociate from Northern Soul and all its historical trappings than may be realised.

I think most would say thats a great tune/record

[Guest ScooterNik]

Mark, I know who you are! The comment was a bit of a tongue in cheek - we both sing from the same song sheet in a few areas.....

And I know one DJ one the mod scene who'd ask for a second kick in the balls. Allegedly....

Speaking of comedy mods that is.

[SallieJane]

I went to Wigan a couple of times on my Lambretta in 1975/76. Paul

Nice to hear...but you must've hidden it somewhere cos I don't recall any being there in 74/75 or 76 !!!

[Paul R]

Nice to hear...but you must've hidden it somewhere cos I don't recall any being there in 74/75 or 76 !!!

Definately hid it in a side street. Thinking about it it was around summer 75. On an LI 150. Had stopped going to the Casino for a couple of months due to police/parent pressure, but I used to get the free coach to the Mecca. Had a couple of particularly good nights in Blackpool, and therefore couldn't sleep, so it was back home on the coach, wheel the scoot down the road before starting up & riding to Wigan. As I say, It only happened a couple of times, I was soon ungrounded & continued with the weekly nighter visits. I do remember though around that time a brand new Vespa Rally 200 in red being parked next to the ABC Cinema.

Perhaps you were not really looking.

Paul

[Sjclement]

Not really that interesting a thread, and i could care less but for me the term 'Northern Soul' now represents an oldies night, baggy trousers, circle skirts etc,etc, it just doesn't seem to represent the cutting edge anymore ( and probably hasn't for years ), i feel the more progressive nights seem to adopt the term 'Rare Soul' and have for a good many years, in a way i suppose distancing themselves from the Sainsburys checkout 'Best Northern Soul Ever Cd' mentality ( if you know what i mean..! ) As a teenager 'Northern Soul' to me was underground and cool, but it's as far removed from cool as it could ever be for me, i'm just a soul music fan, i embrace over 47 years of music, not just a narrow band of say 4 years (64-68 ?). I actually find the t-shirts, badges mildly amusing, i always hated it when people said 'Keep the Faith'..do me a favour....

Perhaps what its really saying is......Northern soul strangles the 'Penis of Progress'