Northern Soul - Its W**k

[Geeselad]

Last sunday, a youth hands me a cloth patch, 'Northern soul its W**k', it says, the image in the centre is a play on the traditional black fist logo, its a large semi erect Penis with a fist clenched round it. To be honest I pmsl, but I was a little shocked that these were worth producing. It could be more to do with people being fed up of seeing that same tired old image everywhere nowadays. I searched the phrase on the net and found there also a FB group called this, and its been discussed on scooter forums and the like, is this the start of a back lash?

[Geeselad]

Struggling to find it but did discover this,

[Mace]

Last sunday, a youth hands me a cloth patch, 'Northern soul its W**k', it says, the image in the centre is a play on the traditional black fist logo, its a large semi erect Penis with a fist clenched round it. To be honest I pmsl, but I was a little shocked that these were worth producing. It could be more to do with people being fed up of seeing that same tired old image everywhere nowadays. I searched the phrase on the net and found there also a FB group called this, and its been discussed on scooter forums and the like, is this the start of a back lash?

Simon (Imberboy) often wears a T-Shirt with this logo on.

Sure I also saw him wearing one saying 'I'm not special, I'm gifted', but presumed it was more of a statement than a pun......

[Guest rasfoz]

A scooterboy thing for sure seen plenty of it around various forums, yes i too have seen the imber one with its w**k t shirt on

Edited August 10, 2011 by rasfoz

[Geeselad]

A scooterboy thing for sure seen plenty of it around various forums

its clearly meant as a piss take rather than a malicious thing , but I'm pretty suprised by the scooter crowd.

[Markw]

Somewhat hostile......................

[sir cumference]

Anyone got a "latin-its w**k" badge/t-shirt?

[Guest rasfoz]

Yeah long gone are the days of it going hand in hand

[Amsterdam Russ]

Funny this should crop up. Had some friends round at the weekend and we were have a good old time of it, as you do, swapping stories about or respective 'good old days'.

One of our friends (an Italian with connections to the Italian and European Mod scene) was telling us that there is a growing desire among sections of the Italian Mod scene (and possibly among other European contingents) to move away from the label, cult and associated paraphernalia of Northern Soul.

Soul music from the 60s in particular should be labelled as such, they believe, and not given the name tag of a regional and obscure youth cult from 70s Great Britain. 60s Soul should have it's own identity and be appreciated and understood in the context of 1960s America, not the perspective of the UK.

Fans of the music should be saying - "that's a great 60s soul 45" - and not - "that's a great Northern Soul 45". After all, there is no such music as Northern Soul, only a cult that sprang up through an appreciation of 60s soul music.

Possibly there is a stronger trend to disassociate from Northern Soul and all its historical trappings than may be realised.

[boba]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does "W**K" stand for "wank" or "wack"?

[Guest DeeJay]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does "W**K" stand for "wank" or "wack"?

Boba it's great to have you aboard mate.You bring a nice perspective to this.

I think it stands for wank, i presume you know what one of those things are : )

DJ

[Ady Croasdell]

Yeah long gone are the days of it going hand in hand

It's not a hand that's in the hand in this case.

[Ady Croasdell]

Funny this should crop up. Had some friends round at the weekend and we were have a good old time of it, as you do, swapping stories about or respective 'good old days'.

One of our friends (an Italian with connections to the Italian and European Mod scene) was telling us that there is a growing desire among sections of the Italian Mod scene (and possibly among other European contingents) to move away from the label, cult and associated paraphernalia of Northern Soul.

Soul music from the 60s in particular should be labelled as such, they believe, and not given the name tag of a regional and obscure youth cult from 70s Great Britain. 60s Soul should have it's own identity and be appreciated and understood in the context of 1960s America, not the perspective of the UK.

Fans of the music should be saying - "that's a great 60s soul 45" - and not - "that's a great Northern Soul 45". After all, there is no such music as Northern Soul, only a cult that sprang up through an appreciation of 60s soul music.

Possibly there is a stronger trend to disassociate from Northern Soul and all its historical trappings than may be realised.

I'd have no problem with that and I can see where they're coming from. These records were made to be hits in the contemporary US market, usually black. We were generally the first to properly collect and idolise the music but some members of our scene do seem to take the attitude that if it hadn't been for us the music would have died. I think it was too good for that but we have undoubtedly championed it and given it its dues (bootlegging being a notable and shameful exception). However I don't think that we have any proprietorial rights over the music whatsoever, just over wanting to stay out all night dancing to it and bankrupting ourselves.

Then again Northern is easier to say than black 60s dance music.

[Ady Croasdell]

I also remember in the 80s when we switched from a more general 60s rhyth and soul sound to basic Northern that a lot of mods split off (particularly when 70s was all the rage) and just went to mod dos. The more astute went to both; they'd all turn up at the Xmas party though.

[Guest the dukester]

A scooterboy thing for sure seen plenty of it around various forums, yes i too have seen the imber one with its w**k t shirt on

It is prevelant on the scooter scene where a wide variety of music is played at all the events to suit the people who attend...but dont forget most rallies, events, do's have a dedicated Soul room where vinyl is played ( I wont use the term "Northern" because a wide variety of across the board Soul is the prefered option) So lets not go for the "Scooterboy" thing as a whole as the offenders.....as in life its the minority and not the Majority.

[Steve L]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does "W**K" stand for "wank" or "wack"?

Boba just to put you on the right track here, in our culture the term "wank" has 2 meanings

1) the act of masturbation (for males)

2) an adjective meaning poor (in the sense of quality) ie shit, crap, useless etc

If you are described as a "wanker" ( also tosser) it is more to do with meaning 2 than meaning 1

Hope that clarifies

[spike1]

On this very forum someone has an avatar " oldies suck"

That's there opinion and theyre welcom to it

Northern soul ?

It's just a term given to mainly sixties soul music played in mainly northern clubs

I was part of the mid seventies "northern scene"

If certain groups dont like the term so what ?

Ktf

[Markw]

I'd have no problem with that and I can see where they're coming from. These records were made to be hits in the contemporary US market, usually black. We were generally the first to properly collect and idolise the music but some members of our scene do seem to take the attitude that if it hadn't been for us the music would have died. I think it was too good for that but we have undoubtedly championed it and given it its dues (bootlegging being a notable and shameful exception). However I don't think that we have any proprietorial rights over the music whatsoever, just over wanting to stay out all night dancing to it and bankrupting ourselves.

Then again Northern is easier to say than black 60s dance music.

Ref the bootlegging issue - on the one hand Ady, I agree with you, a shameful cashing in on the talent and work of others. However, the flip side is that without the bootlegging (particularly in the 70s) would many, if any of these recordings have had the coverage they have gained over the years? Probably not.

On the main theme of whether the Italian folk (or anyone) else want to stop calling it Northern, well if it wasn't for the exposure of the Northern Soul scene, would they have come across all that great 60s soul music? Probably not. Are they going to differentiate between genuine 60s soul and white, pop stuff? Probably not. Does anybody in the real world really care. Undoudtedly not.

[Markw]

Ref the bootlegging issue - on the one hand Ady, I agree with you, a shameful cashing in on the talent and work of others. However, the flip side is that without the bootlegging (particularly in the 70s) would many, if any of these recordings have had the coverage they have gained over the years? Probably not.

On the main theme of whether the Italian folk (or anyone) else want to stop calling it Northern, well if it wasn't for the exposure of the Northern Soul scene, would they have come across all that great 60s soul music? Probably not. Are they going to differentiate between genuine 60s soul and white, pop stuff? Probably not. Does anybody in the real world really care. Undoudtedly not.

I hasten to addfolks that this is not to say I condone bootlegging at all. Far from it.

[Ady Croasdell]

Ref the bootlegging issue - on the one hand Ady, I agree with you, a shameful cashing in on the talent and work of others. However, the flip side is that without the bootlegging (particularly in the 70s) would many, if any of these recordings have had the coverage they have gained over the years? Probably not.

On the main theme of whether the Italian folk (or anyone) else want to stop calling it Northern, well if it wasn't for the exposure of the Northern Soul scene, would they have come across all that great 60s soul music? Probably not. Are they going to differentiate between genuine 60s soul and white, pop stuff? Probably not. Does anybody in the real world really care. Undoudtedly not.

I bought them, I even bought the very first one, I had no idea what a bootleg was. It probably got the sounds to the punters much quicker but you could have a theoretical argument that the scene would have lasted stronger longer as they were booting stuff before it had gone big in the end.

No excuses since the 80s though when people worked out how to do it legit.

[Rich B]

It seems to be a sad fact of human nature, that people just can't live and let live. I don't think, really, for most of us (certainly isn't to me) it is an issue of whether Italians, mods or whoever else wish to assert thier own identity, on thier own 'scene'. However it is a shame that they can't just get on and do it without the negativity.

That also applies to northern fans who don't like modern soul, and fans of modern soul who don't like northern. Who cares what other peole think anyway?

Regards,

RB

[Guest Bearsy]

It is prevelant on the scooter scene where a wide variety of music is played at all the events to suit the people who attend...but dont forget most rallies, events, do's have a dedicated Soul room where vinyl is played ( I wont use the term "Northern" because a wide variety of across the board Soul is the prefered option) So lets not go for the "Scooterboy" thing as a whole as the offenders.....as in life its the minority and not the Majority.

on most scotter rallies now there will be a seperate "Northern Soul" room as there is a lot of scooterists that want this music all night, on a rally where there is only 1 room you will get a mix up of all the scooter sounds from Ska, mod, indie to name a few without pigeon holing too much but even so the music that gets most heard will still be Northern Soul, not every rally will be like this but most, some serious soulies attend Scooter Rallies but mostly made up off scoooterists that like what they know and they know how to enjoy themselves even if not quite up on the "ettiquette" of the soul scene, you do obvioussly have ppes at rallies that cant stomach Northern Soul but then not all soulies like ska, indie mod etc so striking the right balance is always a tochy one and yep there are t-shirts going around but mainly done in humour imho

[Simsy]

there also a FB group called this

No there isn't.

[Guest lambrettanik]

i too am a regular ralliest on the scooter scene,and ive seen this patch,tshirt and sticker.i think its a bit of a wind up nothing more and maybe a bit of a slight protest at the lack of diversity of northern soul played on the scooter scene with 1 or 2 exceptions (dj's i mean) it shouldnt be taken too heart as its not a popular sellar mainly worn by alternative types-oi skins,punks,goths,physco billies etc(add or delete as seen fit) but again a minority who just want to be ""alternative" and contraversial there is another anti northern patch which states"northern soul-dance like your dad" quiet funny as my dad couldnt keep up with carl or keb! as for the italian mods refusal to aknowledge the word "northern soul" pherhaps this because they dont get the "northern thing" in the first place ie ive tried explaining to work colleges the difference between otis redding and chuck jackson why one is perceived as 60soul artist and the other northern-theyre bemused to say the least

[Guest soulmaguk]

you mean this one.

 

[Amsterdam Russ]

...ive tried explaining to work colleges the difference between otis redding and chuck jackson why one is perceived as 60soul artist and the other northern-theyre bemused to say the least...

Bemused? Let's see. One of them was a black American artist who had chart success in the soul genre during the 60s whilst the other is...

No wonder people are bemused. Out of interest, how did you try to explain it to your work colleagues?

[Amsterdam Russ]

No there isn't.

You're right, there isn't one. There are two!

[KevH]

Boba just to put you on the right track here, in our culture the term "wank" has 2 meanings

1) the act of masturbation (for males)

2) an adjective meaning poor (in the sense of quality) ie shit, crap, useless etc

If you are described as a "wanker" ( also tosser) it is more to do with meaning 2 than meaning 1

Hope that clarifies

Also known as a "J. Arthur" (Rank),5 knuckle shuffle,hand shandy. Although "Northern Soul ,its 5 knuckle shuffle" doesn't quite work.

[Paul Shirley]

Funny this should crop up. Had some friends round at the weekend and we were have a good old time of it, as you do, swapping stories about or respective 'good old days'.

One of our friends (an Italian with connections to the Italian and European Mod scene) was telling us that there is a growing desire among sections of the Italian Mod scene (and possibly among other European contingents) to move away from the label, cult and associated paraphernalia of Northern Soul.

Soul music from the 60s in particular should be labelled as such, they believe, and not given the name tag of a regional and obscure youth cult from 70s Great Britain. 60s Soul should have it's own identity and be appreciated and understood in the context of 1960s America, not the perspective of the UK.

Fans of the music should be saying - "that's a great 60s soul 45" - and not - "that's a great Northern Soul 45". After all, there is no such music as Northern Soul, only a cult that sprang up through an appreciation of 60s soul music.

Possibly there is a stronger trend to disassociate from Northern Soul and all its historical trappings than may be realised.

promised myself i would keep off these threads so ive deleted my bit

Edited August 11, 2011 by steptoe

[Wiggyflat]

Seen a few of these but mostly worn by "the darkside".People who are into heavy metal and rave who are hanging on to the scooter scene and ride modern mopeds.As for Italian mods.....well come on they are only jealous.They were listening to Baccara in the seventies.Scooters and northern will always go hand in hand.

[Guest rasfoz]

It is prevelant on the scooter scene where a wide variety of music is played at all the events to suit the people who attend...but dont forget most rallies, events, do's have a dedicated Soul room where vinyl is played ( I wont use the term "Northern" because a wide variety of across the board Soul is the prefered option) So lets not go for the "Scooterboy" thing as a whole as the offenders.....as in life its the minority and not the Majority.

on most scotter rallies now there will be a seperate "Northern Soul" room as there is a lot of scooterists that want this music all night, on a rally where there is only 1 room you will get a mix up of all the scooter sounds from Ska, mod, indie to name a few without pigeon holing too much but even so the music that gets most heard will still be Northern Soul, not every rally will be like this but most, some serious soulies attend Scooter Rallies but mostly made up off scoooterists that like what they know and they know how to enjoy themselves even if not quite up on the "ettiquette" of the soul scene, you do obvioussly have ppes at rallies that cant stomach Northern Soul but then not all soulies like ska, indie mod etc so striking the right balance is always a tochy one and yep there are t-shirts going around but mainly done in humour imho

Didnt mean that this was being done in a negative way as it is quite funny its wa*k , dance like your dad, i cant comment as i havent been on a rally since the 90s even though i still have the lambretta , but as you have said jokeingly on a whole but there are one or two i know who are serious but hey thats life & who cares

[Geeselad]

you mean this one.

Similar, this one was like a negative of that design, with black on white.

[Geeselad]

the more I think about this the more annoyed i get, what reception would I get if I wore a scooterist are W***ers T shirt. At a nighter?

Northern soul has added identity to that scene, I just dont get knocking something that many feel passionate about. Regaurdless of whatever term you want to use to describe it the scene.

Edited August 12, 2011 by geeselad

[dob]

seen many t-shirts with i'm not a f*****g mod printed on them,mostly worn by fat tramps at scooter rallies, and they don't need to wear such a t-shirt as you can tell they're not mods by the state of them!

[Geeselad]

seen many t-shirts with i'm not a f*****g mod printed on them,mostly worn by fat tramps at scooter rallies, and they don't need to wear such a t-shirt as you can tell they're not mods by the state of them!

PMSL, some deap seated insecurity, if I felt like that I'd buy a hog, and join the outlaws.

[Geeselad]

Anyone got a "latin-its w**k" badge/t-shirt?

no but I got some spare blinkered W***ker badges if you'd like one.

[Guest Bearsy]

PMSL, some deap seated insecurity, if I felt like that I'd buy a hog, and join the outlaws.

[Guest Matt Male]

I'll be worried when scooter boys start wearing T-shirts with 'The Snake Is W**k' on it.

[Guest ScooterNik]

From the top:

 

Originated on the scooterboy-world forum. It was - as commented on above - a protest at the amount of northern played at scooter rallies an events. The definition of Northern on the scooter scene is somewhat different to the one we know on here. Take a look at the worst parts of the 500 top northern list and expect to get them played at some point at most nights.

It was designed by a gentleman who refers to himself as 'Juan Kerr' (real name Dave Daniels) and I'm pretty sure the one you've found there is the original version - Elaine is his wife...

"I'm not a fucking mod" is a comment at the large swathes of the population who still equate mod and scooter rider. I'm most certainly not a mod, 90% of people on rallies aren't mods, and neither are they tramps. To me, a mod is a self obsessed prick who can't se that people laugh at him, not with him. Scooterboys tend to be pretty much the opposite. I laugh at myself all the time, it saves others the hassle....

I don't want a harley, I love scooters too much. Difference is that I actually ride mine places, hence the club shirt I wear with pride - "Of course I fucking rode here". Never van it, always ride it.

The common thread through all these shirts though is the use of profanities. They serve one purpose, and one purpose only - to get a reaction.

I'd say Dave's sticker design has got that, but I'd not worry about it.

[sir cumference]

no but I got some spare blinkered W***ker badges if you'd like one.

I don`t like latin-it belongs somewhere else,on its own scene,not living off the back of northern.If you don`t like ithat-I don`t give a fcuk!

[KevH]

On 8/12/2011 at 19:43, ScooterNik said:

From the top:

 

Originated on the scooterboy-world forum. It was - as commented on above - a protest at the amount of northern played at scooter rallies an events. The definition of Northern on the scooter scene is somewhat different to the one we know on here. Take a look at the worst parts of the 500 top northern list and expect to get them played at some point at most nights.

It was designed by a gentleman who refers to himself as 'Juan Kerr' (real name Dave Daniels) and I'm pretty sure the one you've found there is the original version - Elaine is his wife...

"I'm not a fucking mod" is a comment at the large swathes of the population who still equate mod and scooter rider. I'm most certainly not a mod, 90% of people on rallies aren't mods, and neither are they tramps. To me, a mod is a self obsessed prick who can't se that people laugh at him, not with him. Scooterboys tend to be pretty much the opposite. I laugh at myself all the time, it saves others the hassle....

I don't want a harley, I love scooters too much. Difference is that I actually ride mine places, hence the club shirt I wear with pride - "Of course I fucking rode here". Never van it, always ride it.

The common thread through all these shirts though is the use of profanities. They serve one purpose, and one purpose only - to get a reaction.

I'd say Dave's sticker design has got that, but I'd not worry about it.

So, the guy ,or his missus,who designed these works of art...are they "self obsessed pricks",scooter boys/girls or tramps?

[Geeselad]

sorry guys I'd love to carry this on, as my anti scooterist tendancies grow! but I'm off on hols, in the Alfa, now thats real Italian style for you, mind you a gaggia got mor e class than...... no I wont go there, LOL.

[Guest lambrettanik]

You're right, there isn't one. There are two!

what i ment was that-i was asked during a debate why isnt otis considered to be "northern"? my reply was "some of his lesser known commercially unsuccessful tracks might be,but his hits would clear a dance floor in a N.S club where as an artist such as chuck jackson(who? was the general question) struggled for years to attain the success that Mr redding had, and his much music contains the elements which coveys this to us in the know,basically "northern soul" is failed attempts at success with a 4 beats to the bar similar to tamala motown"!now do you understand why they were bemused?

[Guest Mart B]

Alot of wa33kers on the Mod scene reckon they know all all about THE Northern scene "not a chance"......

[Guest lambrettanik]

spot the grammar mistake-i have had only 4 hours sleep

[Guest Mart B]

THATS YOUR PROBLEM LAMBRINI

[Guest lambrettanik]

sorry guys I'd love to carry this on, as my anti scooterist tendancies grow! but I'm off on hols, in the Alfa, now thats real Italian style for you, mind you a gaggia got mor e class than...... no I wont go there, LOL.

shouldnt let a couple of individuals taint your image of the scooter scene ,their just trying to make money out of shock. alot of scooterist attended (and I am refering to scooterist not mods there is a difference)allnighters,and on the whole the ones who aint into northern are more than tolerant of it and are aware that the scene originates out of 60s mods,many of my mates have very diverse tastes in music and do have northern cds and vinyl amongst their own collections as well as ska,rockabilly,glam rock,two tone, mod revival,punk,new wave,indie,rock,folk,rap,dance etc. if you never been on a rally?give it a go its basically a big good natured party which is musically diverse

[Guest lambrettanik]

THATS YOUR PROBLEM LAMBRINI

very good-i wish-southern comfort if your buyin!?

[Guest julesp1905]

I think the problem is the term "Northern Soul" can conjure up allsorts of images, some good, some not so good.

Musically, records can be miles apart, two records classed as northern, Footsie and Joi Cardwell - Let it go, are they similar sounding, certainly not.

Think you'd struggle to find a single person to hold their hands up and say they liked both.

Then you have all the tat marketed these days, Mugs, T-shirts, clocks etc, and lets be honest the fashion of the seventies was hardly the best, so it should come as no suprise that European Mods would want to distance themselves, yes they like 60's soul, but not everything else that goes with the "Northern" Tag, You can't blame them for that as it has nothing to do with their interests

The most important thing is that people still enjoy the music and have dances to go to.

Edited August 13, 2011 by julesp1905

[NEILO]

So, the guy ,or his missus,who designed these works of art...are they "self obsessed pricks",scooter boys/girls or tramps?

I'd say they are pricks!